(no subject)

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one a little bothered by Dumbledore? Not only with the fact he could end up in the Guinness Book Of World Records for "Most Incompetent Headmaster of All Time" (though I'm sure there's worse. :P), but also because...he just bugs me. I know JKR was trying to write him as the "flawed Yoda", so to speak (and to be fair, he's nowhere near Yoda. XD), but it's also how...preachy he gets. Towards Fudge, for example. You know, in Goblet of Fire, with, "You place too much importance on purity of blood, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera" -- which considering how he treated Tom Riddle and the Slytherins is...slightly hypocritical isn't it? Probably bad writing on JKR's part, though. :/

Anyways, sorry 'bout the rambling. Thoughts?

Comments

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"I think all of that could have been interesting had Rowling actually intended it. But I don't think she wanted her readers to see Dumbledore as anything but good. He is not good, precisely because he is not aware of his own sinfulness. Snape? Now, he is good. He's capable of repentance, as Dumbledore is not."

Someone really ought to send this to TV Tropes. Seriously, guys? *That's* why people side with the Slytherins. :D

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I like tv tropes, but I can't take reading it when it comes to HP. For instance, on Snape:

he also was so incredibly bitter over his (admittedly bad) experiences in school that he was willing to sell out his first and only love's husband and child in exchange to have her spared from death, and is bit him bad in the ass later as she dies anyway, and his Heel Face Turn comes from having to assume the huge screw-up that such an action was.

the fangirls love him. They really love him. Enough to write reams of erotic fanfiction about him. Enough also to ignore the anti-racism and anti-classism message in the books to bash Lily Evans for cutting off their friendship when he calls her "mudblood" in public and to her very face. Rabid fans Snape are terrifying in the extremes they'll reach to excuse Snape's worst traits and actions

•Jerkass Woobie: He suffered abuse from his parents and was bullied mercilessly by his peers. However, LOTS of the suffering he did go through was a result of his own actions and choices.

•Like Father Like Son: Subverted and played straight. It's pretty obvious that Snape would never physically harm his students (his threats are empty; anyone whose parents ever threatened to "beat your ass bloody!" and never did could see that in an instant), but he's got no problems tearing them down verbally. The really sad part is, if he hadn't pushed Lily away and she'd fallen for him instead of James, he would have succeeded in ''not'' turning out like Tobias.

•Not So Different: While he never realizes it, there are more than a few parallels between himself and Sirius Black...bot refused to let go of schoolboy grudges. And, let's face it, they're both noble assholes.

•What Could Have Been: According to Rowling, if Snape had chosen Lily's friendship over the Death Eaters, his life would have turned out completely differently.

I...can't even begin to dissect the fail that makes up their opinion of Snape.

First, the idea that he 'sold out' James and Harry...er, the girl he loves was in mortal danger, who'd realistically stop to consider the guy that bullied them for years and a baby? I'm sure I'm not the only one who doesn't really think of babies as...y'know, having character and personality and being a presence. Certainly not going to occur to me when I'm in a panic over the fate of someone I care about. (All babie are alike to me, I see no difference until they're like, three or four)

Second, the idea that he had a CHOICE about the dissolution of his friendship with Lily. It was pretty obvious she didn't care about him- smirking at his humiliation and suffering, throwing it in his face how her friends don't like him, telling him James is a hero and he should thank him instead of being concerned that he nearly died, etc.

Third, that he DESERVED TO BE BULLIED. UGH.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Enough also to ignore the anti-racism and anti-classism message in the books to bash Lily Evans for cutting off their friendship when he calls her "mudblood" in public and to her very face./

And these guys love James and Lily so much that they ignore James’ shameless bullying of Snape and Lily’s disloyal and shallow behavior to bash Snape for insulting Lily after she tried not to smile and ignored him while he was being humiliated in public and was trying not to choke.

And “anti-classism?” What do you think James’ disdain of Snape came from, aside from Snape’s desire to go into Slytherin and his interest in the Dark Arts (whatever they are)? We sure never heard of James targeting Lucius or any of Sirius’ cousins.

/However, LOTS of the suffering he did go through was a result of his own actions and choices./

If they’re talking about his suffering as a result of him joining the Death Eaters, then yes, that was a result of his own choices. He did choose to join Voldemort, no question about it. But if they’re talking about him being bullied…no. Just no. Nobody deserves to be bullied. And they can argue that it’s because Snape had dabbled in the Dark Arts all they want, but the problem is that we don’t see any of that in the text. We just hear about it - through the Half-Blood Prince’s book and through Snape’s use of Sectusempra. We don’t see Snape torturing anybody. We don’t see him harassing Muggle-born students. And when Lily unleashes her tirade against him, she only says that it’s his *friends* who are bullying Muggle-born students and using Dark magic. She never says that Snape himself has been doing any of that.

/The really sad part is, if he hadn't pushed Lily away and she'd fallen for him instead of James, he would have succeeded in ''not'' turning out like Tobias./

Uh, guys? I think that Lily pushed *him* away. You know, when she laughed at his humiliation, flounced on him when he snapped back at her, refused to listen to his apology, claimed that he should be grateful to his bully, didn’t care that he almost died as a result of whatever James saved him from, refused to let him explain himself, and then walked out on him.

And I love the implication that the only thing that would keep Snape from being a Death Eater would be if Lily loved him back. Isn’t that the sort of thing that Lily fans accuse Snapefen of doing? Blaming Lily for Snape joining the Death Eaters because of the belief that all a man needs to straighten himself out is the love of a woman? Honestly, I don’t think that Snape would be happier if Lily agreed to date him. We saw how she treated him when they were supposedly best friends. How would she have treated him if they were a couple?

/What Could Have Been: According to Rowling, if Snape had chosen Lily's friendship over the Death Eaters, his life would have turned out completely differently./

Really? His life would have changed completely? Instead of being ignored by his supposed best friend while he was being bullied, he would have been…continuously ignored by his supposed best friend while he was being bullied. Lily had already shown him how much their friendship meant to her. She was *not* a good friend. *She* walked out on *him.* She chose James over their friendship. What was Snape supposed to do after that? How could he have chosen the friendship of someone who no longer wanted anything to do with him, who betrayed him because she fancied his bully? Grovel and let himself be bullied by James again? It was a no-win situation for him.

The HMS_STFU is guilty of this as well...

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

WARNING: Long overdue rant. Proceed with caution. XD

I think what kills me the most is when they bitch about ROSE POTTER. Seriously, guys? It's okay to criticize the fic, but calling Rose Potter worse than Voldemort? Ha-DOI! (And by that I mean *Harry's* worse than Voldemort) Carving words on Ron's forehead? Like canon!Harry hasn't Crucioed a defenseless man for spitting on his teacher or smirked at a girl who had the word SNEAK tattooed on her forehead for betraying the Holy Leader? Seriously, he says words similar to Rosy's in the original book; basically, "I hope that leaves a scar." (To be fair, he *threw* the badge at Ron instead of carving it into his head, but you get the picture) No one calls out Rosy on her douchebaggery? Well, no one calls out Harry on his douchebaggery either. He's not a saint, he's not a hero...he's a fraud. He's a posturing child. Unfortunately, I doubt the hms_stfu would get that if I did a little interpretive dance for them. :P

And maybe I'm being oversensitive, but I think they're mostly picking on Rosy because (a) they worship JKR or (b) it's because Rosy's female. I know it's a flimsy excuse, but it really seems to be the case. Boys being aggressive? A-OK. Girls being aggressive -- "get back in the kitchen where you belong, bee-otch!" I mean...I won't deny that ROSE POTTER'S poorly written, but I can't help but feel a sort of Double Standard/sexism when dealing with the fic in question.

Feel free to disagree. :)

Re: The HMS_STFU is guilty of this as well...

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

I've never read any of the Rose Potter fanfics; I've only heard about them. I have heard that Rose is extremely vicious and sociopathic, and that she does bully and torment Ron a lot of the time. If all of that is true, then she deserves all of the criticism that she gets. But if people can't see the similarities between Rose's mutilation of Ron and Hermione's disfigurement of Marietta, then I just don't know what to say.

As for their criticism of Rose because she's aggressive (although perhaps aggressive is the wrong word to use, if she is indeed as monstrous as I hear), well...to be fair, HBP!Ginny is very aggressive as well, and I know that a lot of people in this community don't like her. I don't know how much of their hatred for Rose Potter is because of her gender as it is for her personality.

But I will say that one of the reasons why I dislike the term "Mary Sue" (which I've frequently seen Rose Potter labeled with) and the frequent usage of the term is because I feel that female characters tend to be unfairly picked on much more than male characters, be they canon or OCs. So, you may have a point there about Rose's treatment.

Re: The HMS_STFU is guilty of this as well...

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Maybe. :/

I guess it was stuff like "hey look, Harry's name comes after Voldemort in the original sentence of GOF. JKR's a genius!1!" that kind of got my inner stupid alarm blaring. Especially when they try to use it to justify how OMGselfless Harry is. *Bang bang bang*

As for mutilating Marietta vs. mutilating Ron, I think it's mostly...yeah, Double Standard.

"But I will say that one of the reasons why I dislike the term "Mary Sue" (which I've frequently seen Rose Potter labeled with) and the frequent usage of the term is because I feel that female characters tend to be unfairly picked on much more than male characters, be they canon or OCs."

*This*.

And thank you. :)

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*This*, just this! >:(

(Sorry, I'm pissed at TV Tropes. Not you. :)

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

That was for borg_princess, BTW. :)

[sunnyskywalker]

I also can't get over people agreeing with the Marauders that it's a "schoolboy grudge." A schoolboy grudge is when you don't get over that kid calling you names and pushing over your bike and nothing else - NOT still being upset about ATTEMPTED MURDER which your own headmaster covered up and which your best friend wouldn't even believe was a serious threat because she believes the attempted murderer's best friend's version.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*This*, just this! :D

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Exactly! It's ridic how they don't think Snape has a legitimate reason to be angry and hurt about what happened to him. And to equate their 'grudges'- um, so what was Sirius' grudge? Snape was bullied and then almost died...Sirius? Well, like James, he just hated Snape for existing. How is that- just- ugh! You can't compare the two!

[sunnyskywalker]

If they were genuinely repentant, then I could see a reason for him to forgive them - but they're as bad as ever! Sirius flat-out says Snape "deserved" to be eaten by a werewolf in OotP, after having had years to think about it. (And even if he feels no sympathy for Snape, what about the fact that he had also set up Lupin to go to Azkaban? That prank was a bad idea in so many ways.) And Lupin resists taking his potion.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Oh God yes...that Wolfsbane thing in PoA bugged the crap out of me. D:

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

That is terrible in so many ways. Really, TV Tropes? I thought you were better than that.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Well, they have their moments of brilliance and their moments of "WTFIWWY". The Snape thing is...definitely one of them. :/

HP Lexicon is Anti-Snape, Too

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

On the much-touted Lexicon their list of half-bloods includes everybody except Snape--even though he has a book named after him.

Even worse, they deliberately lie about SWM. This is what they say about Scourgify: "James Potter used this spell to "wash out" Snape's mouth when the latter called Lily a Mudblood just after their Defence Against the Dark Arts O.W.L. (OP28)." This makes it look like James was gallantly (like father, like son) defending poor suffering Lily's honor from that awful bigot Snape, when what really happened was that Snape was attacked with Scourgify before Lily even came on the scene. This is a serious and significant whitewash of James's bullying (no pun intended).

In January of last year, I sent them a polite email in which I pointed out these errors. They neither responded nor corrected them. I therefore have to assume they've decided to deliberately lie by both omission and commission.

*Sarcasm failure*

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

I...I'm so sorry. D: *Hugs you *and* Snape*

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

And then there's the fact that to hold Dumbledore as morally questionable you have to compare him *directly* with Snape- something along the lines of "Snape is a jerk but so is Dumbledore in his own way". I've tried getting Dumbledore on the Jerk Stu page with no luck. And not to mention, while both Severus and James are on the Ron the Death Eater page, with Severus it's "You know, maybe he really isn't as big of an asshole as some people claim," while for James it's "You can't really blame him too much because he's a fiercely loyal friend and a hero!"

Also, "anti-racism and anti-classism messages?" I'm sure that explains why none of the wizards, good or bad, ever treat nonmagic folk as anything more than retarded morons at best or animals at worst!

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

TV Tropes has a very strong Gryffindor bias. 'Nuff said. :P

I'm probably going to sound silly, but what are your reasons for Dumbledore being on the Jerk Stu page? (Mostly want to hear your perspective. :)

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

Well, mostly because he was a jerk (no need to explain that) and yet he also happened to be the most powerful and influential wizard in the world, who was gifted from a young age and whom everyone who is anyone adored; and anyone who didn't throw themselves at his feet was portrayed as delusional at best and ended up humiliated, dead, or else crawling to his feet.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

This! :D

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

I hate that. Dumbledore's such an asshole but people are fooled by his facade. I admit, I was as well, but by DH, you think people would've seen through it! But they still idolize the man! I cringed so hard when Evanna Lynch, whom I otherwise like, said Dumbledore's her favorite character and she painted a mural of him in her room. *headdesk*

Sucks that you can't get DD on the Jerk Stu page, he deserves it.

And I hate the double standard- James gets excused away with 'he was a kid, Snape provoked him (HE ASKED TO BE BULLIED, OKAY?) and he grew up (what evidence is there of that?!)' but Snape suffers a lifetime of humiliation and abuse and they can't understand why he's a bitter, sarcastic man.

And I lol at the whole 'racism' message of the series- you really can't legitimately compare Muggle-borns and black oppression, not any more than the house-elf issue is relatable to slavery. And you hit the nail on the head- all these wizards, heroes especially, look down on Muggles, but that's never viewed as discrimination. Ugh, this series makes me so sick.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*This*! :D