deathtocapslock | GOF Chapter 28: The Madness of Mr. Crouch

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GOF Chapter 28: The Madness of Mr. Crouch

So the kids send a letter to Percy and go to bring Dobby his new socks. Harry wants to thank him, Ron just wants food. While they're at it Harry thinks of sending more food to Sirius. Hermione wants to see Winky. Who is even worse than before. Being told of Crouch's supposed illness almost leads her to give him away - she says that besides housework she was entrusted with his secrets. But she won't say anything more (and promptly falls asleep - great defense mechanism). Once Hermione brings up the possibility that elves could be unhappy the kids are sent out of the kitchens by elves who prioritize serving their masters over personal happiness. (Note that the enslaved elves are the ones with most dignity. Also note that Hermione still doesn't bother to think of their POV.) This leads to hours of mutual bickering between the 'soulmates' that drives Harry away.

When Harry goes to send Sirius the food he sees mysterious eagle owl (the kind the Malfoys use, ie the Owl of Evil). He also sees Hagrid digging and Olympe attempting to talk to him, with little success.

The next morning Hermione starts receiving hate mail. Including undiluted bubotuber pus, which indeed does funny things to her skin, as Pomona had said. But what I find remarkable is the letter that called her a Muggle and ordered her out of the Wizarding World, because this is the first time we see a non-Malfoy denigrating Hermione for her non-magical origins.

Today's COMC lesson is about using nifflers to detect treasures and other sparkly things. Of course Hagrid only warns the kids to remove their own sparkly items after Pansy gets bitten. Harry was still wearing his broken watch so he'd have something sparkly to remove. Ron's niffler is particularly efficient at bringing back gold. There has to be a catch right? Oh, it's leprechaun gold. It doesn't last. Like the gold Ron collected at the QWC to pay Harry for the omnioculars. So again we are shown how wizarding-raised Ron doesn't know about leprechaun gold. But then neither did any of the others who collected it at the QWC. Is this such a big secret? Except it is written in Fantastic Beasts. I suppose Harry and Ron only opened that book after 4th year despite having it all along? What about the rest of the wizards - what is their excuse?

Now Hermione is obsessed with discovering how Rita operates (and with taking revenge on her). 'Moody' claims he didn't see her near the lake at the time of the second task. Also, looks like he was working seriously to teach the class about hex deflection. I'm sure Barty enjoyed hexing all those kids. Hermione is a true witch, she is already thinking of Muggle technology as 'substitutes for magic'. Anyway, she really hopes Rita is using illegal means for her eavesdropping. Because then Hermione can commit the illegal act of blackmail in return.

OK, no need to keep counting Harry's letters to Sirius, he is enclosing notes saying all is well with the food. (Hah! As the series ends all is well just as much as it is here. The next Dark Lord is around the corner.)

Hedwig shows up with a package of Easter eggs (first time in the series we hear of wizards following this custom) and Percy's letter. While Molly never sent Hermione any hate mail the tiny Easter egg is an anvilliscious hint as to what Molly thinks of her. Has Hermione's blood status got anything to do with Molly's acceptance of Rita's version or is it just the fact that it was in the paper so it must be true? Percy sticks to the version that his superior was just taking a break. For some 4 months. And yes, it was Crouch's handwriting on the owled instructions (well, it was).

Springtime is the season when traditionally in HP little happens for months on end, so we skip to the last week of May, when the champions are invited to meet Ludo in the Quidditch field at 9:00 pm for instructions. (Aha! That's why Quidditch was canceled this year - there was a maze to grow. Though I'm not sure when the hedges were planted, if they can grow from a size that can be easily climbed over to 20 feet in the coming month.) Fleur is nice to Harry since the second task. A decent girl would have sucked up to him all along.

Ludo says the first champion to touch the cup gets full marks. Was the cup intended to become a Portkey that would transport the winner to the starting point? Hard to tell, but to remind you, when he presented the first task Ludo avoided mentioning dragons - he called them "the thing you are about to face" as he presented the bag of mini-dragons. So Ludo may have been just as coy here. In any case, one was supposed to touch the cup, merely reaching it was not enough.

Viktor has to ask Harry about his relationship with Hermione (sorry, Hermy-own-ninny, sigh) because she talks about Harry so much. Harry can't believe Viktor is treating him like an equal - is Harry channeling Dobby?

Oops, Crouch shows up. After having walked all the way from where? I used to think it was from his home, but close reading of the next chapter suggests he had been kept in the Riddle House in Little Hangleton.

Crouch's rantings are of 3 types: references to the days before his son's arrest, references to the last summer and his attempts to confess to Albus. Crouch was very proud of his son's 12 OWls. And looks like attending a concert with the Fudges was the height of the Crouches' social life back then. Anyway, if Crouch took the time to take his son to a concert then he didn't spend the entire time at work, war or no war. As for Weatherby, he seems to have occupied much of Crouch's world for a while.

So what does his confession amount to? It is his fault Bertha is dead, something about his son was his fault, the Dark Lord is stronger, something about Harry Potter. It seems Crouch was quite aware of the plot. But his oddest line is "You're not ... his?... Dumbledore's?" Elkins took this to mean that even at his death Crouch did not believe in human autonomy. People belonged to their leaders (and fathers and bosses), to serve them as the latter saw fit. Thus in her interpretation Crouch died unredeemed. Too bad it turned out Crouch's view was shared by Albus.

Harry runs to Albus' office, which surprisingly was moved 5 floors down from its usual location. Unfortunately the password was changed too over the course of the last two years. Also, it is Severus that shows up to deal with the impatient Harry. You know, suddenly duj's reading, that Albus was taking a bathroom break and Severus was holding Harry up in the meantime makes a lot of sense. Of course Severus is impatient - Harry isn't making more sense than Crouch. Additionally, whatever it is that complicates Severus' reaction to Moody should be true for Crouch as well. By next year Severus will learn to pay attention when Harry seems to be talking nonsense. It means dramatic events are afoot.

Harry is able to convey what little he understood from Crouch to Dumbles. They find Viktor, who was stunned from the back, but no Crouch. Oh, Dumbles sends a silvery ghostly bird from his wand to Hagrid's cabin - first use of a Patronus as texting device. Here one needs to aim it, yet in future books people will be using this method to communicate across the country. Hagrid is sent to call Igor and 'Moody'. Surprisingly 'Moody' was already there, claiming Severus reported to him about Crouch. Well, we know 'Moody' was there already - I'm guessing he had the bone into which he transfigured his father's body in his pocket. And he knew to mention Severus because he must have seen him on the map with Harry when he was following his father on said map.

Now 'Moody' is off, supposedly in search for Crouch, when Hagrid brings Igor. The latter is quick to blame Albus and his friends in a plot to harm Viktor in order to enable Harry's victory. Characteristically for Hagrid he responds to Igor's spitting on the ground in front of Albus by slamming Igor against a tree. Perhaps it would have been even more in character if he had done so to Viktor.

I realize that I don't really understand Igor. Does he believe as he states that Harry's participation in the tournament and the attack on Viktor were motivated by an attempt to snatch a deserved victory out of his student's hands or does he believe something more sinister is going on, something related to the darkening Mark on his arm? And why did he give Harry a mean look when he first saw him, before the Goblet situation? Shouldn't he have been grateful to the boy to whom he owed his freedom? Unless he thought it was proof Harry had lots of native Dark Magic?

Albus sends Harry to Gryffindor Tower with Hagrid as escort, and a heavy hint to write to Sirius in the morning. We learn from Hagrid that Albus is really worried. More than he was when he had Tom on the back of a teacher's head. More than when a monster was attacking students, or a suspected mass murderer got to a student's bed with a knife.

Oh, and Hermione shouldn't be hanging out with that foreigner Viktor. Foreigners only date you to use you to get information to their advantage.

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While Molly never sent Hermione any hate mail the tiny Easter egg is an anvilliscious hint as to what Molly thinks of her. Has Hermione's blood status got anything to do with Molly's acceptance of Rita's version or is it just the fact that it was in the paper so it must be true?

That never stopped bothering me.
It the chapter "Mayhem at the Ministry" Arthur, Percy and Bill all talk about Rita and her "poisoned quill". Bill goes as far as to say that "Rita Skeeter never makes anyone look good." and talks about things Rita wrote about him.
The chapter opens with Rita's article in which Arthur is presented in very unfaltering light.
When Percy comments that Arthur's statement may have been unwise :
“Don't you dare blame your father for what that wretched Skeeter woman wrote!” said Mrs. Weasley, flaring up at once.

So, when she is writing about members of her family she is a "wretched Skeeter woman" but when she writes something about a girl Molly knew for 4 years and had staying in her home multiple times then she is writing truth?
Double standards and hypocrisy all around.

I just can't decide if Molly's behaves that way because she is a bigot (her attitude towards muggles when talking about Arthur's hobby and when taking kids on the train) and so see Hermione's blood status as "inferior" or is it simply anger at a possibility that 1. Hermione might "get" Harry (Ginny 's "one true love") to fall in love with her or 2. That Hermione is not interested in Ron.

Or perhaps it is some twisted combination of all those things.

And considering how Molly normally treats Ron, I'm not sure what possibly expecting Hermione to end up with Ron says of her view of Hermione.

I never understood that scene either. Up until this point, it had been established that Molly despised Rita Skeeter and denounced her articles as libel and trash. But now all of a sudden, she believes Rita? She doesn't think that Rita's article about Hermione is just as false as the one she wrote about Arthur? Especially since, as you've said, Molly knows Hermione personally and has frequently invited her to her home?

It just doesn't make sense and it really doesn't cast a favorable light on Molly's character.

And considering how Molly normally treats Ron, I'm not sure what possibly expecting Hermione to end up with Ron says of her view of Hermione.
You're right. Molly does treats Ron like trash. He's the unwanted, not terribly bright/ talented / whatever boy child she got trying for a girl.
So accepting Hermione as "good enough" for him ... Not very flattering.

It just doesn't make sense and it really doesn't cast a favorable light on Molly's character.
Honestly, I don't see anything good or nice about Molly at all. I haven't liked since her's "packed with Muggles, of course" comment about a Muggle train station (it had me going "What? Do you think wizards should just prohibit Muggles form using the train station to make it easier for you? Never mind that the train station was made by Muggles for Muggles and that wizards are using it without so much as a by-your-leave.) but the Easter eggs incident still surprised me.

At that time Hermione is what 14-15 years old? And she spent 3 or 4 summers at Molly's home? Plus she knows from the the things her kids are talking / owling what kind of a girl she is. But she still accept the "Hermione is a femme fatale" picture form a women she normal consider a malicious lair?
I'd like to ask JKR what is that all about.

Honestly, I don't see anything good or nice about Molly at all. I haven't liked since her's "packed with Muggles, of course" comment about a Muggle train station (it had me going "What? Do you think wizards should just prohibit Muggles form using the train station to make it easier for you? Never mind that the train station was made by Muggles for Muggles and that wizards are using it without so much as a by-your-leave.)

This. For a supposedly superior people, the WW seems to do a lot of leeching off the Muggle one.

This. For a supposedly superior people, the WW seems to do a lot of leeching off the Muggle one.

But it's selective leeching; like okay, they're using a Muggle train station, and even utilizing a locomotive that was invented, and presumably manufactured by, Muggles. (And just who built those hundreds of miles of track from London to Hogsmeade?) They also have toilets, wagons, and equipment with which to attach thestrals to said wagons.

But why didn't the WW latch onto other 19th/early 20th century technology, such as gaslights? They use quills, which were a technological advancement to brush and ink, so why not adopt ink pens?

If they are willing to take the Muggle-invented steam engine and put it to use as a land vehicle, why not then also create boats with steam-engines? Why not have steam heat in buildings?

If you are going to create an AU portal in the middle of a major Muggle place, why not in others? Why not an equivalent in, say, grocery and department stores, rather than do your shopping in a small, basically "ghetto" neighborhood you've created?

For that matter, why have Hogwarts at all? Just create AU portals in Muggle schools thru out the country, the magikal kids could act like they're part of the general student body but instead disappear into a wall that leads them to the alternative, magikal school.

All of these are quite interesting as alternatives. Personally, I want to read a story about the muggle student who accidentally stumbles through one of these portals to the alternate school.

At this point, Hermione's only been to the Weasleys' home this one summer, just before the World Cup. It was only Harry there in CoS, and they met in Diagon Alley in PoA. So... I think that before this summer, Molly had only met Hermione twice, and had spent no more than an afternoon and a day with her.

On the other hand, Hermione *had* been a guest for a while just that summer in GoF, so... yeah.

This leads to hours of mutual bickering between the 'soulmates' that drives Harry away.

AH!! That explains it.

See, all those times when the bickering and arguing and fighting and warfare between Hermione and Ron drove him away ... they no doubt rushed into a passionate embrace mere seconds after Harry's departure. Every time. To relieve all of that incredible sexual tension that was hiding right underneath the animosity and conflicting opinions and antagonistic goals. Uh huh.

:-)

>> I realize that I don't really understand Igor. Does he believe as he states that Harry's participation in the tournament and the attack on Viktor were motivated by an attempt to snatch a deserved victory out of his student's hands or does he believe something more sinister is going on, something related to the darkening Mark on his arm? And why did he give Harry a mean look when he first saw him, before the Goblet situation? Shouldn't he have been grateful to the boy to whom he owed his freedom? Unless he thought it was proof Harry had lots of native Dark Magic? <<

It is clear I think that Karkaroff was a true supporter of Voldemort and wanted him to take over. But Harry is the unwitting cause of Voldemort's first downfall which had put Karkaroff at risk of being sent to Azkaban. Karkaroff only did a deal with Crouch to avoid Azkaban. Naturally Voldemort's possible resurgence unnerves him, because he had to renounce Voldemort and betray other Death Eaters in order to avoid Azkaban. He hates Harry for being the innocent cause of the hole he dug himself into. By JKR's standards it makes unusually good sense.

Slight correction - Igor was already in Azkaban at the time of Godric's Hollow. He made the deal with Crouch because he saw no point in enduring the dementors a day too many. If he hadn't been able to provide sufficiently useful information he would have been sent *back* to Azkaban. Does this change anything for you?

Ah. The original UK edition didn't give any indication of exactly when Karkaroff was imprisoned in relation to Voldemort's first fall. Is this something you learned from the US edition or did JKR drop it in one of her many interviews? I think that an author should not retrospectively change work retrospectively in interviews once it is committed to print, but JKR not only does so, but also keeps changing the changes made in earlier interviews.

Crouch's words indicate Igor was already tried and sentenced. He had already been in Azkaban and was going back there until Crouch decided if he should be let out. IOW the hearing we see wasn't his original trial.

I get the timing of his original arrest from what he knew and didn't know. He was aware of the death of the McKinnons (probably was one of those who killed them) in late July (shortly before Harry's birthday, based on Lily's letter), but not of the death of the Prewett brothers at the hands of Dolohov and 4 others or the subsequent arrest of Dolohov, nor the death of Rosier at Moody's hand. And Sirius knew Rosier died before Tom's downfall. (Some readers were unhappy that Rosier's death was much less than a year before Tom's downfall, but I don't think Sirius' wording requires that - if Wilkes and Rosier died at different 2 times over the course of the last year of the war Sirius' wording is fine.)

He could still be a genuine Voldemort supporter and resent Harry because he defeated the Dark Lord, even if he wasn't enthusiastic enough to face Azkaban like, say, Bellatrix Lestrange was.

So... random question. The WW seems to have the trappings of both Easter and Christmas, but are they actually Christian? It seems weird that they would share anything culturally with the muggles like that. Or is there a wizard version of Jesus who did the exact same things and died in the exact same way? Or did JKR just not think it out that far?

How much of what Jesus did can't be done by an average wizard? I bet in her world Jesus was a wizard, related to some ancestor of Godric Gryffindor. Or perhaps the Peverels.

True, but would any wizard be selfless enough to die to save mere muggles? Doesn't seem likely to me.

No, he only tricked the Muggles into thinking he died for them.

Ugh, that makes it all the more disgusting, doesn't it? The more we discuss these books, the more I want to beat JKR over the head with something.

OK, maybe he meant to die for them but didn't, like Harry. But why would he mean to? Maybe he was Pilate's Horcrux or something.

Ah, but here we go back to the idea that there really is a wizard selfless enough to even WANT to sacrifice himself for Muggles. Which, given the way that the WW views them, is pretty unlikely. They would probably think of it as the equivalent of dying to save a bunch of animals or something.

That's why Jesus was remembered as so selfless -- dying to save Muggles is probably so unusual in the Wizarding World that they *would* remember somebody doing it two thousand years after he died...

Wow, good point. Somehow, I would think that most wizards would find the idea laughable though.

They do give Order of Merlin for saving Muggles. Not sure if any of them involved death of a wizard.

Hmmm, for some reason I don't remember that. Eh, it's been a while since I read the books though.

Hence the lack of actual religion in the WW -- they used to be Christians, but as they grew to look down on Muggle culture more they began to find the concept of dying to save them laughable, and eventually gave up on the whole religion thing. (Places like St. Mungo's with religious references in their names were founded before this attitude took hold -- as I think it would make more sense for it to have grown up after Seclusion, when they had no real contact with Muggles to correct their stereotypes -- and nobody bothered to change them afterwards.)

Why does this remind me of the annoyingly smug atheist elves in Eragon? Both are beloved by their author and incredibly irritating as a result.

Given that the wizarding world split from the non-magical one only 300 years ago it's perfectly reasonable imo. By then a Christian culture had been long established for several hundred years - several hundred years that wizards shared with non-magical people, as well as their social life. They share more than 3/4 of their recorded written down time-line with muggles. It would be odder imo if they ~didn't~ celebrate Christmas and Easter!

Especially as it's not generally a sign of faith: don't forget that the UK are ~much~ more secular then the US! Those occasions have long been and are - despite their religious origins - viewed as cultural and family occasions rather than as Jesus' birth and resurrection.
British wizards share the same culture and temperament as British muggles: they're likely just as secular as muggles (possibly more, since Jesus' miracles, used to demonstrate his above-human status, would seem everyday and mundane to them. In a small village they might still go to church whatever their believes or non-believes are: as a social event) and just as indifferent to organized religion, no matter what their official data says.

JKR doesn't mention religion of any kind in the books though some of her themes and symbols of course heavily draw from Christianity. Which was likely a very sensible decision for a globally marketed product.

With the 300 year-split there are possibly a few religious individuals in the WW, with the majority being secular. Just as there might be Hindus, Buddhists, Jews, Muslims etc. among Hogwarts students of other ethnic origin: both nominally and observant ones. But talking about faith or publicly declaring or promoting it in Britain would be seen as weird, pushy and even creepy - even by religious people because it's such a private matter.

I guess that that would make sense- I had forgotten about the split. On the other hand, why on earth did the split happen in the 1690's, rather than say, after the English Civil War when the likely actively anti-magic puritans were in power? (or so I seem to remember it). I bet that Charles II and his successors would be much more open to the idea, especially if they were able to count on some help from the wizards from time to time.

Harry Potter Wiki says:

'The Statute was introduced because of the widespread persecution of wizarding children by Muggles, the escalating attempts by Muggles to force witches and wizards to perform magic for Muggle ends, the escalating attempts by Muggles to force witches and wizards to teach them magic, the increasing numbers of witch-burning, the increasing numbers of Muggles being burned in mistake for witches, and the failure of Ministry of Magic Delegation to Muggle King and Queen (William and Mary) begging for protection under Muggle law. '

In fact, the last major witch persecutions in England took place 30 odd years earlier, as you say,under the Puritans. No witch was burned in England - those accused of witch craft were hanged.

To make sense of this, you could say that this is wizarding propaganda to cover increasing scientific investigation by Muggles. Newton published Principia Mathematica in 1687. The Royal Society was founded in 1660 (and its website is now discussing how Harry's invisibility cloak might become a reality). So Muggles might well be showing a scientific interest in strange phenomen and wizards secreted themselves away both to safeguard magic for themselves, and so they could remain superior even as Muggle technology advanced (see Molly and Kings Cross).

OK, that makes some sense, but why wouldn't William and Mary help them? I mean, these people are pretty much a secret weapon. Any smart ruler would have been careful to appease them and them on their side. And it wasn't like an English ruler hadn't patronized the magic arts before- look at Elizabeth I.

Eh, I'm probably over-analyzing it though.

Oops, that should read "*keep* them on their side."

Of course this all assumes that Rowling has the least bit of interest/knowledge in history -- which we all know she does not! LOL

So Muggles might well be showing a scientific interest in strange phenomen and wizards secreted themselves away both to safeguard magic for themselves, and so they could remain superior even as Muggle technology advanced (see Molly and Kings Cross).

And consider the fact that prior to that time, many things we now know are natural and caused by scientifically explained processes, were considered mysterious, "magikal" and "occult"...

So one can interpret the sudden decision to exclude themselves from nonmagikal folk in 1692 in light of a small group of people who used to con a larger group of people with a bag of tricks, realizing that a goodly number of said "tricks" were now going to be found out to be nothing more than hitherto misunderstood scientific processes. IOW, said tricks weren't really "magik" at all.

If you had a way to travel back to 1350 AD, people from that time would think you were a wizard/witch when you flicked a Bic (cigarette lighter), or switched on a flashlight (electric torch)...

Any sufficiently advanced technology seems like magik to less-advanced people... ;-)

So one can interpret the sudden decision to exclude themselves from nonmagikal folk in 1692 in light of a small group of people who used to con a larger group of people with a bag of tricks, realizing that a goodly number of said "tricks" were now going to be found out to be nothing more than hitherto misunderstood scientific processes. IOW, said tricks weren't really "magik" at all.

I love this idea so much, though it seems to me that there were plenty of intelligent muggles who would probably be able to figure out their plan and spy on them, or at least take notes to try to replicate the magical effects. I know it's a few years too late, but I really am wanting to write a fic involving Aphra Behn, Charles II and a few well paid squibs keeping tabs on the Wizarding world. Uh... but I am also an Aphra Behn fangirl like that.

I love this idea so much, though it seems to me that there were plenty of intelligent muggles who would probably be able to figure out their plan and spy on them, or at least take notes to try to replicate the magical effects.

The point I was trying to make is that prior to the last decade of the 17th century, that perhaps more than half -- maybe as much as 75 to 80 percent -- of a wizard or witch's "bag of tricks" was actually composed of things that eventually would be explained scientifically.

We know that in our "real world", that medieval alchemists actually were the forerunners of today's chemical engineers.

In Rowling's world, she presents a premise that before the 1690s magikal folk lived relatively openly amongst nonmagikal folk. One of the excuses she presents for the creation of the secrecy statute was that nonmagikal people were pressuring the magikal folk to do magik for them.

Why would nonmagikal folk suddenly start demanding magik from wizards and witches at the end of the 17th century? Wouldn't they have been asking/"demanding" it for a long period of time before that?

So what if the real issue was that by that time period nonmagikal people were discovering new scientific principles that revealed that much of what wizards and witches had presented in the past as "magik" was really something based in scientific reality?

The secrecy statute may actually have been a way to ghetto-ize themselves to hide the fact that most of what they'd been presenting as "real magik" was no more than a smoke-and-mirrors stage act.

Notice I say "most"...obviously there was real magik in Rowling's world, but I suspect that most of what the WW presented to the non-WW prior to the last decade of the 17th century would later in the 18th and 19th centuries be proclaimed in the nonmagikal world as revolutionary scientific discoveries...and the WW saw the writing on the wall.

So they passed a law saying that it was forbidden for magickal and nonmagikal folk to interact with each other, just to hide the fact from the non-WW that most of the WW's schtick was a con! ;-)

Ok, I understand what you're getting at now- the muggles were getting too smart for them. I like this explanation much better than Rowling's, since it actually acknowledges the fact that the WW is not so all- superior as she would lead us to believe. :-)

I like this explanation much better than Rowling's, since it actually acknowledges the fact that the WW is not so all- superior as she would lead us to believe. :-)

And it puts the "Muggles are stealing our magik" claim in a whole new light, since what was probably happening was that nonmagikal scientists and inventors starting in the late 17th century were discovering the scientific principles behind 3/4 of what the WW world had previously presented as "real magik", and going on to create devices that recreated much of what wizards and witches had previously done.

I have to defend Rowling a bit here, even with her well-known urgh!maths!urgh!history-fails. *looks at sentence written* Wow, this is such a rare occasion! I'll have to memorize this post^^

It's named the INTERNATIONAL Statute of Secrecy. So more than just British politics have to be considered here, officially establishing them in 1692. 1692/3 was when the Salem trials happened: I suspect that gave her the date....

Of course after then the witch-prosecution pretty much died down in Europe with relatively few people executed in the 18th century, so it seems to have come rather late. But one could argue that THAT diminishing magical - or perceived magical - prosecution was actually the result of the Statute working^^

So... she created something akin to the UN several centuries early? Hmm...

So... random question. The WW seems to have the trappings of both Easter and Christmas, but are they actually Christian? It seems weird that they would share anything culturally with the muggles like that.

The trappings of both Christmas and Easter far predate the advent of Christianity.

IOW, pagans had celebrations for both seasons that later Christians adopted/adapted to their own religion.

Eggs were used in pagan rites to celebrate the Spring Equinox because they represented fertility, renewal, and rebirth. Ditto bunnies and lambs that were being born around the same time.

And those same pagans had Winter Solstice celebrations that included evergreens (including trees), holly, mistletoe, and deer.

True, but they do call it Christmas and Easter, which makes it more confusing. Still, I should have remembered this. *blushes*

Of course Hermione doesn't think about house elves PoVs. She doesn't do that with fellow humans - why should she for magical beings she doesn't really respect?! If anyone's/anything's opinions doesn't match with her own they're obviously wrong in the first place. It's that easy^^

God, Dobby was probably the creepiest character in the books apart from Umbridge. Voldemort should have taken some inspiration from those two for styling himself fearsome! That instant servility to Harry from the supposedly freedom-yearning and later proudly free house elf.... *shudder* But it's probably just grovelling to evil characters that's demeaning and inhuman, grovelling and bowing to heroes is just the natural way of world.

Molly's behaviour there had me conclusively assigning her to the ever expanding irredeemably unlikable characters-camp among the heroes. Her constant open put-downs to Ron while cooing over Harry was spiteful and creepy enough. But believing Skeeter who she both personally disliked and had established as untruthful in her writings?! For all the supposed cosy togetherness, I think the whole Weasley-clan is deeply dysfunctional.

BTW: ARE there magical creatures Hermione respects as worthwhile and intelligent beings? She sneered about the unicorns, called centaurs "horses" if I remember right and drew her opinion of werewolves being oppressed from personally liking wooby!Lupin (remember, as a 14 year old she thought it would be up to her to protect the fully grown adult in a position of authority over her!) but certainly didn't seem interested to learn much about their plight and managing their very real danger to others, sneered and felt threatened by veelas and their looks/effect on men. Can't recall anything about phoenixes that goes beyond one being Dumbledore's pet (making AD all the more speshuuul) and it's uses. She didn't seem to have expressed opinions about vampires that I remember....

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GOF Chapter 28: The Madness of Mr. Crouch

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Karkaroff's trial

Re: Karkaroff's trial

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