GOF Chapter 25: The Egg and the Eye

[oryx_leucoryx]

Harry plans his excursion to his one recorded bath in great detail. The prefects' bath is deep enough to have a diving board. Now I imagine Percy and Penelope having a great time during their years as prefects. Did Ron and Hermione come here during OOTP? That would be a good way to avoid Harry when he was CAPSLOCKING. OTOH in HBP Harry had the privilege to use the room too but as far as canon tells he did not. (Well, he was following Draco who also had the privilege to use this bathroom, but preferred working on the cabinet). We know portraits can move around in the castle. So any deceased school Head can in principle show up in the mermaid's portrait and spy on prefects having baths. Maybe it isn't such fun then.

I notice Harry is still suspecting the whole thing was some nefarious plot of Cedric's to get him caught by Filch. Harry does have company - Myrtle, the lonely, oversexed ghost, stuck in teenage for over 50 years so far. She berates him for not keeping his word to visit her on occasion - a common theme with Harry towards people who are only useful to him once in a long while. Heck, he only started writing to Sirius when he needed his help. He never wrote to Remus, his admired teacher from last year (and Hedwig is so annoyed that Harry isn't employing her service).

Myrtle can visit this bathroom and spy on prefects. I guess she can visit any bathroom in the castle then? No wonder Harry avoids showering and bathing.

Well, since Harry doesn't figure it out himself, Myrtle tells him what Cedric did with his egg. So Harry gets to hear a riddle in song format. I recall he was never particularly good with those. And Hermione isn't around to think for him. Meanwhile we learn Hogwarts dumps untreated sewage into the lake. Don't the merefolk complain? Why don't they migrate by magical underground network of waterways (like those used by the Durmstrang ship) to cleaner waters?

OK, so Myrtle hints enough for Harry to catch on. And once again Harry makes an empty promise to visit Myrtle. I don't think he realizes it's a nasty habit of his.

The Marauders Map reveals some Bartemius Crouch in Severus Snape's office. Wasn't Crouch too sick to come to work? Or to the Yule Ball? I wonder who this really is... So instead of going back upstairs to Gryffindor tower Harry decides to go downstairs and see what's up with Crouch. And gets stuck in the trick stair, as foreshadowed by Neville in chapter 12. He also drops the egg, that rolls away screaming, and the Map. Harry thinks to attempt to wipe the Map blank but not to summon it. Or the egg. Really, after summoning the Firebolt all that distance in the First Task why isn't summoning one of the first things to try? Well, Filch is here, so now it's too late.

Filch believes Peeves stole the egg and dropped it as a prank. He wouldn't think a school champion would be stupid enough to drop his egg with its clues like that. At least Filch can close the egg and stop the noise. I don't know how long the egg was wailing, but the first person to show up is Severus, all the way up from the dungeons, at least 5 floors down. Was nobody else woken by the noise? Or did nobody else care? The egg sounds like the screams of someone being tortured, like someone in horrible pain. And the only one who cares is Severus? Notice his priorities - he awakes to the noise, and on his way out he notices his office, where assorted restricted and dangerous items are kept, has been broken into. But his top priority is to find the source of the screaming. It is only after Filch shows him the screaming wasn't a person in need that he focuses on investigating the intrusion to his office. (And only later, when he sees the Map that he realizes this involves Harry.) It's one of those moments where Rowling inadvertently shows us the extent of Severus' protectiveness of everyone (especially students) - well beyond his promise to keep Harry alive in order that Lily's death will not have been in vain.

Oops! Someone else managed to make it! It's 'Moody'! (Of course we know he is also coming from the dungeons. So by the time it took him to hobble up all those stairs no other staff member thought to come and see what the trouble was? Or did they all decide that since the noise stopped everything must be under control?) Anyway, Severus attempts to hush Filch - he does not want to involve 'Moody' in anything.

Again we see the power of the magical eye to see through Death's own Invisibility Cloak. (Maybe the maker of the Eye is stronger than Death himself? Who could that have been? Heck, maybe the Eye is that person's Horcrux. S/he may still be around. In the Pensieve scenes in chapter 30 Moody still has both of his natural eyes. If the magical one is a Horcrux he only came under its influence after the first war. Maybe that's the real reason for his paranoia?) As for Mrs Norris, it isn't clear if she actually sees Harry or merely smells him.

'Moody' pretends to take part in Severus' investigation, thus finding out what Severus suspects. At the same time he attempts to provoke Severus by bringing up his history. I really do think the real Moody was involved very directly in Severus' interrogation after VWI, and Severus does not cherish those memories. Meanwhile we learn 'Moody' already searched Severus' office openly earlier in the year. 'Moody', like Hagrid in the previous chapter, promotes Albus' reputation as the one who gives second chances. Except he only does it to have another victim to exploit. Does Severus actually sense something in his Mark when 'Moody' hints about it or was his reaction entirely psychological? Are we to understand the real Moody knew about the Dark Mark but Order members who were not Aurors, such as Sirius did not? Or did Moody only learn of the Dark Mark after the war was over, the Marks no longer visible and Sirius was arrested? Why didn't Albus share this information while it might have been useful?

Oops! Barty nearly lost everything - the Map was open. Severus was very close to seeing whom he really was speaking to! He was also very close to catching Harry. Of course he knows Harry was there. And now Harry is Severus' main suspect as the intruder to his office. 'Moody', OTOH plays up Severus as a red herring for Harry. Dumbledore is very interested to know who is after Harry - and so is Barty? Is this the one time his words as 'Moody' don't match his intent as Barty? Yes, Barty, actually Severus does have Harry's best interests at heart. As hard as it is for Harry to believe. And yes, Harry does have to be stopped for his own safety.

So 'Moody' sends Severus and Argus away and pulls Harry out of the trick stair. While learning what the Map can show. Like his true identity. And that Harry saw his name, but mistook it for his father's. Yes Barty, your dad is even more obsessed with catching Dark wizards than Moody or yourself. Especially the one he held prisoner for some 12 years. But not really any others, or he'd have searched places such as Malfoy Manor during those years for evidence of misdeeds, not leave it to the next DMLE head. But yes, you so hate Death Eaters that walked free, you so do. Except Harry thinks this is Moody talking about Igor. And 'Moody' borrows Harry's map, thus closing off that way of discovering his secret. He also flatters Harry saying he could make a good Auror. Harry would consider it if they're not all as scarred as Moody. Well, he already has a headstart on scars.

Some speculation about Barty's Polyjuice strategy: In COS we learned that to make Polyjuice Potion one needs 2 restricted ingredients (and other non-redtricted ones) - boomslang skin and bicorn horn. These ingredients are added at a late stage in the production. We do not know how much of them is needed. From the exchange between Severus and 'Moody' it seems there were 2 times he had access to Severus' supplies - early in the year and now. It is late January, about the midway point of the school year. Did Barty steal 5 months worth of Polyjuice ingredients at both these times? Did he have enough for the first 5 months when he arrived and just ran out? Is he really brewing his entire supply all the time? An alternative strategy would be to owl order it and keep a batch half-brewed - at the stage when the boomslang skin and bicorn horn need to be added, so he only needs to get those ingredients and complete the brewing if his order doesn't arrive in time. I'm not sure which strategy is riskier. BTW in this book only boomslang skin is mentioned as an ingredient Barty had to steal. Did he bring enough bicorn horn for the entire year? Or has bicorn horn become deregulated over the last year or two? Or perhaps we have here the case of the ever-improving Polyjuice Potion - no longer takes a month to brew and needs only one restricted ingredient. In DH we will see the next improvement - Polyjuice that lasts for more than an hour. Looks like Barty missed his calling as Potioneer. And so did (the real) Moody.

Comments

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

But we know that they breed. Can the ministry be in control of every single dementor? According to the author, they grow like fungi in the darkest, dankest places, creating a dense, chilly fog.

I suppose this is a lack of JKR creating a realistic being/creature. I don't see how the English Ministry of magic can be in control of every single dementor, If they breed and are immortal and indistructable.

I have a big issue with creatures you cannot destroy. JKR stated in an interview that you can't destroy a dementor. IF you have a creature that can breed, and these creatures are breeding in the most common of locations then shouldn't the dementors be overrunning the world at this point?

Did the Ministry put the dementors on some kind of birth control?

I do not believe the English Ministry is in control of the whole world so how do they control a dementor birthed outside of their area of control?

It sounds like a lot of propoganda that the Ministry puts out to say they have the dementors under control and working at Azkaban. It's possible that they have a majority of the Dementors in England at Azkaban but I really don't see how they can control all of them, especially given the explaination of their existance.

I doubt defense against dementors was taught at the school

Again quesitons would be, when did they start controlling them? How did they catch them all? What about outside England in other countries. If a dementor in china decided to drift on over to England would the ministry know right away? and if it was able to breed you'd have dementors that the ministry wouldn't know about right away.

Unless JKR is gonna say that England has a magical shield up that tells the ministry when new dementors sprout up so Aurors can go collect them. Ya know, with this series there is always a out of the ass answer to every question so I wouldn't put it past the author if asked these questions to just pull something out the butt to explain dementor.

I don't think Severus would teach something he wasn't sure would be effective as a method for defense against creatures the kids were going to encounter in their lives.

Harry's argument was that using a patronus was the most effective way to deal with Dementors. The only thing we know is that Severus disagreed and apparently was teaching or at least suggesting there was a different way or better way.

We are lead to believe Severus does know a better way. So it is possible he studied dementors without classroom direction. IF the ministry is able to control them then they must have more ways of dealing with them than using a patronus. Maybe we don't know when he would have learned - on his own or in school. I don't know if that part really matters. We know that Severus takes the motivation on himself to study and learn. He did not need a classroom to prompt him to learn about magic.

Then there is another way one can look at Severus knowing another way to deal with dementors besides using a patronus. JKR could not have Severus teaching kids how to create a patronus because he himself could not or was unwilling to show his students the doe patronus. He both had to keep the doe private and he also would probably get made fun of if people saw he had a 'female' patronus or at least that might be his fear to be humiliated.

So JKR had to have a way for Snape to NOT teach the kids patronus magic...because he couldn't. So she adds the little tidbit that he and harry disagree.

But if that IS JKR's reason then she's got Snape telling a lie and arguing there is another way, when there really isn't.

[oryx_leucoryx]

There is another reason Severus can't cast his Patronus in public: The DEs would know he isn't on their side.

We know there is another way of dealing with dementors. Harry discovers it inadvertently when he is carried through the forest in Hagrid's arms. Sirius discovers it in Azkaban - having a sane but not happy thought to focus on diminishes the effect of dementors to something one can live with. Severus would only know this from experience.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

There is another reason Severus can't cast his Patronus in public: The DEs would know he isn't on their side.

I assumed that was a given when I wrote he could not, but yes, so Voldie and the DE would not see it.

Severus would only know this from experience.

I don't know if we can say for sure his information on dementors 'only' comes from experience. He could have read about dementors in a book. I'm sure there are other books in the restricted section for example that have information. There could be a book that either is about or has a section about dementors, etc.

The ministry could have shared info with the school on how to deal with them. When the Dementors were place at Hogwarts the Ministry could have given give all the staff info and lessons on what to do and how to control them.

I remember from POA, when they were all in the shack Severus made a comment about he would/could call the dementors when they got out of the shack. So it sounds a bit like HE knows a way to summon them, etc. Sounds a bit like he and other staff might have been given instructions.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Severus isn't Hermione. He wouldn't rely on something from a book or from the Ministry without testing it himself before recommending it to another, especially a student. But of course he may have done all his experimentation with dementors during POA, there were enough of them around.

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

I don't quite see how reading info from a book makes him like Hermione. He was telling Lily about Dementors at 9 years old and I'm pretty sure he was depending on information from someone else - I very seriously doubt 9 year old Severus had met Dementors in person and held a conversation or had experirence with one so he could pass that info on to Lily.

He must have aquired the info from somewhere else, either a book or his mother or another magical person. He trusted the information enough to pass it on as factual to Lily back then.

I doubt if Severus tested every single magic spell/lesson/theories that he had read in books. All those books in Spinners End doesn't equal he did ever single spell in them. I am sure there was some magic he knew or had read about he might not have tried but knew the info to be factual and/or correct. Enough so that he could at least teach it and explain it to another person.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

The DEs would know he isn't on their side.

Would they? We don't know if they ever saw Lily's Patronus (assuming Harry's out-of-nowhere guess was even correct) and though I seem to remember some assertion that Dark wizards are incapable of casting Patroni (and what's the dividing line between someone like Snape, Draco, or Harry who casts some Dark spells but isn't Dark themselves, and someone like Bella?), I cannot believe that they are incapable of focusing on a happy memory, so is there a problem here at all?

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

JKR didn't say that they 'can't create a patronus. The question she was asked was reguarding Snape.

The question I think was something like was Snape the only death eater who can produce a full patronus.

Her answer was:

"Yes, because a Patronus is used against things that the Death Eaters generally generate, or fight alongside. They would not need Patronuses."

So, technically it isn't that they can't make them, it sounds more like they just choose not to because they don't need them.

Which is kinda dumb honestly because if I was a evil baddie I'd want to know all kinds of magic.

So, I think the situation would be more like, Severus would get funny looks from the other Death Eaters if they saw him produce a patronus. It would bring up to many questions as to...why do you have a patronus, causing distrust.

Maybe it's just something they don't do because a patronus is considered for the good guys. So, I don't know that JKR is saying that a bad guy can't make a patronus...it sounds more like they're to dumb to think they need them.

This would qualify Severus as the only smart person in the group obviously because what kind of bad guys choose not to have a useful weapon or protection?

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Dementors are probably about the only actual invention in this series that Rowling can claim as her own. Just about everything else was lifted from some other source, usually folklore. But the Dementors are hers, alone. (Unless they are simply repurposed Blue Meanies.)

They are also primarily symbolic, and used for whatever purpose she felt she needed at whatever given moment. She never really nailed them down, so everything that was ever said about them tends to be back-to-front, upside down, inside-out, and illogical.

That said, I have seen some rather interesting interpretations in a couple of fanfics. One of them being that when a Dementor eats a soul, the soul carries it through the veil and out of the world. (And, consequently, that's how one gets rid of one permanently. Not a price one is usually willing to pay.) Another is that they are a form of hive demon which made a pact with the early Ministry (i.e., another hive) bck aroud the time that the WW separated itself from the wider one, and discovered that it needed its own means to control it's subjects, given that they were n longer accessible by the existing justice systems.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

But the Dementors are hers, alone. (Unless they are simply repurposed Blue Meanies.)

Which is why I suggested defeating them using music, Beethoven in this case. Please see below.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

I have a big issue with creatures you cannot destroy. JKR stated in an interview that you can't destroy a dementor. IF you have a creature that can breed, and these creatures are breeding in the most common of locations then shouldn't the dementors be overrunning the world at this point?

I know how to destroy them. Drive or lure them into a concert hall and perform Beethoven's Ninth Symphony. When it gets to the Ode to Joy, they'll all disintegrate. :D

We are lead to believe Severus does know a better way. So it is possible he studied dementors without classroom direction...Maybe we don't know when he would have learned - on his own or in school...We know that Severus takes the motivation on himself to study and learn. He did not need a classroom to prompt him to learn about magic.

Yet another reason Snape is a bad guy: He actually cares about learning and makes the effort to learn and invent new things. Wanting and/or needing to improve yourself is proof you're defective. It's also that Slytherin ambition in action. This is unlike Harry, who hates learning, has little ambition, and sits around on his can waiting to be rescued by his creator. Harry doesn't have to go to the trouble of learning new stuff or practicing anything because he's perfect just as he is. Harry Potter=Edward Cullen in Twilight.