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[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one a little bothered by Dumbledore? Not only with the fact he could end up in the Guinness Book Of World Records for "Most Incompetent Headmaster of All Time" (though I'm sure there's worse. :P), but also because...he just bugs me. I know JKR was trying to write him as the "flawed Yoda", so to speak (and to be fair, he's nowhere near Yoda. XD), but it's also how...preachy he gets. Towards Fudge, for example. You know, in Goblet of Fire, with, "You place too much importance on purity of blood, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera" -- which considering how he treated Tom Riddle and the Slytherins is...slightly hypocritical isn't it? Probably bad writing on JKR's part, though. :/

Anyways, sorry 'bout the rambling. Thoughts?

Comments

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

The fact that he compares bright, perky, well-loved, popular, privileged Lily, who has friends galore and a loving partner, with Merope, abused, underprivileged, with a wretched life (and I don't like what she did with the love potion, then again, it's not like we ever get her side of the story, just Dumbledore's assumptions), who was constantly beaten down and struggled for everything...unbelievable.

Yes, Harry's mother loved him enough to stand there and scream hysterically (and provide a deus ex machina love shield, but come on, I'm sure that wasn't on purpose, she didn't strive for it or anything, afaik), which was much more commendable and way more valiant than Merope's struggle on the streets in winter to find shelter for her baby even as her strength was giving out.

[sunnyskywalker]

Yeah, it's entirely possible that Merope was an abused kid who grew up to be an abuser (although given Dumbledore's track record, it might equally well have been that Tom Sr. thought running off to London for kicks, and taking the the dumb lovesick girl at the last minute with no intention of it being a long-term thing, would be funny - who knows?). That still has no bearing on whether or not she "chose" to die in childbirth, because it's awfully hard to just up and die for no physical reason. All we know is that she did not give up as soon as Tom left, but made a valiant effort to ensure that her child would be safe and cared for. How does this have anything in common with Lily's situation, basically being caught in a home invasion/assassination scenario where she probably thought it was hopeless but would make the gesture anyway because it was all she could do?

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*Nothing*, of course!

Some people on TV Tropes would make the case that "if Lily was selfish, why would she die for her son" -- in all honesty, it wasn't bravery. It was fear. What Voldemort did to her and James was senseless -- if pragmatic -- slaughter that Dumbledore set up so he could later use Harry as a...*thinks* What's the distaff equivalent of the word "damsel"?

As harsh as it may sound, Lily was a damsel. Nothing more, nothing less. Merope held out for her son long enough to get him to some place where he could be nurtured and cared for. The two of those have nothing to do with one another. I think I could have bought this scenario if (a) Lily had actually stood and fought while Voldemort was invading their home and (b) If Dumbledore hadn't ridiculed Merope. Hell, he could have even lightly reprimanded Harry: "Merope's strength was no less than your mother's."

But of course, he needs Harry to play the male damsel when the time comes.

(Sorry if I sound a little harsh, BTW, but the deeper we get into Dumbledore's mindset...*Sighs* Anyone want some drinks?)

[sunnyskywalker]

I have some sympathy for Lily, in that if Voldemort really was so ridiculously powerful and she knew he was prone to throwing AKs, there wasn't a whole lot she could do once she ran out of furniture to throw in front of them (I'm assuming she didn't Apparate out because they had Hogwarts-style anti-Apparition wards up that she didn't have time to take down or something). So in that sense, she knew it was hopeless, and took the one extremely slim chance she saw and made the only gesture she could.

Which still leaves her as basically a damsel in distress, and in a situation nothing like Merope's.

Plus of course Lily and James, being young and apparently way too trusting, probably thought that Dumbledore would do a better job of protecting them. Like, catch the traitor quickly, being a master Legilimens and all.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/That still has no bearing on whether or not she "chose" to die in childbirth, because it's awfully hard to just up and die for no physical reason./

Why do I get the feeling that JKR has the same view of dying in childbirth as George Lucas does? -_-

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"Why do I get the feeling that JKR has the same view of dying in childbirth as George Lucas does? -_-"

That's a little harsh, but...I'll take it. :3

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Sorry to ask a silly question, but what are George Lucas' views on dying in childbirth?

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

Well said.
I never understood how anybody could think that Lily / Merope parallel made any sense.

Do we know was Merope accepted / went to Hogwarts? Did she had any kind of schooling at all?
If she hadn't then her abilities (brewing potion, finding an orphanage...) show that she was intelligent, adaptable and capable of taking action.

From everything we know Lily the bright, popular "world is my oyster" girl hadn't done a lot.
Oh, we hear how smart, brave and accomplished she was but what do we know/see her doing?

Not helping a friend, getting together with a bully with no plans for the future, getting a child, protection her son by pleading with a monster that she knew had no mercy (btw. where was her wand? Why both Lilly and James where wandless at the time Voldy attacked? ).
That's pretty passive. Not a lot of "strong, bold, brave" actions done by her.

Merope on the other hand, attempts to change her horrible living conditions, fights for what she wants and overcomes years of abuse to go for a dream.
Yes, she went about it in the wrong way (if she truly used a potion that is) but she did try.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"Merope on the other hand, attempts to change her horrible living conditions, fights for what she wants and overcomes years of abuse to go for a dream.
Yes, she went about it in the wrong way (if she truly used a potion that is) but she did try."

Holy crap, *this*! D:

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Merope on the other hand, attempts to change her horrible living conditions, fights for what she wants and overcomes years of abuse to go for a dream.
Yes, she went about it in the wrong way (if she truly used a potion that is) but she did try.

And that's why she's evil. Ambition is the Slytherin virtue, remember?

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately. *Sighs* 'Tis a sad world we live in...

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

Ah, yes. I forgot that.
Silly me not knowing that ambition is always evil. *roll eyes*

You have to wonder if Rowling ever truly considered how messed up message she's sending. :(

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

and I don't like what she did with the love potion, then again, it's not like we ever get her side of the story, just Dumbledore's assumptions)

Come to think of it, do we have any proof that Merope used a love potion on Tom Sr.? Or is that just Dumbledore's assumption? Sure, Tom Sr. dumped her after she got pregnant and he lost interest in her, but lots of men do that even without magic being involved.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to go with that Dumbledore was lying to Harry about Tom Riddle the whole time. It just...makes more sense that way. :)

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

I think I'm going to go with that Dumbledore was lying to Harry about Tom Riddle the whole time. It just...makes more sense that way. :)

I said on Snapedom several months ago that if you assume Dumbledore is a narcissistic psychopath, and that everything he says is a lie, the books make a whole lot more sense.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, Tom Sr supposedly also claimed to have been 'hoodwinked'. Which could be taken in all sorts of ways. For all we know, maybe he was complaining that she lied about using birth control. Or something entirely different. Or perhaps Tom Jr was right and he left because he discovered she had powers and got scared.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"Well, Tom Sr supposedly also claimed to have been 'hoodwinked'. Which could be taken in all sorts of ways. For all we know, maybe he was complaining that she lied about using birth control."

XD

Okay, you just won a freaking Internet. :3

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Well, Tom Sr supposedly also claimed to have been 'hoodwinked'. Which could be taken in all sorts of ways. For all we know, maybe he was complaining that she lied about using birth control. Or something entirely different. Or perhaps Tom Jr was right and he left because he discovered she had powers and got scared.

What birth control? Tom Jr. was born in 1925. The only birth control they had back then was the pessary (diaphragm) and condom. As for Tom Sr's being conned, again, that's something men have said many times without magic being involved. "You tricked me into marriage!" "You're not the person I thought you were!" And so on.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

do we have any proof that Merope used a love potion on Tom Sr.?

EXACTLY. This series is so weak with the way it constantly presents speculation as proven fact. Merope gets condemned for something we don't even know she did! I mean, was the girl educated at all? I don't think so, not from the way she was derided as a 'Squib' and the abusive home she was in, doubt she'd be afforded that opportunity. So...how's she supposed to brew this special potion? Or get the ingredients for it?

Tom Sr. dumped her after she got pregnant and he lost interest in her, but lots of men do that even without magic being involved.

Good point. I'm glad other people are willing to critically re-examine the situation without the Harry-filter clouding their judgment and accepting Dumbledore's word as law. *eyeroll*

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

I...well said, borg_princess. Well said. :)

Trust me, I think the lack of logic in HP would be enough to make Jon Stewart shit his pants. :P

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Yes, Harry's mother loved him enough to stand there and scream hysterically (and provide a deus ex machina love shield, but come on, I'm sure that wasn't on purpose, she didn't strive for it or anything, afaik)

Not only that, but Lily was no ordinary young woman. She was a trained warrior, an Order of the Phoenix member. She had probably been in battle before. Yet when she was attacked by someone she knew was on the hunt for her and her family, and who had given her warning by killing her husband, she just stood there and begged for mercy, like some Muggle picked at random off the street. How stupid is that?

I've heard children inherit their intelligence from their mothers. That appears to be true in Harry's case.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

That's why the scene of the Potters' death in DH was so disappointing to me. Just the way that James and Lily had been built up throughout the series as these martyrs and war heroes led me to believe that they had fought bravely during the night of their deaths. Heck, even *Voldemort* told Harry in PS/SS that James and Lily were brave and that James had put up a heroic fight.

And what do we get in DH? Voldemort bursting inside, James running to fight him without a wand and getting killed in two minutes, and Lily shrieking and doing nothing to save herself other than trying to barricade the room and pleading with Voldemort. She didn't have her wand on her, she didn't try to hex him, she didn't intentionally trick him or anything. And she was supposedly a member of the Order? She was supposedly this precociously talented witch? You're right; she was just about as resourceful and useful in that fight as that poor Muggle woman with kids in DH was.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"And what do we get in DH? Voldemort bursting inside, James running to fight him without a wand and getting killed in two minutes, and Lily shrieking and doing nothing to save herself other than trying to barricade the room and pleading with Voldemort. She didn't have her wand on her, she didn't try to hex him, she didn't intentionally trick him or anything. And she was supposedly a member of the Order? She was supposedly this precociously talented witch? You're right; she was just about as resourceful and useful in that fight as that poor Muggle woman with kids in DH was."

I think Rowling didn't include the "fighting bravely" thing in the DH flashback because it would be too awesome/interesting. :P

[sunnyskywalker]

I would buy it if Lily had made the calculated decision that she couldn't defeat the most powerful dark wizard ever magically, and any fighting would only risk the one chance she had to get mercy for Harry. But we have no evidence whatsoever that that's what she was doing.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"Not only that, but Lily was no ordinary young woman. She was a trained warrior, an Order of the Phoenix member. She had probably been in battle before. Yet when she was attacked by someone she knew was on the hunt for her and her family, and who had given her warning by killing her husband, she just stood there and begged for mercy, like some Muggle picked at random off the street. How stupid is that?

I've heard children inherit their intelligence from their mothers. That appears to be true in Harry's case."

Must not laugh...must not laugh...

What the hell; you win a free Internet. XD