GOF Chapter 5: Weasleys' Wizard Wheezes

[oryx_leucoryx]

Fred is excited at the thought of Dudley eating deadly candy. Oh, *untested* deadly candy, that's even better!
Harry takes an instinctive liking to Charlie because everything in his appearance says 'physical, uncomplicated'. Bill is more of a surprise - you can be a Head Boy *and* 'cool'. (Just like your dad, Harry. Now you don't have to worry he was anything like Percy, in case you ever were.) How does Harry know what people who attend rock concerts look like? Probably from TV.

Yes Arthur, pranking Muggles in life-endangering ways without doing the responsible thing and mind-wiping them in the aftermath undermines wizard-Muggles relations. Unlike, say, taking their magical kids and turning them against their parents.

The Dursleys excuse away Dudley's misdeeds. Arthur is a much superior parent - he doesn't let his wife know about the twins' (or at least tries to avoid letting her know). It does seem as though Hermione caught on quickly and tried to do her bit of protecting the twins from Molly.

This is Hermione's first stay at the Burrow - and she is here even before Harry, who has been here before and who might need 'rescuing' from his home. I wonder how long Hermione was there before Harry's arrival. Nevertheless, this was the last summer she will spend any significant time with her parents. And she will only spend Christmas of 6th year with them because of the Ron/Lavender relationship. To remind you, Hermione will turn 15 next month - an emancipated minor for all intent  and purpose.

For the first time in canon, Ginny isn't at all awkward around Harry. Despite not having started dating any other boys yet. (Or has she and we weren't told? We don't know when she and Hermione had their little talk.)

I'm supposed to think Percy is a pompous, ambitious idiot for taking work home and caring about it. Being an adult I see Percy as acting normally and Ron being an immature idiot. BTW after seeing Neville's molten cauldrons can't Ron appreciate looking into safety standards? (No, because danger everywhere is what makes life worth living for most Gryffindors.)

Why are Bill and Charlie staying in the twins' room? In later books (HBP and DH) Bill will suddenly have his own room, which he will also share with Charlie. See www.hplex.info/wizworld/places/w_pl_burrow.html. Did Molly and Arthur decide to add rooms (on the lower floors!) after their sons started leaving home?

Ron is annoyed by his owl. This is typical of Ron - he laments not having things, and when he does he laments them again, even when they aren't obviously unsuitable or in bad shape or taste.

Ron makes a homophobic wisecrack at Percy and his boss. BTW according to the Black Family Tree, it appears Bartemius Crouch Sr is Arthur's first cousin. This together with his outward personality and his position all make him an ideal surrogate father to Percy. (Which starts the theme of disappointed sons in this book.)

Ginny is still an outsider to the trio's adventures - as far as Harry knows. Neither of them had openly shared their involvement with Sirius' escape. (BTW Harry still hasn't questioned if perhaps Albus was a tad responsible for there not being more people aware of what Sirius was or wasn't guilty of.)

Crookshanks was one of the heroes of last year's adventure - sniffing Peter out in his rat disguise, communicating with Sirius, sending messages by post. This year he's just a cat who chases gnomes.

Molly rants about the twins. She blames them of lacking ambition. No Molly, they are more ambitious than anyone in the family. It's just that their ambition is to make a lot of money fast, while causing as much property destruction and humiliation to those around their customers as possible, instead of doing well at school and getting a government job. Oh, Molly did receive the occasional owl from the school about the twins. Though I do wonder if Albus or Minerva framed their actions as bullying the way Dudley's teachers apparently described his stunts. Also, Molly mistakes a twin-made fake wand for her own, thus starting the emphasis on wands in this book. (There will also be emphasis on wands in DH, but everything will work completely differently, despite Rowling's claims about planning and plotting. You have been warned.)

There was a time I found Bill and Charlie's table-duel endearing. By now I have had enough of Gryffindor boisterous behavior.

Even Bill joins those who dis Percy. Because while he works for a bank, his job description is robbing graves, which is much better than working in an office regulating international commercial transactions.

I love Percy's earnestness and enthusiastic attitude. His criticism of Bagman is on relevant points - organizing the Quidditch World Cup sounds like something that should have fallen mostly on a department dedicated to Magical Games and Sports (an entire department for that? not a subdivision of a Department for Cultural Affairs or similar? Tells you everything about wizards and their priorities), and an employee going missing for 'over a month' in a place known to be the location of Voldemort in whatever form he was isn't something to ignore. But to Arthur what matters is that by covering up illegal activities of Ludo's brother he got tickets to the Top Box, so he won't be hearing criticism of his friend. Who had bribed him. However having grown up in the Weasley household I think this goes over even Percy's head. Understandably but tragically Percy interprets Bartemius' concern for Bertha's whereabouts as that of a caring boss for a former underling. Of course he is actually concerned because she had subconscious information that might be of use to Voldemort (as well as cause much trouble to Crouch himself if revealed to the public). It has been several years since Bertha became brain damaged. Since Harry forgot all about his dream the mention of her name rings no bells.

Ginny defends Bill's hairstyle to Molly. Showing us that despite lack of awkwardness around Harry this is still her first personality, whose favorite brother was Bill. Next year we'll see Ginny v 2.0 whose role models are the twins.

The Quidditch chatter reveals that like in football (soccer for USians), Britain has separate 'national' teams for England, Scotland and Wales. But all three lost at some point.

Harry confirms - the letter about his scar hurting was the first he sent to Sirius, after receiving 2 from him in addition to the letter he got at the end of POA. Sirius 3, Harry 1. Even with people who are close to him he is more of a taker than a giver.

The twins sent Percy dragon dung in the mail, how hilarious! How kind, how mature.

Comments

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

No no, I told them, don't you see how upset it made her? It was very brave of her to do something so drastic to keep them safe.

In the book, no; it didn't feel that way to me, the way it read to me was it came across as an afterthought; oh by the way my parents are taken care of, etc. Liking putting unwanted dogs in the pound, etc.

I think it's largely because the Drs Granger never really had any identity in the first place

Exactly. We the reader were never supposed to think of them as important. They were there to play in the background, fill the hole to explain that Hermione was a muggleborn. There was no emotional depth there to connect us the reader with her parents. We hardly ever got it from Hermione so why should the reader care either.

A lot of writers can make you feel things for characters you never see by how the main character displays emotions and talks about the character. Hermione hardly ever mentions her parents, this is a flaw that takes the depth away from the character and the background characters.

The problem is, none of the main characters seem to really give a damn about Hermione's muggle parents. Oh look, the funny muggles, and Hermione in the book seems to end up having the same opinion.

In the movie I have heard they are giving some airtime to show Hermione and the parental memory removal. I haven't seen it so I can't say for sure what they do, but it makes you wonder.

Why would they spend time in the movie on this or perhaps to word it more appropriately why would the movie spend time on this when JKR didn't? Unless the movie people think like some of us do. Maybe they've read what some fans have written. The book version seems pretty shallow, cold and empty.

The movies have totally taken out and exempted certain important things in canon. They've also changed stuff as well. So what would make them spend time to show this tiny bit of information when in other instances they've left way more important information out?

Are they attempting to give the characters debth that we did not see in book?

Imagine the impact if the trio found themselves having to obliviate Hagrid, Prof. McGonagall or the Weasleys, for example.

I've made this same statement in reference to when Snape was bleeding to death in the shack. If it had been Ron laying there or anyone else they would have done everything they could to save that person. Instead you basicly have Hermione, Harry watching snape die, while Ron just stands aside looking like a puppet with strings cut. Ron does nothing in that scene.

Okay, so maybe there was no hope but that doesn't explain their inaction because a few chapters earlier you have Ron and Harry trying to save Peter when the silver hand was choking him.

I think part of the problem I have with the memory alteration of Hermione's parents is it shows an act of taking someones will away from them. And this is a good character? The choice by the author seems to be because it's a 'good' character it's okay and we the reader will accept it.

The bad guys can use the same excuse, they believe what they are doing is correct and right for them. So how exactly is Hermione any different than the evil she is fighting against. If Hermione was in charge one day then apparently it would be perfectly acceptable to mind wipe people you're supposed to love as long as you 'believe' you are protecting them.

My moral outrage meter jumps off the charts with that mentality.

I think that if there had been some sort of struggle emotionally from the main character, or if it had been given more than lip service and a passing thought, I might have been able to agree that it was Hermione acting responsibly. But since we're not really given the emotional connection through Hermione to her parents - it just comes across as void and inhuman.

I get that it was supposed to be for their own good but in my case I would have liked to have seen a more realistic portrait of a only female child who is about to possibly loose her parents and never see them again.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I think part of the problem I have with the memory alteration of Hermione's parents is it shows an act of taking someones will away from them. And this is a good character? The choice by the author seems to be because it's a 'good' character it's okay and we the reader will accept it.

The bad guys can use the same excuse, they believe what they are doing is correct and right for them. So how exactly is Hermione any different than the evil she is fighting against. If Hermione was in charge one day then apparently it would be perfectly acceptable to mind wipe people you're supposed to love as long as you 'believe' you are protecting them.

This exactly. In some ways it reminds me of the rationale used by American slave owners in the 19th century- "We're just being their benevolent overseer/parental figure since they're obviously too stupid to make their own decisions!"

I've also had rabid HP fans get angry with me for saying this for the same reason another poster above admitted to. (it's ok- I appreciate their honesty) And then somebody got upset for my referring to it as mind-raping, despite the fact that by definition that's what obviating is.

I think that some people forget that in the HP universe all of us would just be stupid, ignorant muggles, scorned by the "good guys" and murdered callously by the bad. People talk about how HP deals with real prejudice, and it does, but not with the poor, innocent muggle-born who is subjected to the discrimination of one kid making fun of them or the tacked-on nazi symbolism of the last book, but by the institutionalized prejudice against most of the people on earth. Seriously, the most satisfying ending to the series for me would be to have the muggle RAF (who has known about them the entire time due to superior intelligence but has found it convenient to play dumb) drop a couple of old-school, non-electronic bombs on Voldemort's hideout from higher up than their anti-technology field will reach. And then possibly do the same to Hogwarts, thus eliminating a major threat to British muggles everywhere. The irony, it would be sweet.

I am a terrible person.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Crap, that was not meant to be in all italics.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

In some ways it reminds me of the rationale used by American slave owners in the 19th century- "We're just being their benevolent overseer/parental figure since they're obviously too stupid to make their own decisions!"

They also used the rationale that they brought Christianity to the pagan Africans whom they made slaves, so that made it all okay... :-/

And then somebody got upset for my referring to it as mind-raping, despite the fact that by definition that's what obviating is.

The TV show Torchwood had a similar subtheme: if an outsider found out too much --or in the case of one Torchwood employee, they habitually spilled their guts out to a sympathetic stranger in a bar -- they had a pill they gave the person that wiped out their memories for the previous 48 hours or so. In one episodes the Torchwood staff themselves had to all take the pill to their own memories of something that had just occurred.

At the beginning of the series the memory pill was presented as "Oh, just give them the pill to make them forget!"...but subsequent episodes showed that while wiping someone's memory was an "easy out", there were moral and ethical repercussions. By the time of the episode where they had to wipe their own collective memories, it was shown that having your memory wiped is really a drastic, hurtful, and traumatic event.

Seriously, the most satisfying ending to the series for me would be to have the muggle RAF (who has known about them the entire time due to superior intelligence but has found it convenient to play dumb) drop a couple of old-school, non-electronic bombs on Voldemort's hideout from higher up than their anti-technology field will reach.

Did Voldemort have anti-technology fields around wherever he was staying? I know that Rowling stated that Hogwarts had some sort of spell that made the use of electricity and electronic devices impossible, but did she make that claim for any other site?

I think Voldemort was so contemptuous of Muggles that the thought of putting up some sort of barrier to prevent Muggle technology would have been laughable to him.

I've asked the question before that even with whatever magik Dumbledore put on/around Hogwarts, would that have stopped a Muggle spy satellite for taking photographs of it? It seems to me that for any "anti-technology" spell to work, the person casting the spell would have to understand said technology, and something tells me that Dumbledore may have understood electric lamps, hard-wired telephones, and manual cameras. I seriously doubt that he had more than superficial knowledge, if any, and least of all understanding of, more modern technology like space satellites, cellphones, WiFi, digital cameras, thermal-imaging cameras, infrared cameras, night-vision devices...

The internal-combustion engine of the Weasley car didn't seem to have any problem on Hogwarts property...

Something tells me that for all their "anti-technology" charms, nothing would have stopped a spy satellite from getting an exact bead on any magikal site, and using GPS any Muggle agency could wipe said site out with a "smart" nuclear device.

Just sayin'....

;-)

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Something tells me that for all their "anti-technology" charms, nothing would have stopped a spy satellite from getting an exact bead on any magikal site, and using GPS any Muggle agency could wipe said site out with a "smart" nuclear device.

Ah, but Rowling is FAR too in love with her setting to admit this, however satisfying it might be.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Yes indeed. A muggle will see only a ruin where a wizard will see a castle. But a camera is neither. It ought to show what is actually there. Unless you try to argue that the spells are so powerful that a muggle will see only a photograph of a ruin. And, excuse me, but I don't believe that.

Now I have seen arguments that spells interfere with electronic transmissions (for that matter, I theorized that they interfere because both use the same frequencies and consequently they are fighting for the same bandwidth) and that consequently areas rendered unplotable would be unphotographable as well, at least by digital cameras, resulting in known anomolies in the muggle reference materials i.e. the "Wiltshire blob" or the "Scots blur", or whatever. But how did that work back when survey cameras were film cameras? Because there have *been* aerial photo surveys since the first half of the 20th century.

[oryx_leucoryx]

And we know Colin's Muggle camera worked at Hogwarts.

Camera

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

I bet JKR has already forgotten that she included that detail in the texts. She never rereads anything, remember?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Now I have seen arguments that spells interfere with electronic transmissions (for that matter, I theorized that they interfere because both use the same frequencies and consequently they are fighting for the same bandwidth)

The problem with that theory is that magikal spells would have to be using all bands, includia radio (short, long, and medium waves)/radar, sonar, microwave, infrared, ultraviolet...

I just don't buy it. Of course we're dealing with Jo I-Can't-Be-Bothered-With-Real-Science Rowling here, but even if for the sake of argument we postulate that magikal spells do utilize all bandwidths, then when Muggle society started using more and more of those same bandwidths, there should have been competition for the limited "airwaves"...

IOW, it should be a two-way street. If spells can interfere with electronic transmissions, then electronic transmissions should also be able to interfere with spells.

It may not be so much of a problem at Hogwarts, being in a remote, rural area...but it seems to me that the Ministry building should be effected by all the electronic transmissons in and around London.

Because there have *been* aerial photo surveys since the first half of the 20th century.

Well I guess Rowling would argue that it would work the same way with pilots, that they would only see ruins and not take pictures. Of course that ignores pilots who were just taking aerial surveys for topographical/mapping purposes, and so would have just flown a grid pattern over a certain area.

Rowling would probably then argue that the cloaking spell worked for a certain distance over Hogwarts in addition to surrounding it on the ground. But then the question is, just how far up does this cloaking go? A couple of hundred feet? A couple of thousand? To the edge of the earth's atmosphere?

Surely she can't expect us to believe the spell works for thousands of miles into outer space? (But being Jo I-Can't-Be-Bothered-With-Real-Science Rowling, maybe she does) Maybe a pilot of a plane wouldn't be able to see Hogwarts, maybe a manual camera wouldn't be able to capture its image (perhaps resulting in fogged film), but I can't accept the premise that a spy satellite with a high-def digital camera couldn't take pictures of it.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Well, for that matter, while actually *at Hogwarts* all the ambiant magic would have to do would be to interfere with electronic devices drawing power from their batteries. Away from an area like Hogwarts where there is no installed electrical wiring, no transmitors, and a lot of ambient magic, it would be a lot less cut and dried.

We've never heard that living next to a wizard interferes with one's television reception, or access to the internet. Indeed, about the most Rowling has ever claimed is that electronic devices don't work *at Hogwarts*.

They may be a bit dicy in Diagon Alley as well, although perhaps not. Diagon Alley, unlike Hogwarts, is surrounded by installed transmitters of various kinds and despite having a high level of ambient magic it ought not to be that difficult for a device inside its bounds to find a signal, so the real question is whether the magic levels are high enough to interfere with drawing power from the batteries there. And I suspect that the issue really does come down to battery-operated devices.

After all, it stands to reason that there must be Muggle businesses and residences in use right on the other side of the wall from the perimeter of the wizarding enclave, and if the mere proximity to magic is enough to interfere with actual *wiring* one would expect that someone would have mentioned it. And it would be a concern since sooner or later someone would be bound to go looking for *why* the wiring is so dicy in that part of town.

We have no idea as to what the typical result of a wizarding household moving into a muggle structure with functioning electrical wiring would be. #12 Grimauld Place is almost certainly from the era where the default would have been gaslight, and electricity doesn't sound like anything the Blacks would have bothered to have added on. Spinners End also was probably built at a time when heat was coal and light was kerosine (or parafin, acto the Brits). We simply do not know any wizards who come from a mixed enough background to try to have it both ways. It may be perfectly viable if you aren't trying to run on battery power.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Well, for that matter, while actually *at Hogwarts* all the ambiant magic would have to do would be to interfere with electronic devices drawing power from their batteries.

Perhaps, but then Jo has some 'splainin' to do regarding the Weasley's Ford Anglia...not only the internal combustion engine operated on Hogwarts grounds, but it's electrical system, too (indeed the engine would be worthless without the electrical system).

Of course Jo I-Have-Never-Driven-A-Car Rowling wouldn't consider that automobiles have a battery and an electrical system.

Spinners End also was probably built at a time when heat was coal and light was kerosine (or parafin, acto the Brits).

My own admitted prejudice, based on such places here in New England, is that "mill town" residences of the type described would have had electricity, since most of them were built circa 1900-1920. Even older residences were wired for electricity by the 1920s and 30s, and since Snape's father was a Muggle, I don't see why he wouldn't have had a house with electricity, and perhaps a gas stove (cooker).

Rowling doesn't really give us much to go on, but in the HBP movie, the Spinner's End scene shows us a glimpse of a kitchen that looks mid-20th century modern, perhaps dating from between the 50s to the 70s. I think electrical outlets can also be seen in the kitchen.

It was in a Muggle neighborhood, and there was no reason for Eileen to put spells on it to prevent the use of technology, so Spinner's End probably can't be used as a valid example.

We simply do not know any wizards who come from a mixed enough background to try to have it both ways. It may be perfectly viable if you aren't trying to run on battery power.

So what happens when a wizard or witch marries a Muggle? Does the non-magikal person just joyfully give up all the modern technological conveniences that they are accustomed to?

MUGGLE BOY TO WITCH GIRLFRIEND: Yeah, that's kewl that you can just say "Luminos" and your wand tip glows...but look at this new gigantic flatscreen I got! Wii will be AWESOME on it! Look how I can tweet about what I'm doing on my new iPhone! Look at how many friends I have on Facebook! What? You say I'll have to give this up if we get married?.......See ya around, sweetheart!

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Rowling would probably then argue


I pretty much know what the authors answer would be for magically hiding stuff from old and new technology.

JKR, like an Iphone would just proclaim - We have an APP for that.

Just replace APP with the word spell. =p


Besides, if muggles see ruins doesn't that make them want to take more pictures???? To me that would invite people to want to look, instead of making them less curious about the place.

To me it would have been better to say it was a waste water treatement plant. To me that would have kept curious people away and kept anyone from wanting to investigate. But a old ruined castle? All kinds of people would be interested in looking and photographing that.

I guess the muggles who are adventurest enough get their memories erased if they trespass.

[600ants.livejournal.com]

Well I guess Rowling would argue that it would work the same way with pilots, that they would only see ruins and not take pictures.

Wait, she actually said that Muggles see Hogwarts as a ruin and therefore just don't care about it? The stupid, stupid... woman. Even with authorities such as the land office (who generally like to know about all buildings in their assigned district) put aside, if there is a ruin of a castle anywhere, it's bound to be frequented by local kids, random tourists, amateur archaeologists etc. Besides, Hogwarts is not just the castle – it's a large area with a lake, a stadium, a village and a forrest – how is the Forbidden Forrest prevented from being entered by Muggles? And how is it possible to hide a railway from London to Scotland? And even if Muggles really couldn't see any of this, what prevents them from hearing the noise the wizards produce?

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

People talk about how HP deals with real prejudice, and it does, but not with the poor, innocent muggle-born who is subjected to the discrimination of one kid making fun of them or the tacked-on nazi symbolism of the last book, but by the institutionalized prejudice against most of the people on earth

YES. I made that point myself and got bashed so hard for it. 'OMG, did you actually read the books? Did you not see Draco call her mudblood? How about the people trying to kill her and other Muggle-borns in DH?'

Er...Draco has nothing to say against her for a WHOLE YEAR, so obviously he's not ruled by racism. It's only when she outperforms him and he gets in trouble with his father for disappointing him that Draco pays any attention to her. Mudblood isn't a nice word, by any means, not defending that, but it's a boy whose dignity's been wounded trying to get a rise out of her. If he thought it'd hurt more, he'd make fun of her hair or her weight or anything else.

Anyway, so one kid calls her one mean word, what, three times throughout the whole series? Yeah, what discrimination she's facing.

And DH hardly counts- that's the terrorists winning and taking over the ministry, it's hardly the attitude of society at large. With the racism against blacks or jews, that was something a LOT of people supported and approved of, and the laws persecuting them were upheld in a society that HADN'T been at war and taken over by the extremists.

Besides, the baddies were also trying to capture/kill Harry, a half-blood, and Ron, a pureblood.

[https://me.yahoo.com/a/gNLVidA.xeLuPiOU_2B_USM.HYNFjA--#b0b6b (from livejournal.com)]

And DH hardly counts- that's the terrorists winning and taking over the ministry, it's hardly the attitude of society at large. With the racism against blacks or jews, that was something a LOT of people supported and approved of, and the laws persecuting them were upheld in a society that HADN'T been at war and taken over by the extremists.

I was inclined to think the opposite, actually. The Death Eaters' takeover of the Ministry was so swiftly done and swiftly accepted that it seemed to me that either a) wizarding government is the oligarchic kind and everyone just has to accept what's handed down from above or b) they have a democratic model. Everyone was OK with rounding up the Muggle-borns - no-one from "the opposition" spoke against the idea, there were no rallies in the street - it must have passed through all levels of government without a hitch.

I thought the second option was the right one, because I figured the wizarding world was meant to be organised like ours. I figured that if the regime change could happen so easily, it wasn't much of a change at all. That would make an interesting challenge for Harry, I thought, because it would mean the evil he was fighting against was not just a guy called Voldemort and his minions, but an idea that had poisoned the minds of wizarding society as a whole. That would mean his task wasn't just to kill the bad guy, but to reach out to people, argue with them, educate them, show them new possibilities of healing and hope like great leaders do.

Come the last page of the book, and it turned out that nope, wizarding society is just a troupe of puppets waiting for the right Minister to jerk their strings. While Fudge the naive sceptic was in charge, the wizarding world was naive and sceptical. Under Thicknesse, slave to Voldemort's will, everyone else was also a slave to Voldemort's will. Then Kingsley the nice guy became the Minister, therefore the instant he got the job everything became nice again.
So basically, it isn't that the leader is chosen by the people (from all we've seen, he/she isn't), it's that he/she imposes him/herself on the people. You'd think that Hermione at least might have brought up that this model of government has some major flaws and will very likely lead to disaster again - but then again, I'm sure she rather believes that everything must be fine with her and her cronies in charge.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I was inclined to think the opposite, actually. The Death Eaters' takeover of the Ministry was so swiftly done and swiftly accepted that it seemed to me that either a) wizarding government is the oligarchic kind and everyone just has to accept what's handed down from above or b) they have a democratic model. Everyone was OK with rounding up the Muggle-borns - no-one from "the opposition" spoke against the idea, there were no rallies in the street - it must have passed through all levels of government without a hitch.

A third possibility is that, when everyone discovered that The Unnameable was in charge, they stopped being democratic and started living like they were under a totalitarian regime that would come in and kill them if they spoke against it - which probably would have happened to any dissidents.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

I think is likely part of it. Also, the WW does not seem to hold elections for any position. The Minister is appointed, we know, not elected; and we have no clue how one gets a seat on the Wizengamot but we never have any mention of elections for the position. So I doubt that it's much of a democratic model anyway. There wouldn't be any organized opposition in the sense of political parties (another element of democracy we never see in the WW). So probably those that were not in favor of rounding up Muggleborns and the like knew they had no real power and just kept their heads down, hoping for rescue by their anointed savior.

However, I also doubt that the pro-Muggleborn faction was so very great a percentage of the population. Most of the pro-Muggleborn activity we see happens within the rather limited circle of Dumbledore supporters. Known pureblood supremacists like the Blacks and Malfoys wield clear social power, and we know of just one confirmed Muggleborn (Cresswell) with a real career in the WW. That hardly adds up to a society in which Muggleborns are widely viewed as the equals of other wizards/witches. And when Dumbledore falls, he falls quickly and the Prophet makes no bones about ridiculing him as deluded and less-than-all-there, making no exception for his political views. The wizarding public seems to eat this up - another indication that Dumbledore's views are not necessarily those of the majority.

That doesn't mean that most people were salivating at the prospect of killing all those 'outsiders,' but if much of the public already held a more or less unspoken belief that Muggleborns were somehow inferior to them, they weren't likely to be lining up to face death on their behalf when the government began taking harsher measures.

But JKR didn't do much of a job consciously portraying this sort of wide-spread bias as the problem in the books; she made it all about a select group of 'evil people' who just had to be eliminated to bring everything to rights again, and left the whole other issue of bias against *Muggles* alone (I agree with borg-princess here, in that we see a much clearer, though unspoken, depiction of real wide-spread bias against Muggles than against Muggleborns).

[https://me.yahoo.com/a/gNLVidA.xeLuPiOU_2B_USM.HYNFjA--#b0b6b (from livejournal.com)]

In the movie I have heard they are giving some airtime to show Hermione and the parental memory removal. I haven't seen it so I can't say for sure what they do, but it makes you wonder.

They sure have. This is what they show:

*** spoilers ahead ***


After Hermione obliviates her parents, the camera moves around the Grangers' living room showing little girl Hermione vanishing from all their family photographs. There are no actual tears on Hermione's part, but there's still a somewhat sad sense that she has just erased her own past as well as her parents'.
Later on in the movie when they're camping in the Forest of Dean, Hermione mentions that she came here with her parents once, and becomes nostalgic. It isn't a very dramatic moment, but I think it works: it is a visible sign that Hermione had an actual, decent relationship with her parents, and is grieving the loss of it all throughout their journey. It does help to make her seem more normal than she was in the books; however, the issue of how much her parents have lost isn't brought up at all.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

however, the issue of how much her parents have lost isn't brought up at all

Also not brought up at all in the film is whether she *spoke* to them about it beforehand - one of the big points in my own dissatisfaction with her action in the book (had she discussed it with them and gotten their agreement, I would have still disagreed with her choice, but it wouldn't signal a pathological disregard of their feelings and human rights on her part anymore). We see her cast the spell at them from behind, suggesting (but not proving) that she did it without their knowledge. So I personally am not that happy with the film version either, but that's just my opinion.

[https://me.yahoo.com/a/gNLVidA.xeLuPiOU_2B_USM.HYNFjA--#b0b6b (from livejournal.com)]

I see that too, though I'm personally inclined to forgive Hermione a little bit. I think the film shows a little bit of self-doubt in her when she does the obliviation - if she were 100% sure she was doing the right thing perhaps she wouldn't have felt the need to creep up on them from behind. I also don't find it too out of character for any headstrong, intelligent 17-year-old girl to believe they know what's best better than their parents do - especially Hermione, who for 6 years has been taught to believe that Muggles are inferior to wizards.
Hermione's tears over this incident in the book are totally self-pitying, but in the movie I think it's possible to see some regret in her feelings as well, as if she hadn't thought the implications through and is still haunted by what she's done.
I tend to see Hermione's case as the perfect emblem of what it means for Muggles to have a magical child ... after all the years of secrecy and separation, it wouldn't be surprising to see every Muggleborn ending up as a stranger to their parents.

Hermione the dark lord

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

>>The bad guys can use the same excuse, they believe what they are doing is correct and right for them. So how exactly is Hermione any different than the evil she is fighting against. If Hermione was in charge one day then apparently it would be perfectly acceptable to mind wipe people you're supposed to love as long as you 'believe' you are protecting them.<<

Certainly, as I have stated before, Hermione is the character who would most likely become the equivalent of the next dark lord after the end of the series. She is very nearly as horrible as the creepiest female baddie I have ever written, but without even being a designated villain... :S How does JKR do it?

Re: Hermione the dark lord

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

I love the idea of Dark Lady Hermione - you wouldn't happen to know any good fics like that, would you? ;)

Also, have you read Caveat Inimici (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/5508237/1/Caveat_Inimici)? She's not exactly a proper Dark Lady, but it's the perfect demonstration of her righteous ruthlessness, and it doesn't come across as OOC from canon!Hermione to me in the least.

Re: Hermione the dark lord

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

Well there is mine, but it is not very good :p I just hate Hermione far too much to write very much about her, very coherently. It features Harry and Ginny as Designated Hero and Heroine and makes Harry the likable airhead he was in the early series and shows Ginny's inconsistent characterisation throughout the series culminating in changing her into a nice sort of person. Hermione is the main antagonist.

http://www.fanfiction.net/s/6043387/1/Heart_of_Fire

There really aren't many fanfics at all that show Hermione as the monster she is in canon. I wonder why...

Re: Hermione the dark lord

[oryx_leucoryx]

Because most Hermione authors identify with early-Hermione (including her flaws) and mature her from there. A neurotic insensitive idealist isn't a lost case. Once she kidnapped Rita, putting personal vendetta above even Dumbledore's war secrets she was on the path to doom. (And even then, had Rowling been a competent author with more human understanding, she could have been redeemed. But Rowling didn't realize she needed a redemptive storyline.)

Re: Hermione the dark lord

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

JKR is either a lunatic or a completely incapable author. Hopefully the latter :s So many of her fans are better writers than she is!