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[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one a little bothered by Dumbledore? Not only with the fact he could end up in the Guinness Book Of World Records for "Most Incompetent Headmaster of All Time" (though I'm sure there's worse. :P), but also because...he just bugs me. I know JKR was trying to write him as the "flawed Yoda", so to speak (and to be fair, he's nowhere near Yoda. XD), but it's also how...preachy he gets. Towards Fudge, for example. You know, in Goblet of Fire, with, "You place too much importance on purity of blood, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera" -- which considering how he treated Tom Riddle and the Slytherins is...slightly hypocritical isn't it? Probably bad writing on JKR's part, though. :/

Anyways, sorry 'bout the rambling. Thoughts?

Comments

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

even *Voldemort* told Harry in PS/SS that James and Lily were brave and that James had put up a heroic fight.

Wow. I did not remember that. Evidently JKR forgot as well. No surprise there, canon established in one book is tossed out the window when she does the next. Wtf kind of terrible author is she, and only a select group of people recognize it, argh, it drives me nuts.

People defend her by saying that she wanted to make it realistic, two young adults against a psychopath, what chance did they have, oh, the cruelty of life, etc. but...they were members of the OotP! They defied Voldy three times apparently! They knew their lives were in danger! You think they'd've taken precautions, trained for the worst case scenario, something! I guess we see where Harry inherited his slackness from, the way he sits around all summer and doesn't even learn to heal a paper-cut when he knows he's going to be at the forefront of a war is honestly earned. *eyeroll*

Also, it's annoying how many things Lily could've done. Retrieved her wand while James held off Voldy by dying stupidly nobly and fought. Jumped out the window and run for it. Maybe it'd be hopeless, but it'd be a chance! More than standing and screaming!

Isn't this the witch who was so talented she had mastered wandless magic as a kid, was able to control magic rather than release it in uncontrolled bursts like normal kids? She wasn't able to do anything? Except MORONICALLY, OMG, THE STUPID, IT SLAYS ME ask for Voldy to kill her instead. Yeah, she obv knows he's there for Harry- why the hell would he come there for the boy and then kill her and leave him alone?

ARGH.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

Yes, Voldemort said something along the lines of, “Yes, boy, your parents were brave. I killed your father first – he put up a tremendous fight. But your mother needn’t have died; she was only trying to protect you.”

Where in that story did Voldemort imply that James had run at him without a wand and had died in five seconds? Where in that account did Voldemort imply that Lily had done nothing but shriek at him and beg for mercy? Why on earth would Voldemort, who’s supposed to be evil beyond measure and who’s trying to kill Harry, lie to him to make him feel better about his parents? What motivation would he have for doing so?

/Isn't this the witch who was so talented she had mastered wandless magic as a kid, was able to control magic rather than release it in uncontrolled bursts like normal kids?/

Just like Tom was. Yet when it came time for the final showdown, she wasn’t able to do anything to defend herself against him. I was confused and disappointed too. We were told so many times about how clever and powerful Lily was, yet when we finally saw her in action, she didn’t use any of her magic at all. Where was her wand?

/Yeah, she obv knows he's there for Harry- why the hell would he come there for the boy and then kill her and leave him alone?/

This is the same reason why I thought that Bella Swan’s “sacrifice” in “Twilight” was stupid. After James, the villain, tells Bella to come to him or her mother will die, Bella just obeys his orders without question. Somehow, she just thinks that James will let her mother go as soon as she arrives. Never mind that James is a vampire and there’s nothing to stop him from killing Bella’s mother after he’s done with Bella, making Bella’s sacrifice completely pointless.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Why on earth would Voldemort, who’s supposed to be evil beyond measure and who’s trying to kill Harry, lie to him to make him feel better about his parents? What motivation would he have for doing so?


Well, he did need something Harry had. Perhaps he was hoping that would convince Harry to give him the Philosophers' Stone? He did tell Harry that he should give him the Stone so his parents wouldn't have died in vain - so it seems Tom was attempting to put up his old charm from his school days. But he obviously lost much of his charisma and brains when he vaporised.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

That, or the fact that Voldemort's reserved some of his Affably Evilness. *Some*, that is. (GoF, even DH) Sadly, Rowling didn't explore some of his more redeemable traits; ergo, he's kind of a plot device, really. :/ (Which would have worked if Dumbledore was the real villain instead, ala KOTOR II and ROTS, but instead...)

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Yet when it came time for the final showdown, she [Lily] wasn’t able to do anything to defend herself against him [Voldemort]. I was confused and disappointed too. We were told so many times about how clever and powerful Lily was, yet when we finally saw her in action, she didn’t use any of her magic at all. Where was her wand?

OTOH, if Lily's putative awesomeness and power was 90% BS, that would explain why she didn't do much to rescue Snape besides nag James and Sirius. She wasn't able to rescue him.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Maybe Dumbledore slipped her some stupid pills on one of his visits to Godric's Hollow? I mean...he definitely needed a plot device -- I mean *sacrificial lamb* to carry out his wishes. Couldn't let poor Lily get in the way. :P

[sunnyskywalker]

The fact that she put kid Lily using wandless magic and then Lily being magically helpless without her wand in the same book is just mind boggling. In fact, since the wandless magic we see her do is slowing her fall, jumping out the window could have been the perfect escape - she just needs to grab Harry and jump out far enough to get past the anti-Apparition wards that are probably in place, and then slow her fall when she lands wherever.

If Rowling intended for Voldemort to be so ridiculously powerful that no one stood a chance (and it's implied as much I think in book 1), then she should have hinted somehow that Voldemort was lying when he told Harry they put up a fight. And, you know, made Voldemort scarier in the rest of the series.

If on the other hand she was going for what looks like the solution that fits most of the pieces - that Lily was trying to delay for a few minutes so the cavalry could come, and since we see that Dumbledore is able to send someone within minutes of their deaths it seems reasonable that they know the Order is monitoring the house and will show up if something's wrong - she should have said so! I know they're all lacking in common sense and so in RowlingLand, it's more likely that Dumbledore was monitoring secretly and the Potters hadn't set up any magical alerts to let their best buddies Sirius and Peter (and Remus?) know if something was wrong so they could come help, but how much are we supposed to swallow here?

[sunnyskywalker]

Come to think of it, if she wanted to go the "Voldemort is just too powerful" route, it would have been better if Voldemort had never intended to keep his promise to Snape. He just came in, Lily reflexively shouted, "Not Harry, please!" and then he zapped her with no additional fuss, the end.

Because why would he waste time bargaining and trying to get her to stand aside, even for a minute? Yet he does.

Warning: *Shameless* ATLA plug below. XD

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Good point. :)

Or if Lily had actually tried to put up a fight. Sort of like, say, Katara when Zuko arrives in the Spirit Oasis with the intention of capturing Aang (mostly to regain his honor after his father banished him -- it's a long story). Instead of just standing there and pleading with Zuko not to get Aang, Katara actively *uses her skills against him* to keep him from capturing Aang (which unfortunately didn't end up in the live action movie for...some reason). Granted, Katara's later defeated by Zuko when the sun comes up (because, you know, waterbenders draw their power from the moon, and firebenders draw it from the sun), but the intent is worthy of admiration. There's no doubt that she was scared, but to quote John Wayne, "Courage is being scared to death, and yet saddling up anyway."

Granted, one could argue they were in different circumstances (Katara being in her element -- no pun intended -- and Lily...not), but like Lily, Katara was basically all alone against Zuko. Lily *knew* what Voldemort was capable of; why didn't she transport Harry to safety, then just pull a You Shall Not Pass on good old Voldemort. I mean...she and James *thrice defied him*, for Christ's sake!

What do you guys think? :)

Re: Warning: *Shameless* ATLA plug below. XD

[sunnyskywalker]

I wonder what "thrice defied" even means? Did Voldemort have some elaborate plot, and Lily and James blundered in and stole his MacGuffin or took out a key henchman, and that ruined his plans? ("Curses, foiled again! Those meddling kids!") Or did they actually fight him? It seems like we're supposed to think no one fought Voldemort and lived during the first war, but maybe it's an exaggeration.

Re: Warning: *Shameless* ATLA plug below. XD

[sunnyskywalker]

Or maybe he sent them three engraved invitations to join the dark side, and they tossed them in the trash XD

Re: Warning: *Shameless* ATLA plug below. XD

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

You win a free Internet. XD

Re: Warning: *Shameless* ATLA plug below. XD

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Didn't JKR say in an interview that this was pretty much the case for the first defiance? Maybe the other two were like Walter Koenig's explanation for how Khan remembers Chekov despite Chekov not being in the episode featuring Khan. (Chekov was in the bathroom and Khan was waiting desperately outside, and when he finally got in he discovered Chekov had used the last of the toilet paper. Khan swore never to forget this.)

Re: Warning: *Shameless* ATLA plug below. XD

[sunnyskywalker]

That's the funniest retcon ever! Yes, the Potters bought the last Fizzing Whizbees from Honeydukes, there wouldn't be another shipment for a week, and Voldemort needed that candy today, dammit! Some things just cannot be borne.

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

Wow. I did not remember that. Evidently JKR forgot as well. No surprise there, canon established in one book is tossed out the window when she does the next. Wtf kind of terrible author is she, and only a select group of people recognize it, argh, it drives me nuts.

When we are talking about "brave" James&Lilly vs Voldy fight we see and the things writen om GoF, isn't the way "shades" of people Voldy killed getting out of his wand inconsistent with the way they died?

DD tells Harry that they come in the order they died (the most resent murder toward older ones) but Shade!James appear before Shade!Lilly!
As she was murdered after him shouldn't she been the next after Cedric to say "Hi, Harry! Your deus ex machina is here to save you!" :(

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Good point. *Shakes head* Crazy, crazy canon... :P

[sunnyskywalker]

I think it was reversed in a later edition once someone pointed that out. Which only confuses things more, because if you can't even trust the book you're reading to stay the same...