OOTP Chapter Seven: "The Ministry of Magic"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* Jeans and a t-shirt seems like quite a scruffy combination for a hearing, even if they are freshly laundered. Doesn’t Harry have a suit or something he could wear?

* So why is it again that moving Harry to No. 12 required a small battalion of witches and wizards to keep him safe, but taking him to the Ministry requires just one middle-aged guy?

* Kudos to Mr. Weasley for getting excited about automatic ticket machines, instead of just assuming that they’re an inferior substitute for magic like everyone else does. Still, it does make one wonder why he hasn’t learnt more about Muggle technology.

* To enter the Ministry, type 62442. This is where the letters MAGIC are on a numberpad. Just thought I’d point that out.

* Nothing triumphalist about that Statue of Magical Harmony at all, is there? Still, it does make the pureblood supremacists look a bit less bad. Wizards clearly think that they’re better than sapient magical creatures; all Mr. Malfoy et al. want to do is add sapient non-magical creatures to the statue.

* So does St. Mungo’s rely on charity to keep itself afloat, then? ’Cause you’d have thought that the WW would be able to fund at least one hospital, especially if it’s literally the only hospital available to them. But then, why get people to donate to it at all, if you can just fund it out of general taxation? And why would people put coins in the well? After all, you never hear people saying “I think the NHS is such a good thing, I’m going to voluntary pay more tax to help fund it.”

* And do we ever see the Department for Experimental Breeding investigate Hagrid?

* An “Official Gobstones Club” just sounds silly to me. Yes, let’s have all these senior governmental officials using public office space to play a game which squirts foul-smelling liquid into your face! I mean, I get that the HP books have a lot of whimsy in them, but the series is supposed to be growing up at this point. Official Gobstones Clubs just don’t fit with the serious atmosphere JKR’s trying to create.

* Does a society as small as the WW really need such a big government? Or are they all just so stupid that they need two bureaucrats to every normal citizen to constantly tell them what to do?

* The fact that the Goblin Liaison Office is part of the Department for the Regulation and Control of Magic Creatures should tell you all you need to know about the wizarding world’s mindset when it comes to other sentient beings.

* If it’s any consolation, though, the Goblins do control the WW’s only bank. I bet they laugh about the wizards whilst secretly holding the Minister to ransom by threatening to use their power to take down the entire wizarding economy.

* A bit like Jews in anti-Semitic literature, now that I come to think of it. Normally, I’d just brush this off as a coincidence, and say that anyone trying to compare Goblins and Jews is reading too much into the text. In light of the fact that Rowling constantly bludgeons us over the head with her heavy-handed Nazi analogies, though…

* Oh, and now they have a “Muggle-Worthy Excuse Committee” as part of the Department of Magical Accidents and Catastrophes. Once again, “Muggle” is being used as a term of abuse, despite the fact that it’s the Wizarding World, not the Muggle, which is a corrupt, authoritarian, nepotistic dictatorship which breeds Dark Lords like a rotting log breeds toadstools.

* Once again, though, it makes the Pureblood Supremacists look a bit better. After all, if you were brought up to believe that Muggles were inherently stupid, wouldn’t you want to keep their (no doubt equally stupid) offspring at arm’s length?

* In fact, sod it – the Supremacists are actually better than mainstream society. At least their sense of superiority is consistent with their society’s views on Muggles – none of that hypocritical “Oh, Muggles are stupid and inferior – but whatever you do, don’t say so!” crap.

* And now I’m going to shut up on the topic for the rest of this chapter, lest my blood pressure climbs to unhealthy levels.

* Percy appears to have walked out of the photograph. So does this mean that magical photographs are able to know and react to events around them? But how would Photo!Percy have known about the argument? And isn’t there a scene later in the book when Moody shows Harry a picture of the Order of the Phoenix, and Harry thinks something along the lines of “They had no idea that they’d shortly be killed”? Probably Arthur’s removed his son himself.

* So why was the hearing time changed? Was it just to discredit Harry by making him look too arrogant to show up to his own hearing? But then, surely it would emerge that he was meant to turn up several hours later, thereby defeating the purpose of the change?

 

Comments

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

as to St. Mungo's - I'd say it's quite possible it is funded by society but some little extras may be bought if people donate to it. For example, in my country, schools are funded by the state, but there are societies associated with most schools (sponsored by parents and local business, as a rule) to buy things that are not absolutely needed but are nice to have like additional computers or gym things and such.

* Does a society as small as the WW really need such a big government?
I bet this is another instance of "Oh dear, maths". The way it is described, the MoM seems like quite a big thing with lots of different departments. Which would call for a much more numerous society than one which obviously seems to be clothed by two shops and gets their wands from one wandmaker...

I’d just brush this off as a coincidence, and say that anyone trying to compare Goblins and Jews is reading too much into the text.
Oh no, I'm sure you don't. The parallels are too many for them to be a coincidence. Wasn't there even a mention in DH how one (or all of them?) goblin looked "swarthy" not to mention to have a hooked nose? It doesn't get much closer to traditional European antisemitism propaganda than that.

* In fact, sod it – the Supremacists are actually better than mainstream society. At least their sense of superiority is consistent with their society’s views on Muggles – none of that hypocritical “Oh, Muggles are stupid and inferior – but whatever you do, don’t say so!” crap.
YES! The sickening thing about this whole HP mess is that we are expected to feel righteous anger at those who (to translate it into our society) call coloured or hispanic or turkish (or whatever your choice is) people an inferior, genetically deficient class of people and sympathize with those who like very much to discuss these topics at the dinner table while of course not really mingling with people of that sort. While stating that of course this was not due to any sort of prejudice, but just, you know, personal incompatability.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

>>>>>>YES! The sickening thing about this whole HP mess is that we are expected to feel righteous anger at those who (to translate it into our society) call coloured or hispanic or turkish (or whatever your choice is) people an inferior, genetically deficient class of people and sympathize with those who like very much to discuss these topics at the dinner table while of course not really mingling with people of that sort. While stating that of course this was not due to any sort of prejudice, but just, you know, personal incompatability.

This comment reminded me of the website Stuff White People Like (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com)

#7 Diversity (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/2008/01/19/7-diversity/)

White people love ethnic diversity, but only as it relates to restaurants.

Many white people from cities like Los Angeles, San Francisco and New York will spend hours talking about how great it is that they can get Sushi and Tacos on the same street. But then they send their kids to private school with other rich white kids, and live in neighborhoods like Santa Monica or Pacific Palisades.

But it’s important to note that white people to do not like to be called out on this fact. If you run an ethnic restaurant you can be guaranteed repeat business and huge tips if you act like your white customers are adventurous and cultured for eating food that it isn’t sandwiches or pasta.

In fact, many of the items on their list (http://stuffwhitepeoplelike.com/full-list-of-stuff-white-people-like/) can be found in Harry Potter.

This might help explain why the series is so popular.

[600ants.livejournal.com]

Oh well... I don't mean to be rude or anything, but that site isn't much better than JK's books, promotion-of-stereotypes-bordering-on-hate intolerance-wise speaking...

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

I admit that I haven't read the website word-for-word or thought that deeply about it, so I will not disagree with you.

I personally find it both amusing and discomforting because I am very much a part of the demographic that it is sporking. And I find some of its commentary to be quite accurate, both about me and others I know well.

[sunnyskywalker]

Yeah. I'm also part of the sporkee demographic, and I have heard a lot of nice white people going on about diversity while going to private, very white schools and not doing anything whatsoever to improve their local public schools even as an occasional hobby, comparing all the "exotic" foods they like and how they found this place that's totally more authentic like it's some great stride for understanding the world, and then having all these flimsy excuses for how they don't actually have any friends who aren't white ("we just, um, don't have the same interests, and they were kind of aloof when I tried to talk to them that one time, and coincidence which coincidentally always gives the same results!") and unconsciously slipping into the same old stereotypes they try to be against ("It's terrible how racist people are against immigrants! And we need more border control because a bunch of lazy people are trying to come in and have babies to mooch off social services. Not that we have data to back that up, or actually know of any cases besides maybe that one my friend said his friend heard about, but Everyone Knows. And yet I have no complaints about how last century the Irish came in and had a bunch of babies because it's different. Somehow. Shut up, I'm not racist!"). It's not universally true, and I can see how the site could be offensively generalizing too much... but it's also something that I recognize as, like, 90% of the people I run into in my daily life. Which makes it kind of funny and uncomfortable at the same time.

[600ants.livejournal.com]

I admit that I haven't read the website word-for-word or thought that deeply about it, so I will not disagree with you.

IMHO, the sample you presented is quite representative of the WWPL's views, and to me just as offensive as any other form of generalizing. To say “You are white, you know what we like.” pretty much equals JK's infamous “You are a woman, you know what we are like.” Or at least I fail to see the difference.

I personally find it both amusing and discomforting because I am very much a part of the demographic that it is sporking. And I find some of its commentary to be quite accurate, both about me and others I know well.

I suppose that's another thing “white people like”, then. To let themselves be bad-mouthed and stereotyped to hell in fear that otherwise, they might be accused of... what? Racism? Puhleeese. Don't know about you, but I certainly don't “love ethnic diversity, but only as it relates to restaurants,” however at the same time, I fail to see anything wrong with living in a 90% percent white neighborhood. Quite the contrary, I consider it quite racist for people to tell me that there is something wrong with living among white people, and apparently something very desirable about living among any other ethnicities...

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

The blog is more specifically about well-educated Americans who identify as politically progressive, the majority of whom are white. Is it inaccurate to use the stereotypes of this sub-group to describe all white people? Definitely. Is it offensive? I'm not sure.

Because of my white privilege, I don't usually have to worry that someone will make certain assumptions about me based on stereotypes just because I'm white, unlike the way I sometimes have to deal with that as a woman, or the way I would likely have to deal with that if I were a person of color. I'm not offended by the blog because I'm not concerned that anyone will take it seriously and agree that it actually describes all white people.

>>>>To say “You are white, you know what we like.” pretty much equals JK's infamous “You are a woman, you know what we are like.” Or at least I fail to see the difference.

The difference is that, outside of satire, it's very unlikely that somebody would say "You are white, you know what we like." because we don't, in reality, usually make generalizations about white people as a group the way we do about women and persons of color and other minority groups.

>>>>I suppose that's another thing “white people like”, then. To let themselves be bad-mouthed and stereotyped to hell in fear that otherwise, they might be accused of... what? Racism? Puhleeese.

As I said above, I personally find the some of the site rather self-incriminating. I don't feel like I'm being "bad-mouthed" because much of what it's saying is true for me. And I like being pushed to be more self-reflective and to examine my beliefs and choices.

>>>>Don't know about you, but I certainly don't “love ethnic diversity, but only as it relates to restaurants,” however at the same time, I fail to see anything wrong with living in a 90% percent white neighborhood. Quite the contrary, I consider it quite racist for people to tell me that there is something wrong with living among white people, and apparently something very desirable about living among any other ethnicities...

I believe the main purpose of the entry is to highlight the hypocrisy of people who talk about how important diversity and multiculturalism are yet do not live out those values in their daily lives. I think the intent here is to judge people's hypocrisy, not their choices in lifestyle.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I believe the main purpose of the entry is to highlight the hypocrisy of people who talk about how important diversity and multiculturalism are yet do not live out those values in their daily lives. I think the intent here is to judge people's hypocrisy, not their choices in lifestyle.

Yes, but since one can never be multicultural enough and yet not appear to be forcing oneself (unless one's life circumstances are rather unusual) so it's a no-win. People who attempt to place me in no-win situations are best ignored.

BTW is coffee drinking a white thing in the US? In Israel 'real people' drink coffee, regardless of ethnicity. Tea is for the sick and for bureaucrats, according to the common stereotype. (Also, I never got the definition of 'white' in the US. Are darker Caucasians white or brown?)

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

>>>>Yes, but since one can never be multicultural enough and yet not appear to be forcing oneself (unless one's life circumstances are rather unusual) so it's a no-win. People who attempt to place me in no-win situations are best ignored.

Oh yes, I agree that the ideals are nearly impossible to live out. I should clarify. This isn't simply talking about well-meaning people who fail to live up to their values. This is about how some people can be rather self-righteous about how open-minded and tolerant and multicultural they are, while being blind to their own ignorance and prejudice... much like how Dumbledore is.

>>>>BTW is coffee drinking a white thing in the US? In Israel 'real people' drink coffee, regardless of ethnicity. Tea is for the sick and for bureaucrats, according to the common stereotype.

Umm, I could be wrong, but I think drinking coffee is pretty universal in the U.S. But drinking fancy gourmet blends from shops like Starbucks is more of a hipster thing to do.

>>>>(Also, I never got the definition of 'white' in the US. Are darker Caucasians white or brown?)

Umm, that's a good question. Our census currently defines "white" as being descended from people originating in Europe, the Middle East, or Northern Africa. But not everyone whose ancestors originated in those places self-identifies as white, I don't think.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Looks like a non-white person can like wearing t-shirts because they are practical, but a while person wearing a t-shirt is probably doing so out of some kind of agenda. Right, the authors of the site are totally non-hypocrites.

I'm so uber-white I don't have a TV and therefore have no idea about many of the items on their list. OTOH I'm so white I make my own hummus (OK, I grew up eating it). I wonder if baking my own bread makes me even whiter. But I ride the bus regularly, which according to them means I'm non-white. 28/134 whiteness score, even after being very generous.

I wonder what they call a non-white person who likes some items on the list.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

Instead of "Stuff White People Like," the blog should have been titled something like "Stuff that well-educated, affluent, politically progressive Americans like." That is the group that the blog is sporking. "Hipsters" and "Yuppies" are labels that are often used to describe this group.

Never mind anything else, it doesn't surprise me that very little of the list applies to you since you live outside of the U.S.

In Chicago, for instance, more black people ride buses than white people because fewer rail lines run through the black neighborhoods.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I have been living in the US for the last decade. Being well-educated, politically progressive and affluent enough to withstand the occasional crisis is a good thing to be.

In Chicago, for instance, more black people ride buses than white people because fewer rail lines run through the black neighborhoods.

The comparison in the relevant list item wasn't bus vs rail but bus vs assorted forms of personal transportation. Plenty of white people riding the bus with me. Also plenty of non-white people. The problem with buses in my area is that they are becoming expensive. Fortunately my employer pays for my bus pass.

[600ants.livejournal.com]

I'm sorry if I overreacted and have been rude. I can lash out terribly when something peeves me one time too many, and I shouldn't have let myself be carried away like that and take my frustrations out on you.
Quite obviously, the two of us live in very different worlds. What you can easily shrug off as a “satire”, to me is everyday reality of prejudice and intolerance. There's no such thing as “my white privilege” for me. And my apologies if I missed the tongue-in-cheek in your comments, but it sounded to me like you took the blog pretty seriously and considered it generally true yourself.

I believe the main purpose of the entry is to highlight the hypocrisy of people who talk about how important diversity and multiculturalism are yet do not live out those values in their daily lives. </ i>
I hope so. But the way it is done just screams the “false multiculturalism” where not all races, cultures etc. are considered equal, but where literally everything is better than to be white, and the only way to stay clear of being accused of racism is to constantly apologize for the offensively white color of your skin and penitently take everything the self-appointed arbiters of "tolerance and multiculturalism" decide to throw at you...

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

A lot of the things on the stuff white people like is kinda bogus non-sense - I'm white and I could only get through the top 10 and none of it applies to me; and that which does remotly apply to me are for very different reasons that what the person gives.

I don't deny that there might be white people this humor applies to. As in, with humor there tends to be elements of truth in it for the joke to be funny...but really I just don't see how some of it applies to me.

Apparently by this list I'm very bad at being a white person. Or my white-ness is on a totaly different level. I'm wondering what part of the country the author/blogger is from, that might explain a lot to me if I know his state or coast of origin.

Some of it comes across as more being what I would call fake people. As in people who pretend to be something they are not or like things they really don't. And I don't think thats exclusive to pale skinned people.

There was a post on the blog about the world cup, and I'll quote this sentance "Though you may be waiting on bated breath for your favorite sport on a global scale, white people like the World Cup because it allows them to pretend they are European for a few weeks, and more importantly, it allows them to get drunk at odd hours."

Now, don't get me wrong, I get that the world cup is popular. But honestly, I don't give a crap and I would not be so 'fake' to pretend to like something I don't give a crap about. I would be understanding if someone was excited and really like it, but I'd honestly rather not be involved. I barely have time for the stuff I do like, why do I want to go around being fake and involved with stuff I don't like?

I would not act like I need to like something to get drunk either. I have noticed that most people don't really need a reason to get drunk.

So, the site is sort of obnoxious humor and my assumption is it is meant to be funny to the those folks who get the humor but so far the stuff I read I kinda have to ask; who the hell are these white people?

[600ants.livejournal.com]

Apparently by this list I'm very bad at being a white person. :) I guess I should have said this and stopped right there. :)

Some of it comes across as more being what I would call fake people. .... And I don't think thats exclusive to pale skinned people. This! (I have no idea if the author says “white people” and means some special sort of people, that is not so much distinguished by their colour as by their ignorance and delusions, it might be the case, but it really comes across like he means “white people” as in all Caucasians. And then I can't but feel offended.)

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

but it really comes across like he means “white people” as in all Caucasians. And then I can't but feel offended.)

Yes, because some of the blog posts and comments just make reference to it being exclusive to white people - or there is the 90% of white people or even with the comment I posted about the world cup made it out like American's were waiting specially for the world cup so they can act Eurpoean.

I mean seriously, are people this bored that they gotta pretend to like a sport they don't really like? WTH?

But, I hope mostly supposed to be a obnoxiously humor driven blog, maybe something to make you think a little, laugh, a little sarcasm mixed in with some wit.

Then again a lot of what I see on the list, or at least the reasons for the things being on the list are kinda, well frankly dumb. They don't seem to apply to me as a pale skinned person.

It's sort of like the joke starts out funny but the punchline doesn't make much sense.

And it could be that it's just over my head and I gotta be in that group of 'white' people to really get the humor. Thats why it almost feels like it's also partly regionally driven, like wherever the author lives and grew up is key to the humor of it.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

Oh don't worry, I wasn't upset. And I apologize for upsetting you. It does sound like we've had different experiences.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

No, I should rephrase that. I apologize for referencing a site that's quite a bit more controversial than I realized. I honestly hadn't thought that carefully about it before. I've also gone through periods of feeling like I'm supposed to feel guilty for being white.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Oh, I understand the sentiment of your last sentence. I must say that what I particularly find offensive about the site is the notion that it's ok and somehow not offensive to judge people of one race according to a set of stereotypes or the actions of some individuals, when that sort of thing is rightfully condemned when applied to people of any other race. I mean, if the site was "Stuff Black People Like" or "Stuff Asians Like" etc. imagine the criticism (which would be deserved).

And I don't honestly care if the *intent* is not to offend. Not all whites acting out of privilege intend to offend, but the hurt is still there. Why should that stop mattering when the one with pale skin is the offended party? There's a genuine and important difference between pointing out individual examples of hypocrisy and privilege, or discussing patterns of such behavior on the part of *some* white people, and making negative generalizations about all white people. But it seems to me that too often all white people are expected to put up with such generalizing and apologize for their race regardless of their own behavior; it's acceptable to treat them in ways it's not for people of other races and to apply the worst motivations to their every action. Which to me is, frankly, wrong. I thought the idea was to move towards seeing and treating people of all races equally, not turn the tables on who is victim and who is aggressor.

(Not ranting at you personally, just being frank. I hope I have not offended.)

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

it seems to me that too often all white people are expected to put up with such generalizing and apologize for their race regardless of their own behavior; it's acceptable to treat them in ways it's not for people of other races and to apply the worst motivations to their every action. Which to me is, frankly, wrong.

Yes! Thank you! I came across this site a few weeks ago when I was looking for a definition of the word "whitesplaining," and I definitely got the impression I was supposed to feel guilty about being white, and feel personally responsible for the white privilege built into our society centuries before I was born.

What you wrote is a lot of what I was getting at on the Dumbledore discussion, when I said I was tired of this attitude some minority fans of HP have towards Lily. That is, because the text wants us to regard her as a minority, and certain nonwhite fans have decided to adopt her as a minority role model, white fans are not allowed to criticize her even though she is white and lives in both a country and a subculture that are over 90% white. If a white person criticizes her, they're accused of being racist and/or misogynist (even if they're a woman). No other character gets this privileged treatment. In fact, her privileged position is the antithesis of racist oppression.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

No, I should rephrase that. I apologize for referencing a site that's quite a bit more controversial than I realized. I honestly hadn't thought that carefully about it before. I've also gone through periods of feeling like I'm supposed to feel guilty for being white.

You have a unicorn as your avi photo - that gives you free pass.

And it's just a dumb website, you didn't make it. It was probably made by some guy who had a hard time getting a girlfriend, so he needed to come up with something catchy to sell so he could get a woman.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

LOL! I've never even seen that before, the stuff white people like. Goes to look at list and see how White of a white person I am. I might post the results on my actual live journal.

JKR and racism issues

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

Another member mentioned that JKR just decided to give the designated villains the racism stamp because it's something that she calculated would make lots of people boo them in this day and age. She really does not come across as someone who really has egalitarian views herself though does she?

If she had been writing in the 19th century or in the early 20th century her designated "good" characters would most likely be condemning "The horrors of miscegenation" in the manner of H.P. Lovecraft and the designated baddies would have been fighting AGAINST a societal dogma that promoted racial purity.

Re: JKR and racism issues

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

JKR, to be frank, does not come across to me as someone who reflects on her own views very much, or whether she is living up to them. I could be wrong, but her public behavior and writing give me that impression. So she may sincerely believe that she has egalitarian views, and in the need to promote them, but without realizing that she is not in fact holding up a good example of that. (Or she may be cynically and consciously exploiting the current PC drive in order to sell books, but she comes across to me as being sincere but unreflective).

I do agree that the particular choice of analogies was likely deliberately calculated for emotional appeal and moral simplicity. Why bother with worldbuilding and all that hard thinking when you can just say "They're like Nazis! Only with magic!" and let your readers do the work for you? (/sarcasm off) Plus, that strategy has the added advantage of making your heroes hard to criticize (they're fighting Nazis, by default they're above reproach) and making it hard to view the story in shades of grey (because advocating that makes you look like a Nazi apologist), so your simplistic-to-the-point-of-absurdity moral framework is artificially protected from having its gaping loopholes exposed attack.

[charlottehywd.livejournal.com]

Ok, the Classical Music and Graduate School segments just annoy me. Possibly because I am a grad student/ex music major. Rather irritatingly condescending, actually.