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[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one a little bothered by Dumbledore? Not only with the fact he could end up in the Guinness Book Of World Records for "Most Incompetent Headmaster of All Time" (though I'm sure there's worse. :P), but also because...he just bugs me. I know JKR was trying to write him as the "flawed Yoda", so to speak (and to be fair, he's nowhere near Yoda. XD), but it's also how...preachy he gets. Towards Fudge, for example. You know, in Goblet of Fire, with, "You place too much importance on purity of blood, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera" -- which considering how he treated Tom Riddle and the Slytherins is...slightly hypocritical isn't it? Probably bad writing on JKR's part, though. :/

Anyways, sorry 'bout the rambling. Thoughts?

Comments

[sunnyskywalker]

Plus, while it certainly isn't nice, and it doesn't look like he and Obi-Wan realized exactly how many ways they had messed up, you could at least argue that Yoda was right about the need to convince everyone that Anakin was a lost cause and killing Vader was the only option, at least from a strategic standpoint. Good for Luke for proving him wrong, and risking himself to save someone's soul (in GFFA terms) is pretty heroic... but from the standpoint of everyone else in the galaxy, practically speaking it didn't matter whether Vader was sorry before he died on the Death Star II.

As for Dumbledore, even if he initially reacted in panic mode when he first met Tom ("Ack, my dark past has come back to haunt me in this kid!"), he had seven years to think about it and try a different strategy. Plus, he suspected Tom of Myrtle's death in Tom's fifth year, and Tom started flashing that Peverell ring the next year, right? Dumbledore could have put the pieces together (Peverell > Gaunt > Riddles) before Tom graduated and at least tried to prove to the Ministry that Morfin's memory had been altered, and tried to get some solid evidence against Tom for something. But he doesn't tell Harry, "Tom skipped town and became Voldemort just before I got him, darn!" But it seems like he was just sitting back watching.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*Sighs*

*This*, so very much! :D

Seriously, for a "Machivellian" (?) genius, Dumbledore's really a dumbass. DX

[sunnyskywalker]

If he were a competent Machiavellian genius, I think I'd like him. Well, like reading about him, anyway :D

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Will not pimp KOTOR II...will *not* pimp KOTOR II...

Seriously though -- *this!* I swear, either Kreia or Palpatine would look at Dumbledore and go, "Peh. Amateur." :P

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Weeeelll, I take issue with what Rowling has to say about what Horcrux came from what murder, because I seriously doubt that you can turn a Diary into a Horcrux and then continue to make *entries* into it. All of the visions that the Diary revenant showed Harry took place *after* Myrtle was killed.

And acto Albus, Tom had already killed his family the summer *before* he killed Myrtle, so he ought to have already had the Ring, even though Rowling hadn't thought of that yet, so she never showed Tom wearing a Ring until book 6.

But the issue of the Ring was further complicated by the fact that it was incised with the symbol of the Hallows Questers, and all sorts of pieces of trumpery were likely to be decked out in that. He had no way of knowing that the Ring Tom was flashing about was any more significant than old Xeno Lovegood's broach.

[sunnyskywalker]

He didn't need to know about the Horcruxes though, murder and altering memories to frame someone else ought to do it. Plus there's very few ways Myrtle could have ended up dead of no apparent cause - either an AK or something which might have been a monster from the CoS, and how many monsters kill that way? He knows Tom's a Parselmouth.

Ah, that's right, I forgot when he acquired the ring because we didn't see him wearing it until later. It would help if we knew more about the ring and its history - if it really was passed down in the family, did they keep it locked up usually, or would the setting be recognizable to any of the old guard who know which pureblood family has what artifacts? Were there similar knockoffs being sold in Diagon Alley? How long has it been since anyone besides the Gaunts (and Bob Ogden) have seen it?

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Agreed. :)

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Oh there are any number of things that Albus *might* have thought at the time -- that he never told us about. That's the beauty of keeping everything to yourself. Three-quarters of your most foolish conclusions never come to light.

What it comes across as to me is that Albus (whether he was correct or not) was sure that he knew what was going on, *and sat on the information* because he couldn't think of any simple way to *prove* it to Dippett and the Ministry's satisfaction. If he couldn't completely and publicly demolish Tom's whole pretentions -- and utterly humiliate him in the process, he wasn't going to settle for merely closing him down, or convincing him to back off until he, Albus, was out of the way.

Effectively he was Tom's accomplice throughout pretty much Tom's whole career. Sitting on the sidelines and making a moue of disapproval throughout, but aiding and abbetting all the way.

It's almost like he encouraged Tom to do his worst, so he, Albus, would feel vindicated about having refused to be Minister of Magic. "You see how awful a desire for power is. I *knew* I was right to refuse it!" And spent 50 years congratulating himself for not finding Tom attractive.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"It's almost like he encouraged Tom to do his worst, so he, Albus, would feel vindicated about having refused to be Minister of Magic. "You see how awful a desire for power is. I *knew* I was right to refuse it!" And spent 50 years congratulating himself for not finding Tom attractive."

Aaand the truth of Albus Dumbledore's folly is enough to make Anakin Skywalker shit his pants. XD

[sunnyskywalker]

Even trying to catch him on one of the mysterious nasty-but-not-fatal things that happened to people who crossed Tom might have helped. He says something vague about how there wasn't any proof... but did he even try? He really was like an accomplice.

If Dumbledore had told us he actually tried to nail Tom on something - anything, even sabotaging another student's homework - but Tom was too smart, he'd look a whole lot better. Or that Tom charmed everyone else so thoroughly that the teachers dismissed Dumbledore's report of what Mrs. Cole said as exaggerations by a woman who obviously didn't like him, or maybe any children, and anything Tom said about being able to hurt kids who crossed him as childish bravado in the face of the first wizard he'd ever met or something.

He does seem to want to prove everything all at once, but sheesh, Dumbledore, don't you know how investigations work? (Well, probably not...) You start with one thing, and it leads to other things. Sometimes witnesses start coming forward once the ball gets rolling.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"
If Dumbledore had told us he actually tried to nail Tom on something - anything, even sabotaging another student's homework - but Tom was too smart, he'd look a whole lot better. Or that Tom charmed everyone else so thoroughly that the teachers dismissed Dumbledore's report of what Mrs. Cole said as exaggerations by a woman who obviously didn't like him, or maybe any children, and anything Tom said about being able to hurt kids who crossed him as childish bravado in the face of the first wizard he'd ever met or something.

He does seem to want to prove everything all at once, but sheesh, Dumbledore, don't you know how investigations work? (Well, probably not...) You start with one thing, and it leads to other things. Sometimes witnesses start coming forward once the ball gets rolling."

*This*, just this! :)

[sunnyskywalker]

And she wouldn't even have had to gone into detail about it - just have Dumbledore say the teachers didn't believe him after they'd met Tom and that none of his efforts to pin anything on Tom worked. The end! It's baffling, really.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

I know, right? Seriously, when *we* can think up a better way the plot could have gone -- *you're doing it wrong*.

(Seriously, that should be an icon. "Plotting -- you're doing it wrong")

[sunnyskywalker]

Tom was pretty obviously good at memory modification by about age 15, so why couldn't Dumbledore have specifically noticed that students didn't remember what happened during those mysterious incidents? I doubt the other teachers would condone trying to break a memory charm they weren't even sure existed based on Dumbledore's gut (quite reasonably too), so that would have stopped the investigations right there.

I would love to see the original manuscripts after her editors sent them back with comments. Did they do as much as they could given time constraints and/or their power relative to JKR's (and if so, just imagine the unedited version!), or did they think too much like her to catch more of these things, or what?

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

As would I! :D

And the memory modification thing...actually works pretty well. :)

[oryx_leucoryx]

If Rowling really wanted us to see Dumbles as smart and wise wrt Tom she made a mistake when she chose him to have been the teacher who met him at the orphanage. Have Merrythought (or anyone) bring Tom his letter and remain silent about him, then Albus starting to suspect but not having enough information to go on is believable and doesn't paint him negatively. Then when she realizes that Tom may have been the one behind the attacks on students Merrythought retires and hides in shame and guilt, and only comes forward with what she learned at the orphanage after Tom is back and running a war against the wizarding world. This way Albus can actually be a brilliant sleuth who was missing a key piece of evidence. But the canon way just makes him an accomplice and enabler of Tom.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Holy crap, *this*! :D

(Seriously, why hasn't someone written an HBP do-over already? :D)