Harry Potter Abridged! OotP Chapter 17

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

[Now that so many students have pledged to resist Umbridge, Harry’s mood improves]

Harry: NOW they’ll see which of us is crazy!

[One day Harry and his friends see a worrisome message on the board]

Harry: Oh, no! Umbridge forbids any clubs that don’t have her permission to exist! But…how ever did she find out about us?!

Ron: I don’t know! It’s not like she was there!

Harry: Maybe one of the people who signed up betrayed us to Umbridge?! [Cries]

Ron: I’ll bet it’s that slimy, good-for-nothing Hufflepuff, Zacharias Smith!

Harry: Do you think Hermione knows?

Ron: Let’s tell her at once so she can get us out of this!

[They try to go up the stairs to the girls’ bedroom, but it turns into a stone slide and they fall down]

Ron: What the hell?! Hermione’s allowed in our bedroom!

Hermione: It’s a precaution to prevent the boys from raping the girls. After all, it’s not like girls could ever rape boys, or anything.

Ron: Well, never mind that now! Umbridge has banned our club!

[Hermione reads the notice]

Hermione: …What?!

Ron: So, who do you think sold us out?

Hermione: There’s no way anyone sold us out. I put a curse on the parchment to punish anyone who talked.

Ron: What? But I thought you specifically said that sign-up sheet was non-binding.

Hermione: You can’t tell me you fell for a denial that specific. Anyway, I wonder if anyone else in the school knows about this….

[They go to the Great Hall, where a group of fellow Gryffindors come up to them]

Ginny: So…what are we going to do about that notice?

Harry: We’ll just have to find a way to meet in secret, that’s all.

Fred: And…the Prefects are okay with this?

Hermione: You’ll get no resistance from Ron and me.

Ron: Hermione, several of our co-conspirators are coming over to us. Is that bad?

Hermione: Yes it is—we can’t let ourselves be caught meeting within sight of the teachers!

Ginny: I’ll go lure Michael Corner away for you.

Hermione: Good girl. [To the others] Sorry, we can’t meet in sight of the teachers. Go put yourselves into cold storage until we come up with a plan.

Ernie and Hannah: Awwww…. [Wander away]

[As they’re about to leave, Angelina comes up to them]

Angelina: Harry, Ron! Umbridge is forcing us to ask permission to continue Quidditch!

Harry and Ron: What?!

Angelina: Harry, if you don’t stop making Umbridge angry she might cancel Quidditch permanently!

Harry: Don’t worry, I’ll do better from now on.

Angelina: You expect me to believe that?!

Harry: Trust me. I’m the main character. All will work out in the end.

Angelina: I hope you’re right.

[They go to History of Magic…]

Ron: Oh, look. No Umbridge.

[Suddenly…]

Hermione: Look! It’s Hedwig in the window!

Harry: Hedwig?! But why?!

Hedwig: Help me! I’m injured!

Harry: Injured?! [Runs over to Hedwig] What happened to you?!

Hedwig: Owww, my wing hurts! Be gentle!

Harry: Professor Binns! Professor Binns!

Professor Binns: …Yes? What is it, you useless lump?

Harry: My owl’s—I mean, I’m not feeling well and I need to be excused.

Professor Binns: Whatever, it’s not like you contribute to my class.

Harry: Yay! [Runs off with Hedwig in tow] Let’s see…ordinarily I’d take her to Hagrid, but of course Hagrid’s not here…. Professor Grubbly-Plank it is, then! [Runs to staffroom]

Gargoyles: Alright, what’s the password?

Harry: Get the fuck out of my way, that’s what! I’m the main character and I don’t have to take orders from you!

McGonagall: What is all this commotion about?

Harry: Professor McGonagall! My owl’s been injured and I need to give her to Professor Grubbly-Plank!

Professor Grubbly-Plank: Hi!

Harry: There you are! Could you please fix my owl’s wing for me?

Professor Grubbly-Plank: [Takes Hedwig] It looks like she was attacked. It could be a Thestral, but the Thestrals around here are pretty well-trained….

McGonagall: Harry, where did your owl fly from?

Harry: Oh, you know…that one place….

McGonagall: Oh, yes—that place!

Professor Grubbly-Plank: …Could I be outside of an inside joke? [to Harry] I’ll take care of your owl for you, but she shouldn’t fly long distances for awhile.

Harry: Of course, of course!

Professor Grubbly-Plank: Alright, then I’ll take my leave.

McGonagall: Did Harry ever get his mail?

Professor Grubbly-Plank: …Oh, right. Here you go. [Hands Harry his letter and walks away]

McGonagall: You know what I think? I think someone opened your letter and read it.

Harry: Oh, shit…you’re probably right.

[Harry later relays this to Ron and Hermione]

Hermione: This isn’t good.

Harry: Maybe it didn’t happen that way? I mean, the letter was sealed. And it’s not like anyone would know what the message meant….

Hermione: Well, they could have resealed the letter by magic, and could be monitoring the Floo network as we speak….

Harry: …Oh, no….

[Later that day, they run into Draco]

Draco: So, yeah, Umbridge gave the Slytherins permission to play right away. Whereas you Gryffindors? Won’t get permission at all. Because Umbridge actually favors us for once.

Hermione: My friends will never rise to your provocations! Not if I have to tie them up on leashes!

Draco: By the way, Harry, it’s my professional opinion that you’ve lost your sanity and need to be put in St. Mungo’s. You poor insane man.

Neville: Hey! Don’t insult my parents like that! [Charges at Draco]

Harry: How dare you, Navel! I can’t allow you to antagonize Draco—he’s my archenemy! [grabs Neville’s robe]

Neville: He’s making light of my parent’s mental problems! Also my name’s not Navel!

Harry: Shut up! Don’t make Crabbe and Goyle come after you—you haven’t got main character immunity like we have!

Draco: Wow, Navel—I didn’t know you had a tragic past.

Neville: My…name…is…not…NAVEL!

Snape: You called?

Draco: Oh, hello Professor….

Snape: Alright, Gryffindors—you can stop fighting and embarrassing yourselves now. Just get into class.

Ron: Harry, I’ve never seen Navel so upset before!

Neville: I heard that! [Stalks off]

Harry: Don’t be too hard on him—his parents were tortured into insanity by Death Eaters. And his name sucks.

Neville: I heard that too!

[they get to Potions to find Umbridge there!]

Harry: Did I mention that I actually can’t choose whether I hate Umbridge or Snape more? I just might hate Snape even more than I hate the woman who tried to cut up my hand and read The Draco Trilogy to me.

Snape: Alright, so, you children can just make strengthening solutions while I show this woman who’s the boss in the dungeon.

Harry: This is boring. I’ll just eavesdrop on Umbridge and Snape.

Umbridge: Snape, Snape! Why are you teaching them how to make a strengthening solution of all things?

Snape: You have to ask? You…do realize this is my class, right?

Umbridge: Whatever. How long have you been teaching?

Snape: About fourteen years.

Umbridge: I see. I heard you really wanted to teach Defense Against the Dark Arts?

Snape: Yes, that is correct.

Umbridge: So why aren’t you teaching that right now?

Snape: Oh, you know how it is—Dumbledore thinks it’s improper for a Slytherin to teach that class. He says we’re not manly enough.

Umbridge: You’re sure that’s the story you want to go with?

Snape: Positive.

[Umbridge goes off to speak to some other students]

Harry: Aww, I was hoping for something more exciting.

Snape: I heard that, you! [Walks over to Harry] You made that potion wrong! [Vanishes potion] Honestly, you are quite hopeless.

Harry: No fair! It’s not my fault your battle of wits with Umbridge was so much more interesting than my stupid potion!

Snape: …You don’t say—I mean, you’d better start catching up on your studies soon, young man! Since you couldn’t make the potion write me an essay on it!

Harry: Oh, great! Can I get any more things piled on my head?!

[They go to Divination…]

Professor Trelawney: So…you kids just continue your lessons…and…and don’t mind me…. I’ll…I’ll just be off sulking in a corner and examining my life choices…!

Harry: Wow, she seems so gloomy!

Parvati: Professor, what happened to you?!

Professor Trelawney: It’s Umbridge! She’s…she’s put me on teaching probation, sold my prized children’s book to Disney, and forced me to read fanfiction pairing me with Professor Snape!

Harry: That exists?

Parvati: The indignity!

Professor Trelawney: But…other than that, everything’s fine.

[They go to Defense Against the Dark Arts…]

Harry: Hermione, you agree with Umbridge that Trelawney is a fraud, don’t you?

Hermione: No, I think she’s a fraud in a good way, while Umbridge thinks it in an evil way. It’s totally different.

Umbridge: Alright, continue reading your books and don’t bother me.

[Later on…]

Angelina: By the way, Umbridge won’t let us practice Quidditch right now.

Harry: NO! MY LIFE IS OVER!

Hermione: Well at least you have time to do Snape’s essay now.

Harry: THAT’S SUPPOSED TO MAKE ME FEEL BETTER?!

Angelina: You can stop capslocking now.

Harry: OH?! CAN I?!

[Meanwhile, Fred and George are demonstrating a Skiving Snackbox to their fellow students]

Fred: First I eat the orange half. [Eats an orange candy and vomits]

George: And then he eats the purple half.

Fred: I…can…do…this…. [Forces down purple candy] See? I’m all better!

Lee Jordan: We’re not responsible if you die of dehydration.

Gryffindors: Wow! This is awesome!

Hermione: Those two…. Grrrr….

Ron: Well, why don’t you stop them, then?

Hermione: Because they’re not breaking any school rules, and those snackboxes could be handy plot points someday.

Ron: I knew you’d understand!

Harry: You know, Fred and George are actually pretty smart. I don’t know why they’re not doing better in school.

Hermione: Well, they don’t seem skilled with anything that doesn’t pertain to silly practical jokes.

Ron: And who’s to say silly practical jokes aren’t valuable, hm? Like you said, plot points.

[Sometime later, Sirius’s head appears in the fireplace!]

Sirius: Hi!

Harry: Hello, Sirius! It’s so good to hear from you!

Sirius: So how are things?

Harry: Well, Umbridge has banned our top-secret meetings to help destroy her evilness, but other than that, everything’s fine.

Sirius: So that’s why you met in the Hog’s Head?

Harry: How did you know we’ve been to the Hog’s Head?!

Sirius: News travels fast in Hogsmeade. Anyway, did it ever occur to you that you’d actually be less likely to be overheard in a more crowded pub like the Three Broomsticks?

Hermione: You mean… I made a miscalculation?! AAAARGH! Stupid stupid stupid!

Sirius: Anyway, it was Mundungus who reported to me. He’s been keeping an eye on you.

Harry: So that means…I’m still being followed.

Sirius: Yes. Anyway, Ron, your mother says she doesn’t want you to be a part of this Defense Against the Dark Arts group, lest you be expelled.

Ron: She says that now, but I know she’ll come around in the end.

Harry: Well, Sirius, what do you think?

Sirius: I think starting this club was the right choice, myself. You’re better off learning to defend yourself, even if you do get expelled.

Harry: Oh, Sirius! You understand me! [Cries tears of joy]

Sirius: So, anyway, where are you going to meet?

Harry: Oh, crap. We still don’t have a meeting place.

Sirius: The Shrieking Shack, perhaps?

Hermione: That won’t work. It’ll be too conspicuous if we all try to fit in there.

Sirius: Well…maybe there’s another secret hiding place you can use. Let me get back to you—

[Just then, Umbridge’s hand appears in the fire!]

Harry, Ron, and Hermione: RUN AWAY! [They return to their bedrooms]

EXTRAS:

Umbridge: Hermione, I saw you talking to Ernie Macmillan and Hannah Abbot earlier. You weren’t planning anything, were you?

Hermione: Ahaha—we were just…ah…trying to shoo those unworthy Hufflepuffs away from our totally superior Gryffindor table!

Umbridge: I’ll have you know I’m a graduate of Hufflepuff house!

Hermione: You? A Hufflepuff? Don’t make me laugh—you must be a Slytherin!

Umbridge: I tell you, I’m a Hufflepuff!

Hermione: Haha! That’s a good one! Next thing I know, you’ll be telling me about your sexually-abusive stepfather!

Umbridge: H-how did you know about that?!

Hermione: …Oh.... Okay then....

Comments

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/After all, it’s not like girls could ever rape boys, or anything./

*cough* Merope Gaunt *cough*

/I put a curse on the parchment to punish anyone who talked./

AFTER they talked. Which means that the secret would still be out anyway.

/I just might hate Snape even more than I hate the woman who tried to cut up my hand and read The Draco Trilogy to me./

*snorts*

Oh, Harry, you really can’t make your mind up about who you hate the most. I notice that Voldemort is never on that list.

/Hermione: No, I think she’s a fraud in a good way, while Umbridge thinks it in an evil way. It’s totally different./

That’s a good point.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

/*cough* Merope Gaunt *cough*/
Not to mention Romilda Vane's attempted roofieing of Harry in HBP.

But, then again, barring access to dorms wouldn't help there. Just PERHAPS DOSING ALL DRINKS WITH ANTIDOTES TO THE EASY-TO-OBTAIN, BREWABLE-IN-A-FEW-HOURS MIND-RAPE DRUGS.

Seriously, fanfiction does silly things with them, but love potions are horrific. (Not least because the absurd love-potion plots in fanfiction aren't actually banned by canon. You COULD hypothetically dose someone into marrying you so you could steal their fortunes. Say... I wonder if Blaise Zabini's mother has a nice Potions business on the side...) And Hogwarts teaches IN CLASS how to brew the strongest one known? I mean - what. They shouldn't even be LEGAL.

/end rant

/Oh, Harry, you really can’t make your mind up about who you hate the most. I notice that Voldemort is never on that list./
Some Snapefans have made the point, if I recall correctly, that the conflict between Snape and Harry is a bigger part of the books than the conflict between Voldemort than Harry. Assuming they mean with respect to character interactions and not with respect to plot, I agree. Voldemort really just runs around shrieking in the background for a lot of the books. Snape's the one Harry personally knows and hates.

On that subject, another point often made by anti-fans - Harry sure knows how to hate. Love is a different matter. I wonder how often in each book he states his hate for someone versus how often he states his love for someone? A tally might prove educational...

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

And let's not forget that the love potion idea is apparently 'parent-approved' by Molly! She gives Ginny and Hermione the impression that she used one to get Arthur to notice her.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

I am thankful I don't remember that part of the books.

I also wonder if the books would be significantly improved if JKR had never attempted to put any romance in them. The more she talks about a pairing, the more wildly disastrous it gets. I used to think Grindelwald/Dumbledore was particularly persecuted on that front, but no - every pairing she discusses overlong tends to acquire a rancid stink.

Oh well. Let's just hope Next-Gen doesn't get hit too badly...

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Well, it was a drop-by line in PoA, I think it was before Harry boarded the train (or maybe before he left the Leaky Cauldron for King's Cross) and Arthur tried to tell him to stay away from Sirius Black, whom Harry had no personal reason to go after at all, no siree. And during that he heard Molly tell Hermione and Ginny about a love potion she'd brewed, and "all three of them appeared giggly".

This is boardering on slut-shaming, perhaps, but even the non-flattering evaluation of Ginny being "the girl who dates" has nothing on her dear mother.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

Next Gen has already started out badly with the emotionally incestuous Teddy/Victoire. Unless Bill and Fleur wised up and moved back to Egypt (or maybe China--another continent, anyway) immediately after the war, Vicky has been going attending family holidays with Teddy since she was an embryo. If I ever write Next-Gen fanfic, I'll be sure to have them break up in a screaming argument within six months of the Dreaded Epilogue.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Would you like some fic recs for NextGen darkfics? From Archiveofourown (I believe the appreviation is "AO3"?) I've already discovered a lot and downloaded as epub files, including one that's ASP/SM with a sociopathic Albus, one where Teddy is the king of Gaslighting and ending up marrying Lily Ii, and one where a historical/political Role Playing in Hogwarts goes horribly, horribly wrong.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

I'm actually not big on darkfics--which is one reason I don't care for JKR's post-canon pairings. Everyone getting locked into their tiny, inbred world of cousins and childhood sweethearts and kids re-creating the lives of dead grandparents doesn't strike me as a tale of health and happiness. Or of much imagination, for that matter. An angry break-up between Teddy and Vicky is a step toward the Light.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

'Kay. Whatever floats your boat! :) the stories I have in mind of sharing actually deals with such problems and are totally disapproving of the "All is well" BS. If anyone wants to read them, reply on another thread and I'll take it from there.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/I also wonder if the books would be significantly improved if JKR had never attempted to put any romance in them/

Well, considering that most of the problems that people had with HBP was the romance, I wonder how that book would have ended up if the romance was completely absent. You would still have the Pensieve sessions and the subplot of Draco fixing the Vanishing Cabinet and trying to kill Dumbledore (would it then be promoted to the main plot?).

Since romance wasn’t a big part of DH, however, and plenty of people in this community have found lots of problems with that book, I don’t think that Ron and Hermione never kissing would have helped things.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

Everyone getting locked into their tiny, inbred world of cousins and childhood sweethearts and kids re-creating the lives of dead grandparents

What she shows us is a very stagnate world, the only innovation is shown by Twins which just for jokes. There is no real growth or creativity.

I don't see a happy future a few generations down the road.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

I think it was somebody here on DTCL who commented on the cultural poverty of a wizarding world that can support two joke shops but no theatre, concert hall, or art gallery.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

The film did it better by making it into a glad-we're-still-alive kiss. I was really worried that the soul-water-waves in its last gasps of life would actually hurt them.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Assuming you're correct about that scene being in PoA, I don't think it's necessarily problematic that Hermione and Ginny are giggling about love potions. Hermione would have been 13-almost-14 then, and Ginny 12. Middle school kids tend to be rather weird and crazy, so much so that many substitute teachers won't go to middle schools because the kids are much harder to handle than either elementary or high school kids.

However, a middle-aged woman with grown children giggling about rape drugs is really sick and completely inexcusable. What was JKR thinking? This is what happens when an author can't reason an argument to its logical conclusion, in this case, the reality that fictional "love potions" represent.

In one of Notwolf's great fanfics, we find out the reason Snape was obsessed with Lily was because when they were teenagers, Lily made a love potion using a recipe in Witch Weekly. It was just supposed to be a joke, and when it worked all too well, she didn't know how to reverse it and was too embarrassed by what she'd done to admit her mistake. More than 20 years later, Severus found out what had happened, was able to reverse it and find a woman to love and marry.

On an unrelated subject, is that a Sherlock Holmes icon? I like it a lot.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

I checked my PoA book, it was in the beginning of Chapter V "The Dementor":

They headed down to breakfast, where Mr. Weasley was reading the front page of the Daily Prophet with a furrowed brow and Mrs. Weasley was telling Hermione and Ginny about a love potion she’d made as a young girl. All three of them were rather giggly.

I might have used the term "A has nothing on B" wrongly, what I meant to convey is that even if we bash Ginny for dating a string of boys while hoping that Harry could only notice her, Mrs. Weasley's "no-big-deal"-ness regarding love potions is much, much worse.

Middle school (i presume you mean ages 13-16 and grades seven to nine) had been pure hell for me, I barely made any friends, schoolwork was tough in many ways and the classmates did their best to drive me bonkers with their general loudness, disrespect of most of the teachers and their incapability to talk about serious topics, not even once in a while. I pity the poor teachers, I really do; I didn't get a Snapish teacher until high school physics.

(Thank you so much for reccing Notwolf's fic! What site is it posted on? And what's the title? I'd love to read it; I read about the plot somewhere — perhaps on this very site — but didn't have enough info to find the fic.)

I know that RL date-rape drugs are mostly about incapacitating the victim (doubly dangerous when used in pubs or nightclubs, since the onlookers might mistake hir for just being drunk) so he/she wouldn't be able to protest the un-consenting sex; but HP love potions actually make the victim want to jump you. Even fantasizing about that effect makes me highly uncomfortable.

~*~

On an unrelated subject, is that a Sherlock Holmes icon? I like it a lot.

Bingo, indeed it is! He's very distinctive when he's all introspective while imbibing nicotine, eh? Thank you for saying that, I made the icon myself. In fact, the only two icons I didn't make myself are the Joker one and the Lucy Van Pelt Quoting Nietzsche one. You can steal this if you like, although I suggest you do a mirror-flip of it so we won't look entirely the same on this community. This icon came from a Chinese translation of SH that I own (well, the PDF files, at least), it was done back in 1979 and the quality still stands to this day. If you ever want to learn Chinese I recommend you read this version of SH instead of Harry Potter, the Chinese translation of the latter was rubbish. This translation if Sherlock Homes also had the most *gorgeous* set of illustration sketches in the opening of every book; they're original sketches done by a native artist using Chinese ink-brush techniques, and one day I might be able to send you the files so you can see for yourself. :-)

[annoni-no.livejournal.com]

"I might have used the term "A has nothing on B" wrongly, what I meant to convey is that even if we bash Ginny for dating a string of boys while hoping that Harry could only notice her, Mrs. Weasley's "no-big-deal"-ness regarding love potions is much, much worse"

There is no "we" bashing Ginny for dating multiple boys. There was one poster, Madderbrad, who refused to stop criticizing her dating despite being called out for the slut-shaming sexism of that criticism multiple times. Unless you agree that a female dating multiple males when all parties freely consent is immoral and should be punished, THERE IS NO COMPARISON TO BE MADE with the willful violation and rape of someone's mind and body.

If you do disagree with the idea that a girl dating multiple boys is worthy of censure, you shouldn't have made the comparison in the first place. If you agree with it, there are multiple, very long threads laying out in detail why those sentiments are sexist and unwelcome in this community. The most recent was in Mary_J_59's "A plea for tolerance?" Please do not bring this up again. I, and others, come here to relax, not be hit over the head with more bigotry and casual hate.

Also, FREE SPEECH!11!!!1eleventy1!!!! is not an excuse. Yes, you do have a right to free speech. You DO NOT have the right to an ***AUDIENCE***! Unless you are the owner of livejournal or moderator of this community, you have no more right to subject us to your bilge after being asked to stop than you do to harass someone in their private home, hijack a classroom to pontificate on your preferred topic, or graffiti your views on public walkways. Please. Just. Stop.
___

I don't expect children like Hermione and Ginny were at that time to know instinctively that Love Potions are immoral, especially when they are so romanticized by their culture. That cultural indoctrination is also important to remember when judging Molly.

Our current Enlightenment/Humanist value system is a recent development that grew out of centuries of activism and debate and struggle. People living in the millennia before that did not, by and large, treat their fellow humans with less dignity and deny them their freedom and rights out of willful ignorance and malice (there were exceptions). They did so because that was all they had ever known, and the assumptions on which that inequality was built were so ubiquitous they seemed as unobjectionable as pointing out that things fall to the ground when dropped. This is why visionaries who can imagine a more just and equitable world, and convince others to join them in creating it, are so rare and valuable.

Getting back to Molly, it's clear the WW has no problem with love potions. Unpleasant if YOU'RE dosed with one behind your back, perhaps, but generally silly and harmless. They seem to follow the reasoning that if you felt pleasure at the time, it couldn't have been that bad, rather like the people who still claim that if someone orgasmed, than obviously they couldn't have been raped. Which is harmful and toxic and just wrong on every level. Because Molly grew up in this toxic environment and was never really exposed to other viewpoints (nor did she realistically have an opportunity to be without expending massive resources and time - which she might never have had available - to research outside of her community), I don't fault her as harshly for not realizing how problematic love potions are as I would someone who grew up in a first world muggle country and should be well aware of the importance of consent (Rowling). That doesn't mean she's blameless for not looking at the matter critically and coming to her own conclusions. On the other hand, I don't think Molly is the type of person who is psychologically capable of that level of self-awareness, in which case it's rather unreasonable to demand of her something she just. can't. do.

If Rowling had deconstructed the use of love potions later, then I would have no problem with this scene. What we got instead in book 6 was... problematic at best, and thoroughly inadequate to the issues raised.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

My apologies. It was very wrong of me to drag people down with that usage of "we". You expressed plainly and coherently why it was wrong to fault Ginny like that, and I shall do the best I can to understand that and amend my ways in future posting. However, nowhere in my previous comment as far as I can see did I play the free speech card or "demand an audience". I agreed with someone else's offensive and unplesant viewpoint and got called out on it. Good for you and boo to me. The criticisms you made came naturally and practically wrote themselves, how could I be asking for them if (until the point of posting my last comment, at least) I thought of my words as OK?

[annoni-no.livejournal.com]

My point that the right to free speech does not equal the right to an audience was intended as a preemptive rebuttal to an argument that many, many people, and Brad, in particular, have repeatedly raised as an excuse for offensive content and refusal to respect the wishes of others that they refrain in a particular community. I did not, under any circumstances, want to be drawn into another cycle of arguments over "FREEZE PEACH!!!!1!" rights when the subject has already been debated here ad nauseam. I truly cannot express in words how sick I am of free speech being used as an excuse to insult, harass, intimidate, denigrate, marginalize, slander, and even threaten others by claiming requests for simple courtesy in a private community is an abridgement of fundamental rights. If you want to talk about those horrible sluts not waiting long enough between boyfriends, or whatever it is that interests you personally, you are more than welcome to start your own blog on the subject if the community you've been posting in makes it clear they don't share that interest.

If this particular issue doesn't apply to you, then it doesn't apply to you. There are far too many people who don't share your enlightenment to take that as given.

The criticisms you made came naturally and practically wrote themselves, how could I be asking for them if (until the point of posting my last comment, at least) I thought of my words as OK?

I'm not sure what you mean by this. Do you mean you didn't expect anyone to object since you thought you were correct, and thus we would agree with you? Or did you think people might object but not be irritated at needing to deal (AGAIN!) with the same sexist sludge we had to wade through extensively less than a few months ago? Did you expect only a particular type of criticism? If so, how did you expect us to respond?

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

Only Madderbrad seems to have objected to 'serial dating' per se, but 'dating a string of boys while hoping that Harry would notice her' IS a problem if Ginny is consciously leading boys to think she likes them when in fact she's just using them to attract Harry. This is not fair to the boys who believe she's sincere in her affections. So there can indeed be room for criticism of her social life without 'slut-shaming.'

On the other hand, it's possible Ginny was genuinely trying to get over her crush on Harry and become interested in other boys, but it simply didn't work out. Michael and Dean were okay, but in the end they didn't measure up to Harry. Interpreted in those terms, there's no reason at all to object to Ginny's dating behavior at all. Canon allows for either interpretation.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Please don't be mad. I don't even know what the heck I wrote anymore (it seemed so clear at the time), let me apoligize again:

I am now aware that the points I'd made before are sexist and wrong. Ridding myself of such a mindset, however, would not be so instantaneous (otherwise I'd just be a troll); so for the time being I shall try my best to never talk like that on LJ anymore, and if I'm lucky, I'd might have some real improvements in how I think. If I have any future lapses or display any other types of prejudice or bigotry, far be it for me to protest any of you calling out on my BS. It was not my intention to not let you critisize me, it's just that I'm not comforable with the usage of "preemptive" 'And don't say that—' kind of reasoning. I've used it on other people before and the results were never good. But maybe it's due to my fluctuation of empathy, most of the time I can't even attempt to understand what other people feel. And I have to change that.

[vermouth1991.livejournal.com]

Agreed. It's just that we won't be sure how much of Ginny's holding-out-for-Harry affected her relationships with the other boys, and how much was they're-not-meant-to-be-anyway.

[jana-ch.livejournal.com]

Everyone has an emotional history that effects their relationships. If only the Pure of Heart (in the sense of having zero emotional baggage) were allowed to date, we’d all be monks and nuns.

[guardians-song.livejournal.com]

but HP love potions actually make the victim want to jump you. Even fantasizing about that effect makes me highly uncomfortable.
Butting in way after the fact, but I'd say HP love potions are slightly worse than that. The strongest, Amortentia, produces a powerful obsession. Usually obsession is portrayed as dangerous to the target of the obsession (and it can be), but it could prove equally dangerous to the one obsessing if the subject of the obsession is already prepared to use them.

In other words, love potions don't necessarily make the victim want to jump you. They might make the victim willing to do anything you like just for the sake of you acknowledging their existence. Even if what you like makes them sick to their stomachs.

TBH, if you strip the name off, "love potions" have great potential in the formation of a personality cult. Brew up several batches, invite your potential followers to lunch, and Imperius the waiter to put a little something extra in their drinks...

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

... there are multiple, very long threads laying out in detail why those sentiments are sexist and unwelcome in this community. The most recent was in Mary_J_59's "A plea for tolerance?"

Which had absolutely nothing to do with Ginny's serial dating.

And which did not have anything like unanimous concurrence to her plea on self-censorship.

Yes, you do have a right to free speech. You DO NOT have the right to an ***AUDIENCE***!

What a horrible, horrible machination to destroy fair play in this LJ community.

Unless you are the owner of livejournal or moderator of this community, you have no more right to subject us to your bilge ...

And you don't have any more right to slap 'BILGE! BECAUSE I SAY SO!' stickers on posts you don't like and proclaim them forbidden with authority you do not possess. (My understanding being that *you* are not an owner of Livejournal or a moderator of this community.)

... after being asked to stop ...

As I said, one person - Mary J - put up a 'please stop' post - regarding attacks on J. Rowling, nothing to do with Ginny being the Girl Who Dates - and she did NOT get unanimous agreement.

With every fibre of my being I detest people who forbid all speech that they personally don't like, no matter the rules that they would normally accept and condone. If this was your journal then you would have ultimate power to do whatever you liked - fair or otherwise.

But you don't have that power here, and it is disingenuous to the extreme for you to jump up and down in your jackboots and pretend that you do. Or that the entire community, minus big bad Brad, is behind you.

I'm not going to discuss the 'Ginny serial dater' thing because - as I think I mentioned in that long-ago thread - there's a chance that your draconian histrionics will snowball into ugliness in a community that, absent your bullying, is typically free from such. I'm making this comment to register my resistance to you laying down the law to others on how you think this community should run. Your hounding of vermouth1991 in this case was sickening.

Please. Just. Stop.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I am now aware that the points I'd made before are sexist and wrong.

I'm not sure they were. But if annoni_no had her way only her opinion as to 'right and wrong' would matter in this community, no other perspective would be necessary or welcome. Thankfully that's (currently) not the case, as far as I'm aware.

I came across this post only a few days ago and saw that my name was mentioned. You'll see that I expressed my disgust with annoni_no's attempts to lay down the law (all over you) in a comment below. As far as I know people are still allowed to express their opinions in this community ... even if they are not personally approved by annoni_no.

As to what you said originally:

This is boardering on slut-shaming, perhaps, but even the non-flattering evaluation of Ginny being "the girl who dates" has nothing on her dear mother.

'Slut shaming' is only vaguely connected to Ginny's title of The Girl Who Dates. annoni_no has to make several huge leaps to grant them equivalence. She's confused, I believe, thinking that a view of Ginny as The Girl Who Dates being *consistent* with (i.e. a 'subset of') 'Slut Shaming' means that one who holds the former view must surely agree with the latter. Whereas that is, of course, not the case. But annoni_no can't understand that one can see Ginny as The Girl Who Dates without making all of the jumps in illogic that she personally does to arrive at SLUT SHAMING OMG MUST SUPPRESS.

I have to agree with you and oneandthetruth and others that "a middle-aged woman with grown children giggling about rape drugs is really sick and completely inexcusable." Well, perhaps not with quite the same vehemence as per oneandthetruth's statement. I suppose a Rowling apologist could try and 'weaken' the efficacy of love potions, try and make out that it wasn't a big deal. And yet we know, from HBP, how seriously mind-altering they can be, viz Romilda's potion's effects on Ron.

HP love potions actually make the victim want to jump you. Even fantasizing about that effect makes me highly uncomfortable.

Yeah. Rowling just *didn't think* about what she wrote. I guess when she wrote the line with Molly - in PoA, you said? - she hadn't worked out how *strong* love potions could be (as was the case for most of the series, which she was making up as she went along). And then by HBP she'd probably forgotten what she'd written in PoA, given as how she's said how she's never re-read any of her books.

Ultimately, if the Imperius Curse is held to be an Unforgiveable, I'd say love potions should be put in the same category. And not sold in joke shops. :-)