The History of the Order of the Phoenix

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

A question that has been asked multiple times in DTCL and elsewhere is why Dumbledore formed the Order of the Phoenix during Vold War I. Why did he need to form an independent militia to fight against Voldemort's death eaters when, at the time, he had significant power within the Ministry of Magic and the Ministry was already fighting against Voldemort? Another question that I've been pondering is what role Arabella Figg played in the Order during the first war. Since both wars seem to have been fairly limited to the wizarding world, it's hard to imagine how Arabella, a squib, might have been involved before she began monitoring Harry in Little Whinging, yet Dumbledore named her in GoF as being part of the "old crowd."

But Terri's recent essays got me thinking... are we certain that Dumbledore founded the Order of the Phoenix in response to Voldemort, or is it possible that Dumbledore originally created it in order to fight Grindelwald?

We know that it was Dumbledore's duel that finally ended Grindelwald's reign of terror, but we also know that Wizarding Britain was not formally involved in World War II. Thus any British wizards who were involved in that war were probably working independently of the British Ministry of Magic. And any groups of British wizards that were involved in that war were probably independent militias. (Could this be how the Knights of Walpurgis originated?)

I find it rather unlikely that Dumbledore was working entirely on his own. He probably had others helping him to gather intelligence about Grindewald's activities, including squibs who had some understanding of the muggle side of the war, such as, perhaps, a young Arabella Figg. And he probably brought some other fighters with him to that final battle/duel, maybe some friends and former students, such as, perhaps, a young Alastor Moody. It would have been stupid for him to have confronted Grindelwald without any backup.

It makes sense to me that this group working with Dumbledore would have given themselves a fancy name like "The Order of the Phoenix," especially after they won. And it makes sense that this group would have become famous, along with Dumbledore, in the decades after Grindelwald's defeat; children from James Potter's generation would have grown up hearing tales about the Order of the Phoenix in the same way that the children from Harry Potter's generation grew up with the legend of the Boy-Who-Lived. Even if Dumbledore did do most of the work on his own, it makes sense that he would have given the Order some of the credit in order to keep attention away from his personal history with Grindelwald. And it therefore makes a fair amount of sense that the Ministry might have called upon the now legendary Order of the Phoenix to assist in the war against Voldemort in the 1970's. Since they had already defeated one dark lord, they could hopefully defeat another.

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

Moody describes the photograph as 'the original Order of the Phoenix'. Even if the Order was founded a couple of years before the photo was taken, the people in the picture should have been members from the time of its founding. If we don't take Moody all that literally, still it wouldn't be a suitable description for an organization that has been around for more than a generation's time before the photo was taken.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

Well, let's see. There are 21 people in that photograph, plus Mundungus Fletcher and Arabella Figg, that were in the original Order. We can say with some certainty that 10 of those 23 people were too young to have fought against Grindenwald: Lily, James, Sirius, Remus, Peter, Frank, Alice, Gideon, Fabian, and Sturgis.

But the other 13 members were or might have been old enough to be involved in 1945, given the information we have. And, if there were only 10-15 members in the 1940's, then a photograph taken in 1981 would still show most of the "original order," even if it was founded 40 years earlier.

[oryx_leucoryx]

You know, even Hagrid only came of age in December 1945, so despite being out of school for years was too young to have been part of an order of warriors from the days of Grindelwald. You are looking for people at least older than Hagrid - of age by 1945 (preferably earlier), at least 53 in 1981 when the photograph was taken, and those who survived to 1995 were at least 67 by then. How many were there among the 12 not definitely too young? We know for certain about Albus, Aberforth and Elphias. Probably Alastor, maybe Arabella. Edgar Bones was brother of Amelia Bones and uncle of Susan Bones so I'm inclined to think he wasn't quite old enough. I doubt more than a third of the people in the photograph were of the right age.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

----No, I think that some unnamed old Auror or something formed the Order, who long since died....

That's an interesting idea. I can even give you a possible name: Charlus Potter. He was probably about 25 in 1945 and possibly died in the same incident that took his wife, Dorea, at the age of 59, in 1979, before the photograph was taken.

As the owner of the Cloak, he may have known that the Hallows were real and would therefore have been especially concerned about Grindewald.

His role in the Order would explain the favoritism that Albus showed James at Hogwarts. And it would explain how James and friends became involved in the Order.

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

Or, if not Charlus, then maybe it was his father who started the group.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hmm. On the train James accompanied his declaration of wanting to be in Gryffindor by miming wielding a sword. Perhaps he was raised on a story about one of his own ancestors summoning the sword of Gryffindor at a time of need?

(I'm going through some old threads now, refreshing my memory.)