HBP Chapter Four

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

*Despite the fact that he’d spent every waking moment of the past few days waiting for DD, Harry is awkward with him. It’s not like this is strange for Harry. He spent the entire last book pining for people he then didn’t care to spend time with.

*ETA: At the time I first read that I probably thought Harry's pining was just about wanting to get away from the Dursleys, but is this supposed to be foreshadowing for Harry's great need for Dumbledore's love idee fixe in the next book?

*Dumbledore gives Harry permission to use his wand if he’s attacked. Yeah, see, the thing is Harry already assumed he had that permission by common sense last year and he got dragged into court—a court who didn’t seem to think you were the boss of it, Big D. The way the laws change in this world you can’t blame Harry for being suspicious.

*DD says Harry need not worry about an attack because he is with Dumbledore. What a coincidence, because later Dumbledore’s going to tell Harry he’s not worried because…ohhhhh, maybe it’s not a coincidence. Parallelism. I’ll make a note.

*ETA: Though now the line's more ironic than anything. Being with Dumbledore is no reason for anyone to feel safe. In Harry's case he's only safe because Dumbledore for some reason doesn't want him to die yet.

*Harry and DD need to go to Slughorn’s. Will they take the Floo, a Portkey, a broom, Thestral, the Knight Bus? Which of the elaborate modes of transportation we’ve had described to us will they choose? Oh, whatever. It it’s too much trouble and besides this is the book where Harry has to learn Apparition. Just hold on to my arm bibbity bobbity boo we’re there. It’s magic.

*ETA: From black_dog in the last readthrough: "Note that after Harry's encounter with the birth-canal-mysteries of Apparition, his first comment is "I prefer broomsticks." Subtext? You decide!"

*Dumbledore asks Harry if his scar has been hurting. Harry says no, and he’s been wondering about it. Yeah, nice try, Harry. Like you ever wonder about this sort of thing.

*Dumbledore is not surprised Harry’s scar isn’t hurting because hurting scars are SO books 1-5. ETA: And 7. I forget, is there some reason that Voldemort stops using Occlumency in that book and starts broadcasting his whereabouts to Harry periodically? I mean, non-meta reasons?

*Dumbledore has lost track of how many times he’s announced they need a new DADA teacher over recent years. Um, that would be one time for each year because of the curse thingie. Apparently DD is even worse at Maths than JKR.

*On their way to see Slughorn, Dumbledore sees fit to explain how rude it is to Apparate to someone’s front door. For those taking notes, it’s rude to Apparate to a Wizard’s house, or to not offer a Wizard the right to refuse you entry, and for a Muggle to not take drinks from a stranger Wizard. It’s not rude to crash into the middle of a Muggle’s living room through their fireplace unannounced, or secretly hook them up to a public transportation network, or invite yourself in after midnight, or bop them in the head with glasses of mead. What must it be for a poor Muggleborn having to learn all these Wizard rules of manners? It must be like being a peasant in the court of the Sun King.

*Harry wonders why Dumbledore doesn’t think it’s rude to call on his old colleague so late. Funny that Harry doesn't assume that Slughorn is an asshole and so deserves a late-night visit like the Dursleys.

*Dumbledore promises the story of how he killed his hand is thrilling and he’ll tell it later. Is he supposed to have told it at some point during the book? Because either he never did tell it, or it was not thrilling.

*ETA: Well, we know that now, and it's anything but thrilling. Dumbledore just leaves it out here because the long, involved story of how Dumbledore's hobby is researching these three stupid relics from a fairy tale will be masquerading as the plot of the next book and we couldn't fit any references to it into this book. Not only would it spoil the amazing surprise, but we've got so much plot in this book already! There's not a moment to spare on how to kill Voldemort.

*Dumbledore pooh-poohs the Ministery’s rules about asking people personal questions about their favorite jam to prove they’re not a Death Eater, because a DE would have researched what kind of jam you liked. I suspect that having been fooled for an entire year by a Death Eater pretending to be his old friend while up to a nefarious plot it’s best for Dumbledore to stress how impossible it would have been to figure this out. Dammit man, he knew my favorite jam! I was helpless!

*Percy Weasley, however, is an evil moron whose ambition blinded him to the obvious. Any good assistant could have told that memo came from Possessed!Fudge!

*Voldemort apparently killed enough people in the last war to make an army. Just go with it.

*By the time they get to the front door, Dumbledore has Harry completely suckered. Now he’s feeling badly about demanding information about his own life a few weeks ago and just lapping up Dumbledore’s letting him ask questions and taking him on Secret Missions. The old man plays this kid like a fiddle. ETA: In a totally non-sexual way, of course.

*ETA: Once Harry starts wondering if Dumbledore was evil he won't do anything interesting, like wonder if the appeal of the guy was something bad. It's not that I'm surprised, since nobody ever re-thought their own admiration of Barty Crouch (obviously we only liked the parts of him that were imitating the good guy!), but I will never stop being amazed at the ban on self-reflection or long, hard looks in the mirror in the series.

*ETA: This goes along with how whenever someone is wondering about someone else's true character they always worry about the state of the person's soul at birth that they can't see, rather than thinking about their actions.

*Slughorn’s house looks like it’s been ransacked. Then Dumbledore pokes an overstuffed armchair and it’s this enormously fat man who gets up rubbing his belly. So Slughorn is enormously fat, but not quite as fat as 14-year-old Dudley, since I believe killer whales are bigger than armchairs, even overstuffed ones.

*ETA: Slughorn's massive size luckily makes him too ridiculous to be truly villainous. Behold, the "good" Slytherin!

*Dumbledore says he figured out the house hadn’t really been ransacked because the Dark Mark wasn’t flying above the house. Damn. I don’t know if I can follow all this wizard espionage. Between the jam test, the S.I.R.I.U.S. Code and the Big Dark Mark that says DEATH EATERS WUZ HERE George Smiley wouldn’t know who to trust!

*Slughorn stops rubbing his belly long enough to clap a pudgy hand to his vast forehead. He’s got fat hands and a fat head, is what I’m saying.

*He says he didn’t hear the alarm because he was taking a bath. Since he himself is telling us about the bath, he neglects to dwell on how the sides of his belly spilled over the sides, or his middle rose up from the water like a fish-bellied island, but I’ll assume that’s what Harry would have seen had he been there. If he hadn’t gone blind.

*The tall, thin wizard (that’s Dumbledore) and the short round one (that’s Slughorn, though frankly he doesn’t sound so much short and round as mountainous) wave their wands and everything goes back into place. Isn’t it funny the way wizards can cure just about anything with magic, but they can’t just waive their wands or take a Potion and slim down? I guess only the unhealthy anorexic wizards would do that. And anyway these are male wizards, who are too self-confident to be shallow about looks. They can't cure acne either. (Suddenly I'm thinking of Margaret White in Carrie: "Pimples are the author's Lord's way of chastizing you.")

*Seems a bit of a waste to use dragon’s blood on the walls. Corn syrup and food coloring would probably do. Although perhaps Slughorn would find it hard to stop himself from eating that.

*Slughorn agrees to a middle-of-the-night drink with Dumbledore ungraciously. But he accepts the drink so Dumbledore refrains from breaking the bottle over his head or something. Manners must be enforced somehow.

*So Slughorn comes up to Dumbledore’s chin, but when he sits on a sofa his legs don’t reach the floor. Oh dear, maths, indeed!

*Slughorn lists his current ailments and chalks them up to old age rather than carrying around what appears to be about 500 extra pounds on a small frame.

*Harry takes time to look around the house and judge Slughorn for having comfortable furniture, books and candy (I think my own apartment would pass muster—the lack of chairs might just make up for the books and candy).

*His house looks like it belongs to a fussy old lady. Ooh, better step up, Slughorn. Fat fussy old ladies don’t get much respect in this universe!

*ETA: And Harry didn't get this guy was a Slytherin? When he deigns to live in a girlie house?

*Btw, if you’re worried that your own home décor is cowardly, the proper room should be messy with remnants of underwear, old apple cores, pet pellets and clothes under the bed. Oh, and if you want to sleep in a four poster velvet curtained red and gold mahogany bed at the top of a big castle that’s fine too, as long as you sleep in a Spartan position.

*ETA: Also, real men on the run prefer to live in elaborate tents and forget the food so they can live on berries and twigs.

*Okay, I admit defeat. What are gooseberry eyes? Prominent? Apparently Kerry Blue terriers often have them, and yet even after growing up with one as a pet, I have no clue. ETA: I remember looking this one up. Yay internet!

*The Death Eaters are going to come courting Slughorn? Yeah, he seems about their level of scariness.

*Apparently it’s also not rude for a Wizard to move into someone’s house while they’re gone. I’m guessing this is only if the someone is a Muggle.

*I’m honestly confused at this information, in terms of whether I’m supposed to hold Slughorn’s comfy house against him or be relieved that the “old lady” vibe belongs to someone else so his manhood is safe. I think it’s the former, since he seems to suggest more than one person lives in the house usually, and the chocolates and the overstuffedness of it all seems to be all about Slughorn. Plus he’s got all his own pictures up. So yeah, this is his own furniture. The Muggles may have had little more than a Yoga mat and Pilates reformer for all we know.

*Thankfully Slughorn doesn’t pass up a chance to remind us that burglar alarms are “absurd” compared to Sneakascopes. Because Sneakascopes have been so much help to everyone in the previous five books.

*I’m sorry, why is Slugorn calling Hogwarts “pestilential?”

*I do not have to ask why Harry is chuckling over Umbridge’s being trampled by centaurs. Good times.

*Slughorn isn’t sure what to do when left alone with Harry, so in the uncomfortable silence, let’s just observe his fat arse. Imagine how long it takes to warm that thing in the fire. Man this guy is fat.

*Not that there’s disproportionate attention paid to his size. Sure we’re reminded of Ron’s red hair maybe once every two books and Slughorn’s girth twelve times in one chapter, but that’s because Ron’s red hair isn’t an extension of his inner character, as is Slughorn’s size.

*Oh, Slughorn was Head of Slytherin. That explains that suspicious less-than-manly quality about him. But he’s an okay Slytherin, because he asks Harry not to “hold it against him.” Please let this guy not be Head of Slytherin next year. He’s probably only in that house because he can’t climb the stairs to the Tower and worship the various Gryffindors up close. (And by worship I could mean molest.)

*ETA: Okay, so he was the Head of House. But note that he was carefully separated from the students of the house. In the end he was given his choice to be a Gryffindor-but-not-as-good and went with that.

*ETA: Seriously, the total self-absorbtion pov is really hilarious in this series. The way the villains are always admitting that the heroes are awesome is one thing, but marking the trustworthy Slytherin by having him casually confirm Harry's own bad opinion of his own house? Priceless. That pov is pretty standard throughout the books, though. You can always tell the good, worthy members of the other group by the way they wish they were not in that group.

*Go Regulus.

*Slughorn hastily explains he’s not prejudiced to Harry. Please, Slug. We get it. Your slobbering over Lily and Harry coupled with the “thought she was a Pureblood” is far more disturbing and unhealthy than any of Malfoy’s Mudblood comments. I’m sure when you pick up prostitutes you specifically ask for the new pretty Muggleborn boys.

*ETA: Clearly the real reason Voldemort killed Lily was because her glittery goodness would have converted all the DEs from their racist ways single-handedly.

*And then we get to the real heart of Slughorn—well, you knew he had to be greedy and devouring at heart—his childish collection of ex-students.

*The smile slid from Slughorn’s face as quickly as the blood from his walls. Ew. Bad metaphor.

*Harry finds it hard to sympathize with Slughorn because hey, Sirius was willing to live off of rats to be close to Harry! Where’s the Fat Man’s respect? Hello? Chosen One talking to you!

*To be fair, he finds it hard to sympathize with just about anybody except for a few minutes at a time when they exactly mirror his own tragedies.

*Harry assures Slughorn that the only teachers who die are those who deserve it. He cleverly does not mention how he’s been judging Slughorn since he walked into his house and found him deserving…

*Dumbledore cheerfully tells us he’s been reading Muggle magazines all this time and that he loves knitting patterns. He’s lying of course. Really he was listening at the door for Slughorn to come around. I know that because had Dumbledore really been looking at Muggle magazines, he’d have drawn attention to how inferior but cute they are compared to Wizard magazines. See, I can make deductions too, Dumbledore!

*Of course, this makes the house decorations confusing, since the living room seems to be all about Slughorn yet the bathroom still holds the magazines of the Muggles who live there. Who btw, have had Slughorn using their bathtub. It’s probably good they don’t know that.

*Having been suckered by Harry into wanting to come to Hogwarts, Slughorn has nothing to do but twiddle his FAT thumbs and fidget in true silent movie comic fat-guy form as Dumbledore pretends to give him what he wants and leave. I’m surprised he doesn’t say, “Homina, homina, homina” as he does it.

*Slughorn hurries to the doorway of the room he’s in, which leaves him breathless. Hey, you try moving 500 pounds of girlie manflesh on Billy Barty’s legs and see how out of breath you are!

*ETA: How did this guy ever lead that pack of NOT SLYTHERINS back into Hogwarts for the final battle, I wonder? JKR really missed an opportunity to get him stuck in the door so none of the reinforcements could get in. It would have been hilarious.

*They’ll see Slughorn on the first of September. Same day of the week it was last year.

*Alone with Harry, Dumbledore lays it on thick again, flattering him on how Harry tricked Slughorn and judged his character so well. Well, it sounds better than, “Well done, Harry. You’re always so self-centered and judgmental I knew you’d be so with Slughorn after knowing him for five minutes!”

*ETA: Again from black_dog because I always remembered this line about this chapter: "Honestly? On the re-read, I wondered exactly what Harry did to change Slughorn's mind about coming to Hogwarts. He mostly just stood there, acting sullen and restless. But maybe that hit Slughorns's bulletproof kink for trade."

*Harry explains to Dumbledore that Slughorn was pleasant enough, but seemed to have a soft, rotting corrupted moral center. He was vain and prejudiced in a different way than the Gryffindors are vain and prejudiced. Iow, well, he’s okay but don’t forget he’s a Slytherin.

*ETA: Seriously, he's got a soft, rotting, corrupted moral center because he is Slytherin. They have corrupted souls. The ones who are kind of good are good for baser reasons. Including Slughorn.

*Dumbledore explains Slughorn prefers the back seat to power. More room to spread out. Get it? Spread out? Because he’s wider than he is tall! Ha! Dumbledore slays me!

*Harry correctly compares Slughorn to a big spider eating juicy flies. It’s a good thing Harry lives in a cartoon world where people look like their subtext.

*Dumbledore tells Harry this not to turn him against Slughorn, but to give Harry background on his test victim. If Harry’s going to get used to manipulation, an overgrown baby with a hard-on for fame who couldn’t manipulate his way out of a wet paper bag is a great place to start. It will make Harry feel confident without actually being impressive.

*Harry arrives at the Burrow longing for Ron and, oddly, praising Mrs. Weasley’s cooking. Perhaps they should have brought Molly to Slughorn. She could have tempted him to Hogwarts with stew.

*The Weasleys keep their broomsticks in an outhouse. By which I guess we mean just an outbuilding on a farm and not a privvy, but with the Weasleys one can’t be sure. It may be part of their rustic charm to go outside.

*ETA: Though you'd think if they regularly pissed outdoors Ron would have dealt better with the tent.

*Dumbledore opens the creaking door—didn’t Hermione say something about this outhouse being locked so super sassy Ginny had to break in to steal a broom?

*Before leaving Harry, Dumbledore figures he might as well lay it on thick with the compliments again. He’s holding up so well, Sirius would be proud, you would have had a great relationship, blah blah blah," he says celibately. Dumbledore understands everything.

*But in case you were worried we were going to have to try to watch Harry mourn someone he didn’t really know well, he announces that at some point in the recent past he decided to just go ahead and live life to the fullest. Go Harry! Way to sacrifice for the plot, man!

*ETA: Sadly, the plot is a fickle mistress. Harry will have to spend the next book obsessing over his dead headmaster. Dumbledore's final triumph: He totally replaces Sirius in Harry's heart. In a totally non-sexual way.

*Harry even adds some of the standard Gryffindor stuff about taking out Death Eaters. Oh Dumbledore, your work here is done. And private lessons? For Harry? Oh my!!! Pat him on the back approvingly again, Sir, please?

*The broom shed is smelly, for some reason. Could I have been wrong about the outhouse thing? Or are they doing even more disturbing things in there?

*Dumbledore urges Harry to go inside so as not to deprive Molly of the chance to deplore how thin he is. Again, perhaps they should have brought Molly to see Slughorn. Show her the dangers of too much food.

*ETA: Then Dumbledore goes away to not have any gay sex at all.

*Hi girls. I’m Sistermagpie. I hope you’re enjoying the recap of HBP. Jokes are well and good between friends, but I want to talk about something serious. Just between us girls. I’m talking about calling normal people fat. All over the world there are girls with cute bodies—not icky skinny ones that are too bony—but correct-sized bodies, and they’re being teased by being called fat. I’ve tried to provide you with some examples here of what fat is really like in the hopes that in my small way I can help end the pain of unfair fat accusation. Thanks.





IITS
So Harry just isn’t angry at Dumbledore any more and has decided to move on after Sirius’ death? Okay, I guess it’s in the script.

Idiot World
But how could he not have been my real daughter? He passed the Jam test! And how am I supposed to know if somebody’s death is connected to Voldemort if he doesn’t put the Dark Mark thingie up?

Informed Attributes
Get used to this one because Slughorn will be informing us of Lily’s never-ending attributes throughout the book.

Also, Dumbledore praising Harry over being a good judge of character? Really?

Misdirected Answering
Dragon’s blood, huh? Fascinating. And no Muggle neighbors have noticed someone living in the house of the family that’s on vacation?

Offscreen Teleportation
Sadly, Slughorn didn’t get this so he must walk from one end of the room to the other on foot.

Spring-Loaded Cat
Nor can his amazing transformation from an armchair count for a spring-loaded cat, because this guy doesn’t spring anywhere.

Final score: 5

Comments

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

I agree, I don't understand how it was possible from the description - they should have just used a portkey.

That said, if Hogwarts could have anti- apparition wards, why not the Potters' cottage? Perhaps the only way to prevent unwanted types apparating *in*, means that you sacrifice the ability to apparate *out*? It worked that way at Hogwarts, and it would make sense bearing in mind that they were in hiding. So why did JKR not make that clear, in order to protect her story? (I'm beginning to sound like a broken record here.)

Plus why didn't James have his wand with him? OK he was a good wizard, but this is Voldemort here. If Dumbledore hadn't drunk the crazy water from the cave (and wasn't slowly dying), he could have squashed Draco like a bug. James could have put up a brave fight, but still been defeated effortlessly, 'cos you know 'The most dangerous dark wizard of all time' and all that. Her story would have been the same, but James wouldn't look like a damn fool idiot.

Lily would be trapped upstairs, deperately trying to quickly undo the wards stopping her from getting out of the window/flooing out of the chimney, but Voldemort breaks in, points his wand at the baby, and she immediately drops her wand/jumps through hoops to protect him. I'd buy that. Not the pants she fed us.

The best option would be to not include this version of the Potters' death AT ALL. It was far more chilling when we just had a vague idea. Describing the events in detail opened them up to scrutiny - bad idea. Plus it added nothing to the 'plot' AT ALL.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

I agree, I don't understand how it was possible from the description - they should have just used a portkey.
YES! I don't understand how that could have escaped anyone in charge of looking over these books before they were printed: it is physically impossible to spin around your own axis while someone else holds onto you who also has to spin aroung his axis - aaagh!


Plus why didn't James have his wand with him?
The bets are up between her not wanting to show the perfect parents of her hero being bested in a fair duel by anyone and the "sweet innocent lambs, being slaughtered by heartless cruelty and the Gestapo arriving before dawn" touch.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

...it is physically impossible to spin around your own axis while someone else holds onto you who also has to spin aroung his axis - aaagh!

I thought they both had to spin around the Apparator's central axis to be considered as part of the Apparator's person. Which would allow a mother to Apparate with her infant in her arms. So still a fail.

...not wanting to show the perfect parents of her hero being bested in a fair duel by anyone...

Which explains why she never showed them in a position to have a fair duel with anyone. Pensive!James was husking Sev two to one.

..."sweet innocent lambs, being slaughtered by heartless cruelty and the Gestapo arriving before dawn"...

Which would have worked if they had been forcibly disarmed by some law or other reason, but they weren't. Even springing out of bed in the crack'o'midnight they should have immediately reached for their wands. Now, if James had been the owner of the Elder Wand and Dumbledore borrowed it for some reason...

But that wouldn't fly either since what wizard in his right mind, especially when he and his family are in danger, would lend his wand to anyone?

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

JKR strikes again in her determined quest to make all her characters look like fools. I don't mean when she deliberately makes them act badly to drive the 'plot' or make Harry look better (always a waste of time).

I mean when she just messes it all up. How on EARTH could James not having his wand when they're being hunted by such an uber villain make him look anything but a complete idiot? Who can sympathise with such a casual attitude to his family's safety? It should have been next to him in the bath/on the loo, under his pillow as he slept, by his plate as he ate etc.

A brave fight by James would have to end in easy defeat if Voldemort is the all-powerful Wizard she built him up to be (worked better before he had a body) There'd be no shame in it at all.

In her determination to make us think certain things about the character, she finished him off completely. See also Harry Potter, Ron Weasley, Hermione Granger, Remus Lupin, Albus Dumbles, Severus Snape, Rubeus Hagrid, Any Weasleys - and so on. I don't include Ginny, as she never had a viable character before Book 5. JKR just ballsed her up from scratch.

After 4 books with believable, flawed but pleasant characters, JKR started to write less and less credible all-perfect or suddenly silly people - or at least tried to. By trying to build them up and (unsuccessfully) trying to control what we thought, JKR finally suceeded in turning Harry Potter into something we always said it wasn't. Just a children's story.

All apologies to Roald Dahl, Lewis Caroll, Noel Stratfeild and even Enid Blyton. Beatrix Potter's world was more sophisticated than Harry Potter's ended up as.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

After 4 books with believable, flawed but pleasant characters, JKR started to write less and less credible all-perfect or suddenly silly people - or at least tried to. By trying to build them up and (unsuccessfully) trying to control what we thought, JKR finally suceeded in turning Harry Potter into something we always said it wasn't. Just a children's story.

I've been thinking about this. After the three year summer, after the deliberate OOC-ness in OotP, the characters never quite reverted to what they had been before. They also stopped learning many new or advanced spells, which fandom thought they should do. Makes sense - when a ten year old takes history, it's on one level but when a sixteen year old takes the same history it's on a completely different, more in-depth level. Should have been the same for Charms, Transfiguration, Potions, etc. The on-going DADA problem would have looked even more baldly horrible with strides made in other classes. Could the major re-do she did over those three years have anything to do with reining the story back onto a child's level?

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

It's a possibility. There is no question but that her publishers were determined to market the things as children's books, and in every public appearance the camera was solidly trained on the under-12 set. The older fans were given short shrift, and indeed when noticed at all were generally made to sound like dips, the way media fans always are portrayed.

Actually the inherently 2-faced stance of loving the kiddy fans while disdaining the adult ones would have been so hard to support that the adult fans ended up being just ignored more than they were mocked. That wouldn't have been the case if the books *hadn't* been determinedly marketed as children's books.

But I keep thinking that what we really have here is a failure of imagination. And for that matter much of her "inventiveness" has always boiled down into silly one-off jokes.

I think she honestly didn't have any idea of what more advanced magical studies would consist of, or what it would look like. From OotP on we spent progressively less and less time actually in class. Particularly when you look at the class time as a percentage of the whole. I suspect you could say the same for GoF as well. None of the padding in the last 4 books was actually concerned with official class time.

And she kept *forgetting* about the magic that she had already let them learn. And while she could do a good job of developing them from 11-year-olds to 14-year-olds she couldn't seem to get them any farther.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

The magical education thing was definitely a risk in going from clearly children's level to YA, which might as well be adult. Take things like the Pensieve--it's a classic kids' magical device. I know when I was a kid I would often think it would be cool to just be able to show somebody a memory. It makes perfect sense. It only becomes complicated when you're an adult and start asking complicated questions: is one's subjectivity affecting the memory? How far can the person go in the memory, since they're not literally in the past? How can Harry overhear things that the memory holder didn't hear in the first place? etc.

And some will just say that it's a kid's book and you're not supposed to be asking those things--only that's only true so long as they are kid's books. There's a point where those questions aren't so very at odds with the level the book claims to be operating at. Not that I'm saying they're a failure because she hadn't worked out the Pensieve on the Quantum level. It's just that teen and adult fantasy often does deal with stuff in a more complicated way and as the kids got older it was more obvious that the magic didn't age with them. There was no real theory to the magic, and Harry and his friends really were perpetually in fifth grade.

Except perhaps for Potions in sixth year where it seems obviously more based on high school chemistry with the Gulpalott's Law (whether or not it makes sense it *sounds* like an actual theory law) and the way Snape was able to be creative based on his grasp of what ingredients do. But that was practically the only class that lent itself to that sort of thing.

Meanwhile the adults somehow remained on a level the kids never seemed to reach. What was all that stuff Dumbledore was supposed to be able to do? Like the way he could read Tom's signature and such? Did adults duel faster? How is Harry at all ready to become an auror at the end of the books?

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

...and as the kids got older it was more obvious that the magic didn't age with them. There was no real theory to the magic, and Harry and his friends really were perpetually in fifth grade.

The point about Potions is well-taken. The law of this or the theory of that could have been introduced in any of the other classes too, but that would have negated having feathers float and gerbils turned into pincushions in first year. They should have stayed with vaguely morphing inanimate objects into something similar until the end of second year or into third year, with these sorts of laws or points to consider being thrown in. I would think that learning the basis of the magic would occur before fooling with small animals.

Meanwhile the adults somehow remained on a level the kids never seemed to reach.

It was hinted at that sixth and seventh year kids, learned more advanced spells. The Weasley twins' inventions and pranks hint at higher years having higher levels of magic (vaguely, under a layer of mean-spirited teasing) all through the books. In GoF only the oldest students, presumably ones who would have reached seventh year, are allowed to take part. Their magic is more advanced, and it's implied (at least I think it is) that they naturally progressed to that point where Harry had to learn more complicated spells without an adequate grounding in the basics.

How is Harry at all ready to become an auror at the end of the books?

Author wish fulfillment; maybe author fangurling.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>>>How is Harry at all ready to become an auror at the end of the books?

Author wish fulfillment; maybe author fangurling.<<<

Oh it's worse than that. There was a point early in OotP, before the series spiraled down into the black hole of Harry worship, that Rowling had *Harry* momentarily think it odd that he was following a suggestion made by a DE about becoming an Auror. But that he couldn't think of anything else that he particualrly wanted to do. And that was the last of any self-examination for him!

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

That wouldn't have been the case if the books *hadn't* been determinedly marketed as children's books.

I just don't understand the mindset when the books follow a child aged eleven to the same child now a young adult of seventeen. One thing fans raved about when I was first entering the fandom was the way the books had aged with the protagonist and his focus audience. Since I had a child in the target demographic, I was pleased to find such a series that didn't make me want to puke from the saccharine. My kid was a little different than I was - I would have read it all on my own, but she was a listener back then, not a reader. I read all of the books until GoF to her. (And of course, by then I was hooked)

I think the last real advance in magic was in GoF. Harry was involved in a dangerous tournament and needed to reach the more advanced magic level of the other contestants. After that, it was no surprise that Harry became a DADA teacher in OotP - fourth year was the last actual learning level. I don't know why wizarding kids attend after fourth year, except to take their O.W.L.s and (fandom speculation again) be certified to operate magically in their world.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Yes, exactly. They could hardly sneer at their original fans for not losing interest before the story was over, which meant that the people who were already adults when they tripped over the books more or less got a free pass.

Of course eventually everyone just assumed they were movie fans anyway.

Yes, GoF was more or less the last year that Rowling seems to have had any interest in the school as a school. And that year was pretty disrupted by the Tournament.

But we spent time in the classes being told what the kids were supposedly learning, and seeing them work at it. After GoF we saw DADA class, which was always new, because there was always a different teacher, and if it mattered to the plot we spent some time in Potions, or Care of Magical Creatures, but when was the last time we spent any quality time in Flitwick's class? Or Minerva's? Apart from when Umbridge was being a menace with her clipboard?

OotP was all about the Harry angst, and HBP was all about the kids' social life. They might as well not have learned anything at all. Apart from Protego, I can't really think of anything they *did* learn.

[(Anonymous)]

After 4 books with believable, flawed but pleasant characters, JKR started to write less and less credible all-perfect or suddenly silly people - or at least tried to. By trying to build them up and (unsuccessfully) trying to control what we thought, JKR finally suceeded in turning Harry Potter into something we always said it wasn't. Just a children's story.

Oh it's far worse than that. It didn't wind up as "just a children's story" it wound up as "just a fantasy novel". It's not children's literature that's plagued with shallow characterization, gross oversimplification of complex issues and insufferably badly thought-out idiot plots, it's Fantasy.

I've never read a Children's Book and thought "but why didn't they just do X, which you have demonstrated is clearly possible" but I get it all the time with genre fiction.

- Dan Hemmens