GOF Chapter 7: Bagman and Crouch

[oryx_leucoryx]

This chapter brings wizards' mental block against Muggle clothing to ridiculous levels. If they know enough about the clothes to recognize the names of the items wouldn't they have seen enough Muggles to know what to wear with what?

I can understand wizards not *trusting* paper money, but how hard is it to figure out the value? Yes, there are numbers right there, on the bills. Of course wizards don't learn math at school (except for the few who take Arithmancy) so perhaps they are mostly innumerate.

Over a year ago Harry saw Lockhart wiping his own memory clean. This enables him to recognize that Mr Roberts just had his memory modified. And it doesn't creep him out because Mr Roberts maintains enough functionality to hand out maps. Even after 10 zaps a day. For 2 weeks. Anyway, it keeps him 'happy'. Yikes!

In between the lines of Arthur's assessment of his friend Ludo I get that Bagman spends his work time boasting about his Quidditch days and letting others do his work. And Arthur is enchanted with his enthusiasm. I can see Auror!Ron in the same pattern - talking a lot about his wartime adventures and not doing his job. Percy who actually does his work is the one who eventually gets ostracized.

There's a tent with live peacocks! Is that the Malfoy tent?

Harry had never been camping in his life. Don't you worry, Harry! In three years you'll catch up!

Perkins' tent looks like Mrs Fig's apartment and smells of cats! The source of theories about the Perkins-Figg connection that went nowhere.

Wizards can get water and fire by magic, but Arthur insists on doing it the Muggle way, ostensibly for security (as if Mr Roberts would notice), but of course really for fun. He's like a medieval re-enactor. Which does not explain why the trio in DH gathered firewood. I'm wondering under what circumstances Arthur had the chance to see Muggles camping (and what was left of their brains when he left).

Harry realizes there really were witches and wizards in other countries. He thought Charlie and Bill worked abroad with other British folk, right? All those History of Magic lessons and international laws should have been a hint. Let alone yesterday's conversation about Quidditch teams from several countries.

African wizards roast a rabbit, looking appropriately at home in the wilds, but their fire is purple, so it's probably magical. What's the story about the Salem witch hunts in the Potterverse? There really were witches in Salem and they let innocent Muggle women get killed as part of their cover-up?

Seamus is there with his mother and his best friend Dean. Mr Finnigan isn't there because he is a Muggle, and as we will be told next chapter there are Muggle-repeling charms around. We don't know what happened to Mr Finnigan after recovering from the shock of discovering he was married to a witch. Is he still around? Did he leave in terror? Did his wife kill him? Did she wipe or rewrite his memory? Does she keep him under some form of mind-control? Another interesting tidbit - Mrs Finnigan takes no notice of Harry whatsoever. Not fussing over The-Boy-Who-Lived is the mark of evil, I tell you!

Archie likes a breeze around his privates. Real wizards don't need underwear, graying or otherwise!

Harry sees unfamiliar teenagers. In 2 years time he won't even recognize his own House members by sight, but here he realizes they just might not be from Hogwarts at all! The wonders never end! Hermione knows about foreign wizards and schools because she must have read about them. Yes, and paid attention, and applied some basic logic. Ron knows about foreign schools through his experience of growing up in a wizarding family, which is expected. But soon enough we will discover the holes in his education. Has anyone ever compiled a list of things Ron knows from home vs things one would expect him to know but he doesn't? That could be an interesting insight into the home life of the Weasleys. Do you think Bill's brothers appreciated the prank his former pen-friend  played on him? Personally I think it was rather jerkish, but also something the twins or Ginny v2.0 might pull.

Arthur introduces some of his colleagues, including Bode, next year's red-shirt. But the other Unspeakable, Croaker, is of no significance. Despite readers' expectations (especially after we got told that James and Lily's occupation was 'significant') the Department of Mysteries exists only in order to house next year's McGuffin and the draperies of doom. Maybe when Albus was reinstated as Chief Warlock he ordered that the department close down as it had served its purpose. Hmm, the Head of the Goblins Liaison Office is one Cuthbert Mockridge. Horace Slughorn has yet to pull whatever strings he pulled to get Dirk Cresswell that job. However Horace will go underground the coming June. The timeline just barely works.

A very warm welcome to Ludo - kids, be nice to people who bribe your dad! Percy is well-mannered to a person he does not appreciate professionally. Harry of course sees this negatively. No Harry, that's how normal people are supposed to behave.

Ludo's jingling gold in his pocket shows how enthusiastic he is, completely different from the gold in Lucius' pocket clinking as he moves (next year)!

Not being a gambler I might be getting this wrong, but if Agatha Timms bet half of the shares in her eel farm on it being a week-long match, and the game ended that night, doesn't that mean Ludo came to own half an eel farm after the game? Wasn't that enough to settle at least his debt to the goblins?

Fred and George aren't of age yet, but their father can't stop them from gambling their entire savings. And Ludo interferes with Arthur's parenting for the sake of landing another bet. A really swell guy!

Crouch is working hard. Bagman is having the time of his life not working - despite the event in question being a sport event and therefore squarely within the jurisdiction of his department.

At the mention of his boss' name Percy stokes the fire to make tea. It comes across to me as Percy's sincere expression of admiration, not deliberate sucking up. Of course without knowing Crouch's dark secret he does come across as very professional, very competent and even caring for a former underling who must have run into trouble. However it is painful to see Crouch constantly ignoring Percy beyond the bare minimum. 

What is the deal about 'Weatherby'? Is it a slip of Crouch's? Is that the name Percy chose for himself? Did Percy ask Crouch not to judge him by his father and Crouch is playing along? Looking at Crouch's personality and story-arc as a whole I tend to think the first is the case. Because Crouch has trouble respecting the individuality of his son as well as his various underlings, past and present - Bertha Jorkins and Winky. So not paying attention to Percy's name follows the same pattern.

The Bulgarians wanted to add 12 seats to the top box at the last minute. Did one of them just make an emergency bribe or is this a matter of keeping parity with the hosts (ie they didn't want to be outnumbered by people of the host country, so Arthur's 10 tickets had to be matched)?

Arthur won't let Muggle artifacts such as carpets be charmed to fly. Only cars.

Bagman enjoys hinting and nudging about an event at Hogwarts that would require much organizing. Whatever could that be about?

So 'they' have signed already, but the details haven't been worked out yet. In HBP we will learn that Fudge updated the Muggle prime minister about the intent to import 3 foreign dragons and one sphinx the same time he reported the disturbance at the Quidditch World Cup. Unless this report was much belated, it looks like the details were in fact already quite worked out by the time of the game. Or perhaps Rowling forgot to reread GOF when she wrote that bit.

Ron follows the Weasley school of financial management by spending his entire fortune on souvenirs just before noticing he could have used the money on something more useful.

Comments

[darth-eldritch.livejournal.com]

It just seems that wizards are incompetent in rl ;P

Rowling's trying too hard to demarcate the minor differences between muggle rl and the WW.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Great update. :)

And yes, Harry's lack of touch with reality is enough to make the baby Jesus shit his pants. :/ (My apologies to anyone I may have unintentionally offended. Namaste. :)

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

What's the story about the Salem witch hunts in the Potterverse? There really were witches in Salem and they let innocent Muggle women get killed as part of their cover-up?

Why not? It's apparently what they did in Britain.

Ludo's jingling gold in his pocket shows how enthusiastic he is, completely different from the gold in Lucius' pocket clinking as he moves (next year)!

Ah, but clinking implies Lucius is trying to hide his wealth, and as we all know, sneakiness is the mark of evil. Being up front with how much money you have is the mark of honesty and demands respect, as we see with the twins.

Not being a gambler I might be getting this wrong, but if Agatha Timms bet half of the shares in her eel farm on it being a week-long match, and the game ended that night, doesn't that mean Ludo came to own half an eel farm after the game? Wasn't that enough to settle at least his debt to the goblins?

So if it had been a week, would they have all stayed in the stadium for the duration? What if it had continued until the start of term, or the Triwizard Tournament?

So 'they' have signed already, but the details haven't been worked out yet. In HBP we will learn that Fudge updated the Muggle prime minister about the intent to import 3 foreign dragons and one sphinx the same time he reported the disturbance at the Quidditch World Cup. Unless this report was much belated, it looks like the details were in fact already quite worked out by the time of the game. Or perhaps Rowling forgot to reread GOF when she wrote that bit.

More likely they negotiated for as many monsters as they could get and then designed the tournament around that.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/This chapter brings wizards' mental block against Muggle clothing to ridiculous levels. If they know enough about the clothes to recognize the names of the items wouldn't they have seen enough Muggles to know what to wear with what?/

I understand that this is supposed to be a humorous running gag, but honestly. It should not be that difficult for wizards to find out what Muggles wear. These are British Muggles who practically live next door to them. It's not as if the wizards are traveling in the Amazon, coming across some undiscovered tribe, and trying to imitate their types of clothing.

/Of course wizards don't learn math at school (except for the few who take Arithmancy) so perhaps they are mostly innumerate./

I've always wondered how wizards learn basic skills like math, reading, and writing. We don't hear of any such subjects at Hogwarts, so how do children learn them beforehand? Are they home-schooled?

/Harry realizes there really were witches and wizards in other countries. He thought Charlie and Bill worked abroad with other British folk, right? All those History of Magic lessons and international laws should have been a hint. Let alone yesterday's conversation about Quidditch teams from several countries./

I know, it's simply amazing how closed-off and insulated his mind is. Is his imagination really so limited that he can't imagine there being wizards in other countries? Besides, not everyone in Hogwarts is ethnically English. Seamus is Irish. Cho is Asian (and is most likely Chinese). Shouldn't that have been a hint? Or does Cho not count because she's British-born and Seamus not count because Ireland is located in the British Isles?

/We don't know what happened to Mr Finnigan after recovering from the shock of discovering he was married to a witch./

That's right, we never see Mr. Finnigan. We don't know anything about him other than he's a Muggle, he didn't know that his wife was a witch until after they were married, and he's Seamus' father. Since Seamus is a minor character, this doesn't seem like such a big deal...until one realizes that we've never really seen the Grangers either. We've never heard them talk, we don't know what they look like, all we know is that they're Muggle dentists and they're Hermione's parents. Since Hermione *is* a major character, then something starts to not look right.

/Real wizards don't need underwear, graying or otherwise!/

Ha! Is that a reference to "A Very Potter Sequel?" :)

/Has anyone ever compiled a list of things Ron knows from home vs things one would expect him to know but he doesn't? That could be an interesting insight into the home life of the Weasleys./

Or an interesting insight into how JKR dumbs down Ron just to make Hermione look better. How is it that Hermione knows certain things about the wizarding world that Ron doesn't? She's a Muggle-born, for crying out loud! I don't care how much she reads, there are some things that you don't learn just by reading books. For example, how on earth did she know that most Death Eaters are half-bloods? Where in "Hogwarts, a History" would that interesting little fact be written? Ron is the pureblood who's grown up in this world; *he* should be lecturing *her* about it, not the other way around.

/Percy is well-mannered to a person he does not appreciate professionally. Harry of course sees this negatively. No Harry, that's how normal people are supposed to behave./

And as we see in OotP, the art of keeping your mouth shut and playing along just so that you don't make a fool of yourself when talking to somebody you dislike is utterly lost on Capslock!Harry.

/What is the deal about 'Weatherby'?/

I could never figure that out. I don't know where the name even came from, since we never hear it mentioned before Crouch starts to randomly call Percy that. Is it supposed to be an easy replacement for "Weasley?" But how could Crouch, who's portrayed as being sharp, strict, and utterly methodical and who must certainly know Arthur through the Ministry, get Percy's name wrong?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

And it doesn't creep him out because Mr Roberts maintains enough functionality to hand out maps. Even after 10 zaps a day. For 2 weeks.

Ouch. I remember how that 'crept me out' when I first read it. Way back when I'd discovered HP (when GoF was published, actually; I read the first four together) and didn't know how spectacularly Rowling was going to fail with the series, when I thought those first four books were okay, good children's books.

Creepy. Okay, Rowling was shooting for the 'muggle humour' in the first few books, but we poor mortals are definitely second-class citizens in her world. Of course the series is all about wizards, not muggles, but still ... brrrr. Even the good wizards don't care about turning Roberts's brain into mush.

Harry had never been camping in his life. Don't you worry, Harry! In three years you'll catch up!

HA HA HA!!!!

And then some.

Which does not explain why the trio in DH gathered firewood.

The usual explanation; Rowling had no idea of her own continuity, what she'd previously written.

In 2 years time he won't even recognize his own House members by sight

In HBP? I *almost* remember that, but not quite. Can you remind me?

Horace Slughorn has yet to pull whatever strings he pulled to get Dirk Cresswell that job. However Horace will go underground the coming June. ...

Ludo's jingling gold in his pocket shows how enthusiastic he is, completely different from the gold in Lucius' pocket clinking as he moves (next year)! ...

So 'they' have signed already, but the details haven't been worked out yet. In HBP we will learn that Fudge updated the Muggle prime minister about the intent to import 3 foreign dragons and one sphinx the same time he reported the disturbance at the Quidditch World Cup. ...

My goodness, the amount of effort and research you've put into analysing the timelines of this series is amazing! Much more than Rowling; I dare say most of her 'boxes and boxes' of notes (if I recall that interview bit correctly) was concerned with trivial and inconsequential stuff.

I.e. -

Or perhaps Rowling forgot to reread GOF when she wrote that bit.

Yeah.

... doesn't that mean Ludo came to own half an eel farm after the game? Wasn't that enough to settle at least his debt to the goblins?

Nice! I guess a Jo apologist would simply say 'no' to that question. Or maybe Timms reneged too.

However it is painful to see Crouch constantly ignoring Percy beyond the bare minimum.

It was, actually. I cottoned on to the whole 'Jo disapproves of Percy so the readers should too' thing but I still thought Crouch's cavalier attitude, always forgetting Percy's name, etc, didn't warrant Percy's respect. I was sad for Percy. Maybe Percy was simply trying to ingratiate himself with the boss for advancement, if there was no real personal relationship there ... or maybe he was simply trying to be a good employee, striving to do his best. I felt a bit sad for Percy with regard to Crouch.

Arthur won't let Muggle artifacts such as carpets be charmed to fly. Only cars.

That was clear and simple hypocrisy on Arthur's part, wasn't it? I've read fanfics where it was noted - even if in passing - that he'd committed a misdemeanour.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

This chapter brings wizards' mental block against Muggle clothing to ridiculous levels. If they know enough about the clothes to recognize the names of the items wouldn't they have seen enough Muggles to know what to wear with what?

It just may be willful disrespect of a race or group that wizards think are below them. It's something those Muggles do so it's open to ridicule and making gags but nothing to be taken seriously. Think of any group outside of the mainstream and the way mainstream people will react to them, making fun of the slang, the trappings and the rites of passage, just because. It's meant to degrade the group, not only to the person doing the degrading and others of like mind but, it's meant to show contempt for the group so others in the main group won't join.

In fact, it doesn't even have to be a main group doing it. It can be any group with obvious differences to a different group, including the mainstream group, showing contempt.

Percy who actually does his work is the one who eventually gets ostracized.

Because people who do the actual work are not privileged and worthy of nothing more than contempt. Good guys try to get out of doing as much work as possible.

Real wizards don't need underwear, graying or otherwise!

So, when Sev is upturned by James & Co. and his underwear is revealed, that should have been a clue that he wasn't a Pureblood?

Mr. Finnegan... Is he still around? Did he leave in terror? Did his wife kill him? Did she wipe or rewrite his memory? Does she keep him under some form of mind-control?

Maybe she used him for a coffee table. They're only there for breeding, you know, to bring strength back into the decaying WW lines.

What is the deal about 'Weatherby'?

It has nothing to do with Crouch. It just shows that Percy's a kiss-ass, making him even more contemptible.

Ludo interferes with Arthur's parenting for the sake of landing another bet.

Another instance of contempt for anyone who isn't "me."

This seems to be the Chapter of Contempt.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

We don't know what happened to Mr Finnigan after recovering from the shock of discovering he was married to a witch. Is he still around? Did he leave in terror? Did his wife kill him? Did she wipe or rewrite his memory? Does she keep him under some form of mind-control?

This is incredibly creepy, and more so when you think about how Rowling apparently doesn't realize it. Actually, I think the scariest parts of the series are the ones she didn't really mean to be that way. I was never frightened of the over-the-top villainy that was Lord Voldemort, but that people will rewrite your memories at will just because you were exposed to something you weren't supposed to see? Brrr....

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Well, I had better keep my comments about Ann Coulter to myself then. ;-)

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Has anyone ever compiled a list of things Ron knows from home vs things one would expect him to know but he doesn't? That could be an interesting insight into the home life of the Weasleys.

Like thinking that "daisies, butter mellow" etc. is an actual spell? Or that he'd have to wrestle a troll to get into Hogwarts? Did Molly not tell him?

Fred and George aren't of age yet, but their father can't stop them from gambling their entire savings. And Ludo interferes with Arthur's parenting for the sake of landing another bet. A really swell guy!

Arthur knows not to stand in the way of plot - it gave him his 5-star seats, after all.

Bagman enjoys hinting and nudging about an event at Hogwarts that would require much organizing. Whatever could that be about?

Something that involves Harold, Lord Potter, Duke of Surrey, of course.

[sunnyskywalker]

Looking back on this chapter, I REALLY want to know wtf Jo was thinking introducing Bagman and then never telling us a) whether he was a DE, Imperiused puppet, dupe, or what, or b) telling us what happened to him. He's an important secondary character for a whole book, disappears after running afoul of the goblins, who have been known to rebel and who will be sort-of allies and adversaries a few books down the line... and she can't even mention offhand that they found his body with a note saying "don't steal from goblins" in the next three books? Karkaroff got a sentence like that, so why not Bagman? Was he hiding out like Slughorn or what?

Poor Percy :( I had a theory about the Weatherby thing, which I think is compatible with Crouch still thinking of his employees as tools to be used (he's just good at using them... a bit like Dumbledore telling Harry how special he is all the time). But on the other hand, maybe he just doesn't care. Or maybe the strain of holding someone under Imperius for ten years gets to you after a while, and he's slipping even before he gets cursed himself.