PoA Chapter Fourteen

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Seems Sirius has escaped again from the castle. At least that's what we're told this by the woman who insisted there was no way he could get into the castle to begin with as long as there was a mentally challenged portrait standing guard. No reason not to take her word for it.

The kids see signs of more security, a slight improvement over the no security we've seen previously. BTW, WhereTF is Dumbledore?

I like that they're teaching the front doors to recognize Sirius' picture. That’s funny.

Funny but also wonderfully dumb, like they’ve just figured out they ought to start locking the front door if they don't want the maniac to walk in a third time.

Harry's noticed that the one big tunnel that leads straight into the school hasn't been closed up or guarded. Naturally he doesn't tell anyone. Irrelevant, really.

Ron backs him up on this, speculating that if Black broke into Honeydukes they'd hear about it. Um, why? The only reason you two knew he'd broken into Hogwarts was that he did something crazy when he was in Gryffindor Tower where you sleep. He could have been living off stolen blood lollies at Honeydukes all this time for all you know. And even if you did hear about a candy store break-in there's no guarantee you’d hear about it before Sirius had slit your throat. It's not like you’d pick it up on Twitter while the break in was in progress.

Harry and Voldemort both refuse to take it as a given that if they tripped over something in Hogwarts, it's quite possible lots of other people over the years have too. In Voldemort's case this seems to be due to arrogance. With Harry it's just plain lack of imagination. Oh, and also greed. He wants the passage open so he can buy candy. How come nobody ever plays the Ten Tongue Toffee trick on him?

Ron’s clearly enjoying the experience of being of more interest than Harry, who never ever enjoys any sort of attention that he gets.

Oh wow. Ugh! Horrible Americanization here! The text file I'm reading is the US version and it has Ron saying, "I rolled over…and I saw him standing over me…like a skeleton, with loads of filthy hair…holding this great long knife, must’ve been twelve inches…and he looked at me, and I looked at him, and then I yelled, and he scampered." (Italics mine) Jeez, guys, I know scarperedisn't an American expression but a kid wouldn't say that the knife-wielding maniac scampered away like a bunny.

Meanwhile, Neville's humiliated for his mistake when he almost ought to be praised for shedding light on exactly how bad the security system was here.

What humiliation is in store for the person who hired Sir Cadogan, a guy who not only made the passwords as hard as possible for the kids but didn’t change them when he knew a week's worth had gone missing? Let me guess, was it the same guy who enlists Hagrid to be a bodyguard?

Hagrid sends a letter to Harry to meet him for tea. I'll try to take comfort in the fact that it isn't tear-stained at least, but it's a meager comfort.

Ron thinks Hagrid wants to talk about Black. As if Hagrid would ever want to talk about something relevant or interesting.

Harry and Ron feel guilty about forgetting to care about Hagrid's professional troubles. It's not like Hagrid’s ever felt guilty about forgetting—or dismissing—their troubles of any kind.

Hagrid actually wants to talk about Hermione. He begins by defending her cat, saying it was just doing what all cats do. Except whether or not cats naturally eat rats, if YOUR cat eats YOUR FRIEND’S rat, you apologize, feel bad and take responsibility for it as its owner. That goes double if your monster slices somebody's arm open.

I am sympathetic to Hermione here, but she actually was the one who separated herself over the Scabbers thing—at least from Harry. Harry made an overture once he got his Firebolt back (self-serving as that is) and then she snapped at him just for saying Crookshanks ate the rat. Not that Harry couldn't talk to her again, of course, if Harry cared enough to make the effort. But it was Hermione who stormed off from him.

Still, it's a switcheroo over the fight, pretending that the fight was over both boys being angry at Hermione because of what her cat did when Hermione has so far refused to consider that her cat could have done anything. Like when Harry goes around sure Seamus is making a stand against him on the Voldemort question when he was really angry that Harry insulted his mother. Eventually Seamus seems to wind up agreeing with Harry's version.

Even though I do feel sorry for Hermione, I hate the way we're naturally back in Hagrid's world where the true victims are the person who didn't lose their only pet who didn't harm anyone (as far as they know) and didn’t get physically attacked. Without ever pausing for any sympathy for the people who did suffer those things.

What about poor Ripper who probably missed his dinner keeping Harry up in that tree? It must really hurt Aunt Marge’s feelings that Harry's angry about that.

Hagrid says he thought the boys cared about their friend more than broomsticks or rats. I'm not sure why since Hagrid's role in the books is mostly centers around his caring more about his hippogriff, dragon or spiders over his friends and students.

Weirdly, I can picture Hagrid giving this speech to the boys if Hermione was their single mother. She's got all this work to do and she's so worried about them and is trying to keep them safe and they need to be more appreciative and clean their rooms…

Hermione was really upset when Sirius nearly stabbed Ron. After he's married Ron probably hires people to regularly injure him in an attempted murder since it's like the only time Hermione can express an uncomplicated affection.

Ron says he wants Hermione to get rid of her cat, which is just stupid. Deal with the dead rat and move on. But then, Ron and Hermione can never let it alone with each other. Soulmates.

Hagrid says people can be stupid about their pets and the narrator has the class to tell us that he said this "wisely" and then pan over to Buckbeak to be ironic. It’s not that the series doesn't get that Hagrid’s an idiot, it just seems to present his idiocy as a virtue.

And again, to keep hammering on it, when Hagrid says that people can be stupid about their pets the text means him and Hermione, not Ron and the Malfoys (if we think of Draco for a pet for a second there). Has Hagrid counseled Hermione to apologize to Ron at all? Because his situation is just as analogous to Hagrid and Buckbeak's.

Then we’re back to Quidditch. Phew! Not a word about the one interesting thing going on in the book.

Hermione pops up again to say that if Harry goes to Hogsmeade again she'll tell McGonagall about the map. Ron basically tells her to shut her fat mouth or he'll shut it for her. He must really be in love!

Harry stands there and says nothing. Jeez, Harry.

OMG! Not only does he do nothing, he just checks to see if Hermione's gone before he goes back to planning his escape. It's creepy the way Ron is sometimes there to be a jerk so Harry can enjoy the benefits without being the jerk himself. Ron's useful all right. Make no mistake.

This was probably another one of those moments where Harry was privately approving of Ron's words, like with Ginny and Dean.

If I were Hermione I would never want to be with anyone who talked to me the way Ron talks to her here, btw. But I guess it turns Hermione on or something.

Hermione sounds like the reasonable one here, but don't be fooled. She's still not going to tell McGonagall about the passage. If she can see the danger in the Firebolt why does she have no problem with a secret passage nobody knows about? It's not as if Black—like everyone else—wasn't once a student at the school.

Uh-oh, here comes Neville. Look, Nev, Harry’s busy. Go away and come back when a snake needs killing.

Harry ditches Neville. You can see why Neville’s such a loyal friend to him.

Did Harry bring a coat this time? Or is it no longer Christmas so there's no need for cold weather?

They go to the post office. Exciting! But nonsensical! You don't actually need a central post office when you send letters door to door with your bird. So just for a few paragraphs, pretend that owls are like stamps.

The tiniest owls are used for local deliveries only, because being tiny means you can’t fly far. But you can still hold a letter several times your own weight.

I think JKR just wanted to put in that she knew that owls have breeds and that one of them is called the Scops owls.

Harry and Ron go to a joke shop and buy a lot of stuff that does not seem worth the money. Totally worth risking your very life, there, Harry.

Seriously, when you consider all the stuff Ron and Harry could be doing given they have magical powers, the idea that it's a treat to spend the day in an ordinary village looking at owls just like they have at school and buying the magical equivalent of plastic vomit is kind of unbelievable. Harry isn’t even a joker. What fun does he have with this stuff?

Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle appear, naturally talking about the awful Hagrid plot. Whatevs.

I realize that JKR is doing the right thing by bringing everything back to the plots, such as they are, but wouldn’t it be cool if just once Malfoy walked up and was saying something completely unrelated to Harry's life? Like, "…up the courage to tell his mother but then his dad got sick again and you know whenever Theo tries to talk to her about the possibility of his dad not…" before he snapped into "What are you doing, Weasley?"

Harry throws mud at Malfoy from under his cloak. Did no one at this school ever suspect that Harry had an invisibility cloak? I guess if the words "Time Turner" have never come out of Ron’s mouth even after watching Hermione study for 3 classes at once we can’t expect to hear Malfoy say "invisibility cloak" just because he’s discovered a guy who’s never without his bff standing alone on a hill right before he’s hit with mud by an invisible person.

Oh wait, Malfoy does figure it out. It just takes him until HBP. Here he's just for some reason scared of Harry's face even though he’s got every reason to just say, "Oh, I see, you’re under a cloak."

Or else Malfoy is just more horrified by disembodied heads than disembodied feet.

Harry wonders if anyone would believe Malfoy if he told them about this wondrous occurrence. Again, Harry, magic. Malfoy didn’t actually see anything that wondrous, by the rules of the world in which you have lived for 3 years.

Snape's collected a few more slimy things in jars to his office, adding to the threatening atmosphere. It literally says that. Slytherins are so Goth. Remember how in DH we suddenly hear that their common room is full of skulls?

Dark Magic honestly does seem to be shorthand for vaguely Gothic taste. If you don't have that you could be a gang raping Quidditch team and it would still be good clean fun.

Uh oh. Harry's been caught. You know what that means. Start feeling unjustly persecuted quickly Harry! Avoid any passing thought of accepting punishment!

Snape lectures Harry on how everyone's trying to keep him safe and Harry just doesn't care and goes where he wants. If he hasn't yet appreciated that people want to keep him alive, why would he appreciate it when one of them is Snape?

Harry flies into a rage at Snape insulting his dad, even though Snape's insults aren’t really that bad. Nice callback to Aunt Marge, though, giving Harry a reason to be primed to be sensitive about it.

Snape is often wrong in saying Harry is like James, but if you get out of Harry’s head you would see a guy not completely unlike James. Yeah, there's times where the text is jumping up and down to show that all of James's bad qualities should be mapped onto Malfoy, but Harry's in there too.

Snape tells Harry about the Prank played on him back in school, making it as usual sound like a far better story than the one we eventually get in DH.

Harry claims all the junk in his pockets came from Ron last time he went to Hogsmeade. Snape says it’s very touching Harry’s still carrying them around after all this time—LOL Snape!

Harry tries to pass off the map as old parchment. Snape agrees it's very old. I can’t help but wonder if the Marauders didn't intentionally make it on an ancient parchment—just to add to the pirate atmosphere. (Pirates were all about good magic.)

Snape makes another crack about treasured gifts from Ron.

I would laugh at Snape's cheesy attempts to make the map work, but given how Lupin reveals himself to Harry at Shell Cottage ("It is I, Remus Lupin!") it's obviously just the way you're supposed to do these things so shut up.

People often claim that SWM was a big surprise and turnaround for James? And I've never gotten why. The Marauders are bullies in this scene through the map. They immediately start picking on Snape's personal appearance.

I mean, it's clever that we assume that the voices are just taking Harry's side or are against Snape because he's hostile to the map or something, but what's actually going on—as we know by the end of the book—is that Snape's getting picked on as the ugly outcast just like he used to be and Harry's one of the Marauders in his eyes. Of course Snape sees Harry as James here.

Lupin, like any good teacher, starts lying to cover Harry's ass. Because God forbid Harry just get a detention for sneaking around, or even worse have to say how he got out and so tip someone off to the hole in school security.

Lupin gets to tell Snape (later) that he should let all this stuff from their past go, even while passively removing himself of responsibility for the map's picking on Snape now. Snape does need to get over this stuff, but he has good reason to see MWPP as being the same as ever to him. It's not like any of them ever apologize for being asses or admit they did anything wrong. We know Snape can be just as much of an ass, but pretty much every flashback shows us scenes where Snape's minding his own business and they target him for bullying. I can't imagine a scene where Snape effectively hurt any of them. TL;DR, Snape’s stunted and pathetic, but they never grow up either.

Lupin’s all innocently "full of Dark Magic? I think it’s just childish" about the map. Which is probably the best definition of Dark Magic we'll get. Old-fashioned, good-natured bullying of repulsive kids is just childish fun! It's you people who are into Dark Magic. Our anger is righteous. Yours is the sign of a festering sore on the soul.

It still surprises me that something as small as Peter's sycophantic behavior is a sign of his ultimate badness, but James's and Sirius's cruelty is a dead end and something we're all supposed to identify with or brush off because they’re 15.

Lupin goes on covering up, denying that Harry got the map from him, though Snape would naturally have good reason to think that he did get the map from him.

Really, it's a pretty huge honkin' coincidence that he happened to get the map from unrelated people the same year Lupin showed up. And I doubt Lupin went to see Snape later to more earnestly assure him that he wasn't behind it. So Snape is left feeling like he was being played again. And it really would look like Lupin was helping Harry get away from security and protecting Sirius.

Reading this again I remember why Snape comes across as so sympathetic. He causes a lot of his own problems, but other characters like Harry, James and Sirius never have to do penence, acknowledge the reality of other people or admit they are wrong the way Snape did. Traumatizing other people sometimes actually does lead to those people not trusting you and striking back years later. (Which is why in my personal canon right in the middle of a big toast at Hermione's wedding a rather nasty word broke out in pustules all over her face.)

That's why this scene is really fun.

Lupin figures that as long as he's covering for the map, he'll randomly cover for Harry's trip into Hogsmeade as well. Uncle Lupin is just handing out the free passes today!

Lupin's astounded Harry didn't hand the map in, even though he's not going to hand it in either.

And he's not going to tell anyone about the passage either. WTF?

Lupin warns Harry not to expect him to cover up for him again. Well, why on earth are you covering up for him the first time, you silly werewolf? Oh right. Wants to be liked.

Harry feels a smidge badly about being so cavalier with his safety now that Lupin brings up his parents dying to save him. Harry Potter: Cares more about the feelings of dead people he doesn’t remember than his living best friends.

I would add that Harry also takes the same advice totally differently depending on who is saying it, but that goes without saying.

They run into Hermione and Ron gets ready to mouth off again, but it turns out she's actually bringing the next cliffhanger. Buckbeak's going to be executed. Look, I don't care. Ron doesn't care. Harry doesn't care. They just admitted earlier that they don't. So this isn't a cliffhanger.

Things that happen more than once:
Ron thrives under unexpected attention, as he will again in OotP.
First trip to the Shrieking Shack.
First Hagrid, now Hermione suffers from people expecting her to take responsibility when her pet hurts someone else.
Harry goes to Hogsmeade again the same way.
Harry flies into a rage when someone criticizes his father.
Second version of the Prank.
Lupin shirks his duty as an authority figure, screwing Snape in the process, just like he does in SWM.
Lupin saves Harry from the consequences of his irresponsibility the way the Trio will now save Hagrid from his.
Snape, otoh, ought to realize the Prank was all his fault, as presumably Malfoy should take all responsibility for the Buckbeak thing. I'm sensing a house pattern here.
Neville's to blame for the school’s stupid security measures just as Malfoy's to blame for Hagrid's stupid security measures.
Meanwhile, four people in a row decide not to tell anyone about the more obvious hole in the security system.

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!
My dad didn’t strut!
Status: Fired in Harry’s face. Harry’s dad struts so fine he tutors roosters on weekends.

Who are those guys who made that map?
Status: Fired, obviously, in a few chapters.

The Prank!
Status: Fired, but not before everything's arranged to make Snape mostly responsible. He practically plays a Prank on himself. James barely noticed.

Sirius slashed the curtains around Ron's bed
Status: Fired. The drapery will have their revenge. Mwahahahaha!





Jabootu Score:

Designated Hero
Hermione shows herself willing to sacrifice her only friends to keep one of them safe. Ron goes Stanley Kowalski on her ass. Our designated hero? Doesn’t even think of stepping in to defend her.

Also James Potter, according to Snape. Don't you dare say he saved his life!!!

Misdirected Answering
Let’s see, Harry, Ron and Hagrid have talked about Hermione and his hippogriff. What else could there be to talk about? Oh yes, Quidditch!

Jabootu score 3

Comments

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

This is a Hermione-friendly chapter, right? No Hermione Grangers were harmed in the review of this chapter?

*takes deep breath and starts reading*

Ron backs him up on this, speculating that if Black broke into Honeydukes they'd hear about it. Um, why?

Silly, SILLY Ron! Ignore him, Harry. It's like like the advice came from *Hermione*, after all.

Hagrid sends a letter to Harry to meet him for tea. I'll try to take comfort in the fact that it isn't tear-stained at least, but it's a meager comfort.

Ha ha ha!!!! :-)

I am sympathetic to Hermione here

*wipes brow; it is safe to proceed!*

Hagrid says he thought the boys cared about their friend more than broomsticks or rats.

I never fully realised what an absolute SAINT Hagrid is! God bless 'im.

After he's married Ron probably hires people to regularly injure him in an attempted murder since it's like the only time Hermione can express an uncomplicated affection.

Oh, I laughed-out-loud with this one. These reviews are excellent! (Just lay off Hermione, okay? Great, thanks.) :-)

It’s not that the series doesn't get that Hagrid’s an idiot, it just seems to present his idiocy as a virtue.

And again, to keep hammering on it, when Hagrid says that people can be stupid about their pets the text means him and Hermione, not Ron and the Malfoys (if we think of Draco for a pet for a second there). Has Hagrid counseled Hermione to apologize to Ron at all? Because his situation is just as analogous to Hagrid and Buckbeak's.

Do you really think Rowling meant for the readers to see Hagrid's double-standards at play here?

I regret to say that I didn't really pick up on it in the first and only time I read the book, years ago. And these days - given how badly she failed with the last two books - I really don't have any respect for Rowling at all. Many of her interviews have shown that she really can't see what we see, she's blind to anything but her own biased mental image of her world, and that her mental model is really really simplistic.

I really think there's a good chance she was as blind to Hagrid's hypocrisy here as she was to all the other stupidity of the later books. Really.

Ron basically tells her to shut her fat mouth or he'll shut it for her. He must really be in love!

Well, the overall indicator of true love throughout the series is jealousy, but R/Hr also has the lazy television sitcom writer's 'fighting means true love' trope going for it as well.

It's creepy the way Ron is sometimes there to be a jerk so Harry can enjoy the benefits without being the jerk himself. Ron's useful all right. Make no mistake.

There you go, this is part of what I was trying to say about Ron in the comments of the last chatper's review, about Ron's role in 'dragging Harry down', take it easy mate she'll be right, just accept the status quo. You put it better and found a concrete example (with Ron being more actively nasty in this case).

If I were Hermione I would never want to be with anyone who talked to me the way Ron talks to her here, btw. But I guess it turns Hermione on or something.

That's one of the horrible things about Rowling's R/Hr, of course. I'm not sure if a pro-canon fan's stance on R/Hr has their true luv starting all the way back to third year or before; I *think* so. Certainly just one year from now they would have one believe that R/Hr is a done deal. Hermione just spends all of these years attracted to Ron and waiting for him to grow up. While fighting with him like cats and dogs and accepting enduring all of these insults.

It's horrible.

Really, it's a pretty huge honkin' coincidence that he happened to get the map from unrelated people the same year Lupin showed up.

I find it hard to believe that the twins would suddenly give Harry their gift of the map. When they could use it themselves. When "knowing all the secret passages" doesn't cover for how the map gives on the location of all the castle inhabitants in real time, something they would always need. But you covered this in a previous review I think.

But yeah, just another Rowling co-incidence.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I'm not sure if a pro-canon fan's stance on R/Hr has their true luv starting all the way back to third year or before...

I'm not a pro-canon stancer but...

CoS ch. 15, "Aragog" has Ron wanting to fight Draco Malfoy during Potions for the things Malfoy is saying about Hermione. Same chapter, when Harry wants Ron to follow the trail of spiders with him, Ron looks at Hermione's empty chair to ramp up the courage to go with Harry.

One for the H/Hr shippers which turned out to be instead a) a clue to the mystery of CoS and b) a clue to H/G - When Harry, Ron and the twins are playing Exploding Snap while Harry and Ron wait to follow the spiders, Harry notices Ginny sitting quietly in Hermione's usual chair and watching the game.

But like I said before, I'd rather Rowling had left the outcome of the shipping a mystery. That epilogue was the pits.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Ginny sat in Hermione's chair? THAT BRAZEN HUSSY, HOW DARE SHE!! :-)

I understand it all now ... under the thumb of the diary Ginny's true character and instincts rose to the surface, and thus she deliberately targetted Harry's true soulmate, stepping into her chair as soon as Harry's best distaff friend was dispatched.

Never fear, Hermione ... Ginny might sit in your chair, but we all know she could NEVER fill your shoes! :-)

Thanks for the info; so R/Hr starts from CoS, then, for some canon junkies. I'm pretty sure some of the most zealous H/G fans were saying "please. It was obvious" as soon as Harry had watched Ginny waving goodbye *to her brothers* at the train station in book 1.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

"Never fear, Hermione ... Ginny might sit in your chair, but we all know she could NEVER fill your shoes! :-)"
OMG you don't want Ginny to be the hero's LI because you don't want her to be important to the plot!!! you evil evil shoving-Ginny-to-the-background non H/G shipper.
(...hey maybe that's what JKR meant when she said she was subverting the fantasy genre? making the hero's LI useless and insignificant to the story and making the hero's platonic female fried someone he couldn't walk two steps without her assistance?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

OMG you don't want Ginny to be the hero's LI because you don't want her to be important to the plot!!

It's not that I "didn't want her to be important to the plot"; as it turned out Ginny was, indeed, entirely inconsequential and totally unimportant to the plot. Regardless of my opinion or desires on the topic. Other than her being the stand-in for Tom's puppet in book #2.

you evil evil shoving-Ginny-to-the-background non H/G shipper.

Well, I just call it how it's written in the books. You can blame Rowling for putting Ginny in the background.

Well, in six of the seven books; I blame Rowling for so artificially boosting her into the stratosphere in HBP. Which made her fall back into relative obscurity in the last even more noticeable in contrast.

hey maybe that's what JKR meant when she said she was subverting the fantasy genre? making the hero's LI useless and insignificant to the story and making the hero's platonic female fried someone he couldn't walk two steps without her assistance?

Certainly, Ginny turned out to be so useless in all other respects, it was insulting how Harry's adolescent chest monster started lusting after her in HBP. Things like that might happen in real life, goodness knows some boys only home in on the superficial physical attributes of the girl - and hey, Harry was a dumb sixteen year old - but it was horrible to read! Not entertaining at all.

And yes, I agree, Harry would have been lost without Hermione. What a gal!

But I doubt Rowling thought her H/G was 'subverting the fantasy genre'. In all the post-publication interviews Rowling's been only too quick to pat herself on the back and tell everyone how wonderful she wrote H/G ... and Harry ... and everything.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I have to agree with Madderbrad. Ginny turned out to be nothing but a prize for Harry at the end. And she's such a prize that Harry decides he'll start claiming her.... later. After he's had a nap and a sandwich.

I was looking at TV Tropes for her, but apparently she's too boring to even have a trope, even though the "girl who gets out of the way and waits for the hero to come back" is ubiquitous.

Maybe JKR was trying so hard to avoid making Ginny into a cliché (damsel in distress, plucky little sister, bitchy cheerleader, kind to animals) that she ended up making her into nothing at all.

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

...that she ended up making her into nothing at all.

That's the sense I get. Ginny is the character who wasn't there, which is just... Well, it makes sense in that Harry is so perfect his soul-mate would need to be a reflection for him rather than a person in their own right. But it's sad. I mean, Ginny is what Harry needs at that exact moment (damsel in distress, bitchy jock, womb) but she's never herself. It's like Diary!Tom hollowed her out for Harry to fill with whatever personality he desires at the time... *shiver* I just creeped myself out.

But this is why I don't get the *passionate* hatred of her. Especially after DH, what is there to hate? She's a shell, not a character. Might as well hate... I don't know, the Hogwarts Express.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

You don't want to get me started on the Hogwarts Express. I was sure there were hints throughout the books for HE/FA (Ford Anglia), because even though they were just means of transportation, the competition between them to transport Harry must have been intense, rivaling even the boat/Thestral conflict. But reading between the lines, why would the car have sped away from her charges unless she was driven by the sight of that powerful steam engine chugging manfully underneath her? It was obvious in the movie. Look, here she is, so excited by the scarlet locomotive she nearly drops... Harry! That's just misdirection, though.



Talk about anvils! But JKR turned the passivity we saw in the Dementor in the compartment scene and magnified it ten-fold in the Harry snooping in the Slytherin car scene, making it look like HE was unworthy of carrying The Chosen One! I was sure HE's strange detachment would be straightened out in DH, but JKR didn't even have a scene with HE. She only noted that Luna was removed from the train. And the valiant FA, who once again came to Harry and Ron's rescue in the Forest, wasn't mentioned at all in DH, even though JKR said she would be (http://www.accio-quote.org/articles/1999/0999-barnesnoble-staff.htm)!

Now we know that HE was always meant to be with the snack lady, and who knows what happened to FA? I choose to believe she died on the battlefield fighting the Death Eaters, having nothing left to live for after the fall of Sirius Black's motorcycle.

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

LOL! and also \o/. The pictorial proof is what pushes this into winz-internet land. :D

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I don't know, the HE always came across to me as widowed long in the past. FA, OTOH, was more of a Robin Hood romantic type with loyalties to her former family as RH held his loyalties to Richard - see scene in the forest where FA greets Ron like her long-lost master and compare to the scene in RH: Prince of Thieves when Richard appears. More fodder for the comparison: Alan Rickman is in both movies.

The FA, though, would totally be pining away for the Beaux Batons coach, which she met in GoF (though we weren't privileged to see that scene). The coach is to the FA like Maid Marian is to RH.

[lissa2.livejournal.com]

Hey you know that I'm a loyal ARGH soldier, I was only mocking the (now extremely ironic) pre-DH claim that anyone who ships Ginny with someone other than Harry wants to shove her to the background.

"But I doubt Rowling thought her H/G was 'subverting the fantasy genre'. In all the post-publication interviews Rowling's been only too quick to pat herself on the back and tell everyone how wonderful she wrote H/G ... and Harry ... and everything"
No, I don't seriously think that either. But I sometimes do wonder how JKR really feels about H/G deep inside. She seems to have a bizarre love-hate relationship with the character of Ginny. And in DH she seemed bored with H/G. So I wonder if she ever thinks to herself "why didn't I write H/L instead?" (or H/Hr for that matter).
Not that she would ever dare to admit it to the public.

[sunnyskywalker]

I'm pretty sure some of the most zealous H/G fans were saying "please. It was obvious" as soon as Harry had watched Ginny waving goodbye *to her brothers* at the train station in book 1

That too, but non-fans/people who just didn't care also said that, because we had a feeling that some parts of the series were going to be really cliche even from the beginning. While interesting things can certainly be done with the formula of "abused orphan goes to magic school and discovers his tragic backstory and destiny," it didn't exactly lead me to expect romance plots with any depth, let alone anything slightly unexpected. It looked like an annoying cliche setup for a romance to me from the beginning, which made me roll my eyes, and unfortunately I was right. I would have loved to be wrong! I didn't even have a preference for who should end up with whom--I could have accepted H/G or H/H or H/R or H/L or H/D or no romance at all--so long as it was written non-stupidly. That's all I ask, Jo! Is that so hard?

The sad part to me is that I thought that even if some parts looked dumb from the beginning, there was still a good chance for the overall plot to be not-dumb to the end. I was young, what can I say.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

That's all I ask, Jo! Is that so hard?

It apparently was, for Rowling. :-(

there was still a good chance for the overall plot to be not-dumb to the end. I was young, what can I say.

You can also say that you believed all those years of interviews and engagements with the fans - prior to the conclusion of the series - within which Rowling implied or outright stated that all our questions would be answered, that she had a grand plan, everything would make sense at the end? When in fact she had no idea about how she was going to have Harry cross the finish line, only a few scattered images here and there. And proved unable to write a good end game.

I do think her self-promotion, and all the theories thought up by all those clever fans, just made Rowling's final failure appear all the worse.

[sunnyskywalker]

I figured she'd have a few dropped subplot threads and a few inconsistencies, but have some sort of resolution that made sense of at least, say, 3/4 of the stuff she'd brought up. I thought that was a realistic expectation. I was wrong :(

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

..."please. It was obvious" as soon as Harry had watched Ginny waving goodbye...

Actually, if you believe in cliches, this is the obvious cliche moment flash-frozen for all time.

The thing about Ginny in Hermione's chair is that it could support both H/G and H/Hr shippers. Harry notices *Ginny* (in Hermione's chair, the excuse for putting it into the story since Hermione is petrified) OR, Harry notices (someone, in this case Ron's sister) Ginny *in Hermione's chair* (so obviously he's missing Hr so much he even notices her chair a la Ron in Herbology). I was so un-shipping at that point - they were twelve-thirteen back in CoS, not such a romantic age for the stereotypical young male protagonist - so I thought all of these incidents just showed that the two boys considered Hermione their friend and they missed her.

Ginny in the chair acting uncharacteristically quiet (per Ron) was, in fact, a clue to her difficulties that year and to the mystery for which she is the key. Being in the chair of a victim ties her to the crime; being in Hermione's chair is an obvious reason for Friend!Harry to notice her so the readers can notice her and the clues she embodies.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Actually, if you believe in cliches, this is the obvious cliche moment flash-frozen for all time.

Well, it's never come up in the occasional rants I've witnessed of various feral zealous H/G shippers; they usually bring up the waving from Kings Cross station or Harry's saving Ginny from the basilisk as signs from God/Jo that H/G was written in the stars.

I'd say our trying to generate shipping context from the Ginny-in-Hermione's-chair thing is giving Rowling way too much credit.

But this, yes --

Ginny in the chair acting uncharacteristically quiet (per Ron) was, in fact, a clue to her difficulties that year and to the mystery for which she is the key. Being in the chair of a victim ties her to the crime; being in Hermione's chair is an obvious reason for Friend!Harry to notice her so the readers can notice her and the clues she embodies.

Yep. I don't think I saw the clue as to Ginny's complicity in Hermione's petrification in the scene (well, is 'clue' is too strong a word? 'vague hint'?) when I first read the book years ago, but it's neat nonetheless, and I appreciate my eyes being opened to it here.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Yeah, let's forget about credit for a moment and debit the cost of the books instead. Oh, if only!

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Huh? You lost me.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Huh? You lost me.

Sorry. I'm in a pun-punchy mood, which tends to generate bad puns. You said, "I'd say our trying to generate shipping context from the Ginny-in-Hermione's-chair thing is giving Rowling way too much credit." Credit is the opposite of debit. To debit is to withdraw money where to credit it is to deposit money. We've deposited or credited quite enough money into the HP slush fund account via buying the books (and therefore debiting our own accounts while crediting Rowling's and the various publishers'), IOW, we've given Rowling credit. IMO, after the disaster that was DH, the very last chance to fix things, we've given too much (financial) credit. Wouldn't it be nice to debit the HP money-making machine, that is, get our money back?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Do you really think Rowling meant for the readers to see Hagrid's double-standards at play here?

Oh, I don't think it's about showing us Hagrid's double standards, but just sort of highlighting that nobody gets sillier about their pets than lovable old Hagrid, you know? Like with the whole Grawp storyline I think JKR did sort of laugh and say yeah, Hagrid really was dopey there bringing a giant back to Hogwarts etc. But of course she still eventually wrote it like he had done something good and that Grawp came to love Hagrid. (Stockholm Syndrome, I guess!)

So I agree--I don't think she's seeing hypocrisy there in Hagrid.

That's one of the horrible things about Rowling's R/Hr, of course. I'm not sure if a pro-canon fan's stance on R/Hr has their true luv starting all the way back to third year or before; I *think* so. Certainly just one year from now they would have one believe that R/Hr is a done deal. Hermione just spends all of these years attracted to Ron and waiting for him to grow up. While fighting with him like cats and dogs and accepting enduring all of these insults.

The whole 'waiting for Ron to grow up thing' doesn't work for me either. It's funny because no matter how much I know that canon says R/Hr were happily married etc. and Lavender proved to just be a bad idea that taught Ron not to go for the unworthy girl, I still always picture Ron and Hermione as divorced in the future and I can totally imagine Ron and Lavender having a perfectly good relationship.

And yeah, if the twins think the only point of the MM was to know the secret passages, they're not the twins we know.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Ah, Hagrid-the-loveable-creature-enthusiast is certainly something I on which I picked up; hard not too, even I got it! I like these chapter reviews for unveiling the things we didn't see the first time around.

I still always picture Ron and Hermione as divorced in the future and I can totally imagine Ron and Lavender having a perfectly good relationship.

I've read several fanfics which have had Ron and Lavender happily married, and yes, I can see that as so much more stable than R/Hr.

The R/Hr fans go on about how Ron and Hermione 'complement' each other, each having strengths the other lacks, that it's a case of 'opposite attract' and so forth, and saying that Ron 'needs' Hermione (and vice versa I think), but I doubt it would work out that way in real life. They're not two jigsaw puzzle pieces which simply lock into place; it's not a case of the two components smoothly interlocking, of shapes convex effortlessly matching those concave. There'll be friction. Damage over time from the constant wear and tear as each has to continually engage and conform with the other. Yes, Ron *needs* guidance, instructions, cajoling, discipline; but he's not going to welcome it. As time goes on he'll resist, even if it is for his own good. As he did his mother's instructions on occasions in the books.

On Hermione's side I'm thinking of the time in HBP when she 'wearily' took on the task of doing/checking Ron's homework. That 'weariness' is a red-light indicator; it's a burden which will grow and magnify the longer she's with Ron Weasley. And it won't be a pearl that results from the irritation.

Lavender, on the other hand, doesn't have any such resistance (or pride) standing in her way; she's *happy* to cater to Ron's needs! She won't 'wearily' service Ron's requirements; she'lll *enjoy* it! And that's what he truly needs. Someone to make him feel important and satisfied.

It's funny how the pro-OBHWF crowd applaud R/Hr for being a 'meeting of opposites', for having 'complementary' attributes, but then turn around and toe Rowling's party line about Ginny being Harry's 'equal', that H/G works because of their common interests - Quidditch, Voldemort, Harry. :-) Switch the tropes around and OBHWF sinks like a stone, both pairings splintering from what we're told held the other together.

Lavender could be to Ron what Ginny was to Harry; a girl who put all the effort into the relationship, seeking her man; a girl who would be subservient to the male. Prune off the over-the-top childishness of Lavender - the 'Won Won' endearment and the necklace - and there's a lot both girls have in common. Both madly jealous of any competition. Both attractive to their partner for their kissing talent. Both girls did all the stalking to snare the boy. H/G supports R/Lavender!!!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Pure speculation on a ship that doesn't exist anymore, of ocurse, but my view of R/Lav was that it wasn't so much that she liked catering to Ron's needs since there wasn't that much he seemed to need from her. I thought it was just that she genuinely seemed to like the guy. She thought Ron was a good quidditch player and went to cheer him on. Hermione expected him to screw up and did something about it without telling him. I think any pretense of her "wearily" doing something isn't what it seems like. I mean, Hermione might be weary of doing things for Ron but she'd like it even less if she wasn't doing things for him. I thought it would be a lot more pleasant for Ron to be with somebody who just thought he was kind of cool rather than Hermione who honestly always seemed to think otherwise. With Hermione it seems more like she sees him as somebody in whom she sees special qualities underneath his ordinary, not special exterior. Lavender seemed to see a guy who was just special.

[sunnyskywalker]

Ron/Lavender didn't look particularly spectacular, but it was better than the way everyone ended up and had the possibility of developing into something better, so yeah. Might have been his best bet. I also think Dean and Seamus would have made better best friends for Ron.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

I think JKR just hates girly girls, like Lavender (suffocating), Cho (emotional), Parvati (giggly), possibly Pansy (clingy), possibly Fleur until she manned up, possibly Umbridge, at least on the surface. She also seems to hate girly boys. It's probably all a holdover from her childhood. Some guys like romantic girls, though, but most certainly not "don't cry around me" Harry. That period of camping with just him and Hermione (overwrought) must have been such fun for him.

Word on Dean and Seamus, but then Ron wouldn't have the chance to nurse his chronic sense of not measuring up. Harry and Hermione give him that opportunity aplenty.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I like to think that that period in GoF when Ron hung around with Seamus and Dean was like a vacation for him. For once he didn't have to subjugate himself to Harry's issues or worry about having no money when both Harry and Hermione were well off. He could just be with a couple of blokes who probably liked a lot of the stuff he did. They probably spent all their time crushing on Viktor Krum and playing with their action figures.