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[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one a little bothered by Dumbledore? Not only with the fact he could end up in the Guinness Book Of World Records for "Most Incompetent Headmaster of All Time" (though I'm sure there's worse. :P), but also because...he just bugs me. I know JKR was trying to write him as the "flawed Yoda", so to speak (and to be fair, he's nowhere near Yoda. XD), but it's also how...preachy he gets. Towards Fudge, for example. You know, in Goblet of Fire, with, "You place too much importance on purity of blood, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera" -- which considering how he treated Tom Riddle and the Slytherins is...slightly hypocritical isn't it? Probably bad writing on JKR's part, though. :/

Anyways, sorry 'bout the rambling. Thoughts?

Comments

[sunnyskywalker]

Hm, not sure it says for sure either way, but I don't think it ever said the Potters stayed in the village for all that time or that James grew up there, and we know Dumbledore did live there and conceivably could have the house handy for the Order. And I assumed that anyone going into hiding would move into a different house even if they were putting it under Fidelius, because someone could still blow up the location even if they couldn't see the house. But then, they weren't too sensible about any of this...

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately. :/

After all, IITS. ;-)

[sunnyskywalker]

I think I've reached the point where I just throw up my hands. I can accept a certain amount of confusion about what really happened and characters making a few egregiously obvious mistakes - people do - but this whole mess is just too much, and too obviously contrived.

I think I'm going to assume that Voldemort's "memory" of that night is actually the way he reimagined it because he's such a narcissist that he doesn't even want to remember anything halfway smart the Potters did. That clears up a lot.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"I think I'm going to assume that Voldemort's "memory" of that night is actually the way he reimagined it because he's such a narcissist that he doesn't even want to remember anything halfway smart the Potters did. That clears up a lot."

0.0.

Holy shit...that actually makes sense. After all, Harry *was* in Voldemort's head when he was having that vision; Voldemort was probably just using their bond to f*k with him. (He did it to lure Harry to the Ministry of Magic in OOTP, so it's not far off)

And all I can say is that Spock icon is gold. :3

[sunnyskywalker]

Even if Voldemort didn't know Harry might be watching, he could still have rewritten it for himself because he's just that disdainful of everyone else.

It's a very useful icon! I got it over at fantastipink somewhere, can't remember the details.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"Even if Voldemort didn't know Harry might be watching, he could still have rewritten it for himself because he's just that disdainful of everyone else."

That too. :)

"It's a very useful icon! I got it over at fantastipink somewhere, can't remember the details."

Awesome! :D

I just love the look on Spock's face. ^__^

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

...and we know Dumbledore did live there and conceivably could have the house handy for the Order.

Didn't the Dumbledores live next to Bathilda Bagshot, too? Or was she just a nosy neighborhood witch, not necessarily next door?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, it is implied by Albus that James inherited the cloak ultimately from Ignotus, and Ignotus is buried in Godric's Hollow. I don't think the ruined home is the same place where Kendra relocated her family to, because there are several houses between the ruin and Bathilda's cottage, whereas it seems Kendra and the kids lived next door to Bathilda if she saw Kendra walking Ariana at night while she went picking whatever plant that was.

And I assumed that anyone going into hiding would move into a different house even if they were putting it under Fidelius, because someone could still blow up the location even if they couldn't see the house.

The moment the house goes under Fidelius it becomes unknowable to others, unless told by the Secret Keeper. (Though it isn't clear if in the Potters' case the Fidelius was on the house or on the people, nor is it clear whether the spell broke when Peter revealed the secret, when the adult Potters died or when the house was destroyed. It is described differently in each mention.) That's why even after meeting Kreacher and talking to him Narcissa doesn't know where the Order keeps its headquarters. And I'm sure Kreacher would tell her anything he was capable of telling.

The Potters were definitely living in Godric's Hollow in July, and the Fidelius was cast in late October, a week before the attack.

[sunnyskywalker]

But we also know that wizards do occasionally move from one mixed-residence village to another. Granted the Dumbledores had an unusual reason to move and maybe it isn't super-common, but over the last few centuries the Potters could have had their own reasons too (if they were so rich, they might just have wanted a bigger house). So Ignotus being in the graveyard doesn't necessarily resolve the issue one way or the other. It's also possible that the Potters moved elsewhere to a bigger house, kept their cottage in Godric's Hollow, and last century they leased it to the Dumbledores :D

If only we knew how Fidelius actually worked, and what they did! For instance, Narcissa couldn't know that it was #12, Grimmauld Place specifically - but could Kreachur have told her, "Such-and-such neighborhood has had some Order members walking about the streets" (thus technically not trying to reveal the secret, but implying), and then if she were Voldemort and just wanted them all dead, she could scale up whatever Peter did and blow up the whole neighborhood? Ditto the Potters - if the charm was on the house, and Voldemort suspected they were in Godric's Hollow because they lived there before, couldn't he just order up a tornado or something to take the whole town out?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, we know for certain the Potters lived in Godric's Hollow for at least a few months before adding the Fidelius - they did not move to a different location just before adding that protection. So if it was possible for Tom to get the entire village based on prior knowledge that the Potters once lived there they did not avoid that problem.

As for 12GP - I don't think it mattered what Kreacher said about the location of Order HQ. It was obvious he had seen both Sirius and Harry. And Narcissa used to know where Kreacher lived. But with the Fidelius she couldn't, nor was Bellatrix able to put the pieces together later on.

[sunnyskywalker]

We know from DH that the Death Eaters can remember that a hidden location must be somewhere on that street, though, once they get the information, even if they still can't see it or get in. They just lurk outside across the street. (Evidently they wanted to capture rather than kill, or they could have just blown a gas main. Unless there are anti-gas-main-explosion wards on the house.) So if Kreacher had told Bellatrix and Narcissa that McGonagall was seen walking along Grimmauld Place, they could have kept that much in their minds and concluded that the Order was operating somewhere on the street, even if they couldn't connect it to their prior, now Fidelius-removed knowledge. Maybe they just didn't think of asking specific enough questions.

[oryx_leucoryx]

In DH when the trio first arrives at 12GP the DEs aren't yet in the square, they only show up later. I think they were drawn to the place by Harry and Hermione's activation of the Taboo. But the DEs couldn't locate the Taboo-breakers because of the Fidelius.

[sunnyskywalker]

No, but if they could at least know that something was up somewhere nearby without forgetting a few minutes after the Taboo-alarm had gone off, then it should also be possible to tell someone that "those people you're interested have been seen walking along this street" and have them be able to remember that much. Likewise if it's the house in Godric's Holow that's under Fidelius, that shouldn't stop anyone from reporting if they saw the Potters walking around the town. If DEs want to get in, they're still SOL, but if all they want to do is kill everyone, they don't need to know the exact location. If someone had wanted to kill the Potters/a bunch of Order members, they could just cause massive destruction to the whole area. Or wait nearby while Disillusioned for the targets to come out. Even if they miss they still terrify the nearby Muggles, another part of the program, so there's even a consolation prize.

That seems like one of the tricks to Fidelius: it isn't set up to be user-proof. If you reveal too many circumstantial clues, you still can't technically be found, but you aren't totally safe either. The Potters didn't quite get all this, or they wouldn't have put a house under Fidelius in the same town where they'd been wandering around talking to Bathilda. If Voldemort hadn't been the kind of villain who really wants to see his targets die instead of just blowing them up from a distance, it might still have worked if it hadn't been for Peter.