PoA Chapter Eight
Mar. 19th, 2010 12:29 pm![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
sistermagpie.livejournal.com posting in ![[community profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/community.png){kind=small}
deathtocapslockIn no time DADA is everyone’s favorite class, and only Draco and his gang of Slytherins has anything to say about Lupin—because Draco seriously has to work the villain role in this book. He says Lupin’s robes are worn. Ooh. Burn.
A moment here to appreciate all the work Draco does in these books whenever Voldemort’s not stepping up, which is often.
Also the stuff about his clothes is supposed to be a clue he’s a werewolf. He can’t work and buy new things. I always liked the idea that he was tearing out of them like the hulk and had to keep patching them as well.
Ha. This makes me think of some fanart someone did of HBP where Lupin basically had progressed from shabby to tattered to just a head on top of a scribble.
No wonder we never have any clear idea of what the Dark Arts actually are since creatures like Red Caps apparently count. Just because they hang around where there had been bloodshed. Werewolves and vampires I can kind of understand since presumably the magical mechanism that turns wizards into those things counts, but this is like making crocodiles dark arts.
Basically, I think we’re maybe just talking about Goth-ish stuff here. Like if I were a wizard I’d probably be obsessed with the Dark Arts because I love horror movies and death imagery.
I wonder if the book from Draco’s pov would say that by now nobody had anything bad to say about Professor Snape besides Harry Potter and his gang of Gryffindors.
No one has to wonder why Snape’s in a bad mood. Coming up with inaccurate reasons why Snape is doing anything is kind of a hobby in this place.
I do have to give Snape some credit here. Given his history with Lupin, the boggart incident really does make it seem like Lupin’s continuing the old Marauders war. It’s one of the best things in this book, imo, the way I can really understand how Snape thinks he’s being passive aggressively attacked by Lupin throughout.
Stop me from getting really psychological and saying he bullies Neville worse than ever because Lupin’s class reminds him of his own humiliations and Neville reminds him of his weakling self.
Harry just can’t like Professor Trelawney, which is why it’s okay for Umbridge to get rid of her but not Hagrid.
Nobody likes CoMC, but that’s Malfoy’s fault because he made Hagrid lose his confidence. No teacher could be expected to deal with a distracted kid and a predictable classroom accident. Damn you, Malfoy, ruining the awesomest class in school!
Also it’s not the teacher’s job to make the subject interesting. If it’s not deadly, Hagrid’s hands are tied here.
The Seeker has the hardest job of all in Quidditch, btw. That’s the job Harry has, natch.
I’m shocked to remember Gryffindor actually lost the cup the first year, but then remember that Harry was unconscious at the time so it’s really a victory for Harry.
Oliver even makes a point of saying that ever since Harry joined the team he’s considered it in the bag.
Fred’s looking forward to the first Hogsmeade weekend since he’s out of stink pellets. He’s fifteen years old.
Hermione disapproves of copying. That’s why when she does the boy’s homework she starts fresh for each paper.
More animal hijinx with Crookshanks chasing after Scabbers.
Even more animal hijinx, Lavender’s rabbit Binky was killed by a fox. It’s all in the circle of life!
Hermione tries to point out the illogic of Lavender thinking Binky’s death was predicted by Trelawney. I cherish these moments with Hermione actually being logical.
The kids are just handing in their permission slips now? I’m surprised everybody hasn’t lost theirs.
Harry tries to claim that as Muggles, the Dursleys don’t understand forms. McGonagall has her own reasons for wanting Harry at school or that probably would have worked.
Dean—the Muggleborn—finally offers to forge the signature. Unfortunately Harry was already dumb enough to tell the teacher it wasn’t signed.
As if the Dursleys’ signatures would have even been considered valid if they wanted to keep Harry in school. Muggles don’t understand danger.
Percy gives the worst piece of advice by saying that Harry’s not missing much by not seeing a joke shop, a sweet shop and an empty house. Don’t ask me why it’s the least helpful advice. Sounds pretty good to me.
The common room is filled with younger kids and older students who have visited Hogsmeade so much the novelty has worn off. Oh, surely not. There’s a joke shop! When one tires of Hogsmeade one is tired of life!
Colin calls Harry over, but he can’t bear being stared at avidly by him. Just point the out now because we know Colin will die for him. War: What is it good for?
Lupin hands Harry a chipped mug of tea. Even his mugs are tattered. Or maybe the house elves intentionally chip his mugs because they think he’s chosen a theme on purpose.
Seeing Lupin brings up all of Harry’s anxieties about being thought a coward again. I wonder if Ravenclaws are this sensitive about people thinking they’re dumb?
It turns out Harry’s fear of scaly monsters swishing around in cloaks reveals yet another way that Harry is kind of naturally more heroic than anyone else. Because the fear of ghoulish corpses sliding around in capes and causing depression is being afraid of fear.
Snape arrives for one of the better scenes in the series imo. Even if in the end Snape really does turn out to be ridiculously stuck in the past, I can completely see this scene from his pov. He probably does think Lupin’s telling Harry all sorts of humiliating things about Snape and Lily.
I also love Lupin in this scene because he’s so passive-aggressive about his Potion, not drinking it as soon as he’s gotten it and being all casual. I think beyond just wanting to yank Snape’s chain, the guy’s conflicted about the stuff. It’s not completely out of his control when he eventually forgets to take it.
God, I miss the Lupin that was all passive-aggression and repressed hostility under a competent, kindly façade. Why did he have to be replaced by a twit peer pressured into marriage who had to get schooled by a kid?
Harry blurts out that Snape’s very interested in the Dark Arts. What that means or why Harry thinks he knows this fact is a mystery. Isn’t Lupin interested in the Dark Arts if that’s his subject? Isn’t it everyone’s favorite subject this year?
Heh. I love that Harry’s actually suggesting that Snape is poisoning Lupin to get the DADA job. This is why kid mysteries are fun.
Ron and Hermione look like they had the time of their lives in Hogsmeade. Seriously, it doesn’t sound all that great. Very nice, but not Shangri-La. A bit like spending the day in Bath. They have an awesome fudge shop that gives out samples too.
Even Hermione believes Snape was trying to poison Lupin. So much for the brilliant Hermione of earlier in the chapter.
It would have been a bit cooler if the Fat Lady was all torn up and bleeding from the attacked picture. Oh well. That’s probably my Dark Arts obsession talking.
It is a pretty good end to the chapter, though, with Peeves telling us Sirius slashed the portrait and has a bad temper.
Wow, I miss the Sirius of this book too. It’s definitely PoA!Sirius and PoA!Lupin who are shacked up in the afterlife.
Things that happen twice:
Crookshanks/Buckbeak are connected but a bit unevenly. Within the story it’s Crookshanks’s instinct that’s more intelligent than it seems, because he’s going after Scabbers because he can tell he’s a villain, while Buckbeak just attacked someone who insulted him. Taking the Doylist approach, though, Buckbeak’s attacking people for verbal insults is far more indicative of human intelligence.
Lavender also has a pet who’s also killed and it makes her sad. Though Hermione only responds with empathy to Hagrid’s pet and not Ron’s or Lavender’s. With those two she’s distracted by a point she wants to prove.
Lupin will NOT drink his Potion right away and is all casual about it while Snape not only brings it to him but practically can’t stop himself from pouring it down his throat.
Snape walks into a room, finds Harry and Lupin in conference, and gets the wrong idea. I think he might do that again later.
It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!
Lupin says Voldemort’s name!
The name thing is one of those things that’s given a lot of weight but doesn’t really mean anything. (Another one is also highlighted in this chapter.) The only payoff is that Voldemort neatly turns it into a way to track them so…yay?
Status: Uh, fired back on the person doing it?
Snape would do anything to get that DADA job. Anything!
Would he? Was any of that even true? Or was it just a really elaborate reason for Dumbledore to give Snape the job in HBP, even though he could have done it anyway? Or I guess we’re really supposed to buy Dumbledore’s idea, which I think JKR might have agreed with in an interview?—about Snape falling prey to his old addictions to them again if he was teaching it? Only what addiction would that be, since Snape seems to have the exact same interest in the Dark Arts as Harry? And the exact same interest before and after he’s the DADA teacher? And we never see what an actual Dark Arts interest is anyway?
Status: WTF?
Informed Attributes
Harry’s fear of Dementors is exceptional.
Informed Attributes
Hogsmeade is totally what a teenager would imagine as the best place to spend a day.
Spring-Loaded Cat
Crookshanks strikes again!
Whooshing Powder
I’m going to gives this one to whooshing powder’s even better cousin, smoking goblet of potion. If Snape lived he could have gotten a job cooking for the Munsters.
Jabootu Score: 4
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 04:56 pm (UTC)AMEN. PoA Lupin was INTERESTING. The harmless twit transformation was just...so depressing. Not to mention that the interaction between Lupin 1.0 and Snape actually gave the series a (fleeting, all too fleeting) sense of depth and psychological realism?
The DADA thing was, I think, probably the result of several factors. Snape keeps asking for it so that when Voldie does return, he can point back and say "see? I tried my best to do what you told me." And Dumbles keeps putting him off because (as they both know) the position is cursed. Plus it adds to Snape's "I'm Such a Bad-ass Gothy Death Eater, Don't Mess With Me, I'm Serious" reputation. Which you know he gets a huge kick out of cultivating. Though I don't doubt he has a very real interest in the dark arts.
"Lupin hands Harry a chipped mug of tea. Even his mugs are tattered. Or maybe the house elves intentionally chip his mugs because they think he’s chosen a theme on purpose."
Rofl!
Beautifully done, as usual. :)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 05:34 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 06:24 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 05:23 pm (UTC)Even Hermione believes Snape was trying to poison Lupin. So much for the brilliant Hermione of earlier in the chapter.
Wouldn't it have been great if the Trio had *investigated* that? It would have been a more engaging side-plot than them doing legal research to save Hagrid's pet.
Actually, are there any fanfics where they do investigate that potion?
no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 05:30 pm (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 06:47 pm (UTC)How interesting that at this point, Percy finds jokes, candy, and (rumored) haunted houses at least mildly interesting. I guess we can point to that as evidence that Percy doesn't object to jokes in general, just especially dangerous ones, or job-sabotaging ones perpetrated on him by his brothers.
I bet the Ravenclaws have one kid who is always failing to solve the riddles and has to wait for other people to open the door.
You know, reading this I suddenly wondered why I haven't seen anyone propose the theory that, in addition to being passive-aggressive, Lupin is also one of those people who will insist that they're so unworthy, awful, I should run away and not endanger you anymore, etc. so people will rush in and reassure him that no, he's the best! Marry me! I'm not sure I buy it - I think that after spending time with Fenrir and co. in HBP he got a big boost on his depression and self-loathing scales, and trying to help Harry win the war to make the world safe for his kid instead of hiding actually sounds like a logical and potentially caring response to me - but maybe you could make a case for it. Anyone want to try?
no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 11:31 pm (UTC)That would probably be me, were I a Ravenclaw. Actually, no - I would be the one refusing to answer any stupid riddles because dang it, the Hat already sorted me into Ravenclaw, and I shouldn't have to be constantly proving that I deserve it.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 02:14 am (UTC)Part 1
Date: 2010-03-19 07:05 pm (UTC)Dark creatures aren't the same as Dark Arts. In yet another discussion of Potterverse Dark Arts Lynn proposed that a creature is Dark if it specifically targets humans. As for red caps - they aren't just attracted to sites of bloodshed, they attempt to bludgeon people who travel to those places to death.
It’s one of the best things in this book, imo, the way I can really understand how Snape thinks he’s being passive aggressively attacked by Lupin throughout.
Well, in some places, such as this very chapter, it seems obvious to me this is exactly what Remus is doing. In the previous chapter the aggression towards Severus may have been an unfortunate side effect. Maybe.
Stop me from getting really psychological and saying he bullies Neville worse than ever because Lupin’s class reminds him of his own humiliations and Neville reminds him of his weakling self.
I wonder what Harry considers bullying Neville worse than ever. I doubt Severus threatened Trevor again. So what was it? Looming? Harsh looks? Name calling? Daily public quizzing? All we have about the interactions between those two are this sentence here, then in GOF Neville serves detention after melting his 6th cauldron (is that 6th in total or what? because it happens within 3 days of the beginning of that year), in OOTP in their first lesson Severus' gaze lingers on Neville when he says that he expects them all to scrape an 'Acceptable' on their OWLs or suffer his displeasure. And when he tells Crabbe that him strangling Neville would look bad on Crabbe's resume and cause Severus too much paperwork. So I want to know *what* Severus did to Neville. And it's a total shame we don't see them interacting in DADA in HBP.
As for Severus - if I think of my own scary (but not at all Severus-like) teacher, I think the idea I feared him that much insulted him. I have to wonder if Severus wasn't insulted as well.
Hermione disapproves of copying. Still.
Heh! It is canon that in third year the Gryffindors had Transfiguration alone. "As you're all in my House..."
Colin calls Harry over, but he can’t bear being stared at avidly by him. Just point the out now because we know Colin will die for him. War: What is it good for?
Colin spent early November to late May of the previous year (his first) Petrified. He idolized Harry enough in the beginning, and now probably feels he owes Harry for killing the monster.
Seeing Lupin brings up all of Harry’s anxieties about being thought a coward again. I wonder if Ravenclaws are this sensitive about people thinking they’re dumb?
Are Hufflepuffs nervous about being considered unfair or disloyal? About the boundary between loyalty and unjustified favoritism? Are Slytherins concerned about being too straightforward? Or about long vs short term goals?
Re: Part 1
Date: 2010-03-19 08:56 pm (UTC)Re: Part 1
From:Re: Part 1
Date: 2010-03-19 10:48 pm (UTC)*** Knowing Snape, I'd say snarky comments. Enough to make a nervous student even more nervous. I would have melted cauldrons too, if I had someone being ironic when I tried to do my best, especially in my early teens.
Re: Part 1
From:Re: Part 1
From:Re: Part 1
Date: 2010-03-20 02:17 am (UTC)Re: Part 1
From:Re: Part 1
From:Part 2
Date: 2010-03-19 07:06 pm (UTC)No, he is thinking how Remus is plotting on serving Harry to Remus' murderous partner, Sirius (see Severus' conversation with Dumbledore in the next chapter). And in this scene Severus is very justifiably stuck in the past. He is facing the monster that nearly killed him, and trying to keep said monster under control, without much cooperation from the monster. (And if Harry can see that Severus is nervous Remus must notice it too. And his reaction isn't to attempt to calm the anxiety but to heighten it.)
It’s not completely out of his control when he eventually forgets to take it.
Of course it isn't. He knew where it was. He knew he was planning to sit watching the map. Why not go get it before hand?
Harry blurts out that Snape’s very interested in the Dark Arts. What that means or why Harry thinks he knows this fact is a mystery. Isn’t Lupin interested in the Dark Arts if that’s his subject? Isn’t it everyone’s favorite subject this year?
At this point Harry is parroting Percy from PS.
Did Ron take Scabbers in his pocket to Hogsmeade or did he leave him at Crookshanks' mercy in the castle?
Re: Part 2
Date: 2010-03-19 11:43 pm (UTC)Yes! Yes! I really can't blame Snape for reminding Lupin that oh, I brought you this potion, by the way, that potion that I brought you, maybe you should drink it. He's clearly thinking of what could happen if Lupin neglects or forgets to take it... probably not just to him, even, but to the castle full of students.
I can't remember if the book plays out the same way, but the last time I saw the PoA movie I was really impressed with how Snape stands in front of the trio after Lupin's transformation, protecting them. Considering how traumatic seeing werewolf!Lupin the first time must have been for him, how brave is that to protect the snotty kids who hate him from the same creature who could have killed him all those years ago? (I wonder if werewolf!Lupin could be his boggart, actually? I guess Voldemort could be too, or Lily's dead body, but I think Lupin's a better choice since that fear is so much older, and probably very strong.)
Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
Date: 2010-03-20 02:25 am (UTC)D'oh! I can't believe I forgot about Snape thinking Remus would be trying to kill Harry. You're right, he would be totally nervous about Remus luring Harry outside. I admit, though, I can totally emphathize with Remus here too with his refusing to calm Snape's anxiety. Remus has just as much reason to be back in the past here to, to that extent. Snape wanted him outed as a werewolf in school and he wants him outed now. Snape was almost killed by the monster Remus becomes against his will because he was trying to do that. So if Remus is passive-aggressively refusing to drink the Potion in front of Snape, I can understand why he'd do it.
Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Timing of the Werewolf essay assignment
From:Re: Timing of the Werewolf essay assignment
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:Re: Part 2
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-19 11:16 pm (UTC)Because compassion for someone who’s obviously upset about a dead pet should be dismissed in as few words as possible – far more important to prove you’re right. A character with just a small helping of *genuine* logic, instead of merely a determination to be *seen* as having superior skills of logic, would surely understand that a person in such an emotional state is not about to ‘learn any lessons’ just at that moment. Also, I thought the ‘If they think/act differently, they’re wrong’ attitude extended only to the less popular teachers and other houses early in the series. Obviously I remembered wrongly.
Hermione wasn’t being logical here, just cold, self-promoting and with a total inability to put herself in someone else's place - a real sign of a lack of compassion. This is the book where Hermione dropped from my top three most likeable characters – I wasn’t happy.
---“ God, I miss the Lupin that was all passive-aggression and repressed hostility under a competent, kindly façade. Why did he have to be replaced by a twit peer pressured into marriage who had to get schooled by a kid?”
Hear Hear! The series started with everyone having their own character and being more attractive because of it, even the less ‘nice’ characters. Than JKR started forcing behaviour to *make* some ‘better’, or *worse* rather than just letting them take their natural path as she did before. Bad enough, but she also made them act quite foolishly in order to fit into a final plot that really wasn’t good enough for her original idea/creations.
I don’t see Lupin as having changed, from PoA to DH, more as a completely different character. I genuinely don't understand the complete difference. He went through a lot, but his reactions just seemed too ridiculous. I can't hide my contempt for the characterization in this series. JKR could have got away with the ‘meh’ plot if she’d maintained early levels of characterization. Instead she really messed up something she did so well at first. Her biggest failure i.m.o.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 02:31 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 02:48 am (UTC)I remember reading someone's comment, way back when the second movie came out - before I knew there was such a thing as a HP fandom - that Voldemort was the most non-threatening, or absent, villain EVER. What, he makes an appearance at the very end of book 1, ditto book 2, doesn't appear in this one at all, is reincarnated at the very end of book 4 ... and then spends a year in hiding in book 5 ... doesn't appear at all in book 6, another year in hiding ... and then in the last one flits around on a chase in the background for the latest deux ex machina before discarding the advice of his own enemy and repeating his boomerang AK mistake of 17 years earlier.
Worst. Villain. EVER!
Hermione disapproves of copying. That’s why when she does the boy’s homework she starts fresh for each paper.
Sore point. I recall the 'weary' way in which she did Won Won's homework in HBP. Poor girl. Why in blazes did she fixate on Weasley, again? Oh, to leave the road clear for Ginny, right. :-(
Hermione tries to point out the illogic of Lavender thinking Binky’s death was predicted by Trelawney. I cherish these moments with Hermione actually being logical.
Ditto. A pity she was lobotomised in book 6. Even in DH she was an idiot when the plot demanded it. :-(
There’s a joke shop!
Sometimes I wonder about how the Joke industry made the Weasley twins so RICH ... and in only two years. Even Rowling took a decade for the mega-money to start pouring in, I think.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 04:20 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 03:46 am (UTC)You'd think that, after thirty or so years he would just get naked on the full-moon nights, especially with the whole Hulk-tearing-out-of-clothes thing. He expected it to happen while the poor Hulk just appeared whenever Banner got angry.
Like if I were a wizard I’d probably be obsessed with the Dark Arts because I love horror movies and death imagery.
Same. Only I'm more into the cheesy, B-rated, almost ridiculous horror movies. My personal werewolves would be Keystone Kops.
I wonder if the book from Draco’s pov would say that by now nobody had anything bad to say about Professor Snape besides Harry Potter and his gang of Gryffindors.
Yup, probably. Because they're the only ones we see having trouble with him. You'd think that even Harry would note other people who agree with him while I'm not sure he would acknowledge some peripheral red-shirt with a different viewpoint.
It’s one of the best things in this book, imo, the way I can really understand how Snape thinks he’s being passive aggressively attacked by Lupin throughout.
And as mentioned, Lupin is also probably flashing back to the past. But on that point, Snape's being cooperative - Lupin even says in HBP that Snape made his potion perfectly. It's Lupin who is playing dangerously by not immediately drinking his potion. Sure, Hermione finally figures out Snape's oblique clue from the DADA class but as the "smartest witch in her class" she's the only one who did, and it took her until Lupin was about ready to transform for it to click, IIRC.
Harry just can’t like Professor Trelawney, which is why it’s okay for Umbridge to get rid of her but not Hagrid.
Because the whole world really does revolve around Harry Potter.
Hermione disapproves of copying. That’s why when she does the boy’s homework she starts fresh for each paper.
One must have standards.
Or maybe the house elves intentionally chip his mugs because they think he’s chosen a theme on purpose.
Or they think they can foist the dregs off on Lupin because he's such a sad-sack that he'll be grateful for any crumbs.
Because the fear of ghoulish corpses sliding around in capes and causing depression is being afraid of fear.
Everyone knows the only thing we have to fear is fear itself.
Heh. I love that Harry’s actually suggesting that Snape is poisoning Lupin to get the DADA job. This is why kid mysteries are fun.
Yes, and he would have gotten away with it too, if it weren't for those pesky kids!
no subject
Date: 2010-03-20 04:23 am (UTC)It strikes me now that it's really weird that he's so shabby in HBP. The good explanation would be that he was dressing that way on purpose to look like he had more reason to hate society. But Dumbledore should have been paying him a lot for his spying services!
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 09:14 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-21 09:28 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 12:36 am (UTC)(no subject)
From:no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 08:29 am (UTC)In my opinion Harry would do better worrying about that other thing. If he started to work on it early, who knows, maybe he'd get somewhere.
"It turns out Harry’s fear of scaly monsters swishing around in cloaks reveals yet another way that Harry is kind of naturally more heroic than anyone else."
I could never get why being afraid of fear is so smart and awesome. It's a square of fear. If someone is so afraid to be afraid, he ends up as poseur or an idiot. Oh. Wait. Nevermind.
"Status: WTF?"
LOL, that's the status of many, many things in this verse, isn't it?
no subject
Date: 2010-03-22 02:03 pm (UTC)But still, yes, the fact that it not only gets translated into "you only fear fear itself" and that this is a good thing is a big sign that COURAGE is the most important thing to have in the series, if that wasn't already obvious.
(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From:(no subject)
From: