Muggle-borns and Hogwarts

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

I've signed up to do this fic exchange, and the prompt I'm working with had me wondering about the procedure for admitting Muggle-borns to Hogwarts. If anyone can help me iron out a few issues or offer some speculation and theories, I'd appreciate it. ^_^

It’s so weird the way Muggle-borns are effectively emancipated from their parents once they enroll at Hogwarts. If Hermione’s any indication, that is. Maybe the rest of the kids love their parents and their Muggle heritage and we have a lopsided view because JKR has no use for anyone that isn’t dedicated to Harry.

I have to wonder, though, at the fact that Muggle-borns make it to Hogwarts at all. Look at Hermione’s parents, two dentists, presumably well-educated, sensible folk (as opposed to UFOlogists or something). They get a letter in the mail saying their daughter’s a witch and accepted to Hogwarts, here’s a list of frankly nonsensical-sounding books and they’re supposed to just send her off to complete strangers, sight unseen? Most responsible parents tour the school or at the least, look it up online, call someone to discuss their curriculum and whatnot (like my parents did when we moved to Australia). Others, who’ve lived in the area for a while and know the school’s reputation and either attended it themselves or know others who did, wouldn’t need that step, but Muggle parents are just sending their child off to a place they’ve never been, cannot go and have zero access to the teachers or their child once they’ve arrived at school.

So I ask anyone to explain to me, given these facts, how it is that there are ANY Muggle-borns at Hogwarts.

And I wonder, first, how it is that Dumbles and co knew Harry hadn’t read his letter, and second, whether they care this much about Muggle-borns. Those kids without an important prophecy hanging over their head might only get the one letter and then never be bothered by those crazy wack-jobs/probable pranksters again. (And probably for the better, they’d lead a better life in the Muggle world- I have no idea why so many fans are so eager to live in JKR’s magical world)

I also wonder if they can track underage magic by these kids before they’ve attended Hogwarts. Hermione mentions she’s practiced a few spells, presumably without any letters of warning, and Lily did her trick with the flying and the flower, also without any warnings. Yet Harry gets his letter about Hogwarts a short period after his trick with the snake. Do they perhaps have a spell that detects magic and that alerts them to send letters to the kids to tell them they can join Hogwarts? Maybe they wait for a burst of magic to confirm the kid has magic before letting them know they can come to Hogwarts. (after all, does the magical that quill notes down kids who are to attend Hogwarts take Squibs into account? It might pick POTENTIAL future students. Otherwise, wouldn’t Neville’s family have demanded to know whether his name was on the books and left off tormenting and abusing the poor kid? If they were assured of his future, they wouldn't have tortured him and given him issues with his magic)

Then again, maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe the letters get sent out at a certain time every year- in which case it’s rather cruel if a kid manifested magic early and is going nuts because they don’t know what’s happening to them. Sure, Lily seems proud of her magical abilities, but another child or their family might think they’re possessed by the Devil or something evil and get beaten up or locked up in a mental institution or any number of awful things.

I’m still curious why Hermione and Lily get away with their magic, however, when Harry’s uncontrolled, wandless magic in PoA apparently got the attention of the Accidental Magic Reversal Department. I mean, I know what happened there was serious, I just mean they can obviously track wandless magic, which means they would know about Hermione and Lily- unless it’s something that’s only put in place after they attend Hogwarts?

PS. How did Hermione get her textbooks? Harry had Hagrid to show him the way to Diagon Alley but he was a special case. I know some fanfics have professors go and personally visit families, but then in that case, why didn’t they do that with Harry? (I read someone say that if Snape had gone to collect him, the Dursleys would’ve seen his cold, harsh manner and been delighted to let Harry go off with him. But no, we had to have that frakwit Hagrid go and abuse them because it’s SO FUNNY when a grown man injures a little kid, dying of laughter right now. Side-rant: bloody hypocrites, that think Hagrid attacking Dudley and not!Moody attacking Draco is a good laugh but oh, that Snape, HE’s the real child-abuser)

PPS. Random, but in my head!canon, Harry and Hermione start a primary school for Muggle-born and wizarding kids so they can grow up together and the former can learn about this society they'll be part of and the latter can overcome the prejudices that are otherwise entrenched in them about the Other by the time they meet these kids. Plus, Muggle parents can get to see their kids, also learn about the wizarding world and have their questions and anxieties dealt with, and wizarding folk can get over their ignorance and see Muggles as human beings, too. (Yeah, I know this'd never happen with canon!H&Hr but I like to daydream)

PPS. Yes, I know, this is getting ridiculous, but I just remembered an enjoyable fic I read which had Snape going to meet the Grangers:

"Dr. Granger?"

He spoke with a strange accent, in clipped, economical tones.

I narrowed my eyes. "Yes, how can I help you?"

He inclined his head slightly and said, "I am here to deliver a missive to Miss Hermione Granger."

Missive? Who says that nowadays? And why the devil would he be delivering a letter to Jeanie?

I raised the arm that I was bracing against the entryway slightly higher and asked pointedly, "My daughter?"

Black eyes flashed in a way that I didn't like, but the voice remained neutral. "If you please, sir."

"I'm sure you'll understand if I insist on knowing what business you have with an eleven-year-old girl."

"Certainly," he replied stiffly. He was still standing awkwardly on our front steps, looking rather uncomfortable, and it occurred to me how very inhospitable I was being towards this caller. Manners be damned. I didn't trust him.

Fic's from the pov of Hermione's father, I really love the way the author's fleshed out the Grangers' history and this story is now my head!canon for their past. ^_^

Comments

[darth-eldritch.livejournal.com]

I have no idea why so many fans are so eager to live in JKR’s magical world

This. I wouldn't want to live there.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

It's so bizarre what kind of behavior is tolerated. I'm just reading Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them and it reminded me of how the twins used Ron's Puffskein for Bludger practice. Just- whoa, bashing an innocent creature to death, no authorial criticism, just a 'haha, aren't they hysterical?'

And that's before I get into the other issues. *eyeroll*

[darth-eldritch.livejournal.com]

IKR?

I have problems with how they work poor old Errol to near death.
For God's sake, let the poor creature rest!

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

I don't think I would want to either. If I were a witch in that world I would probably grin and bear it to get the education at Hogwarts, then go back to living with the muggles again. At least only some of them are total assholes.

(Pardon my French)

[darth-eldritch.livejournal.com]

XD!

I'm surprised there aren't entire communities of "renegade" wizards and witches who've left WW and refuse to be controlled by the WW, the Ministry, all that. Or at least a few really reknown examples of complete renegades who have nothing to do with Death Easters or any dark agenda.

But, then, Rowling writes this story...

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, Severus tells Lily that when a Muggle-born is accepted to Hogwarts someone from the school comes to explain things, so that bit is canon. Also we see this happening when Albus visits Tom at the orphanage. Interestingly he mentions there is a second page to the letter that explains some of the technical details like how to get to the train. Looks like Harry didn't get this part, whether because Hagrid forgot or because the system assumed Petunia would know (after all, we see that she did accompany Lily). IOW Muggle-borns do not receive the letter by owl or post, they receive it in person from a staff-member. Who can Confund and Obliviate the parents as needed, of course, for the greater good. We also see Albus offering to accompany Tom to Diagon Ally, and it is possible that normally such accompaniment would be standard for a Muggle-born. (Albus is quick to agree to skip this bit when Tom assures him it isn't necessary.)

Magic outside school: we have been over this several times in several discussions. Different people have different theories. Terri's version is here (follow the discussion for some additional details), danny sparks' is here. (Regarding Hermione's spell work, nobody says she *didn't* get a letter of warning but didn't admit it. There is time to practice several spells until the owl arrives.)

As for how the quill works, Jodel proposed once that the stress of birth causes an outburst of magic (and perhaps there are some Muggle-borns that are missed because they were born in planned C-sections).

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

Geez... I wonder what happens with stillbirths and early labor miscarriages. It'd be a titch awkward to get a letter eleven years later.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Thanks for the links! You're so good at that! I can't remember which post a particular convo was in, so that really helps. *squish*

And y'know, I feel dumb now, 'coz I totally forgot about Albus visiting Tom. Although even then, I might've attributed it to him being an orphan, rather than standard procedure. (Lol, imagine Snape being sent out to promote Hogwarts! *g*)

Oh, so there is a second page? I'll have to re-read that chapter and get details, because that's interesting and relevant to my fic-in-gestation.

It's pretty stupid to just send Harry a letter- Albus knew, for one, that Petunia hated her sister and her nephew by extension because she couldn't stand magic, he certainly had enough spies to confirm that she had no love for the boy, so why would she have explained anything about the WW to him? And why would she even KNOW anything about it? Having a sister who goes there isn't the same as being able to explain it. IDEK.

Who can Confund and Obliviate the parents as needed, of course, for the greater good

I wonder how often that happens, and what happens to the kid, then. Do they get wiped clean and never think about it, or does the wizard Memory Charm the parents into letting the kid go to Hogwarts? I'm getting really uncomfortable vibes, because that seems in-character for the WW.

Btw, do you remember the post in which people were talking about how Dumbledore was responsible for 'creating' Voldemort- he was the one who brought the kid in, saw he was disturbed, showed him destructive magic to tantalize him, was suspicious of him and knew he'd done unsavory deeds and told nobody, etc. Kept secret Voldy's past as Tom Riddle instead of humanizing him as a man rather than terrifying monster, someone people used to know, and so on? No worries if you can't, I'm just curious.

Interesting theory about the stress of birth! I love this comm and Jodel, so many possibilities that explain canon to me to choose from!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Btw, do you remember the post in which people were talking about how Dumbledore was responsible for 'creating' Voldemort- he was the one who brought the kid in, saw he was disturbed, showed him destructive magic to tantalize him, was suspicious of him and knew he'd done unsavory deeds and told nobody, etc. Kept secret Voldy's past as Tom Riddle instead of humanizing him as a man rather than terrifying monster, someone people used to know, and so on? No worries if you can't, I'm just curious.

These come up once in a while. But if you want several essays and fic in that spirit, why don't you just follow Terri's journal? She even wrote Severus bringing Harry his letter in Too Much There (it isn't tagged properly, so you'll have to look for the later parts yourself). It also has a sequel, WIP under the name 'Unlikely Alliance' in which Severus tries to save Harry from both Tom and Albus.

[quaternionworld.livejournal.com]

We actually see that happen in the books with Riddle, and I doubt the procedures changed much in 50 years. Someone would come visit the Muggle-born kid, parents who are 'inconveniently sharp' are mind-controlled at the wizard's leisure, and Muggle-borns who aren't yet eleven can literally get away with murder. And torture. And thievery. At least. And yes, they could get locked in mental institutions, since we're told it almost happened. Given what happened to Ariana, Harry probably got off lightly being locked in a cupboard from infancy.

But wizards think Muggle are cute (and clever) little beasts who are so pitiable for not having magic, so they'd probably never know -- makes you wonder if the reason Hogwarts only has 25% Muggleborns after a wizarding war for a generation that was rather big in the real world is that some don't live to eleven.

And they probably didn't send someone to Harry because, as the child of two wizards, he would have been in whatever the Ministry uses for a birth registry in the magical community -- that doesn't tell if a kid is magic, just his parentage and existence. Neither Riddle nor Hermione would have been registered in that, having no wizard parent living to do it.

As to whether they know about underage magic -- well, Dumbledore needed to get a Muggle woman drunk to learn what the little Tom did with his (and nobody else knew), so apparently it's just untracked. He also didn't feel necessary to report it to authorities afterwards, so apparently they don't care.

I just realized all this makes the Wizarding World sound barbarian. Which might have been intended.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

I thought my opinion of the WW could sink no lower, but there you go. *sighs* This is where those 'Dumbledore created Voldemort' theories come from. He KNEW Tom was a bad egg, that he had severely traumatized kids, that he was creepy as all get out and couldn't be trusted, but he never actually did anything about it! People are all, 'he set the wardrobe on fire to warn Tom he was going to keep an eye on him', which I don't get, because from the movie anyway, that seems to tantalize Tom and make him more intrigued and power-hungry than 'omg, this powerful man is watching me, better keep my head down'.

And that makes sense, re: Harry being the child of two wizards, hence the automated letter, rather than representative. Except that it's from McGonagall, iirc, and you'd think she would remember that Harry was left with Muggles.

Thanks for the confirmation on what I believed re: underage magic not being tracked, that makes it easier for me.

And yeah, barbarian is one word for it. Supremely frakked up would be another description.

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

In my head!canon the founders put, along with Muggle repealing and anti-Apparition wards, a charm on Hogwarts that over time influence Muggle-born to shun they "unworthy" and "unimportant" Muggle heritage. :(

After all, with birth rates as low as WW have they need the Muggle-borns (even if they see them as second rate citizens) so they can't take the chance the kids will go back to the Muggle world.
Plus, if they poison them against (or make them ashamed of) their parents and Muggles they are less likely to try and make Muggle things (from ideas to appliances) work in the WW.
Good way to keep WW unchanged and "clean" of Muggle "silliness".

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

I imagine that the Ministry does keep a close eye muggleborn children and is aware of their incidents of accidental magic. If the incident is witnessed by too many muggles and can't be easily dismissed or explained away, then the Accidental Magic Reversal Department will intervene. They'll reverse the magic and obliviate any muggles involved.

Arthur Weasley gives us the impression in CoS that most muggles will try to come up with a rational interpretation on their own for what they're seeing.

Bless them, they’ll go to any lengths to ignore magic, even if it’s staring them in the face

So, if an incident is minor enough, the Ministry won't worry about it.

I think the Ministry and Hogwarts do know from an early age whether or not a child is magical. So why don't they tell families until the children are 11? My guess is that, historically, there have been concerns about infanticide. It used to be a lot more common. If a wizarding family knows their baby is a squib, they might just kill it. A squib has a better chance of surviving to adulthood if the parents don't know for sure until he's eleven that he isn't magical. Likewise, if a muggle family actually knows that their child is a witch, they may be more likely to kill her than if they only suspect it.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The Ministry was not aware that Tom was torturing kids and killing their pets with magic. I don't think the Ministry is aware of magic done by a child who does not yet have a wand (and a child with a wand belonging to an adult might still slip through), though the Hogwarts quill does. These are 2 separate mechanisms, under separate jurisdictions.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

The Ministry was not aware that Tom was torturing kids and killing their pets with magic.

I think it's very possible that the Ministry just didn't care. We've seen plenty of evidence that wizards could generally care less about the abuse of animals and muggles. As long as the muggles didn't attribute the incidents to magic, it wasn't their problem.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Okay, I'll go with that. Harry's wandless magic attracted attention but that was in the Chosen One's house,after all.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

You know, I wonder if the fact that the Ministry doesn't track children's accidental magic means that they can't track it. Maybe there's something about the nature of accidental magic that makes it impossible, or at least very difficult, to monitor. Maybe they're only able to detect formal spells.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Then again, maybe it’s a coincidence, maybe the letters get sent out at a certain time every year- in which case it’s rather cruel if a kid manifested magic early and is going nuts because they don’t know what’s happening to them.

Actually it's years between a kids magical outbursts and the letter. Neville was a late-bloomer with his magic manifesting at 8, most kids start before 6. But the letters are sent the summer before they start school.

(What I don't know is what happens when the school is late hiring the DADA teacher, like in OOTP. Were the 1st year letters sent the very last minute with the others or were they sent earlier and then the families had to go a second time to pick up Umbridge's chosen book?)

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Oh, really? I did not know any of this! I don't know if I should be embarrassed at being so dense or impressed at your picking up these obscure details. If it's from HBP/DH, I don't feel bad 'coz I only read them the once, and skim-read at that. But it was prob in the earlier books and I just have a terrible memory. *eyeroll*

Anyway, that makes it really bad- so the kid's doing magic and doesn't even know what's happening to them til years later? Wow. If a kid's freaked out and thinks it's something evil or to be ashamed of, they might be able to suppress their magic and then lose the ability to access it because it's traumatic (if I was exploding things every time I got upset, I'd certainly be terrified). Wasn't there some link between being miserable (if only because of love) and losing one's magic?

Harry's sense of reason is...very stunted. Imagine a kid magically appearing on a roof and supposing that the wind caught them mid-jump. Or maybe I was just a very level-headed child and that would be normal for other kids to believe?

PS. Was it you who left a review for my fic or another 'Oryx'? If it was you, thanks!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Or maybe I was just a very level-headed child and that would be normal for other kids to believe?

I doubt it would be normal for anyone old enough to attend elementary school.

PS. Was it you who left a review for my fic or another 'Oryx'? If it was you, thanks!

Yes, that was me. That was my original nickname on HP sites, but when I registered to LiveJournal and InsaneJournal it was taken on one of them (and I wanted the same handle on both). So I used the full species name of the Arabian oryx (because it's the real unicorn).

Harry and logic

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

Harry was never the most normal kid... curiously that is stated a lot in Philosopher's Stone, but subsequently he becomes weirder and distinctly unpleasant and the text does not acknowledge it at all.

Hagrid collecting Harry

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

>>Harry had Hagrid to show him the way to Diagon Alley but he was a special case. I know some fanfics have professors go and personally visit families, but then in that case, why didn’t they do that with Harry? (I read someone say that if Snape had gone to collect him, the Dursleys would’ve seen his cold, harsh manner and been delighted to let Harry go off with him. But no, we had to have that frakwit Hagrid go and abuse them because it’s SO FUNNY when a grown man injures a little kid, dying of laughter right now. Side-rant: bloody hypocrites, that think Hagrid attacking Dudley and not!Moody attacking Draco is a good laugh but oh, that Snape, HE’s the real child-abuser)<<

JKR said in one of her dreary interviews that the job of visiting muggle/muggleborn households was given to "special envoys" from the magical world, not necessarily to professors.

I know this is being pedantic, but Hagrid is not a man, he is a man/magical creature hybrid. His mental age most often resembles that of an eleven year old boy if one were to try and attribute human standards to him. I personally would cut him a little slack. Perhaps he is a bit dysgenic and has something like a mental handicap, hence is not quite responsible for his bad behaviour. I would give the character the benefit of the doubt that exists. Snape on the other hand is sane, and clever - anything dubious he does is clearly his own fault.

Note to all members - can you imagine a primary school with Hermione as headmistress? The standard punishment for being rude about the headmistress would be disfigurement for life!

Re: Hagrid collecting Harry

[oryx_leucoryx]

Snape on the other hand is sane, and clever - anything dubious he does is clearly his own fault.


And what dubious things does he do? Oh, he *insults* the kids. For misbehaving or doing badly in class. Give me a break.

Note to all members - can you imagine a primary school with Hermione as headmistress? The standard punishment for being rude about the headmistress would be disfigurement for life!

No, disfigurement is the punishment for giving away secrets. Regardless of whether those secrets were worth keeping or the potential price for keeping them. The punishment for being rude about the headmistress is a year of blackmail.

Re: Hagrid collecting Harry

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

How about being enslaved to the dreary memory of a badly rendered Mary Sue character? :p JKR really messed up all the characters retrospectively with Deathly Hallows. Snape was no exception.

[labrt2004.livejournal.com]

Um... hi, lol. *waves from cave. I just saw this today. Thanks so much for mentioning it. Hope all has been well for you. I've been stuck in application/class/work hell for the past few months but I miss you and the rest of LJ terribly. How have things been going? I'm going to do the next SS_HG Exchange, hopefully will be seeing more of my fandom friends again :)