OotP Chapter Thirty

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

*Aw, can we skip Grawp? No?. All right. On we go.

*Harry suspects that although Umbridge and Filch can’t remove the swamp, teachers like McGonagall and Flitwick could, but choose not to do so. Despite Harry's bad track record at knowing what's going on, when he says thinks like that it's the author cleverly working around the limited pov to tell us it's true.

*A troll is now guarding Harry’s broom. This broom will have quite the tales to tell when it retires. It is the Edmund Dantes of brooms.

*Odd things are happening to the Inquisitorial Squad when they try to help Filch stop students from setting off dung bombs, etc. The IS seems to be remembered for enforcing Umbridge’s rule with an iron fist, but really they strut around for the first day, then get stuck having to try to help Filch keep people from making the messes he’s got to clean up. That's the glamour of helping Umbridge, guys. You get to be assistants to Filch.

*Hermione is particularly delighted when Pansy sprouts antlers. Is there some personal story going on between these two we don't know about, or is it just the way of things that naturally they hate each other?

*ETA: Well, at least I finally get that now thanks to JKR's interviews. Hermione's probably also pleased that Pansy didn't get to marry Draco.

*Also, I know I'm totally a bad audience for this book when McGonagall proves she's cool by telling Peeves how to unscrew that chandelier and I think, Is that going to come down on someone's head?? I so do not like practical jokes.

*Btw, I’m sure this whole period will do wonders in making Filch nicer to students in future. ETA: As will Harry's light-hearted japes in the next book.

*Umbridge, for all the hints that she is Big Brother, really doesn’t have much in the way of intelligence (of the espionage kind) at all. She doesn’t even know about the Skiving Snackboxes. Do none of the Slytherins know about these?

*On second thought, I’m glad we didn’t miss this chapter, as it contains that great example of the cold, black heart of our heroes:

To cap matters, Montague had still not recovered from his sojourn in the toilet (note: toilet, not vanishing cabinet is mentioned); he remained confused and disorientated and his parents were to be observed one Tuesday morning striding up the front drive, looking extremely angry.

'Should we say something' said Hermione in a worried voice (the worried voice has convinced me: she's the heart of compassion!), pressing her cheek against the Charms window so that she could see Mr. and Mrs. Montague marching inside. 'About what happened to him? In case it helps Madam Pomfrey cure him?’

'Course not, he'll recover,’ said Ron indifferently. (This is coming from someone who spent Christmas on the closed ward and met no less than three examples of people who didn’t recover.).

'Anyway, more trouble for Umbridge, isn't it?' said Harry in a satisfied voice…."

'That’s all very well, but what if Montague's permanently injured?'

'Who cares?' said Ron irritably….' Montague shouldn’t have tried to take all those points from Gryffindor, should he? (Can't argue with that logic.) If you want to worry about anyone, Hermione, worry about me!' (ETA: And that line pretty much sums up their marriage.)

*Then we get back to what's really important, that Ron might get a Howler because he'll be blamed for the twins leaving.

*Harry nobly confesses he gave the twins money for their shop to stop anybody from thinking their criminals (errr…) and Ron thinks this is great because he can blame Harry. It doesn’t occur to him that he could already blame Harry, since this all happened because the twins were creating a distraction for Harry, who wanted a chat with Sirius about those ten minutes back in 1976.

*By the way, said Howler never appears.

*From this exchange we get...wow—-every line gets an acting tip: Hermione speaks in a worried voice, Ron speaks indifferently and Harry speaks in a satisfied voice. Ron says something irritably. Also, I cut out Hermione saying something quickly (as she repairs Ron’s teacup-I wonder if she sits ready with a napkin at dinner in case either boy dribbles on his chin?) and cut right before Ron says something bitterly and then speaks darkly. WOW!

*All the stage directions make the Trio sound even harsher than they might have otherwise. ETA: Sadly, I once thought that, too, was part of the non-existant build-up to the kids realizing they were becoming a lot like the very thing they claimed to despise. Actually it's just showing them being cool and badass--if that's building up to something it's probably just Harry's gallant Crucio.

*Hermione, who has continued to knit house elf hats every minute despite disagreement, who handed Harry’s firebolt over for testing because she was afraid it was hexed back in book 3, and who continues to nag Harry about taking Occlumency, is easily quieted on the subject of Montague. She can barely hear that voice in her mind reminding her of that thing somebody taught her once, probably at Muggle school, about the right thing to do in this sort of situation.

*ETA: It's really strange the way Hermione is a totaly nag, yet a totally ineffectual nag. For all her yammering about ridiculous things (like not wanting to use the directions that actually work for Potions in HBP) she usually backs down about stuff where she should stand her ground. Handing over the broom in PoA was her best moment. Did she get so traumatized by the fall-out from that she never did it again?.

*It’s not even like she’d have to worry about the one thing they usually worry about, getting somebody in trouble, as the twins have already left. If the Montague story is never brought up again, or if he never recovers, we'll be left with the idea that Fred and George have permanently disabled someone for taking house points and got away with it. Good show, boys!

*ETA: I guess Draco's telling us that Montague told the other Slytherins what happens meant he did get better at some point. The only reason he's really being mentioned here is to set up how Draco knows about the Cabinet.

*Being 15 and continually called a nag is not a good sign.

*I love the way Harry starts to snap at Hermione to get over the twins, and she gets offended, not because she wasn't going to nag, but because she was switching to an alternate nag. It’s like she just has a file box in her head of all the storylines she needs to shove along (god knows nobody else will make the book happen) and flips from one to the other.

*Not only does Harry come up with a clever cover for his DoM dream (he was saying "just a bit further!" in his sleep because the was trying to help Ron finally reach a Quaffle) but he feels "vindictive pleasure" in making Ron's ears go red. Because Ron deserves to be humiliated over being a worse player than Harry, since he mentioned to Hermione that Harry muttered in his sleep. Harry's being vindictive in self-defense!

*ETA: Remember that's Voldemort making him do that sort of thing. Looking back it's totally not like Harry's real personality, right?

*Hermione is very "beady" in this scene. She has a beady eye and looks beadily at Harry. ETA: Clearly foreshadowing her beaded bag. Okay, not. I just wanted to write that. "Beady beadily beaded beads," said Beedle the Bard.

*In case we're keeping score, Harry's openly welcoming the dreams now. Usually I'm wary when people pass over Snape's shirking his own responsibility by refusing to teach Harry the subject by saying Harry wasn't even trying, but there really was no hope Snape could have succeeded regardless. The main reason Harry doesn't learn Occlumency is because Dumbledore refuses to give him a good reason to do it. I'm sure if he found himself in a situation where using Occlumency would be totally brave he'd do it fine.

*Ron says if Montague doesn't recover by the time they play Hufflepuff Gryffindor will get in the finals. Isn't that convenient that it works that way?

*The first time I read the book I thought this whole Quidditch story was supposed to symbolize the pointlessness of House rivalry: Gryffindor and Slytherin BOTH lose their important players and ability to win by trying to get at the other. Only then the whole thing was ruined when I realized Gryffindor did not have to suffer the consequences of their actions the way Slytherin did. When they lost important players the other teams just obligingly played worse so they could still win.

*Hermione blames Fred and George for Ron's lack of confidence. Another suggestion that perhaps the twins actually do have negative effects on people. You can see why Hermione would notice they never gave Ron confidence. Why, it’s all she and Harry can do to make up for it by treating him like they all know he's a loser, calling him stupid at every turn and taking vindictive pleasure in reminding him he sucks.

*Also, not surprising they seemed embarrassed by Ron's confidence when he finally realized it really didn't matter so why worry? It's weird when ordinary people aren't properly ashamed.

*I’m sorry, why is Harry suddenly acting like he and Cho have a relationship? He doesn’t want any more rows?

*Lee is terribly sad without the twins leaving. Does anybody right F/L/G? It seems like a natural. Lee could also do commentary.

*Oh no, Hagrid's here and he won't go away. He's come to bring Harry and Hermione someplace dangerous.

*Hagrid protected Firenze from the rest of the herd blah blah blah such a good heart instinct bullying, outnumbered blah blah blah.

*Hermione is shocked the centaurs attacked Firenze. Shocked, I tell you! Haven’t they read the chapter on non-violent retaliation and negotiation? Hermione is appalled at the idea of physical violence.

*'Don' worry abou' me, [if I get the sack]' Hagrid said hastily…’ I wasn't, actually, Hagrid. Go ahead and get sacked. Don' worry abou' me either.

*I love the way Hagrid gets Harry and Hermione to promise to help him without telling them what they're doing and then is all, 'Weep Weep. I knew ye’d say yes!' like they've actually agreed to what he wants. Laying on the guilt right away, Hagrid is.

*Because Grawp hurt Hagrid, he assumes he doesn’t know his own strength—um, why? Seems to me he’s using his own strength exactly as much as he wants to use it. It's a great metaphor for the way so much seems to be viewed here: Grawp is good, therefore he must secretly have good intentions even when he's bashing your head in.

*Hagrid, really, please don't tell us more of your family history and make us picture your human father mounted by a semi-retarded, lumpen female the size of a mountain again.

*Hagrid took Grawp away from the giants because they were BULLYING him. Because he was small! But I happen to know that Grawp was merely the beloved target of many a practical joke by those lovable giant twins, Schlump and Blop. They didn’t mean any harm in hurting him, they were just lightening the mood and didn’t know their own strength.

*Besides, Grawp actually deserves being bullied. He has a dreadful mother and a big mouth. Right before his last beating he was heard to tell two larger giants their mommas smelled.

*For all their bullying, the other giants did apparently draw the line at kidnapping and long-term bondage. It took a wizard to think of that!

*"Well, now—violent--tha's a bit harsh," says Hagrid about violent Grawp. Violent is only a word you use for people you don’t like.

*You know, I know the whole defense of Hagrid is that he just doesn’t get stuff because he’s so innocent, but I believe there's a point where good but ignorant intention becomes passively bad intention and Hagrid crossed it a long time ago. He’s not innocently naïve about what his creatures can do, he’s willfully indifferent so he can do what he wants.

*Harry is uncomfortably aware that he and Hermione have already been tricked into promising promised to do what Hagrid asked. I so can't understand this third grade kind of honor—you promised, so you have to do it. Um, no I really don't.

*Granted, I would never promise Hagrid anything unless I knew what it was, but I think it would be perfectly in order for Harry or Hermione to tell Hagrid they did not agree to this. But then, I would have signed up for the DA fully reserving the right to do what I thought was right there too. At least the Gryffindors let themselves be bound by their own sorts of stupid traps. That’s something.

*Note there's no hint how long one would take care of this giant, or what one would do when, not knowing his own strength, he got out of the ropes. Perhaps he'd go live with Aragog.

*Hagrid, don’t wake Grawp up. This chapter's already long enough as it is. ::sigh:: Hagrid calls Grawp a big buffoon. Luckily he's not a hippogriff, so this isn’t animal abuse and he doesn’t deserve to be hurt.

*Despite how ridiculous this is, we all know that Grawp will indeed wind up with his heart softened by the kindness shown to him by his captors. There's a word for this kind of heart-warming breakthrough. I believe it’s Stockholm Syndrome. It certainly doesn't remind me at all of that fountain at the MoM.

*ETA: Yup, Grawp will be showing up at the funeral dressed up in people clothes and a diaper like a trained chimp later on, being all affectionate to Hagrid for tying him up and teaching him to be civilized. Of course, he was supposed to have come from a civilization to begin with, but once he was in the big city he realized his own people were animals.

*Grawp reaches out for Hermione and later calls her Hermy…is this some sort of twisted female thing here? Like he’s King Kong and she's Fay Wray? Or he wants his mother? Between this and the twigs in Umbridge’s hair, this forest is turning really weird…

*Hermione's all whimpering and clinging to Harry here, but presumably this is one of those times when it's brave to do that.

*Grawp rips the pine out of the ground with a look of "detached pleasure," similar to the "detached satisfaction" Harry gets looking at the site of Malfoy’s pale, pointed face contorted with rage when his father has been arrested. And a bit like the "vindictive pleasure" Harry feels looking at Ron's ears going red after he taunts him about his Quidditch playing.

*Even Harry says flat out that Hagrid has "an immense capacity to delude himself that fanged monsters were loveably harmless." Though as I said, I don't think he bothers deluding himself. If he wants something to be true it just is.

*Firenze’s "defection" from the centaurs was rather pointless. If he’s peddling the secrets of his people in class, then the secrets of his people seem to be pretty much encapsulated by three words: Humans are stupid. Which Bane also seems to give away for free. If Bane's worried people have profited by his secrets, I don't think they have.

*Hagrid brushes off Hermione's concerns about going into the forest by telling her they don't hurt foals. Pretty consistent of Hagrid to say things are safe when they aren't if danger interferes with what he wants.

*I found out something to appreciate Grawp for—apparently it was because of him we were Hagrid-less as long as we were this year. Go Grawp!

*Even Hermione says Hagrid deserves to be sacked, though why she's crying and saying she didn't mean it is beyond me. Well, no it's not really. Hermione hates it when she can't make things work. This is probably one of the best examples of "leaving childhood behind" in the book, admitting that it's possible that an adult you like is unsuited for a job. For goodness sake, it's not like he won't have a job waiting for him from Dumbledore anyway. Just cut him loose already.

*ETA: Not that the universe will actually make them experience this. Hagrid will be settled happily in his place for years to come...for some reason. So we actually don't have to grow up as usual.

*Ron yells to Harry and Hermione that they won the match, like he knows that they weren't there and that's fine with him. Why would he think he had to tell them they won the match? Wouldn’t he, realistically, have run to find them right afterwards and been disappointed they weren't there? God knows if this had been Harry we would have gotten one of the famous mood swings here—happy to win, plummeting to sadness and resentment that his friends weren't there for him.

*Naturally I'm glad we didn’t actually have to watch the match, but it does feel like having this happen off-screen, besides being quicker, is practically an admittance of, "Oh come on, you know they won. They won because Ron had to get a happy ending in the book. But it's not like we really care if he finally manages to catch a ball or not and you know the closest we can come to making a Quidditch game "exciting" is to set one Seeker against each other. Just pretend it makes sense."

*My confession, which I hinted at earlier, is that when I read this book the first time I assumed Gryffindor lost the cup, but that Ron himself had proved himself so well they congratulated him. I know it’s silly given that Ron literally says they won the cup, but I somehow thought they hadn't, I guess because in my mind, according to the story logic, the Quidditch cup should have backed up the Sorting Hat and proved that the personal, petty fighting between Gryffindor and Slytherin kept them both from succeeding so that Hufflepuff won. Instead Gryffindor really needs nobody else. Nothing they do can really come back to hurt them because they are inherently so good that always wins through.



Designated Hero
Everybody’s so heroic in this chapter it’s hard to pick!

Exploitation Filmmakers’ Credo (n): "Come on, these dummies can’t remember what they saw five minutes ago!"
Psst! Hey Ron, remember why the twins were creating a distraction? Remember how you said it was Harry’s decision? You can already fob the blame off on him.

IITS
Isn’t Harry a little old to think he’s bound to do something dangerous because he promised Hagrid he’d do him a solid?

Don’t ask how the goalie won the Quidditch game for us. It was Ron. He’s been all sad. He got some confidence. And so the Quidditch gods smiled upon him.

Informed Attributes
Remember how Gryffindor was so bad it was embarassing? Well, in this chapter Ron informs us that in fact they are in the running for the Quidditch cup. And apparently it’s only Ron that needed to improve at all. Ron who was already on the team.

Final score: 4.75

Comments

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Is there some personal story going on between these two we don't know about, or is it just the way of things that naturally they hate each other?

Hermione is The Girl on Harry's team, and Pansy is The Girl on Draco's team, plus they're supposedly opposite "types" (since Pansy, like, giggles and wears pink frills, and Hermione's too cool for that), so they're automatically supposed to hate each other even before they ever do anything to each other or interact. I never quite bought their animosity.

I had the same reaction to McG's unscrewing of the chandelier--how does she know it won't kill some random innocent little kid? Maybe it drops straight from the ceiling immediately after being unscrewed instead of hanging there precariously?

Hermione's nagging is indeed ineffectual. She's like Molly: bossy and domineering about the trivial things, but usually caves on the important decisions. And "third-grade kind of honor" is a good description the sort of morals that the books heavy-handedly promote. Not just the whole "but you PROMISED!" nonsense, but also the weird obsession with bravery, i.e. "I'm not scared of you! You're not the boss of me!" People who do the right thing in the books aren't praised for doing the right thing, they're praised for being brave (Harry, Snape, Cedric, etc.), even if their decision was as much about compassion or loyalty or whatever as bravery.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

Or rather, even if they are praised for doing the right thing, it's the element of bravery in their decision that always gets singled out for special comment.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

how does she know it won't kill some random innocent little kid?

Remember there's only a 1 in 4 chance of it squishing any child with vague importance to McGonagall.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I never quite bought their animosity.

Especially since nothing Pansy says ever seems to get to Hermione.


People who do the right thing in the books aren't praised for doing the right thing, they're praised for being brave (Harry, Snape, Cedric, etc.), even if their decision was as much about compassion or loyalty or whatever as bravery.

Right, which leads to problems. The whole reason bravery is supposed to be the "best" virtue is that it gives you the courage to act on the other virtues. But when people say Snape is brave they're not saying it's because he changed his mind about what was right or whatever, it's that he's putting himself in physical danger with Voldemort--something Gryffindors would do for fun.

[elanor-x.livejournal.com]

*Harry suspects that although Umbridge and Filch can’t remove the swamp, teachers like McGonagall and Flitwick could, but choose not to do so.
I would think like Harry too, not because the author says so, but since I still refuse to believe 2 fifth years are more advanced at magic than McGonagall, the true future headmistress, and Flitwick, the dueling champion and Charms teacher.

*ETA: Well, at least I finally get that now thanks to JKR's interviews. Hermione's probably also pleased that Pansy didn't get to marry Draco.
Which JKR's interviews? Did she say something about the girls' relationship?

*Hermione is very "beady" in this scene. She has a beady eye and looks beadily at Harry. ETA: Clearly foreshadowing her beaded bag.
It all points to one thing: JKR likes the word "beady". :-)

*Even Harry says flat out that Hagrid has "an immense capacity to delude himself that fanged monsters were loveably harmless."
I love that Harry says that not after being almost eaten alive by giant spiders or after seeing the Screwts or Hippogriffs, but after seeing Hagrid's brother. It's especially ironic, considering the GoF Giant subplot with evil people discriminating against them. Isn't it a thing Malfoy would say?

If Bane's worried people have profited by his secrets, I don't think they have.
"Revealing the secrets" is probably only a ruse. The real reason is associating with humans at all, let alone serving them. Considering how the wizarding world must look to the centaurs (Umbridge's laws against other species and not only), I can't blame Bane too much.

[r-ganymede.livejournal.com]

Which JKR's interviews? Did she say something about the girls' relationship?

Not about Pansy and Hermione, about Pansy and Draco. During one of the interviews she was asked if Draco married Pansy and basically went OMG NO Pansy is too horrible even for Draco, who married some random character who never appeared in the books. Also, Pansy is based on a girl (possibly girls?) who was mean to her at school.

[j-lunatic.livejournal.com]

Don't forget the kerfuffle a couple of years ago when JKR decried the "tyranny" of thinness as an ideal for women. She was quoted saying something like "Let my daughters be Hermiones, not Pansys." (Never mind that most of the characters who she codes as fat tend to be either magically or morally weak.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Which JKR's interviews? Did she say something about the girls' relationship?

She was asked if Draco's wife was Pansy and went off on a rant about how much she hated Pansy, who was based on the girls who made fun of her in school. I think she said she "loathed that girl." Which I guess was why Hermione loathed her too, just without so much reason to loathe her since the few times Pansy insulted her she didn't seem very hurt.

It's especially ironic, considering the GoF Giant subplot with evil people discriminating against them. Isn't it a thing Malfoy would say?

Yes, it's that weird problem of the stereotypes always turning out to be real, undercutting the plea for tolerance to say the least! You couldn't have a giant teach a class if Grawp is any example.

[r-ganymede.livejournal.com]

The lack of consequences for this whole Montague thing really bugs me. It's just so weird that it was even brought up if it wasn't going to go anywhere. I'm not inherently bothered by them deciding to do nothing to help him, because they could get in trouble and would obviously be concerned about this. But the thing is, there are supposed to be consequences for this sort of thing in this sort of book. Deciding to ignore the plight of someone like Montague just isn't supposed to go well for the sort of hero Harry is supposed to be. It should have come back to bite him in the ass.

*My confession, which I hinted at earlier, is that when I read this book the first time I assumed Gryffindor lost the cup, but that Ron himself had proved himself so well they congratulated him. I know it’s silly given that Ron literally says they won the cup, but I somehow thought they hadn't, I guess because in my mind, according to the story logic, the Quidditch cup should have backed up the Sorting Hat and proved that the personal, petty fighting between Gryffindor and Slytherin kept them both from succeeding so that Hufflepuff won.

LOL, now I'm imagining a talking Quidditch Cup telling them that Hufflepuff is the winner, points or no points, and giving them all a lecture on good sportsmanship. Also, the Sorting Hat deserves a better universe than the one it got. It went against its very nature and decried its own existence in an attempt to help. It's probably so sad to see how everything came out.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Of course, in HBP I thought we were seeing the beginning of a turnaround--if they hadn't pushed Montague in the cabinet or if they'd cared about how he got out they would have known about the cabinet. But instead it was like the wand change thing--just clever for how the plot links things up. There was nothing wrong with what they did, it just sucks to be Montague--and those blasted Slytherins then went and made something evil out of it with the cabinet plot. (Later itself totally brushed aside when it turns out Draco could have just asked the room to become a tunnel going through the castle wards. D'oh!

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

*A troll is now guarding Harry’s broom.
Another screaming example of childish horror fiction like Harry's "ban for life OMG!!!" - both might have worked in PS, but in a book which purportedly crosses into YA territory it's just plain silly.

Odd things are happening to the Inquisitorial Squad
The IS's depiction reminds me quite a lot of how Nazis are shown in a lot of Hollywood films. Scary and at the same time completely incompetent and stupid when, logically, they only can be either.

It doesn't occur to him that he could already blame Harry, since this all happended because the twons were creating a distraction for Harry..."
To be fair, I believe they intended to do that anyway and just combined their own mayhem with beneficial sideeffects for Harry.

*ETA: It's really strange the way Hermione is a totaly nag, yet a totally ineffectual nag.
It's instances like these where I can't make up my mind whether she's just shown like some cowering female, sort of like Virgin Mary in traditional catholicism who tries to persuade God very humbly to have mercy on the undeserving masses or whether it's a sort of Jungian distinction with Hermione asthe Uber-Ich telling Harry what he should do, but him of the big Ego does not care (we know he has a strong Ego, otherwise he wouldn't be able to shake off Imperius) Either way, it's alarming.

Remember that's Voldemort making him do that sort of thing.
In fact, Harry and Ron are acting like children here, Ron sneaking on Harry and Harry being angry about it and punishing Ron for it. I got some Tom Sawyer - Sid - Aunt Polly vibes here. And anyway - Ron acted like a sneak here, so we know he deserved what he got for it!

Hermione is very "beady" here
I've wanted to know this for some time and my dictionary is no help - what are beady eyes supposed to be like? Please?

e first time I read the book I thought this whole Quidditch story was supposed to symbolize the pointlessness of House rivalry
Ah ha ha ha - you and me, too. I still don't see how it could have been intended as anything else, but... (sobs).

*nother suggestion that perhaps the twins actually do have negative effects on people.
The twins are a prime example of the idea that you love the sinner but not their sins - only, this is restricted to the right kind of people. If you just portrayed the way the twins act they should be Uber-Slytherins according to general characterization. But aren't.

Grawp will indeed wind up with his heart softened by the kindness shown to him by his captors. There's a word for this kind of heart-warming breakthrough. I believe it’s Stockholm Syndrome.
In fact, I think it's more a case of post-colonialistic fantasy on the author's part. Grawp as the lovable sub-human savage who can be trained like a dog and is really grateful for his white master to have brought him away from his own people to another country where, at last, he gets clothes because this is what's really bothered him all along.
Whereas the centaurs are more like classic Red Indians, proud and aloof and mysterious and on no accound cooperating with the white people, neither telling them about where the nuggets can be found - um what the stars are saying...

*…is this some sort of twisted female thing here? Like he’s King Kong and she's Fay Wray? Or he wants his mother? Between this and the twigs in Umbridge’s hair, this forest is turning really weird…
Word! And it goes to show how utterly hypocritical Rowling is with her talk about how girls shouldn't try to reform bad boys, because that's just what happens here: the good girl Hermione is able to "tame" the savage, animalistic man (in the movie even more pronounced and JKR didn't veto that deviation) and is spared by the other savages later on (albeit by the skin of her teeth) whereas we only can specualte about what happens to bad women who venture out into the wood at night - they deserve what they get - they asked for it! Interesting, that this was exaggerated as well in the movie, where Umbridge acted much more as a perpetrator against the centaurs than in the book. In fact, I still wonder why Bellatrix got to be taken down by Molly and not a herd of outraged Muggle men...

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>I've wanted to know this for some time and my dictionary is no help - what are beady eyes supposed to be like? Please?<

I think its when you go squinty-eyed so no one can see the whites.

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

"Beady eyes" are often associated with a bird's eye. At least, that's how I always picture it. The beady eye of a bird spotting a worm: fixed, ruthless, cold, greedy. It's not a positive descriptive word, though it's not necessarily full on bad.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Thank you!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

The IS's depiction reminds me quite a lot of how Nazis are shown in a lot of Hollywood films. Scary and at the same time completely incompetent and stupid when, logically, they only can be either.

Heh. Poor Goyle would have made a great Col. Klink.


I've wanted to know this for some time and my dictionary is no help - what are beady eyes supposed to be like? Please?

They're like bird eyes. Small and glittery. Like somebody looking suspicious or looking at you suspiciously. Saying somebody has 'beady eyes' sometimes means they seem untrustworthy, but looking at Harry beadily would I think mean she's looking at him like a bird, peering at him intensely and suspiciously.

In fact, I think it's more a case of post-colonialistic fantasy on the author's part. Grawp as the lovable sub-human savage who can be trained like a dog and is really grateful for his white master to have brought him away from his own people to another country where, at last, he gets clothes because this is what's really bothered him all along.
Whereas the centaurs are more like classic Red Indians, proud and aloof and mysterious and on no accound cooperating with the white people, neither telling them about where the nuggets can be found - um what the stars are saying...

That is so exactly right. Yipes.

[(Anonymous)]

A troll is now guarding Harry’s broom.

Another absurdity for the LOLs - why would anybody use a creature that can be defeated by a 1st-year kid for security? No doubt because JKR thought that "security troll" sounds so very cool and funny.

That's the glamour of helping Umbridge, guys. You get to be assistants to Filch.

Yes, helping a squib and trying to prevent things from dissolving in chaos is totally evil. They deserve all the antlers one cares to dole out.

What was the point of Firenze again? What was the point of Grawp? Honestly, I really like OoTP, I like the oft denigrated "darkness", but now that the series is ended I have to admit that it _is_ bloated. It contains so many things that went absolutely nowhere and even more things that received a very pitiful pay-off. Couldn't we have been treated to a bit of the Order resistance action in OoTP and HBP, so that we could respect the members - past and present, more? And so that we actually would get an impression of there being a dangerous struggle afoot?
The way the Order crumbled in DH after playing taxi for Harry one more time made me doubt any heroism or even usefulness inherent in the membership. It just seems like a cover for adventure/light crime now. Something to add a bit of color to an otherwise drab existence. What could they have been doing before there was a Harry to (rather ineffectually) protect and help?

Yes, Montague story is downright chilling, now that it is clear that there weren't supposed to be any consequences. The twins were totally in the right! Taking points and competing with Gryffindor at Quidditch merits a near-death experience in Potterverse. Even Montague himself didn't speak up against the twins, after all. They may have been gone from school, but surely something like that should have merited at least a threat of Azkaban? At least, we didn't see the guy as a DE, so no retroactive justification for their actions.

I guess because in my mind, according to the story logic, the Quidditch cup should have backed up the Sorting Hat and proved that the personal, petty fighting between Gryffindor and Slytherin kept them both from succeeding so that Hufflepuff won.

I knew that it wouldn't happen in OoTP, even as I was reading it, since Harry and Co. were due a lolly for all the terrible, terrible, Umbridge persecution and of course there was the widely touted character death, too. But I was foolish enough to be fairly sure that it would happen in HBP, what with Harry generally being on the top of the world throughout that book and becoming dangerously reckless yet again :(.

Violaswamp:

People who do the right thing in the books aren't praised for doing the right thing, they're praised for being brave (Harry, Snape, Cedric, etc.), even if their decision was as much about compassion or loyalty or whatever as bravery.

However, notice how if somebody other than Neville or Hermione does it, standing up to Harry or Gryffindors in general is totally not brave, but a low, spiteful thing to do.

One of my favorite authors - perhaps _the_ favorite wrote that the greatest human vice is cowardice and I agree with him. But it doesn't follow that bravery is the greatest virtue. In fact, while cowardice can blight a person because it prevents other virtues from manifesting, bravery can equally enhance virtues _and_ vices. And what passes for bravery in HP is often not what I'd call true courage, but physical recklessness, thoughtlessness and willingness to hurt other people.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

So much word to all of this.

OotP is still my favourite book - provided I ignore the following crap. There was a theory based on the chess game in PS, where Harry's way to defeat the White King was four squares to the right and then three to the left. These were interpreted as the books, where in PS to GoF, Harry largely acts as a good/ right person, whereas in OotP, he starts moving towards the left/ wrong direction. I welcomed that, because I thought it sugarcoating to have an always magically sqeaky clean hero - he HAD to make moral mistakes in order to grow up and learn from them. As much as I detested HBP, it seemed to back this theory up, because whereas in OotP, I could sort of understand Harry's behaviour (permanent headaches, multiple personality disorder, puberty and a regime of Umbridge and Snape and Dumbledore ARE testing), he was downright nasty in HBP with no excuse whatever. But we all know how wrong this theory was...

Very good observation concerning bravery and cowardice!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Another absurdity for the LOLs - why would anybody use a creature that can be defeated by a 1st-year kid for security?

Or alternatively, why use something that was supposed to be so dangerous everyone ran screaming when one was in the school (before the first years knocked it out)?

What was the point of Firenze again? What was the point of Grawp? Honestly, I really like OoTP, I like the oft denigrated "darkness", but now that the series is ended I have to admit that it _is_ bloated. It contains so many things that went absolutely nowhere and even more things that received a very pitiful pay-off.

In the end it was a bad idea to go for any kinds of world-building because there was never a world there. It's like the international cooperation in GoF. It makes it seem like it's going to be a world war, but it's really just a fight between one group of parents and another and their kids and friends. GoF throws in French wizards and Eastern European Wizards who have little to do, this book starts bringing up all these different groups to help fight. Nobody does and it doesn't matter. Even the Order, who also seems like they're supposed to be an actual resistance movement, is just in charge of waiting for Harry and his friends to do everything.

At least, we didn't see the guy as a DE, so no retroactive justification for their actions.

I would have been surprised by no DE!Montague if I didn't think JKR had just forgotten about him like she did Marietta.

One of my favorite authors - perhaps _the_ favorite wrote that the greatest human vice is cowardice and I agree with him. But it doesn't follow that bravery is the greatest virtue. In fact, while cowardice can blight a person because it prevents other virtues from manifesting, bravery can equally enhance virtues _and_ vices. And what passes for bravery in HP is often not what I'd call true courage, but physical recklessness, thoughtlessness and willingness to hurt other people.

Yes, it's never that the courage helped them act on the other virtues. Snape wasn't brave for admitting he was wrong and trying to do something to rectify it, he was brave because he became a super spy. And word on only Hermone and Neville being brave for standing up to Gryffindors. I remember it always used to confuse me how everyone talked about Malfoy being cowardly because he only called out Harry when he was backed up by Crabbe and Goyle, when he's often outnumbered himself. There's nothing virtuous in Malfoy taunting the Trio, but given what he knows usually happens to him when he does, it does require a certain recklessness.

[moonspinner.livejournal.com]

Handing over the broom in PoA was her best moment. Did she get so traumatized by the fall-out from that she never did it again?.


Word. But then again, PoA was the peak of the series so I'm not surprised that that was the book that showed the characters at their best.


I guess because in my mind, according to the story logic, the Quidditch cup should have backed up the Sorting Hat and proved that the personal, petty fighting between Gryffindor and Slytherin kept them both from succeeding so that Hufflepuff won. Instead Gryffindor really needs nobody else. Nothing they do can really come back to hurt them because they are inherently so good that always wins through.


In the hands of a less morally challenged author perhaps....

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

What amazes me about this series on a whole is how completely repulsive the "heroes" are. This is the book where I began to really dislike Hermione, but I also thought JKR was setting her up for a turn around. Ditto Harry. This chapter actually gave me optimism because it looked to me like Ron was experiencing some growth (succeeding at something all by himself and through his own hard work).

Of course, now that it's all said and done, and the Trio's ugly behavior remains a defining aspect of them -- three children who could give a crap about an injured schoolmate, because he's not one of their friends -- rather than something they grew beyond, they've become something even worse.

And this series became something worse. I remember at one point saying that JKR had to redeem Slytherin, had to have a reconciliation, because otherwise her story would be too ugly. And I couldn't imagine a children's book author in this day and age writing with such an ugly world-view. Of course the Trio were supposed to look back on their lack of care for Montague and cringe. They're the good guys!

Heh.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

But isn't this story of Montague consistent with what we've seen about Hogwarts?

Snape is nearly killed by the Marauders. Both sides admit this conclusion. The only thing we know about the outcome of that was that Snape was made to keep quiet. The fact that shortly afterward, the Marauders felt free to publically target Snape shows that the staff of Hogwarts could not give a damn what happened to a poor, half-blood Slytherin.

Fred and George Weasley shut a fellow student up in a cabinet and leave him there to die. When he comes out, the damage is bad enough that no one knows if it will be permanent. They are not punished for that, but instead are targeted for creating general mischief. When Montague's parents are glimsped striding up to the school, this is treated as though it were a rare, embarassing moment for Umbridge (i.e., a plus for our side!)

Marietta's scarred face--obviously caused by another student--prompts no investigation or punishment by the authorities, including Umbridge. (Even though Cho is well aware who caused it and could have tattled about it.)

Katie Bell is nearly killed by a cursed necklace. It could easily be investigated (Harry mentions seeing the necklace at B&B's, which means any auror could go ask to see the records on who bought it.) Moreover, both Snape and Dumbledore know that Draco is probably behind it. They do nothing, and presumably, Katie's parents don't ask that anything be done.

Ron is nearly killed by Draco's poisoning scheme. Molly and Arthur show up, but presumably don't ask that any investigation take place (or, more likely, Dumbledore assures them that he's on top of it).

Harry almost kills Draco in a fight. Narcissa not only doesn't show up, only Snape and McGonagall seem to find that incident worthy of note. Dumbledore never mentions it, and Snape ends up looking like a bastard for punishing Harry.

The last time it seemed to matter if the students at Hogwarts were endangered was when Lucius Malfoy was on the Board of Governors. Once he was forced off, students were free to duel, fight dragons, get kidnapped by mermen, steal hippogriffs, and poison each other.

Bah. It's impossible to even pin JKR down her educational philosophy, because it's really based on What Kids Like. Dumbledore represents a step forward from the Bad Old Ways (racism, specism, and corporal punishment as Filch mourns the horsewhip and shackles). Yet, he is a bulwark against the Bad One Ways of parental interest and involvement in their kids' welfare, or the government's interest in educational standards.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

the Trio's ugly behavior remains a defining aspect of them -- three children who could give a crap about an injured schoolmate, because he's not one of their friends
Ah, but I hope you realize this is totally different from 12-year old Draco who said he hoped it was Granger to be petrified next?

[sunlit-music.livejournal.com]

Also, Pansy is based on a girl (possibly girls?) who was mean to her at school.

I never got why JKR expected us to think Pansy was so horrible. Hermione seems a lot worse than Pansy, as she actually scars Marietta's face. I wonder why Ginny doesn't remind JKR of the girls who were mean to her at school?

Snape ends up looking like a bastard for punishing Harry.

Word. I hated how Snape was portrayed as being mean for punishing Harry when Harry cast sectusempra. His punishment of Harry was actually far too lenient, in my opinion.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

I never got why JKR expected us to think Pansy was so horrible. Hermione seems a lot worse than Pansy, as she actually scars Marietta's face. I wonder why Ginny doesn't remind JKR of the girls who were mean to her at school?
A tongue in cheek answer to that would be: JKR IS Hermione (as she said herself) and she would have wanted to be like Ginny - which is why we read sometimes about Pansy dissing Hermione (for which she is punished by not getting her man in the end), but never Ginny - who is too pretty for Pansy to say anything against her. In HBP, we are treated to Pansy's badly concealed anxiety about Ginny being out of her league in the looks department, meaning the only thing that really counts...

[savagedamsel10.livejournal.com]

*ETA: It's really strange the way Hermione is a totaly nag, yet a totally ineffectual nag. For all her yammering about ridiculous things (like not wanting to use the directions that actually work for Potions in HBP) she usually backs down about stuff where she should stand her ground. Handing over the broom in PoA was her best moment. Did she get so traumatized by the fall-out from that she never did it again?.
It makes the parallel between her and Molly even sharper, that's all. I once read that even though people think Molly's this great strong matriarch because she doesn't let Arthur run the whole show, the fact was that When It Really Comes Right Down To It on certain issues, it's Arthur who gets the final say and makes the final rules, (at a time when Molly should have put forth her opinion), thus making her rather ineffectual.
And yes, I wouldn't be surprised if the whole Firebolt experience scared Hermione off.

*Despite how ridiculous this is, we all know that Grawp will indeed wind up with his heart softened by the kindness shown to him by his captors. There's a word for this kind of heart-warming breakthrough. I believe it’s Stockholm Syndrome. It certainly doesn't remind me at all of that fountain at the MoM.
Ugh, I guess it's because the topic has been floating around in some of the LJ communities I go to but this whole tying Grawp down/Stockholm Syndrome thing totally makes me think of Attachment Therapy (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attachment_Therapy). Of course, I am taking things a bit too far but really, looking back at this chapter is really cringeworthy.

*ETA: Yup, Grawp will be showing up at the funeral dressed up in people clothes and a diaper like a trained chimp later on, being all affectionate to Hagrid for tying him up and teaching him to be civilized. Of course, he was supposed to have come from a civilization to begin with, but once he was in the big city he realized his own people were animals.
Yet again, another cringeworthy moment. It's good to know that I'm not the only one who got that thought about trained chimps.