GOF Chapter 7: Bagman and Crouch

[oryx_leucoryx]

This chapter brings wizards' mental block against Muggle clothing to ridiculous levels. If they know enough about the clothes to recognize the names of the items wouldn't they have seen enough Muggles to know what to wear with what?

I can understand wizards not *trusting* paper money, but how hard is it to figure out the value? Yes, there are numbers right there, on the bills. Of course wizards don't learn math at school (except for the few who take Arithmancy) so perhaps they are mostly innumerate.

Over a year ago Harry saw Lockhart wiping his own memory clean. This enables him to recognize that Mr Roberts just had his memory modified. And it doesn't creep him out because Mr Roberts maintains enough functionality to hand out maps. Even after 10 zaps a day. For 2 weeks. Anyway, it keeps him 'happy'. Yikes!

In between the lines of Arthur's assessment of his friend Ludo I get that Bagman spends his work time boasting about his Quidditch days and letting others do his work. And Arthur is enchanted with his enthusiasm. I can see Auror!Ron in the same pattern - talking a lot about his wartime adventures and not doing his job. Percy who actually does his work is the one who eventually gets ostracized.

There's a tent with live peacocks! Is that the Malfoy tent?

Harry had never been camping in his life. Don't you worry, Harry! In three years you'll catch up!

Perkins' tent looks like Mrs Fig's apartment and smells of cats! The source of theories about the Perkins-Figg connection that went nowhere.

Wizards can get water and fire by magic, but Arthur insists on doing it the Muggle way, ostensibly for security (as if Mr Roberts would notice), but of course really for fun. He's like a medieval re-enactor. Which does not explain why the trio in DH gathered firewood. I'm wondering under what circumstances Arthur had the chance to see Muggles camping (and what was left of their brains when he left).

Harry realizes there really were witches and wizards in other countries. He thought Charlie and Bill worked abroad with other British folk, right? All those History of Magic lessons and international laws should have been a hint. Let alone yesterday's conversation about Quidditch teams from several countries.

African wizards roast a rabbit, looking appropriately at home in the wilds, but their fire is purple, so it's probably magical. What's the story about the Salem witch hunts in the Potterverse? There really were witches in Salem and they let innocent Muggle women get killed as part of their cover-up?

Seamus is there with his mother and his best friend Dean. Mr Finnigan isn't there because he is a Muggle, and as we will be told next chapter there are Muggle-repeling charms around. We don't know what happened to Mr Finnigan after recovering from the shock of discovering he was married to a witch. Is he still around? Did he leave in terror? Did his wife kill him? Did she wipe or rewrite his memory? Does she keep him under some form of mind-control? Another interesting tidbit - Mrs Finnigan takes no notice of Harry whatsoever. Not fussing over The-Boy-Who-Lived is the mark of evil, I tell you!

Archie likes a breeze around his privates. Real wizards don't need underwear, graying or otherwise!

Harry sees unfamiliar teenagers. In 2 years time he won't even recognize his own House members by sight, but here he realizes they just might not be from Hogwarts at all! The wonders never end! Hermione knows about foreign wizards and schools because she must have read about them. Yes, and paid attention, and applied some basic logic. Ron knows about foreign schools through his experience of growing up in a wizarding family, which is expected. But soon enough we will discover the holes in his education. Has anyone ever compiled a list of things Ron knows from home vs things one would expect him to know but he doesn't? That could be an interesting insight into the home life of the Weasleys. Do you think Bill's brothers appreciated the prank his former pen-friend  played on him? Personally I think it was rather jerkish, but also something the twins or Ginny v2.0 might pull.

Arthur introduces some of his colleagues, including Bode, next year's red-shirt. But the other Unspeakable, Croaker, is of no significance. Despite readers' expectations (especially after we got told that James and Lily's occupation was 'significant') the Department of Mysteries exists only in order to house next year's McGuffin and the draperies of doom. Maybe when Albus was reinstated as Chief Warlock he ordered that the department close down as it had served its purpose. Hmm, the Head of the Goblins Liaison Office is one Cuthbert Mockridge. Horace Slughorn has yet to pull whatever strings he pulled to get Dirk Cresswell that job. However Horace will go underground the coming June. The timeline just barely works.

A very warm welcome to Ludo - kids, be nice to people who bribe your dad! Percy is well-mannered to a person he does not appreciate professionally. Harry of course sees this negatively. No Harry, that's how normal people are supposed to behave.

Ludo's jingling gold in his pocket shows how enthusiastic he is, completely different from the gold in Lucius' pocket clinking as he moves (next year)!

Not being a gambler I might be getting this wrong, but if Agatha Timms bet half of the shares in her eel farm on it being a week-long match, and the game ended that night, doesn't that mean Ludo came to own half an eel farm after the game? Wasn't that enough to settle at least his debt to the goblins?

Fred and George aren't of age yet, but their father can't stop them from gambling their entire savings. And Ludo interferes with Arthur's parenting for the sake of landing another bet. A really swell guy!

Crouch is working hard. Bagman is having the time of his life not working - despite the event in question being a sport event and therefore squarely within the jurisdiction of his department.

At the mention of his boss' name Percy stokes the fire to make tea. It comes across to me as Percy's sincere expression of admiration, not deliberate sucking up. Of course without knowing Crouch's dark secret he does come across as very professional, very competent and even caring for a former underling who must have run into trouble. However it is painful to see Crouch constantly ignoring Percy beyond the bare minimum. 

What is the deal about 'Weatherby'? Is it a slip of Crouch's? Is that the name Percy chose for himself? Did Percy ask Crouch not to judge him by his father and Crouch is playing along? Looking at Crouch's personality and story-arc as a whole I tend to think the first is the case. Because Crouch has trouble respecting the individuality of his son as well as his various underlings, past and present - Bertha Jorkins and Winky. So not paying attention to Percy's name follows the same pattern.

The Bulgarians wanted to add 12 seats to the top box at the last minute. Did one of them just make an emergency bribe or is this a matter of keeping parity with the hosts (ie they didn't want to be outnumbered by people of the host country, so Arthur's 10 tickets had to be matched)?

Arthur won't let Muggle artifacts such as carpets be charmed to fly. Only cars.

Bagman enjoys hinting and nudging about an event at Hogwarts that would require much organizing. Whatever could that be about?

So 'they' have signed already, but the details haven't been worked out yet. In HBP we will learn that Fudge updated the Muggle prime minister about the intent to import 3 foreign dragons and one sphinx the same time he reported the disturbance at the Quidditch World Cup. Unless this report was much belated, it looks like the details were in fact already quite worked out by the time of the game. Or perhaps Rowling forgot to reread GOF when she wrote that bit.

Ron follows the Weasley school of financial management by spending his entire fortune on souvenirs just before noticing he could have used the money on something more useful.

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

The International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy dates from either 1692 (Quidditch through the Ages) or 1689 (A History of Magic).

For some reason those US witches decided to have a school in Salem. (Of course it doesn't have to be Salem Massachusetts, could be one of the others, for all we know.)

Begging the question as to why any witch and/or wizard would immigrate to the New World, any self-respecting witch or wizard would not have been living in Salem in the 1690s.

Why not? And who said they were any more self-respecting than the Gaunts? The ideal place for Rowling's wizards is on the outside of small Muggle communities, where they can leach off the Muggles but remain hidden.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

The International Statute of Wizarding Secrecy dates from either 1692 (Quidditch through the Ages) or 1689 (A History of Magic).

It was still well after the height of the Inquisition, and witch trials were fairly rare in England by then.


For some reason those US witches decided to have a school in Salem. (Of course it doesn't have to be Salem Massachusetts, could be one of the others, for all we know.)

Rowling threw out the Salem thing in some interview when asked if there was a school for witchcraft and wizardry in the United States. That answer was something she came up with on the fly, and amply demonstrates her lack of knowledge of history. She thought "America" and "witches" and could only think of the Salem Witch Trials, which have been amply proven to have been the result of the mass hysterics of a fundamentalist Christian sect, with no hint of actual witchcraft ever having been performed by any of those convicted of witchcraft.

If wizards and witches did immigrate from the Old World to the New World, the fundamentalist/puritanical Christian colonies of New England would have been the last place they would have settled, let alone establish a school of witchcraft and wizardry.

That would have been much more a New York thing! LOL

Actually I'd think that there would be more than one school in the States, due to its size. I could see having at least 5 regional schools.


"Begging the question as to why any witch and/or wizard would immigrate to the New World, any self-respecting witch or wizard would not have been living in Salem in the 1690s."

Why not?

Uhhh...because it was settled by puritanical, fundamentalist Christians who didn't brook any deviation from their rigid rules, and who'd accuse anyone deemed "different" of witchcraft, a charge that could result in losing one's life.


And who said they were any more self-respecting than the Gaunts?

My point exactly. Any magikal folk who had healthy egos and respect for themselves would not want to be living amongst paranoid people who saw the Devil under every rock.


The ideal place for Rowling's wizards is on the outside of small Muggle communities, where they can leach off the Muggles but remain hidden.

The ideal place for my magikal colonial folk would be smack in the middle of major cities like New York and Philadelphia, "hiding in plain sight", or else moving to the frontier where they would be rural farmers and probably have a decent relationship with the local Indian medicine men and wise women. I can also see wizards being trappers and "mountain men" in the far west.

Just my personal magikal mind universe! LOL

[oryx_leucoryx]

Rowling threw out the Salem thing in some interview when asked if there was a school for witchcraft and wizardry in the United States.

In this very chapter the witches are from The Salem Witches Institute. That's why I brought it up in my spork. It's actual book-canon. So either it is in Salem, Massachusetts, or in one of the other cities by the same name, or somewhere else but for some reason named after one Salem or another. Heck, Salem could be the name of the Institute's founder.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

One possibility is that the school was founded long enough after the witch trials that it was an *excellent* place for a school... because anyone in that area who suggested that something was due to witchcraft would be even more likely to be disregarded, or looked at with contempt, than if the same thing happened elsewhere in the region.

But yeah, I'm not impressed with JKR about this. For her, it's just a word association game.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

So either it is in Salem, Massachusetts, or in one of the other cities by the same name, or somewhere else but for some reason named after one Salem or another. Heck, Salem could be the name of the Institute's founder.

As I stated previously, Rowling was asked specifically about an American school (I don't know if the interview occurred prior to the release of GoF), and she specifically stated that the American school was in Salem, Massachusetts.

I doubt her "Salem Witches Institute" is meant to be in Oregon.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Screw JKR and Salem Witches Institute - she doesn't know jack about the colonies.

I refuse to accept her canon on America; it's bogus nonsense.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

If wizards and witches did immigrate from the Old World to the New World, the fundamentalist/puritanical Christian colonies of New England would have been the last place they would have settled, let alone establish a school of witchcraft and wizardry.

(In England back in the 1600's)

Matthew Fairstone a wizard to his wife Anna a witch: Look dear, a boat full of 998 Puritans going to the new world colonies.

Hay Honey...wanna go on a fun fulled boat trip full of religious fundamentalist!!

Anna fairstone: I would love a vacation and that sounds like so much fun! Let me just get out my wand and downsize own property into one carryon bag.

Matthew: Whoohoo! We're going to Massachusetts!!

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Actually, it seems to me that puritanism would be right up the Wizarding world's alley- I mean, both groups see themselves as the special/chosen/elect and are disdainful of people not in that group. I think it would be a match made in... uh, somewhere...

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Matthew Fairstone a wizard to his wife Anna a witch: Look dear, a boat full of 998 Puritans going to the new world colonies.

Hay Honey...wanna go on a fun fulled boat trip full of religious fundamentalist!!

What people forget -- and in fact is almost never taught in American History classes here in the States -- is that the Puritans first immigrated from England to Holland, because they'd been supporters of Oliver Cromwell and weren't happy with his defeat in the English Civil War and subsequent "Restoration" period.

IOW, they were fundamentalist Christians who wanted to impose their beliefs on all of society, and they were unhappy when they felt that English society was returning to its previous "evil ways".

For some reason they thought Holland would provide what they needed, probably based on meeting some Dutch Calvinists. But what they found was a predominantly Catholic Holland that was much more tolerant of religious and social diversity than even England had been. So after a couple of years they left Holland in a huff to start their "New Jerusalem" in the New World -- they actually were heading for Virginia, but someone couldn't steer and they ended up in Massachusetts instead.

So these people left England for Holland because they could not brook any religious or social tolerance in their home country; and then they left Holland for the same reason. Once they established their own place in the New World, they definitely weren't going to brook and religious or social deviation from what they deemed should be the norm.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Wouldn't it be interesting if, among the Puritans, there were Squibs of the sour grape variety?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I actually wonder if American wizards would see as much a need for secrecy as their British counterparts. One of the things that many Americans pride themselves on is openness (secret societies, etc. excepted), and hiding yourself from the rest of the world doesn't seem very open, does it?

Besides, I can imagine a lot of these clueless wizards going to the New World completely unprepared for what it's like to live in the wilderness and possibly having to ask the natives for help so that they don't starve to death. After all, magic can't do everything and there would be a whole new set of problems to be concerned with (think of all the new diseases!). But I could be saying this because I want to see the arrogant *words I shouldn't repeat* get what's coming to them.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Besides, I can imagine a lot of these clueless wizards going to the New World completely unprepared for what it's like to live in the wilderness and possibly having to ask the natives for help so that they don't starve to death.

I'm sure there had to be some adventurer's in the magical community. Men/Women who wanted to exlore, expand, or just F'in get away from whatever ruling government they were associated with.

But hell you gotta also take into consideration that at one point a large part of American was owned by other countries besides England.

the 13 colonies of Britain became independence in 1776. In the late 16th century, England, Scotland, France, Sweden, Spain and the Netherlands began to colonize eastern North America.

It wasn't just England or the English moving in.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

That's true, though I was actually thinking mainly of Jamestown and that era of settlement---

Ooh, that could put an interesting spin on the whole Roanoke thing though!

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

I actually wonder if American wizards would see as much a need for secrecy as their British counterparts. One of the things that many Americans pride themselves on is openness (secret societies, etc. excepted), and hiding yourself from the rest of the world doesn't seem very open, does it?

Well they'd have to be circumspect in small towns and rural areas -- for as much as America touted "religious freedom", the bottom line is that most of America was settled by conservative Protestants who later objected to the influx of Catholics and Jews...so they certainly wouldn't have been happy with someone who openly practiced witchcraft.

But I think in that case you'd see magikal folk who fit themselves into the system; they'd go to church every Sunday, even head up organizing church socials and lead Sunday School classes...

But they'd also be the people others came to who knew how to make that "certain something" to cure their horse's colic, who knew a certain "charm" to ensure one got a beau, who could "remove the curse" when someone was unlucky financially or whose health was not the best.

But for wizards and witches who settled in cities, I think they'd have a much easier time of it. Cities have such large populations that it would be easier to be relatively more open about one's magikal abilities, even to congregate with other wizards and witches.

And I even see maybe a few towns being created by, and solely for, wizards and witches, but they'd still interact with any Muggles who lived nearby.


Besides, I can imagine a lot of these clueless wizards going to the New World completely unprepared for what it's like to live in the wilderness and possibly having to ask the natives for help so that they don't starve to death

Not unlike their non-magikal counterparts.

Actually, I think a skill like being able to magikally create fire out of nothing gives a colonial witch or wizard on the frontier a leg up over their non-magikal counterparts! LOL

And tell me that a wizard "trapper" who could accio beavers wouldn't do a lot better than his Muggle counterparts who had to range far and wide setting physical traps.

But yes, I believe European magikal folk would have on the most part gotten along with Native Americans more than the non-magikal immigrants did. As for "new diseases", basically the Indians gave Europeans syphilis, we gave the Indians smallpox, measles, cholera, mumps, all of which were fatal to the Indians and resulted in the extinction of the majority of tribes. So really, it would have been Indian medicine men and wise women who'd have sought out the European magikal folk more than the opposite.


But I could be saying this because I want to see the arrogant *words I shouldn't repeat* get what's coming to them.

Okay, I admit to density...what are the "words I shouldn't repeat"?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Why not? And who said they were any more self-respecting than the Gaunts? The ideal place for Rowling's wizards is on the outside of small Muggle communities, where they can leach off the Muggles but remain hidden.

I don't know if JKR knows enought about the Colonies or American history. I think she only picked Salem because of it being well known in the standard sense of popular culture. Most people that thing Salem Mass that have a general history knowledge will instantly think witch/witch trials. So it's not hard to see why she would choose that as the place for magical people in the USA.

Personally, I think the magical people would choose a tiny bit south, but thats just me. My history memory isn't allt hat great but I seem to remember something about Mass was fully of puritans back in the day.

There weren't no towns back in the early 1600 - it was just trees, indians and bears - oh my, when white folk started showing up. And I know my history is bad, but if I remmeber rightly Jamestown started in 1607 or somewhere along there. I didn't think Mass/Salem/whatever was till the middle to late 1620's - and if my memory still serves me it was started by puritans; which makes sense why they all went off the deep end with the witch trial crap but I just can't find myself believing that magical people would chose to get on a boat full of puritans to come to the new world, or choose to migrate exactly to that area where they were living.

I still say Virginia area is the better choice if they wanted to live near mugglefolk. Though, in my mind any magical person coming to the new world is chosing to be away from people. There was a big beautiful nothing here back then. No cities, at least not in the sense that you'd find in England, etc.


My dates are prbably crappy so I could be wrong on the years and stuff and info, I'm just going by my bad public school education memory (hehe)

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Well, if I remember right the Mayflower actually was headed for Virginia but got off course somehow, so I don't think they originally meant to separate themselves from the other colonists.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Well, if I remember right the Mayflower actually was headed for Virginia but got off course somehow, so I don't think they originally meant to separate themselves from the other colonists.

Yep, they did. Even if they'd ended up in Virginia as they'd intended, the plan was to separate themselves from others and establish a colony that would be self-sufficient. They wanted to maintain the "purity" of their society (hence the name "Puritans"), and the only way they thought they could do that was to go off on their own.

As I pointed out in a prior post, they'd originally left England for Holland, thinking they would find a society in line with their way of thinking across the North Sea. Realizing that Holland was even more tolerant of diversity than England, they then decided to go to America to set up their own society separate from all others...they basically wanted to create an experiment to prove a point.

We were always taught that the Puritans came here "seeking religious freedom", but that's a crock. They had religious freedom in England, but objected to the return of the monarchy (which they felt was too "papish") plus they didn't like paying taxes to the king. They then went to Holland, but didn't like that Dutch society was primarily Catholic (the horror!), nor that the Dutch government had laws protecting religious minorities like Jews-- and Puritans. The Puritans also were shocked by how much the Dutch liked to party, and thought the Dutch didn't discipline (re: beat) their children enough.

So the Puritans had been afforded religious liberty in both England and Holland, but because the Puritans themselves did not believe in allowing others religious liberty, they decided to come to the New World with the idea of setting up their own, separate, religiously-intolerant society.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

The Pilgrims were in fact planning to settle in Virginia, but not the modern-day state of Virginia that I am referring to. They were part of the Virginia Company, which had the rights to most of the eastern seaboard of the U.S. The pilgrims had intended to go to the Hudson River region in New York State, which would have been considered "Northern Virginia," but they landed in Cape Cod instead. Treacherous seas prevented them from venturing further south.

So, really they were heading for the New York area not the Jamestown actual modern day Virginia area.

Also consider the time difference in years.

The Mayflower brought the group of English settlers now known as the Pilgrims to North America. Leaving England in the fall of 1620, the Pilgrims were attempting to land near the mouth of the Hudson River, but instead ended up in Cape Cod Harbor. Plymouth, the colony established there by the Pilgrims in 1621, became the first permanent European settlement in New England.


Just a few years after the founding of Jamestown in 1607, English settlers sailed up the James River in search of a more suitable place to live. Sir Thomas Dale traveled 80 miles up the james river into what is now Chesterfield County. There he founded the Citie of Henricus, the second permanent English settlement in America and home of Pocahontas and the site where tobacco was first cultivated.

Pocahontas and the history tends to get muddied up. Actually Pocahontas was kidnapped hy the colonists in hopes of randsoming her off for English Prisoners but while captured a English minister instructed pocahontas in Christianity. She was baptized and her name was changed to Rebecca.

In 1614 she rebuked her father for valuing her less than old swords, pieces or axes and declared that she perferred to live with the English.

She married a widower named John Rolfe and they married in 1614. She even traveled to England and met the king, etc but she died seven months later in Gravesend.

John Rolfe was a tobacco farmer and his experimentation with new strains of tobacco became the colony's economic salvation. After Pocahontas' death he returned to American, and eventually remarried and continued to raise tobacco until his death in 1622.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the lost colony of Roanoke. Maybe that was a wizarding colony that decided to up and "disappear" before the Muggles came back.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the lost colony of Roanoke. Maybe that was a wizarding colony that decided to up and "disappear" before the Muggles came back.


Ouuuu, Yes, that would be a cool explaination for American Magical people!!

However there is some interesting history going on with the Roanoke colony as well.

Sir Walter Raleigh first tried to found a colony of 108 settlers under the command of his cousin, Sir Richard Grenville. They sailed from Plymouth, England, in April 1585 and reached land in June.

Faced with dwindling food supplies, a delay in the return of Grenville's supply ship, and attacks by Native Americans, the colonists soon grew discouraged, and in 1586 the whole group went back to England with Sir Francis Drake. Soon after, a supply ship from Raleigh arrived to find the colony empty. Two weeks later Grenville also arrived at Roanoke with supplies; he left 15 men there to hold England's claim.


Raleigh's second colony, consisting of about 150 settlers under the command of John White, sailed from Plymouth in May of 1587. They landed at Roanoke Island in July but found the fort razed and the remains of only one of the 15 men.

The new settlers—who this time included more farmers as well as women and children—built houses and repaired those remaining from the previous colony; Virginia Dare was born on August 18. White soon returned to England to procure more supplies, but the war with Spain prevented him from obtaining a ship with which to relieve the colony. When White did return to Roanoke in August 1590, he found the settlers had disappeared, leaving no clue to their fate except the word “Croatoan” carved on a tree.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Most people that thing Salem Mass that have a general history knowledge will instantly think witch/witch trials. So it's not hard to see why she would choose that as the place for magical people in the USA.

Hey, my hometome hung a witch back in the 1680s or 1690s, but the town didn't become known as a hotbed of witches...

Melonhead hauntings, yes. Witches, no. ;-)


Personally, I think the magical people would choose a tiny bit south, but thats just me.

Actually, I agree...altho my definition of "a tiny bit south" is probably more north than yours! LOL

Remember, most of New England was colonized by religious fundamentalists, and well into the 19th century it was still against the law to celebrate Christmas as it was considered "pagan" and "papish" to do so.

"Banned in Boston" came to be considered a joke by the 1960s, but the phrase did mean something before then, it was common for books, magazines, and later movies, to be banned in Boston but be perfectly acceptable elsewhere in America.

For instance, the Disney film Snow White was "banned in Boston", because of the song the dwarves sing when they first meet Snow White, and one of the dwarves sings about his beard being so long that he used it for a "dydee-dee" (diaper)...so in the 1930s a good portion of New England was still adhering to puritanical values.

But very northern New England was not so strict, you had more of an influence from the French along the Canadian border. And the Dutch in New Amsterdam, which later became New York, always were much less strict. So I could see magikal folk settling in Maine, and northern Vermont and New Hampshire, and definitely in New York and Philadelphia.

Especially New York, which has a history of folk tales of "strange people", "wee folk", and hauntings in the areas north and east of NY City...that is where we find Rip Van Winkle and Ichabod Crane and the Headless Horseman after all...


My history memory isn't allt hat great but I seem to remember something about Mass was fully of puritans back in the day.

American Colonial History was my major at college...and yes, what we call "The Puritans" landed at Plymouth Rock in 1620 and started Plymouth Colony, which later branched out into other colonies in Massachusetts, and then dissenting groups requested separate charters from King George and when they were granted, they formed colonies in Rhode Island and Connecticut.

But they were all still fanatically fundamentalist Christians. I think I mentioned before that here in Connecticut we still had a law prohibiting witchcraft on the books until 20 years ago, a law that dated back to the late 1600s (with amendments over the centuries).


I still say Virginia area is the better choice if they wanted to live near mugglefolk.

Anywhere from along the Canadian border, or from NYC south along the eastern seaboard: Trenton, Philadelphia, Baltimore, Richmond, Charleston, Savannah, New Orleans, if they wanted to be close to Muggles. Else anywhere on the western frontier if they preferred to segregate themselves.

But Massachusetts, Rhode Island, and Connecticut would be the last colonies for a wizard and witch to willingly immigrate to from the 1600s until the mid-1800s...

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

This is a fascinating conversation (and I'm from Connecticut!) But I have to add: what about the First Nations? There were hundreds of thousands, if not millions, of people in the area when the Pilgrims and other settlers arrived, and they were living in many different ways. Assuming that there could be magical English people, why couldn't there be magical Pequots or Mohawks or Leni Lenape, etc.?

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

The ideal place for Rowling's wizards is on the outside of small Muggle communities, where they can leach off the Muggles but remain hidden.

So... the obviously superior group of people operates by leaching off of the hard work and technology of the very people they disdain... what exactly does this say about the HP world?

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

So... the obviously superior group of people operates by leaching off of the hard work and technology of the very people they disdain... what exactly does this say about the HP world?

That it is like most modern, western, industrialized, capitalistic societies? ;-)

The American Republican Party is made up of wizards and witches!! =:-o

[sunnyskywalker]

Omg, has half the US been Confunded by wizard politicians? Or more than half, since not having an ounce of logic seems to be a requirement for wizards and politicians of every party. They certainly have the same poor grasp of history that wizards do. Or maybe some of them are just like the poor Muggle Minister's assistant who got Imperiused improperly...