PoA Chapter Twelve

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Harry knows Hermione means well, but he’s still angry at her because he only had the Firebolt for a few minutes and now he doesn’t know if he’ll ever see it again. So Harry’s smart enough to know Hermione meant well, but too dumb to figure out that he will see his broom again, unless it’s got deadly curses on it, in which case he shouldn’t want to see it. It's a very specific level of smart.

Oh, he’s worried that it won’t be in a good state after anti-jinx tests. Why would that should hurt it at all?

Besides, if it was hurt by the tests it’s not like people wouldn’t buy him a new one. Hell, the Firebolt people would probably give him a replacement gladly.

Ron's mad at Hermione too, because this is one of those times when he's living vicariously through Harry rather than being insanely jealous of him.

Wood comes back, worried about Harry being knocked out by Dementors again. Why don’t they just make sure that Dementors will be kept off the field of play like they were supposed to be anyway? Or resolve to call a time out if that happens?

Think back at all the times we’re supposed to be seeing Slytherin cheating in this game. Like Flint almost knocking Harry off his broom (without the aid of an iron ball) and Malfoy grabbing on to Harry’s broom twigs. That’s cheating, but an army of Dementors rushing the field and knocking out the Seeker is allowed for in the rules?

Wood wants the broom back because having a Firebolt on the team is actually a huge advantage. Gee, ya think?

People will continue to mention this fact in future, but somehow never resent Harry for it at all. The general attitude is usually "Well, I didn’t have a chance against you on that Firebolt, Harry, but I don’t mind since I know you’re so talented you could have beaten me without it!"

CoMC has an unusually good lesson because they get to collect firewood. No, really.

Hermione’s carrying around a heavy bag of books that she can barely keep closed. Of course she could shrink her books to be easy to carry, but then we thickos wouldn’t remember she’s taking too many classes for hours in the day. While also drawing attention to the fact that Lupin’s illness is a MYSTERY that she has solved.

Hermione would have been even more impatient with all the Malfoy-as-werewolf theories after HBP than I was.

Lupin’s found another boggart. The first one was sacrificed so only Gryffindors could learn about them. This one’s for Harry personally.

Lupin announces he’s going to teach Harry the Patronus, which is way beyond OWL level. Even though ordinary teenagers can do them with less effort than seems to go into making a basic Potion and they are constantly finding reasons to use it.

You know how a boggart morphs into the greatest fear of whoever it faces? The Patronus charms gains and loses difficulty depending on the needs of the plot.

Proving my point, Lupin stresses that many qualified wizards can’t do it. Even though we’ll see the whole DA manage it. If only those other wizards were taught by Harry!

For all that build up, the charm’s not that difficult. Harry has more trouble with Accio in the next book.

Actually, I think I just answered my own question there. It's never been that the charm's technically difficult, but it's difficult based on your personality. Many qualified Wizards can't do it--and practically no DEs can. Because evil people don't have happy memories. Umbridge throws people off, but I'll bet that's the real subtext here.

So the boggart actually acquires the powers of a Dementor? It’s weird that Harry learns about most of what happened with his parents from a boggart.

Perhaps in Book eight, the entire wizarding world could have been invaded by an army of boggart!Voldemorts who are far scarier than the real one.

Lupin puts the boggart back in its case, ignoring the silvery orb of the full moon it's become. Which shouldn’t be too difficult since it can't really look like a real moon indoors. Still, I like that little clue.

Funny that this is his greatest fear we're talking about yet he still manages to forget his Potion when it's hours from rising.

Luckily this is Harry Potter so he doesn’t think to ask his teacher wtf that silvery orb is no matter how many times he sees it. He’s not even curious.

I’ll give Harry points for managing to make a basic connection and ask a pertinent question though: if Lupin knew James, did he also know Sirius?

Harry realizes he half enjoys hearing the voices of his parents. Dumbledore would be pleased at Harry’s suicidal tendencies.

Hermione’s got a ton of work to do, some of which is on things like how Muggles lift heavy objects. I lose a sympathy for her if she’s studying for that class.

Ron’s totally figured out Hermione’s taking many classes at once, but politely refrains from saying "What, does she have a Time Turner?"

Harry doesn’t much care about Hermione bending time and space, as it doesn’t affect him personally so far.

I need a moment to laugh at the Quidditch schedule, which has months between games. The entire wizarding world follows a school calendar without thinking about it, because they’re all unconsciously still back in school. Every year in May American wizards probably get an urge to hold a big dance in a gym decorated with crepe paper.

Btw, Harry's talking to Hermione again since he got his broom back. To review, in order to make sure Harry wouldn't be violently killed, Hermione took his broom and gave it back to him in plenty of time for his next Quidditch match. In response Harry and Ron refused to speak to her for all that time.

What's unfortunate to me reading it now is that there's no sense, to me, that Harry and Ron were angry because this behavior struck them as typical. You know what I mean? Like, it really does seem to be about 2 dumb boys being short-sighted and childish about a broom, even though once the broom's returned they can see the wisdom in what she did. IRL for the two of them to be angry like this it would probably tie into some general frustration they had with her for this kind of behavior, which is pretty typical for her.

For instance, that's why the fight with Ron works in the next book up until its non-resolution. Ron isn't just angry that he thinks Harry left him out of his plan to get into the contest, it plugs into all sorts of things that bug Ron about Harry in general. One could say the same thing about Hermione and Ron at the end of the chapter, actually, though the book doesn't really dramatize that idea either.**

Harry definitely thinks some people—like people who betray Harry’s parents and get them killed—deserve a Dementor’s kiss. Lupin isn’t so sure. First clue Lupin’s got some serious character flaws.

Neville’s lost his passwords. This will come up later. Btw, he’s lost a week’s worth because Sir Cadogan gave them to him early. Which you’d think is more on Cadogan than Neville. He could have changed the ones he planned when they went missing.

Again someone points out that the best thing about Harry having a Firebolt is that it gives him an unbeatable advantage against the other team. Which is not unsporting at all.

Hermione is writing an essay on "Why Muggles need electricity." Note the way it’s even phrased to be condescending. Muggles "need" electricity, like they depend on it and couldn’t exist without it. Instead of Muggles discovering how to harness electricity after thousands of years of successful civilization without it and using it to create things beyond the imagination of a wizard.

I’m surprised it even needs an essay. Shouldn’t it just be multiple choice where every answer is d) Muggles need X because they don’t have magic?

We end with what looks like the murder of Scabbers by cat. Naturally the sexual tension between Ron and Hermione is just palpitating throughout! And by sexual tension I mean irritation.

So a little over halfway we’re still keeping up the main themes in the book: animal hijinx, animal's violent tendencies being considered murderous/innocent or the owner's fault/the victim's fault depending on who you are and courage courage courage.

Things that happen more than once:
Harry struggles with a spell that he won't be able to do until it's most dramatic.
First in depth discussion of a soul as a corporal thing that can be sucked, torn, divided, knit into sweaters etc.
Harry produces his Patronus.
Another glimpse of Lupin's boggart.
Another boggart, in fact.
Not the first or last time we'll hear the Potters die.
The first rift in the Trio since they became the Trio, with Ron and Harry vs. Hermione.
Another pet accused of a crime.
Another character framed for murdering Peter Pettigrew when they actually trying to bring him to justice/murder him for being evil.
The boys rely on Hermione to think practically about how to stay alive.
Peter's second alleged "death" that isn't really death.
Escaped prisoner Sirius threatened with kiss, escaped prisoner Barty kissed.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!

Dementor’s Kiss!
Status: Totally unfired. Nobody gets kissed at all in the whole dang series. ETA: D'oh! Barty Crouch.





Designated Hero
Harry forgives Hermione for caring about him, but only after he’s got his broom back.

Hero’s Death Battle Exemption
For Scabbers, the old, fat, worn-out rat.

Informed Attributes
Patronus charm is reeeealy advanced. You have to point your stick and think of something happy while you say the magic words. This is much more difficult than pointing your stick and thinking of something funny while you say the magic words.

Misdirected Answering
McGonagall isn’t the only one who thinks people around here have their priorities out of whack. Sirius is out there living in garbage cans and avoiding the biggest man hunt in Wizard history while we worry about whether Harry’s got the biggest advantage in Quidditch he can get.

Monster Death Trap Proviso
Nope, no traps to be laid for Sirius Black just because we know he’s tried once to get into the dormitory and presumably might do so again. That kind of evidence of his whereabouts will cause no change of plans whatsoever.

"Watermelon, watermelon, cantaloupe, cantaloupe"
Presumably there was much of this in the "Firebolt reveal" scene.

Jabootu Score: 6

**TL;DR meta on this point:

It's a funny thing about Ron, actually. He's the one member of the Trio who seems to have a deeper level--weird as that sounds. Unfortunately this leads to Ron just getting the same story over and over where he's jealous and inadequate and then apologetic and sheepish. But still, it's there that Ron's insecure and surrounded by super people of whom he's alternately admiring and envious. When he's jealous of Harry's fame or thinks Hermione looks down on him, it's tied to deeper things in his character that make those sore spots.

By contrast Harry and Hermione just don't get that imo. For instance, I was really annoyed with the parallel moments in DH where Ron wryly noted the "surprise" in Hermione's voice when he did well in a battle and Hermione gave that wry surprise back to him when he said she looked nice. Because I buy Ron's insecurity around Hermione. There are moments where she does clearly expect little of him.

Hermione's insecurity about her looks, otoh, doesn't really get played as a genuine insecurity that hooks into her character in a bigger way when it really should. Usually she's just being sassily annoyed at Ron for ogling some other girl noted as beautiful in the text. Even Snape's "no difference" line just doesn't play for me as a big blow outside of that moment, perhaps because she seems to adequately prove to herself via the Yule Ball that she can be hot when she wants to be (and we'll get other confirmations that she's hot elsewhere as well). Again, unlike Ron who has his Yule Ball moment in Quidditch and still remains insecure.

The trouble is that it's not really about looks any more than Ron's troubles are really about Quidditch. Hermione's one vulnerable moment imo is when she runs off crying in PS/SS after Ron says she's got no friends. I never see that insecurity again and I feel like I should. It should inform her character, imo, at least somewhat the way Ron's insecurities inform his, if not in the same way. Ron feels overlooked and less talented and will always feel that somewhat. Hermione starts out feeling lonely and unlikable and then she just stops imo. It's not that her behavior can't imply that insecurity. She continues to keep manically busy, she makes herself needed and useful, she still needs to be the best, and we're presumably supposed to believe that she worries that Ron doesn't like her as a girlfriend. But it doesn't come across the same way imo. There were and are a lot of people who never see Hermione even show any interest in Ron that way, so how much vulnerability could they see on that front?

Comments

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Wood comes back, worried about Harry being knocked out by Dementors again. Why don’t they just make sure that Dementors will be kept off the field of play like they were supposed to be anyway? Or resolve to call a time out if that happens?

Time outs are for wusses, or Slytherins.

While also drawing attention to the fact that Lupin’s illness is a MYSTERY that she has solved.

The page count for most of the books would be cut in half if Hermione simply shared what she knew or deduced with Harry. Therefore, reasons must be contrived for her not to share. In CoS, this was done by having her petrified for several weeks. In PoA, she was ostracized for most of the school year. In GoF and OotP, there were no solvable mysteries. And in HBP, the mystery she did tackle was weirdly difficult to research. Although it might have helped to check out that magical book in Dumbledore's office that writes down the name of every witch and wizard born in Britain.

Lupin announces he’s going to teach Harry the Patronus, which is way beyond OWL level.

Ugh. This is one of the most annoying things that JKR does in her series--and she does it all the time. Magic is hard, until you learn the spell and then it's easy. It's cool that Harry has to learn this really difficult spell that is "far beyond Ordinary Wizarding Levels," even though that opens up the whole can of worms about how people actually learn stuff after their OWLs. But two years later, Harry is teaching the spell even to such duffers as Neville.

Two years after that, the Patronus has devolved into a prettier type of Howler.

Harry doesn’t much care about Hermione bending time and space, as it doesn’t affect him personally so far.

With all due respect to Madderbrad, this is one of the reasons I (instinctively) knew that Harry/Hermione was a no go. Ron was always interested in what Hermione was up to, even if he was really mad at her. Harry barely remember she existed when she was out of sight.

Even as I write this, though, I realize that the same could be said about Ginny. If we were to go by Harry's interest level in people, then his One True Passion was Dumbledore--and even then not until after Dumbledore was dead.

Harry should totally wear a T-
shirt that reads: I LOVE DEAD PEOPLE.

Like, it really does seem to be about 2 dumb boys being short-sighted and childish about a broom, even though once the broom's returned they can see the wisdom in what she did.

What bugged me was that even if they did see the wisdom, they still kept punishing her for it. I ended up wanking that this experience was so traumatic for Hermione that it accounted for all her trembling and teariness every time she stood up to Harry in OotP or DH (although I don't think she had any problem with it in HBP).

ITA about Hermione. It's something that bugs me a lot--judging by the amount of arguments I get into about the "see no difference" moment. I mean, it doesn't excuse Snape at all that he wasn't hitting a real weak spot in Hermione's psychological defenses, but I always feel compelled to point out how it wasn't something that would wreck Hermione's self-esteem.

Maybe JKR was writing Hermione as being so sensitive about her looks that she threw up over-strong defense mechanisms and only appeared not to care? If so, it didn't really work for me. It's the same thing with the Mudblood comments. It's Ron and sometimes Harry who get upset when Draco calls her a Mudblood. Hermione is always telling them to ignore him.

I think what happens is that JKR writes herself into a corner. In order to demonstrate within the story that racism is powerful and hurtful, you need to see someone getting hurt by it. But the two people who ever get called Mudblood are spunky, strong women, who can't be seen as victims. So the racism ends up feeling irrelevant, even though it's the basis for the whole conflict between good and evil.

I'm kind of rambling. But it's such an annoying thing about Hermione! After the first year, she's only ever vulnerable when she's trying to break bad news to Harry. And that eventually comes off like she's afraid he'll go crazy and stab her.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I appreciate that keeping secrets is so central to Hermione's personality. She really will hold onto info until the last possible minute just because she loves to know more than everyone else imo. Then she always presents it with a, "Wait, you didn't know this?" air. That was good thinking on JKR's part, at least--it works better than Harry's total lack of curiosity about anything.

Though of course it also makes it seem like Hermione would know a lot of things about Harry as well.

The racism thing really is a problem. It's central to everything, but we see very little evidence of it until we get the whole "let's round up Muggleborns because it will seem like WWII" stuff in DH. Then there's the problem that the only racism that matters is anti-Muggleborn. There's no change for all the other different creatures.

Then there's the fact that if you're going to show the effects of racism against Muggleborns you're basically talking about an immigrant situation. Only Muggleborns are never seen as a separate group at all. I mean, they don't identify themselves as such and barely anyone else does. When Hermione first gets called a Mudblood she understandably doesn't even know the word, much less get hurt by it. Once she does know she just really doesn't seem to have any insecurity about it. It's such a small group of people in the society who really seem to notice. I mean, there's times where we see hints that this is really a wider prejudice, but without any sense of an institutionalized inequality or a real identity it doesn't seem that important.

I always think it's interesting, for instance, the way the Weasleys are known as this old Pureblood family, yet at the same time JKR wants them to be these basions of tolerance and acceptance. If that's the case...why are they still Pureblood? I mean, either they're Purebloods who are accept equal rights for Muggleborns but still expect their children to marry Purebloods, or they ought to be Halfbloods by now. The idea that they see everyone as equal but just happened to stay as Pure as the Blacks for thousands of years is hard to take.

[oryx_leucoryx]

We don't know what it takes to be a pureblood. If Harry is considered a half-blood because he has 2 Muggle grandparents and we know there are no intermediate designations between half-blood and pureblood then it is possible for the child of 2 half-bloods to be a pureblood, and for lineages to go in and out of pureblood status over not many generations. Which makes the blood system even more like an immigration situation - even children of immigrant communities who marry among themselves end up producing members of the native culture.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

even children of immigrant communities who marry among themselves end up producing members of the native culture.

*** Not everywhere. In Sweden, we talk about third- and fourth-generation immigrants...

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

The racism thing really is a problem. It's central to everything, but we see very little evidence of it until we get the whole "let's round up Muggleborns because it will seem like WWII" stuff in DH.

Yes, exactly.

BTW, you sound like you've been following the discussion we're having now in Snapedom, but if you haven't, you might enjoy looking through it. (grin)

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I was thinking that it might have helped to have Draco call Colin Creevey a Mudblood and show Colin's face falling or something like that. It would have helped make anti-Mugglebornism concrete.

Then I realized that there's the whole thing about Muggleborns being targeted in CoS, but that doesn't really make any impression. For one thing, we only hear about most of the petrifications. For another thing, they aren't really being hurt. They simply become invisible. Heh. The only reason Harry and Ron even bother visiting Hermione is to get out of being punished.

Then, by the end of the year, it's all fine and dandy again. After that, the only harm we have to any Mugglegborn is Draco occasionally insulting Hermione (who never cares). Even the Muggle-baiting in GoF is towards Muggles, and it doesn't really seem all that worse than Fred and George with the candy. (The worst Muggle-baiting at this point is Hagrid giving Dudley the pig tail.)

There were probably other places that JKR could have dropped in some anti-Muggleborn behavior to make it seem more prevalent. But, as it is, it comes off more like a quirk of the Malfoy/Black family than anything else--until DH, when suddenly the Muggleborn are being herded into prison cells.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

The thing in CoS, too, is that aren't the attacks pretty much random? They are all Muggleborns, but aren't they also the people who run into the thing? It's not like Ernie Macmillan sees the basilisk and it just doesn't get him. Is it supposed to be only come out when it smells a Muggleborn near? Because the fact that Colin survives because of his camera and Hermione because of her mirror makes it seem like both of them were going towards it--we know Hermione was.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

After that, the only harm we have to any Mugglegborn is Draco occasionally insulting Hermione (who never cares).

Yes, but not until GoF. In PoA, there are no references to anti-Muggleborn prejudice at all, that I've been able to find. There are some anti-Muggle comments, e.g. from Stan, but nothing about Muggleborns. Even Draco doesn't say anything.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

The idea that they (the Weasleys) see everyone as equal but just happened to stay as Pure as the Blacks for thousands of years is hard to take.
It's another case of have your cake and eat it,too, IMO. Reminds me of Jane Austen, where the heroines exhibit the fervent belief how wrong it is to marry for money but somehow are spared from having to choose themselves between love and wealth because they just happen to fall for the richest man available (and him for her, of course). So, presumably, the Weasley men would have married any dirty muggleborn in a heartbeat but just happened to find their true loves in pureblood witches... Funny thing is: the Malfoys as the epitome of pureblood marriages never come off as an arranged marriage but seem very well suited to each other.

Being fair to Austen...

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

That's not quite fair to Austen. It's disastrous to marry with NO attention to there being an income sufficient to raise a family (c.f. Mrs. Price), but three of the heroines (Elinor, Fanny, & Catherine) marry younger sons living on a clergyman's salary, and Anne engaged herself to a sailor living off the prospect of prize-money (and spurned both a well-off landowner and her father's rich heir to the baronetcy for his sake). And though Marianne settled for Brandon and Eliza for Darcy, the one certainly and the other probably would have taken her first preference, the poorer suitor, had he made an offer. However imprudent Eliza would have been in taking the steward's son living on an officer's pay, considerations of character aside. (Poor Wickham! Had he but realized he'd be cutting out Darcy, he might have gotten his revenge that way. Now there's an AU!)

So of 8 heroines, only 2 (Jane and Emma) do fall for the richest man available--and possibly not even Emma (the Churchills sound like they keep more state than Knightley).

And we do see Eliza, Fanny, and Anne refuse prudential matches, with no certainty that anything better will offer. And then there's poor Mary Crawford's pain at falling for the wrong brother....

However, I do agree there's a deal of classism in Austen.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The racism thing really is a problem. It's central to everything, but we see very little evidence of it until we get the whole "let's round up Muggleborns because it will seem like WWII" stuff in DH. Then there's the problem that the only racism that matters is anti-Muggleborn. There's no change for all the other different creatures.

So how common is the anti-Muggleborn attitude in Wizarding Britain, as far as we can see in canon?

In Harry's school years the only student to express this attitude in broad daylight is Draco, as far as I can recall, but we see in HBP that when Slytherins think they are among their own we hear Blaise referring to Ginny as 'blood traitor'. Either this view is common in Slytherin House or students are following the lead of the popular House member to be in his good graces.

In Severus' years Slytherins must have been more open about it for Lily to know Severus called other Muggleborns mudbloods.

In other Houses it is not acceptable to express anti-Muggleborn views. Whatever views Sirius brought from home he knew to make room for Lily at the Gryffindor table and he must have caught on fast enough what not to say. Note that during COS the Hufflepuffs tried to protect Justin. The Gryffindors just went on about their business with no special consideration for Hermione or Dean. This might just be House ethos.

Among adults - in broad daylight one can express views about the status of purebloods in general (Borgin about wizard blood counting less everywhere) but adults refer to blood status of individuals obliquely (Lucius 'a girl of no wizard family'). Though in HBP Narcissa doesn't correct Draco for calling Hermione a mudblood in public.

Beyond name-calling - is there discrimination against Muggle-borns? Are Muggle-borns accepted socially among other wizards? All Muggle-borns we know of, if they married they married wizarding-born and raised wizards: Kendra, Ted Tonks, Mary Cattermole, Lily, Hermione, probably Dirk Cresswell (because only he was arrested, not his wife and sons). OTOH we know very little about occupations of adult Muggleborns. We know Dirk was head of the goblin-liaison office and Hermione apparently went on to make herself a career in the Ministry but we don't know about anyone else. Of course any of the shopkeepers in Diagon Alley or Hogsmeade could be Muggle-borns unless we know otherwise (I'm sure Borgin isn't and we know the Weasley twins aren't and neither is Ollivander or Aberforth but that's about it) and the same goes for the professional Quidditch players. We don't know how many Muggle-borns work at the Ministry in any capacity and we know even less if they are less likely to be promoted than others. We do know the following:

- in the 1940s not being known to be of a wizarding family may have been a hindrance if one intended to become Minister
- after Umbridge's purges the Ministry managed to keep working as usual, it wasn't collapsing from losing too many workers
- Arthur's network of friends at the Ministry doesn't seem to include any Muggleborns

So perhaps there weren't that many Muggle-borns employed by the Ministry. Was that due to discriminatory hiring practices or because there are in fact fewer Muggle-borns than Rowling's interviews and other external materials led us to believe?

And what of the fact that for a Black to marry a Potter, Prewett or Longbottom around the 1940s was acceptable and fine (as opposed to marrying a Weasley)? Does this mean that in those days such families were just as purist as the Blacks? Or did they keep their political stand hidden? Or what?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I tend to think of the answer as basically being that it's not in the worldbuilding, it's just a sort of shorthand reference to ideas about racism in our world. There are the racists, people like the Malfoys and the Death Eaters, who use these words, and they're basically representing the kind of people who use racial slurs in our world. But they don't have the complex, sometimes contradictory history that a real society would have. Hermione gets a letter in GoF calling her "Muggle" and that's a hint that there is an undercurrent of anti-Muggleborn prejudice--as one would think there should be. But the only time we ever see it is exactly in scenes like that, where a character is being revealed as the wizard equivalent of a racist by saying something like that. Likewise we've got the propaganda and round ups of DH.

We also have things like Ernie saying he's Pureblood back "9 generations" or some such, which seems to link Purebloodedness to something like class.

But it still just seems like an empty space to me, in a way. Hermione is not only completely accepted institutionally, she is privileged enough to get special treatment at times. And when we see the divide b/w Muggleborns and other students as long as it's not a Slytherin dealing with them, we see no difference in the way they're treated.

What's more important, I think, is that there's not even any actual differences the way there totally should be. Every year a huge group of kids enters the world without even knowing it existed before. Yet there's no Muggleborn culture *at all?* There's never any significant difference at all. Which you could say is a way of pointing out that the Muggleborn inferiority thing is all in the heads of people like the Malfoys, and that's fine, but it also makes it seem kind of superficial and less scary. In fact, sometimes it seems almost kind of romanticized. Hermione can strike a pose of solidarity with a goblin in DH but the Muggleborn thing is an internal fight of the dominant race. She has very little experience with the kind of discrimination we know goblins face. I mean, we don't know what kinds of people work at the ministry because there's no reason we could tell without someone being described via their blood. And when it seems clear they are all Wizard-raised because they're clueless it seems far more likely that's for comedy's sake rather than making a statement about the Ministry's hiring practices because there's never any indication of Muggleborns being in lesser jobs. It would make perfect sense if the Ministry was a who-you-know operation so people with family have an advantage, but even that wouldn't exactly be the same thing. And there's really no reason to think that it does work that way, necessarily.

[oryx_leucoryx]

If we were to go by Harry's interest level in people, then his One True Passion was Dumbledore--and even then not until after Dumbledore was dead.

Or Draco. At least in HBP.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Hehe. It was so funny how much H/D there was in DH, too!

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

With all due respect to Madderbrad, this is one of the reasons I (instinctively) knew that Harry/Hermione was a no go. Ron was always interested in what Hermione was up to, even if he was really mad at her. Harry barely remember she existed when she was out of sight.

'Barely remembering her when she's out of sight' is INFINITELY preferable to the active aggression that Ron displays towards his purported sweetheart in this novel, don't you think? I do! :-)

Even as I write this, though, I realize that the same could be said about Ginny.

YEAH! WHAT YOU SAID!

Don't use Harry's passive and self-absorbed personality as a barometer to measure the relationships of other couples!

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Active agression? In this novel - in all the novels - he's just a lot of noise! He doesn't scar anyone for life - unlike his truly agressive consort. If she was a muggle, she'd be in Borstal!

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

Meant to add - I’d rather someone looked me in the eye and shouted than hid safely under an Invisibility Cloak and tortured me.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Active agression? In this novel - in all the novels - he's just a lot of noise! He doesn't scar anyone for life - unlike his truly agressive consort. If she was a muggle, she'd be in Borstal!

Oh, I'll happily concede that Hermione is Ron's superior in any and all matters, including violence. :-)

But still, when it comes to the affection directed at her by her two boys, I think Harry's emotional void - and that's only when she's 'out of sight', as Montavilla originally posited - and only in this book, maybe - is far better than Ron's 'active' - albeit only verbal - aggression. Aggression is aggression. Lack of respect, of understanding, of sympathy, of agreement, expressed verbally is still a lack of respect, of understanding, of sympathy, of agreement.

I’d rather someone looked me in the eye and shouted than hid safely under an Invisibility Cloak and tortured me.

Ah, but you've failed here to grasp the full extent of the ethical framework of the Harry Potter series; I'm sure Rowling would instruct you to "go back and re-read the books". :-)

The morality of actions in Rowling's work depends on who makes them. A Cruciatius curse cast by Bellatrix is BAD. The curse cast by Harry is GOOD (or, at least, NOT BAD). Draco and his henchmen terrorising students is BAD. Ginny assaulting those who dare to insult her is GOOD (or funny).

(I don't like it either.)

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

I do agree with most of this - especially what you say about racism, which doesn't hang together at all (and what always got me about it is this: why do the GOOD GUYS use Nazi terminology?! The whole Wizarding World does - no exceptions!)

But I have to say that I object to this remark very strongly: two years later, Harry is teaching the spell even to such duffers as Neville.

Neville is not a duffer. As Helen Ketcham pointed out, he is magically very strong - arguably stronger than Harry - but he lacks confidence and control. I believe Jodel is right about the reason; for quite awhile, he lacks the will to focus his magic. My two cents.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

You're right. I apologize. I used Neville because I was trying to think of someone who wasn't good at learning spells and Neville's just about the only one in the whole school (except Crabbe and Goyle, who weren't in the DA) who seems academically challenged.

But if I try to think of a student who is magically (as opposed to academically) weak, I can't really think of anyone. The only time we had students pitted against each other in a duelling situation, it was Draco and Harry casting spells at each in the dueling club (each politely waiting his turn), the kids in the sixth year DADA class, or Draco and Harry in the bathroom.

At no time did magical "strength" ever play a part in the process. The only time magical strength mattered was when Harry was dueling Voldemort in the graveyard. And Harry won because he was morally stronger. Or else Voldemort was weak, but everyone acts like he's really strong.

Informed attributes! Everyone talks about how strong and scary Voldemort is as a wizard, but he never overpowers anyone. Either they just sit there and let him kill/torture them (the DE's), or he gets whupped (Dumbledore and Harry).

How did this guy get to be the most feared wizard in the country, anyway?

[oryx_leucoryx]

My version of the history is that originally he was only feared by Dumbledore's political faction - the teachers, his supporters in the Wizengamot, Arthur and his friends - and their families. We were being mislead when we thought the 'we' who didn't have much to celebrate for 11 years were the entire population, they were the people Voldemort targeted for disappearances (his army of inferi). Then in early 1979 (when the cave project was complete) they went ballistic and started the killing-entire-families-and-flying-the-Dark-Mark part which got the Ministry into the disarray that brought Crouch's policies.

So in the first phase it was DEs kidnapping unsuspecting people and bringing them to Tom who killed them and made them into inferi and the second it was DEs killing unsuspecting people at their homes. Tom himself mostly sat back and played with his toys when they were brought to him. What scared people was the terrorist element - striking unexpectedly at random, or in people's homes, where they expected to be safe.

Tom's magical achievements were mostly private (the Horcruxes, the cave of doom) or known only to his inner circle (controlling them via the Dark Mark). Maybe the one special trick that was known to the greater public was the light-display version of the Dark Mark.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

I see. That makes sense.

And I agree that Voldemort really isn't all that scary - or even all that smart, by DH. Darth Vader works a lot better as an ueber-villain.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I assumed she was using "duffer" to refer to Neville's reputation. He's almost always the student shown having trouble in spells. So the fact that Harry is teaching Neville a Patronus and succeeding does kind of undermine the idea that it should only be able to be done by a student more like Hermione or someone with a special skill. Given that all the other students there are ordinary as well, it doesn't seem like this is really a sign of Neville's true skills or anything. It really is just something anybody can learn with a little patience from the teacher.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

--- "With all due respect to Madderbrad, this is one of the reasons I (instinctively) knew that Harry/Hermione was a no go. Ron was always interested in what Hermione was up to, even if he was really mad at her. Harry barely remember she existed when she was out of sight."

Yeah - that and the interview she gave *ages* ago when some woman suggested that the fan fiction favourite of 'Hero' and 'Heroine' getting together was a possibility. (It was so long ago that JKR still had brown hair and had had no plastic surgery yet - and people didn't realise that a Hero and Heroine don't appear in this series after Goblet of Fire...) JKR said something along the lines of 'No, it's Ron and Hermione I think, don't you?" I think Bloomsbury/Scholastic/Warner Brothers took all copies off the market once the films really started the shipping wars - more money in a 'mystery'. What if Ron/Hermione were supposed to get together in Book 4 (part of the plot that got away from her?!) but big business persuaded her not to? Fair enough - whilst big business is usually bad news for creativity, the romance was hardly the worst part of this series. Might as well cash in.

When I still liked Hermione, I admired her for all the work she did for Harry, but didn't see it as something that would inspire love, rather being taken for granted - especially with his character. Before they all got married, Harry would really expect to be able to bring his washing for her to do at weekends, while he was out courting Ginny - who I hate quite as much - until she became his fembot and took over housewifely tasks. Actually, laundry duties for Hermione started in Deathly Hallows...

---"it's such an annoying thing about Hermione! After the first year, she's only ever vulnerable when she's trying to break bad news to Harry. And that eventually comes off like she's afraid he'll go crazy and stab her."

I really liked her when her 'Plain Jane Super Brain' persona seemed to hide some depth. Insecure, excellent at theory, slightly panicky under pressure. Instead of this heartless machine by the end. She seemed loyal, to the extent of going against her natural devotion to the rules, instead of appearing determined to prove herself right and in control at all costs with Harry happening to benefit.

In Book Two, how did she manage to explain away the 'Polyjuice Potion Transformation gone wrong due to animal hair' incident? Was she punished for stealing and breaking all the rules? Or did she say she 'accidentally' made some Polyjuice over the course of a month? If Dumbles acknowledged later in the series that he let her get away with it because Harry needed his friends, fair enough, but I don't remember it. Instead it seems the beginning of her reign of terror going unchecked.

Also where were her parents?! Not when she was a catperson so much, she could still write to them etc and keep it quiet, but during her petrified time? Wildly off topic, but for crying out loud!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, we know Hermione showed up in feline form at the hospital wing, we know she got a 'get well' card from Lockhart but nothing else about staff reactions. Nor did the boys suffer any repercussions despite the fact that when Crabbe and Goyle's tale of waking up in a closet and finding their shoes on the outside didn't match Draco's memories of the evening I'm sure Severus heard something. I suppose Dumbledore decided the natural consequences of being hospitalized for a month were punishment enough, but there is no mention in canon of his (or anyone else's) reaction.