GOF Chapter 3: The Invitation

[oryx_leucoryx]

This is the obligatory Dursley chapter, in which we are treated to the home life of this family and learn how inferior they are to wizard families.

Dudley takes up a whole side of the square kitchen table. Ahem, I doubt a square kitchen table (as opposed to a dining room table) was designed to seat 8 people, 2 on a side. His parents excuse away his teachers' accusations of bullying. As opposed to the Weasleys who never receive reports making such heinous accusations against the twins (we'll see the school does occasionally owl their parents, but I don't see any awareness that some of what the twins do is bullying behavior). (This starts the theme of parents dealing with wayward sons in this book.) Dudley is forced into a diet of fruit and vegetables rather than his favorites. From the descriptions we get of the food Harry eats at Hogwarts I get the feeling Harry's favorites are closer to Dudley's than to the health foods, nor does he limit his intake. But somehow Harry remains thin, regardless of whether he gets starved by Petunia or stuffed by Molly or the House-elves.

Changing the food choices of the entire family is a good thing! However adjusting Harry's serving size to Dudley's (perceived?) emotional needs isn't. I don't begrudge Harry for working around a diet he doesn't need, but then I also sympathize with Dudley who does. Changing eating habits of years is hard.
This is also the place to say Dudley must have grown up as an emotional wreck. Knowing that his parents were capable of such physical and emotional deprivation of someone in their care - what if he ever failed to please them? I think a big part of his misbehavior is both making sure his parents know he *isn't* Harry as well as wanting the reassurance that they still love him, no matter what anyone else thinks.

Of Harry's 4 sources of help only one sends food he appreciates. Odd that even Hagrid managed to send an edible birthday cake. But how edible is it (or any of the others) 3 weeks later?

Harry is surprised that the Weasleys wrote directly to the Dursleys. Vernon is embarrassed that they didn't know how many stamps to use. But really, how hard is it to find out? Didn't they go to the post office to buy the stamps? What does it say about the exchange rate between Galleons and pounds that a family so poor finds it reasonable to spend on so many stamps for one letter? Molly's letter sounds as if she is trying too hard to make the Quidditch World Cup sound special and to make Arthur sound important. And of course she doesn't have enough imagination to realize that sending a letter by owl isn't normal for the Dursleys.

Harry is offended on Molly's behalf when Vernon calls her 'dumpy'. Since Molly likes Harry nobody is allowed to notice she is overweight.

I must say that the scene where Harry threatens Vernon with Sirius looks a lot less humorous now that I have seen Harry enjoy torturing a man for punishment, and Sirius engaging in Muggle-baiting.

If I am correct in my understanding that Ron is claiming that he and Molly wrote their respective letters at about the same time, then I am impressed with the UK post. Molly's letter arrived on Saturday morning. Pig arrived the same morning. Considering the speed of owls elsewhere, it looks as though Ron's letter was sent earlier that morning. So a letter got delivered the morning it was sent?

I am less impressed with the Weasleys. They plan on taking Harry regardless of the Dursleys' consent. One could argue that eventually Molly and Arthur realized their sons were not exaggerating when they said Harry had been imprisoned and starved, but seeing how Arthur views the treatment of Muggles, both in this book and in COS, I doubt this made a difference.

Harry is happy specifically because Dudley is suffering and he isn't. The seeds of the bully of HBP and war criminal of DH.

Comments

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Ah. I see where the source of disagreement here might lie. You're taking 'cheating' in terms of whether or not Harry is following a certain set of rules pertaining specifically to the contest that Slughorn stated, it seems to me. Whereas I and mary are considering it more broadly, in terms of the context of school in general and what is acceptable academic behavior.

You are correct that nowhere in the text does Slughorn say "you aren't allowed to use any recipe but the textbook" or some such thing. But that's not the ground on which we are critiquing Harry as having cheated. The contest is held as part of a lesson, in an academic context. It therefore seems to me obvious that all of the normal academic rules apply to it whether explicitly stated or not. Nothing in the books indicates that the need to be intellectually honest about where one gets information helping with the work one earns grades for (as well as special prizes like in the contest) is so very different in the WW as in ours that claiming that someone else's work is you own isn't considered cheating in that broad sense. It seems to me that their concept of schooling is close enough to ours that doing that would be considered cheating academically. (And going to the library would be cheating in this sense also *if* Hermione did not specify where she got the information she used, but claimed she came up with it herself. THAT is where the difference between this sort of cheating, formally known as plagiarism, as research lies.)

The other key issue that pertains more directly to the contest is the fact that none of the other students have access to the Prince's recipes (because he keeps the book secret instead of saying it's not his own work), whereas they all have access to the information in the library if they want it. That is an unfair advantage on Harry's part specifically in regard to the contest. Consider if your scenario above went all the way to Slughorn asking Harry how he did it: he can't answer honestly without revealing the fact that he had an unfair advantage over everyone else and kept it secret, tilting the playing field in his favor from the start.

He did not keep the playing field even going into the contest, and by the understood rules of every contest I've ever encountered that is certainly cheating even in the narrower sense you mean the term in.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

I agree that Harry's behavior in Potions that year is dishonest, and that his winning the contest involved an unfair advantage.

Harry's use of the Prince's book, over the course of the year, causes Slughorn to think that Harry is brilliant. Harry never explains that his successful brewing is due to having better instructions which he uncritically obeys. That's definitely dishonest.

The contest, though... Harry had an unfair advantage, but I'm not entirely sure it's cheating. Harry has instructions that the rest of the class doesn't have access to in the library, but... none of them is in a position to go to the library at the moment, anyway. What if Hermione had brought along another book on potions with helpful tips -- would that be unfair? She would have done her own work finding that source, but she'd've had an unfair advantage in having access to a source that the other students didn't have time to get from the library during class. Maybe that's fair, maybe it isn't.

What if another student had been handicapped by something like not having gotten a good night's sleep? What if yet another student benefited from being able to afford better-quality ingredients? The students usually do buy at least some of their potions supplies for themselves in Diagon Alley. Or another student is disadvantaged by old scales that are no longer as precise as when they were new?

If the students had known about the contest, they might have prepared, made sure that they were well-rested, etc. An impromptu contest like that is one that's less likely to have an even playing field. Slughorn didn't try to make it a formal contest that would reduce these inequalities.

Admittedly, if I were the one running the class/contest, and I found out about Harry's using the notes, I would probably suggest a rematch for the prize, to avoid too uneven a playing field. Still, I think that Harry *could* have told Slughorn he'd used notes in the textbook he'd been given, and that Slughorn might still have given him the prize. On the other hand, Slughorn might well have taken the book back out of interest in seeing those notes himself, and given Harry a different book.

So, while I don't approve of Harry's behavior that day in class, I wouldn't condemn it *too* strongly. His overall behavior in Potions that year was disgraceful, though.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

The night's sleep and suchlike aren't things that can be controlled by a professor very well, so they generally aren't taken into account. Yes, they do tilt it slightly theoretically.

But with regard to information that is available, theoretically any student who wanted to could have read the books in the library or checked them out at any point beforehand; the Prince's book was *never* available to them. Also, Slughorn could have told Hermione not use whatever book she had theoretically brought with if he wanted; whereas the notes were *in Harry's textbook* - so he wouldn't have seen Harry using another source (to tell him to put it away) and couldn't be put away at all.

Ingredients, scales, etc: such things could be pointed out to the professor if the student desired, opening up the possibility of fairness coming into play by allowing them school equipment of ingredients comparable to others' if they so significantly different as to cause a noticeably different result. Information on the other hand - research that *directly* and *to a significant extent* affected the quality of the potion - can't be compensated for the same way except by it having been available at some point in the past or present to everyone involved.

[cured4life.livejournal.com]

His overall behavior in Potions that year was disgraceful, though.
Isn't that the same behavior Harry's been displaying in Potions though every year?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Well, Harry did try to deceive Severus about various things. I don't know that he was successful with Severus, though.

And Harry wasn't really *rude* to Slughorn, was he? Nah, I don't think it's the *same* disgraceful behavior. ;)

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

You're taking 'cheating' in terms of whether or not Harry is following a certain set of rules pertaining specifically to the contest that Slughorn stated, it seems to me.

Yes. There are no rules against using source material other than the one set textbook. So Harry wasn't cheating within the scope of his potions work. Bot for that Fidelius contest and also his regular classes.

He was dishonest and disingenuous in allowing his teacher to credit him with the praise for his work, though.

The contest is held as part of a lesson, in an academic context. It therefore seems to me obvious that all of the normal academic rules apply to it whether explicitly stated or not. ... Nothing in the books indicates that the need to be intellectually honest about where one gets information helping with the work one earns grades for (as well as special prizes like in the contest) is so very different in the WW as in ours that claiming that someone else's work is you own isn't considered cheating in that broad sense. It seems to me that their concept of schooling is close enough to ours that doing that would be considered cheating academically.

See, this is where we differ in our real-world experience.

If I was doing a mathematics or physics exam at high school or university my exam paper would be marked on the accuracy of my answer. In the case of getting a wrong answer I would be given partial marks depending on my working on how I got there. (I'd also need to clearly show my work in supporting a correct answer too, of course.)

Now, in almost all cases the students will all use the same methodologies to calculate their answers. But not all the time. And it's not required that this should be the case.

This happened to me once or twice; I'd read ahead and use a method, a principle, a theorem that we hadn't yet been taught to arrive at the correct answer. And I'd get the full marks for that correct answer.

At no time did the teacher state, did the exam paper say, "you can use only the methods that you were taught in the last six months in the subject Mathematics 101 and in no other class nor media nor textbook nor ...".

And it seems that simple to me. As is the source of where we differ in our analysis of Harry's situation - "It seems to me that their concept of schooling is close enough to ours .... Well, my 'concept of schooling' - from my direct real life experience - is as per what I've written above. And thus I can state, in the absence of any conflicting canon rules stating otherwise, that Harry did not, technically, cheat.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Using notes in a textbook, even for an open-book test or quiz, is usually considered cheating no matter who put the notes in there. I know that, back when dinosaurs roamed and I was in regular school, we got textbook loaners from the school for every class. Sometimes there would be notes in them. We were cautioned by the teachers not to pay attention to those notes. They may be right but, then, they may not be.

Your example isn't quite the same as the contest. In your example, you looked ahead yourself, you remembered the material yourself, you worked the examples as per instructions, you turned in your paper. If the teacher wanted you to use a particular formula he or she had been teaching in the class, you may have gotten marked down for not using the correct formula but you would still have gotten points for the correct answer (and probably a happy teacher since you showed enough interest to look ahead.)

In the contest, only Harry has extra material that we know of. This isn't something he was interested in enough to look ahead; from what we're given, the regular text probably doesn't ever address the Prince's improvements. Since it could have turned out bad for him - the Prince might have had bogus instructions there or something - I'm inclined to give him a pass just for the contest. Once he saw that these notes were beneficial, though, he should not have continued to use them without citing his source. He could even have gone to Slughorn privately and shown him the book and its notes or just told him that the notes were helpful and that's one reason why he's doing so well. He didn't have to make a grand gesture in front of the class. For all we know, Slughorn might have told him to go ahead and use the notes if they help. But going to Slughorn would have removed the stench of cheating.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I personally think it's cheating, or at least getting pretty darn close to it. If it is or isn't 'technically' cheating by JKR's rules/standards then so be it but it looks very much like cheating to me.

Harry is getting ahead of everyone in a NEWTS level class through no real work of his own. He is copying someone elses research and hard work and taking credit for it and getting praised for it and getting good grades for it, etc.

The point is to learn, apparently Snape (the HBP) took the time to actually do real research and work. He changed and corrected potions, that took time, energy and a dedication that Harry was unwilling to devote to his studies.

Harry's textbook was not like everyone in the class. He got a special copy, giving him special privilages.

It doesn't seem fair to everyone else that Harry through no real work of his own gets to be head of the class - he gains respect and privilage by using another person. This was supposed to be a more advanced class. To me it takes away from everyone elses work in the class to have to compete with someone who really isn't working but is strictly copying another persons advanced research.

To me it's wrong and doesn't generate ethics in a persons character or respect for real work.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

I personally think it's cheating, or at least getting pretty darn close to it. If it is or isn't 'technically' cheating by JKR's rules/standards then so be it but it looks very much like cheating to me.

I think that taken as a whole, that the whole issue with the HBP textbook does constitute cheating.

Using a textbook with someone else's notes in it isn't the problem, per se...college students who buy used books do it all the time.

The issue is then using those notes created by someone else, and not utilizing them for anything other than to pass tests...

If I have a used chemistry textbook that has someone else's notes in it showing that a slight change in the measurement of some ingredients results in a better outcome in an experiment, I'm damn well going to use those notes to get a better result! If my major is in American History and I'm taking the chemistry class just because it's a requirement for graduation, I'm not going to give a damn that I'm actually cheating, I'll thank my lucky stars for getting a windfall in that used textbook, which allows me to instead concentrate on my major.

But if my plans were to become a doctor, pharmacist, or to work for NASA as an expert on interstellar chemistry, then there's a BIG problem with me cheating by using someone else's notes, just as it would be if I had a used biology textbook where the previous owner left sketches of what they'd seen under a microscope, and I passed those in as my own (even if I copied them so that it would look more like I had done it), rather than spending time looking thru a microscope myself.

Yeah, any 16 y.o. is going to think it's wonderful if they end up with a textbook with all the answers in it; I actually don't fault Harry, at least very much, for using the book and not letting Slughorn or anyone in authority know about it.

I do fault him for deciding to use the unknown handwritten spells on another person without having any idea what it would do.

I do fault him for not learning a damn thing from Snape's notes! If even once during The Endless Camping Trip in DH Harry had remembered something Snape had written in the HBP Potions textbook and had said, "Oh, I remember something from that book that will be useful here!", then I'd actually cut him some slack.

But Harry doesn't even know how to heal a paper cut...and he wants to be (and according to Rowling, does go on to become) an Auror, where a thorough knowledge of Potions is necessary! :-P

So yeah, using the HBP textbook was cheating, especially since it was a NEWT-level class; Harry does not learn anything of any depth from Snape's notes, and only uses the book to make it easier to pass tests.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I know that, back when dinosaurs roamed and I was in regular school, we got textbook loaners from the school for every class. Sometimes there would be notes in them. We were cautioned by the teachers not to pay attention to those notes.

That's totally different from my own schooling, nothing was ever said along those lines.

And in any case, what does it matter? Because --

They may be right but, then, they may not be.

And if you use the notes you takes your chances. Harry took a chance and it paid off for him; the notes were correct.

If the teacher wanted you to use a particular formula he or she had been teaching in the class ...

Then I would be 'cheating' if I used another.

But Slughorn says nothing like this, he has no such rule. In fact he takes pleasure in noting Harry's (the Prince's) additions to the textbook procedure. You see? Slughorn *acknowledges* that Harry's using 'non-standard' practices, but he's still graded top marks. I.e. he is not 'cheating'!

But going to Slughorn would have removed the stench of cheating.

The 'stench' is that of Harry accepting praise, allowing Slughorn to think that he's a Potions genius. Naughty Harry. But he's still brewing good potions ... so he should still get good marks.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Whether Harry was cheating or not, the important thing was that he wasn't actually learning - he couldn't work at that level on his own, he didn't understand why the Prince modified the potions the way he did. That he got better grades than his true knowledge allows isn't all that important in the long run, because internal Hogwarts grades count for nothing, only OWLs and NEWTs count outside Hogwarts (well, and ties and reputation etc). At an exam setting he wouldn't be able to use the Prince's work.

Of course Harry supposedly got invited to join the Aurors despite not having NEWT-level knowledge in most of the required subjects. I think his experience should count towards the DADA NEWT, but his knowledge in the other subjects remained 6th year level for most of them and 5th year level for Potions.

Ron is ahead of him - the Transfigured ghoul could count as a NEWT-level Transfiguration project. But most of the Charms and Transfiguration work the trio needed that year was done by Hermione. As well as any theoretical knowledge they needed.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Whether Harry was cheating or not, the important thing was that he wasn't actually learning - he couldn't work at that level on his own, he didn't understand why the Prince modified the potions the way he did. That he got better grades than his true knowledge allows isn't all that important in the long run, because internal Hogwarts grades count for nothing, only OWLs and NEWTs count outside Hogwarts (well, and ties and reputation etc). At an exam setting he wouldn't be able to use the Prince's work.

I totally agree. The discussion/topic to date in this thread has been about whether Harry was technically 'cheating' in his sixth year Potions class. If we put that issue aside then it's as you say above.

Of course Harry supposedly got invited to join the Aurors despite not having NEWT-level knowledge in most of the required subjects. I think his experience should count towards the DADA NEWT --

Yes, he was appointed to the aurors because he knows the Expelliarmus spell really reallly REALLY well ... *snort*

Ron is ahead of him - the Transfigured ghoul could count as a NEWT-level Transfiguration project.

Interesting; I always thought that the ghoul masquerade was a bit of a farce. And how good did it have to be if the impersonation was based on the hope that no-one would dare approach it?

I was going to finish with a joke along the lines of if the ghoul's transfiguration was REALLY important then Hermione would have done it! but then I noticed that the canon doesn't attribute the transfiguration to Ron:

"And your mum and dad are in on this plan?" asked Harry.

"Dad is. He helped Fred and George transform the ghoul. ..."

[oryx_leucoryx]

So Ron had no part in the ghoul project except possibly as a model? OK, he is down to DADA only as well.

I'm willing to accept Hermione did NEWT-level work in DADA (fighting, campsite defenses, researching Horcruxes and how to destroy them, memory charms), Charms (all they needed for daily living, that TARDIS bag of hers) and Transfiguration (disguises of the boys for the Gringotts break-in, transfiguration of food to make it edible). She may have at least theoretical knowledge of the 7th year curriculum of her other subjects. But of course she is the one who completes her education and sits exams properly rather than coast on fame.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Yes, he was appointed to the aurors because he knows the Expelliarmus spell really reallly REALLY well ... *snort*


Well, I have a relevant RL example. When I was about 11 I took Judo. Got to participate in some local competitions - nothing great, just kids from several clubs in town. In one of the other clubs there was this kid who perfected the use of the most basic throw, the first one that is taught. He managed to beat kids who were formally more advanced than him while using this one throw all the time - because he knew how to do it from any position, on any size of opponent etc.

If Harry can disarm any would-be attacker before he gets hit by a spell it doesn't matter what advanced spell his attacker was going to send his way. Unless of course, the attacker has more than one wand.

Harry is also good at Shield Charms and stunning, and I bet he finally learned Finite to end spells he may have been hit with. Though he sucks at non-verbal spells.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Argh!! He is *plagiarizing*!!! Does that word make you happier than 'cheating'?! If you plucked a former students essay from the internet, printed it out and handed it in, claiming it as your own work, you'd be *plagiarizing*, which is considered *cheating* in the academic world, and any school or university would *expell* you for it!!

I think that one of the reasons why some people don't see Harry's use of the Prince's book as plagiarizing is that plagiarism is usually discussed in the context of papers.

And writing papers isn't like brewing potions.

With papers, there's no such thing as following a formula verbatim, *just* following instructions, and getting anything acceptable (unless you plagiarize). There's *always* something original about a (non-plagiarized) paper.

That isn't true of brewing potions, though. Admittedly, in the NEWT class it appears that the students are encouraged to go further than following instructions, but Potions class isn't all about being original. For years, Potions class was about following directions in order to produce an expected result, and that was a useful, desirable thing to do. It's worth something, in class and in the outside world, to be able to follow directions ploddingly and produce potions that work.

There's nothing like that when it comes to writing, unless you're talking about photocopiers. There's no skill to writing letters on paper -- not for teenagers, anyway; we aren't talking about calligraphy. In Potions, there is a skill to even following directions. Harry did a lousy job of following directions well for years.

Even in the NEWT class, originality isn't *demanded*, although it's applauded. Hermione isn't original, and Slughorn approves of her work.

So, I don't think that the "copied paper" metaphor is helping, here.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

To follow up on that:

I don't think that Harry, in that first class, is necessarily thinking about taking credit for a different process, just the actual production of the potion. That's what he's used to in previous years of Potions.

At the end of class, though, Slughorn attributes Harry's superb potion to natural talent. Well, Harry might take that as just a random comment, that day. It becomes clear, though, that Slughorn *is* taking Harry's good results as being all about Harry's talent, and not about different instructions, or even honest research.

Harry was absolutely honor-bound to correct Slughorn's misunderstanding the moment he realized that Slughorn misunderstood the situation. In that very first class, though... (shrug) He still should have said something, but he was presumably in the mindset he'd been in for years, where independent thought wasn't expected in brewing. Slughorn didn't suggest that anyone think for themselves, either, so he didn't do anything to indicate that expectations had changed. The contest that first day makes this more of an issue, but I find Harry's behavior more excusable that day than later, despite it.

Although... if you can find a place in the first five books where independent thought *is* expected in Potions, I will have to seriously reconsider all of this.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Lynn Waterfall has very nicely articulated much of what I was going to say. Your 'essay' analogy isn't a good mapping to what the students do much/most of their time in Hogwarts Potions classes.

If Slughorn said "write a paper" and Harry quoted the Prince's notes verbatim without attributing the source then that would be out-and-out cheating. His grade would be measured on the required output - the paper - which would be literally the Prince's work.

But brewing potions is quite different from that. It's a practical exercise. The students aren't graded on papers, or instructions on how to brew potions, or their knowledge of theory. No, it's a practical test/subject and they submit their brewed potions for grading. As Lynn Waterfall has said, much of that - almost all, in my opinion from reading the books - is "following directions in order to produce an expected result", to quote Lynn.

I see Potions as something like the woodwork subject I took at High School. I did very badly at that. :-( But if I'd picked up some notes on how to saw wood better, make joints smoother, etc, then it would follow that my grade would have improved ... because we were scored on the quality of the tangible end result. The teachers would NEVER had said "oh, Brad, sorry, I saw you using a technique to saw the plank which I didn't teach you, so I'll dock you points".

Look at it another way, by virtue of a little thought experiment. If Hermione had come up with a textbook from the library which had superior instructions, and used it in her brewing, would she have been graded better? My gut feel, from the canon, is "of course!". Because there was nothing ever mentioned constraining students against bringing in other material. In fact, we're often told of Hermione's industry in library research across the board.

And, again, Slughorn is actively PRAISING Harry for bringing in outside techniques. So doing such is most definitely not 'against the rules'.

And so it's not cheating.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I know some are saying it was not cheating, and we're having to go into a different use of words to play around with it. But lets consider this:

I really don't think Slughorn, McGonagall, Dumbledore would have let Harry keep the book if he had shown it to them - thats the issue. IF it was so right and so okay for him to have the book and it was not cheating then why wasn't Harry showing it to the adults? Why wasn't he sharing it with other students? Why was the Prince's book on lockdown for only a select few friends to know about it?

Everyone who doesn't agree that it was a form of cheating should ask why Harry was keeping it hidden. WHY when Snape asked for the book, why didn't Harry present it to him? If it was so right and okay for him to use it, and it was not 'cheating' at Hogwarts then why was he ashamed to show it off to the adults and had to go hide it when it finally came time to give it up?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

The 'stench' is that of Harry accepting praise, allowing Slughorn to think that he's a Potions genius. Naughty Harry. But he's still brewing good potions ... so he should still get good marks.

He's getting good marks based on someone else's work -- I'd define that as cheating.

It bothers me that he utilize'd the HBP's corrected potions and didn't say anything -- he presented the final product to Slughorn as if he'd followed the uncorrected textbook recipe, which was dishonest.

I'm even more bothered that Harry didn't give a second thought to the new potions/curses/hexes the HBP had invented -- Harry had no way of knowing if the HBP himself had ever actually tried those creations in real life, or whether they were basically mental doodles that were purely intellectual exercises. Harry just decided that they were perfectly okay to use because he'd gotten good results with the HBP's corrected textbook recipes.

But the worst of it was, Harry never learned anything from the HBP's notes; it's not like he gained any greater understanding of potions from copying the HBP's work. He just lucked out in getting a book that contained the notes of someone else's work, that enabled Harry to get better grades. But he didn't become better at potions because of it.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

He's getting good marks based on someone else's work -- I'd define that as cheating.

I think your definition applies more to academic endeavours such as exams or written papers rather than 'practicals' like brewing potions; as has been discussed elsewhere here.

It bothers me that he utilize'd the HBP's corrected potions and didn't say anything -- he presented the final product to Slughorn as if he'd followed the uncorrected textbook recipe, which was dishonest.

But that's plainly not correct. Slughorn's on record as praising Harry for innovations such as adding extra ingredients; so clearly it's NOT a rule that the 'uncorrected textbook recipe' must be followed stringently.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

He's getting good marks based on someone else's work --

All of the students were brewing potions based on the instructions of others.

-- he presented the final product to Slughorn as if he'd followed the uncorrected textbook recipe, which was dishonest.

But that simply isn't true. Slughorn notes himself on at least one occasion during the year that Harry is NOT "following the uncorrected textbook". And he *praises* Harry for this!

But the worst of it was, Harry never learned anything from the HBP's notes; it's not like he gained any greater understanding of potions from copying the HBP's work. He just lucked out in getting a book that contained the notes of someone else's work, that enabled Harry to get better grades. But he didn't become better at potions because of it.

Agreed. But I dare say he wouldn't have learned much from the regular text either. I'm sure Gamps Law was detailed in the 'official' textbook - Hermione rattled it off - but Harry didn't know it from a bar of soap.

[cured4life.livejournal.com]

Along those lines then plagiarism is okay if a teacher doesn't specifically tell the class not to plagiarize. And if the teacher is not familiar with who initially created the work, the student gets the good marks.

I just see Harry's efforts as along those lines.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Sometimes there would be notes in them. We were cautioned by the teachers not to pay attention to those notes. They may be right but, then, they may not be.


Heh, the notes in my textbooks were usually insults at teachers. Some of whom were still teaching.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I got more doodles than anything and the usual hearts with initials or some graffiti-style writing practice. A few students got actual comments on the text. I did get a couple of books where students tried out answers to the questions, though.