deathtocapslock | The Prank: An Utterly Reluctant Reconsideration

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The Prank: An Utterly Reluctant Reconsideration

I really, really hate to be fair-minded. But sometimes I just can’t help it.

Regarding the Prank, I’ve always dismissed Lupin’s claim that James had risked his own life to save Snape’s as a feel-good lie to make James look good to his orphaned son, on the same level as “Severus loathed James because James was talented at Quidditch, not because (heavens, no!) James was a nasty entitled little jerk who was talented at making life a misery for everyone not as rich and Pureblooded as himself.”

And really (going back to the Prank), James would always have had the option of transforming into a stag had Moony actually caught up with the two of them, right? Fierce debates on Snapedom years ago over the Prank, over whether a stag (with or without antlers) could have run or even stood up in that tunnel aside, we ended up agreeing that transformed-James could at least have lain down in it.

And he knew that when transformed, Moony wouldn’t bother him.

I mean, didn't he?

We know that the Prank happened before SWM, which happened at the end of Snape and the Marauders’ fifth year. And we know that sometime during that school year, the Marauders all learned to become Animagi and started letting Moony out to frolic, themselves immune to the danger they were exposing others to.

But someone (I don’t remember who, at this remove) once suggested that Sirius might have sent Snape down that tunnel as a prophylactic measure—to get rid of the sneak BEFORE he could inform on the Marauders’ seriously criminal behavior.

Perhaps, before they had even started engaging in the seriously criminal behavior of letting loose a class XXXXX dangerous creature in an inhabited area?

Perhaps… before they were actually capable of such behavior?

We don’t know for sure when exactly in fifth year James learned to transform, or when he verified that his stag-form wasn’t viewed as prey by the werewolf.

If Sirius sent Snape down that tunnel before James could reliably transform, or before James knew for sure that the werewolf would leave the stag alone, then James WAS risking his life in going after Severus.

Even though he still would have been motivated more by CYA (or C. Your Friends’ A.) rather than by any concern for Snape’s well-being, which to my mind would rather let Severus off the hook for a “life debt.”

Still, maybe I’ve been failing to give James his due for taking real risks to save his friends, at least.

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Oh, good, I really detest having to give James any credit....

Though to play Devil's Advocate here, Sev said, "They sneak out at night. There's something weird about that Lupin. Where does he keep going?"

"He's ill," said Lily. "They say he's ill--"

"Every month at the full moon?"

"They" sneak out, but 'where does "he" keep going... every month at the full moon?'

This could indicate that the Marauders were still in the testing/practising stage of the Animagi transformations. (Where in the castle would be safe to practice such magic?) Sev wasn't saying that "they" were specifically sneaking out on full-moon nights (only). He was definitely trying to accusie Lupin of being a werewolf and Potter both of consorting with a Dark creature (while Lily objected to Sev's friends!) and of getting up to no good on his illicit nocturnal jaunts, but Sev didn't seem aware that the Marauders had threatened anyone's life but his.

There's a continuum from "knew Lupin's lycanthropy and didn't desert him" to "became Animagi and kept him company in the Shack" to "letting the werewolf out of the Shrieking Shack to roam the school grounds and the village by night". We were told that all three had reached the second point sometime in Y5, that Peter was the last, and that Peter, as the smallest, was the one usually used to freeze the Whomping Willow. (Note that Peter, as the smallest, would also be the worst hurt if he were hit... in fact he could most easily be killed.... a risk Sirius and James were heroically prepared to take) But you don't actually need a small animal to operate the Willow, so the other two Marauders could theoretically have entered the tunnel well before Peter had mastered his Animagus form.

Sev's comments do seem to make clear that the Prank happened, at the least, before the Marauders had started letting the wolf out for walksies.

Of course, it would have been insanely stupid of Sev to enter that tunnel on Black's word if he hadn't alredy seen some of the Marauders do so and show up the next day unharmed. (From which he would have inferred that the werewolf was confined in some manner.... ) Still, we were told that Peter was the last to learn the transformation; we weren't told who was first. If Sirius had been the first, and had been down to keep Remus company already, while James was still struggling with the transformation....

I don't think we can rule it out entirely.

A final point I just thought of: Severus apparently never did discover that the Marauders were letting the werewolf out to play in the village and school grounds. It seems hard to believe that he would voluntarily have given up "Sneaking around, trying to find out what we were up to... hoping he could get us expelled," as Sirius put it. And if Sev had ever discovered the true extent of the Marauders' crimes, the four WOULD have been expelled and/or sent to Azkaban, string-pulling rich Pureblood families irregardless (since any string the Potters or Blacks could pull on behalf of their sons led to someone with family/friends in Hogsmeade or at Hogwarts who'd been directly threatened by the boys' hijinks).

I'd previously argued that only a magical compulsion could have kept Sev from telling Lily, at least, what had really happened. (I mean, the threat of expulsion pales in the face of the potential risk to Lily if she's giving her trust to a werewolf and three other attempted-murderers. Even leaving aside Sev's natural fury at seeing Lily laud as a hero someone who was, instead, a cold-blooded killer who'd realized the odds were unacceptably high against the Marauders getting away with murdering Severus in that manner.)

Did Dumbledore also put a magical compulsion on Severus to stop spying on the Marauders? Could anything less have made Severus do so? For the evidence is that Severus did not spy on the Marauders' nocturnal activities after the Prank.

If Dumbles had, might that not explain Sev's unawareness of his perennial tormenters before the first hex in SWM?

Or did Dumbles simply do something that effectively confined the spying Slytherin, but not the criminal Gryffindors, to his dormitory after curfew?

Sorry about the previous deleted comment.

----Did Dumbledore also put a magical compulsion on Severus to stop spying on the Marauders?

Swythyv pointed out (http://swythyv.livejournal.com/17051.html?thread=278427#t278427) a few months ago that it may not have been Dumbledore who put the compulsion on Severus.

I was thinking that maybe the Marauders forced Severus to make an unbreakable vow in payment for the life debt that he supposedly owed James.

P.S. I'm referring to the comments section of Swythv's post, not the main essay.

I was thinking that maybe the Marauders forced Severus to make an unbreakable vow in payment for the life debt that he supposedly owed James.

I suppose that could have happened, however, I'm wondering if it's possible to make an Unbreakable Vow against one's will?

I'm more inclined to think Dumbledore was just depending on Snape's honor. An honorable Slytherin? Unbelievable . . .

I'm wondering if it's possible to make an Unbreakable Vow against one's will?

In Goblet of Fire Dumbledore states Harry has to compete even though Harry didn't put his own name in. Scary idea that you can be bound to a magically binding, potentially deadly contact against your will.

Hmmm, yes, but it wasn't an actual Unbreakable Vow and anyway, Harry survived.

and anyway, Harry survived

The justification the Mauraders use. Snape wasn't actually hurt so whats the problem?

Point taken!

Later when Severus decides to turn, Dumbledore trusts him on his word alone. To me Severus seems the kind of boy/man who once he has agreed to keep it secret, he will as long as it is possible. Strange as it is, I don't think that there was any magic involved.

Snape gave a stiff nod. [to: "I have your word that you will do all in your power to protect the students of Hogwarts?"]
...

At last Snape gave another curt nod [to the proposition that he should murder Dumbledore at Twinkle's word].

Yes, I agree with what you're registering: where Severus has given his loyalty, he doesn't need Unbreakable Vows or wand oaths or life debts or any other trash to be trustworthy.

An honorable person is bound by hir honor.

A dishonorable one, can be bound by nothing. You can try the Unbreakable Vow, but s/he'll probably find a way to wriggle out of performing hir debt, whatever penalties you impose.

I mean, this is the basic problem of signing a contract with a dishonest person. A slimeball can always find wriggle-room, however tight you try to make the contract.

So, yes, we see Dumbledore accepting Severus's nod in HBP (not even verbal affirmation!) as worth more than an Unbreakable Vow from a lesser man. (We don't know if Twinkles accepted Sev's "Anything" when he turned as worth the same, because that was Snape's memory and we never saw Dumble's response to Sev's affirmation. Snape gave that memory to Harry as proof of his absolute loyalty to Lily, so he'd hardly have shown Harry if Dumbles' response at the time had been to set spies on Severus to see if his repentence was genuine and abject enough).

But that's my whole problem with this incident.

Snape has no reason to be loyal, or protective, or whatever, of any of the principals here.

Yes, if he gave an authentic oath he'd honor it. But why would he give such an oath?

And a forced oath, an involuntary one, he'd instead look for means to circumvent.

Sev told both Lily (a few days after the incident) and Harry (his considered judgment as an adult) that wha HE thought was going on was: the Marauders (all four, the dominent pair, or the pair plus the werewolf, is not made clear) decided to rid themselves of the Slytherin spy by committing murder-by-werewolf.

Only James realized at the last minute that the Marauders might not be able to cover up such a crime, and intervened to "save" Snape. Or rather, to save himself, Black, and Lupin (and maybe Pettigrew) from expulson and Azkaban.

Severus owed no debt to James for that bit of self-serving cowardice. His honor was never engaged by James's "saving" him, not when James was principally saving his own arse and his friends'.

You're right, with Severus, his honor would bind him far more deeply than any magical contract/binding ever could.

With a magical contract, he would simply devote his considerable ingenuity to breaking/circumventing it.

Not so if his honor or loyalty were involved.

(Which, in fact, I rather think is what happened at the end of PoA--Sev had managed to make the binding not to speak directly about Lupin's lycanthropy contingent on that condition's not endangering anyone else.. Once he had proof of such endangerment, he was released to speak...)

But how could Sev's honor or loyalty be invoked in keeping Lupin's/the Marauders' secrets for them?

(And now that I think about it--part of Sev's conflict in PoA might have been between his forced obedience to a binding, which he was always looking for ways to circumvent or break, and his deeper feeliings of loyalty to the headmaster, who seemed, however foolishly, to trust Lupin....)

But how could Sev's honor or loyalty be invoked in keeping Lupin's/the Marauders' secrets for them?

By psychology, we have a very scared, vulnerable , insecure16-year old standing in front of Dumbledore, a figure of authority, one of, if not the greatest wizard alive. Now he stands there in the headmaster's office, feeling beaten and completely worthless. His enemies have been ready to kill him. He has probably just seen the two main perpetrators leave, Potter strutting smugly, because he has been praised for his heroic act. Someone (Slughorn, Poppy) already might have told him off for sneaking around at night. He's feeling very stupid himself for following Sirius' taunt.
Dumbledore is calm and confident. He seems to know everything. His bright blue eyes look right into Severus'. Right into his mind, his heart, his soul. He can see everything, Severus' most secret thoughts, his dreams of revenge, his feelings for Lily, his experiments and researches in the Dark Arts....
I'm pretty sure at some point since he started suspecting Lupin, Severus has looked up anti-werewolf curses, maybe secretly practised them. I don't think he went down the tunnel to attack the werewolf, but he surely has been trying to prepare to be able to protect Lily. He secretly dreams of being her brave hero.
Dumbledore is talking about Lupin, the innocent, the kind boy who deserves to be protected against all those prejudice, about Potter's selfless act of bravery that saved his own worthless life. Severus realizes that Potter will not be expelled for sneaking out at night and he is Slytherin enough to know about the wealth and influence of the Black family. He must be starting to fear that he is the one who's going to pay the price. He's used to it, isn't he? They will say that he tried to kill his classmate.
Dumbledore says that the events of this night have to be kept secret. Severus expects to be forced into an Unbreakable Vow or any other magic bond. He is much too exhausted and confused to know whether he owes Potter a life debt or not and what this means to him. Is this life debt Dumbledore talks about something that will force him to kind of serve Potter from now on? Will he drop dead, if he ever dares to defy Potter?
Dumbledore smiles. He's so understanding, not ordering asking Severus to understand the necessity to protect Lupin. Then Dumbledore stretches out his hand.
“Mr Snape, will you give me your word to keep this secret”
His word, nothing else? Dumbledore trusts him on his word? His word is the only good thing that truly belongs to Severus, the one thing that is completely under his control. Severus is proud to always keep his word. He believes in a few moral standards, strives to be brave and honest. He always admires those who seem to be naturally good like Lily Evans, like Dumbledore.
Dumbledore has seen that in his mind. He has seen something good in him. Severus gives his word to stay silent and Dumbledore seems very pleased. They shake hands as if they might be equals, as if Dumbledore respects him.

Of course, Severus will recover from the non-magic enchantment in the following days, but he will keep his word, because if he breaks it, he loses the last good thing he has, his honour.

Of course, it hasn't happened exactly like this, but it's how Dumbledore works, how he manipulates people and he's good at it. I'm sure he played the same trick with the Marauders. When Sirius and James left his office they both think Dumbledore is the greatest man they ever met and are blindly loyal.
Yes, I know they still kept their secret about their Animagus ability, but I doubt they think of it as a criminal act. They really believe that they are just helping a friend.

Wow, when you put it that way... Poor, poor Snape. Also, seems like yet another example of DD's blatant favoritism.

Did Dumbledore also put a magical compulsion on Severus?

Maybe the Marauders forced Severus to make an unbreakable vow.

It seems to me that the threat of expulsion might be enough to make Sev keep his mouth shut, despite any fears that he might have for Lily. Think about it: He's a poor, ugly half-blood with no influential family members, no money, and no future at all if he gets kicked out of school before he can finish his studies and take his exams. With that on his record, how could he ever hope to get a job? He'd end up as a street kid in Knockturn Alley.

----It seems to me that the threat of expulsion might be enough to make Sev keep his mouth shut

Possibly.... but then what stopped Severus from saying something after he was done at Hogwarts?

Right. Why not tell Lucius? Or Voldemort? Surely one of them would find a way to use it against Dumbles?

What about a combination: Snape was forced, or tricked, into some sort of vow, by the threat, overt or covert, of expulsion? He knew he'd keep a verbal promise, but Dumbledore, at the time, would have known about his friends and their ties, and might have insisted on some sort of magical oath.

For the timing vis the Marauders' marauding, it's possible that Snape didn't know about their releasing the werewolf, even if they did it before the 'Prank.' He knew they snuck out. That doesn't mean he knew they were Anamagi, or, if he suspected, that he knew what their forms were. And, it's been stated that the Forbidden Forest had werewolves in it, so even confirmation of Lupin's 'furry problem' wouldn't be as forthright, even if he saw the four of them dancing, transformed, on Hogwarts' lawn.

One thing that really bothers me about defenses of the 'Prank' - everyone assumes that Snape knew he'd end up in an enclosed space at the end of the tunnel. There's no reason to think that. For all he knew, the tunnel ended in the Forbidden Forest, or in a field outside of Hogsmeade, or anyplace but in a room with an untethered werewolf. Even if he suspected a werewolf, he had no reason to consider that he might end up right inside the 'cage' with the beast.

Well, we're told that Sev had seen POPPY take Lupin to the Whomping Willow.

If that tunnel did NOT lead to an enclosed space where the wolf was secured, Hogwarts staff were loosing a werewolf near Hogswarts/Hogsmeade. Committing the Marauders' crime, in fact.

(But you're right, the reader assumption is probably another case of "we all know this, so the character must have too". Sloppy readership.)

Now, if there actually were a werewolf pack in the FF, it could be assumed that the tunnel loosed RL to join them. Maybe (one would hope!) with some barrier at the other end preventing all the werewolves from surging back up the tunnel and invading the Hogwarts grounds....

But, was there really a pack? Or would Severus have believed there to be? Or was that a rumor started by Lupin's and Black's howling? Even if there were, given what werewolf packs seemed like in HBP, would you want a teen boy exposed to and acculterated by them? And would they accept said teen, stinking of wizards as he did?

Of course, would teen!Severus have thought of any of this?

Regarding defenses of the Prank, however, whatever Severus knew or believed, SIrius knew the truth: that he was sending Snape down a tunnel with no escape routes or defensible side rooms, to face an unconfined werewolf in a restricted space.

Sorry, just now re-found this.

If that tunnel did NOT lead to an enclosed space where the wolf was secured, Hogwarts staff were loosing a werewolf near Hogswarts/Hogsmeade...
(snip)
Of course, would teen!Severus have thought of any of this?

I was imagining more of a scene where the suspected werewolf would be led to a secret location and locked inside a cage. This would prevent him from coming back through the tunnel once he was left on his own, and would prevent him from savaging whoever took him down the tunnel if the timing wasn't right.

Interesting thought about the rumored pack of werewolves in the FF actually being started by Lupin's and Sirius's howling. If a pack actually existed in the FF, wouldn't they have been all over Hogwarts grounds on full moon nights?

And, no, I don't think a teenage boy bent on being a knight in shining armor would think logically.

Well, he was later prepared to betray all his fellow-DEs and risk murder and torture when Voldemort was going after Lily, so I think he'd probably risk expulsion if he thought she might be in danger. Although of course it might just be that the greater danger of having Voldemort trying to kill you compared to simply being friendly with a werewolf spurred him on.

True, everyone. Points taken (no, not House points; you know what I mean). I hadn't thought it through.

I was thinking that after Hogwarts, he'd be too busy being a brand new DE to bother about Lupin, but of course he's want to give that info to Voldie. He would gain points with Voldie, and get some revenge on Dumbles, too. So there must have been some serious compulsion involved.

I do think he'd fear expulsion, though, and I wonder why he seemed to be obsessed with getting Harry expelled, since that would interfere with the objective of protecting Harry so he could eventually destroy Voldie.

"and I wonder why he seemed to be obsessed with getting Harry expelled, since that would interfere with the objective of protecting Harry so he could eventually destroy Voldie. "

Dumbledore wanted Harry to be willing to lay down his life for the WW, which would be less likely if the boy's memories of wizarding life all revolved around being punished in nasty ways. Making empty threats of expulsion (and I don't think Severus would have believed that Harry would actually be expelled, since as you say this would make it harder to protect him) would have been a good way of making it look like Severus hated Harry without having to make his life in the wizarding world too unpleasant.

Exactly. It's also a very handy way for Severus to harmlessly blow off steam. If Harry ever stopped to think for a moment, it would be clear to him that Severus (obviously) doesn't have the power to unilaterally expel him. If he paused for another second, he'd notice that there's never any hint of Severus even attempting to carry through on his threats and perhaps (assuming he thinks about it at all) conclude that they are, in fact empty and not to be taken seriously. Indeed, with even a slightly more reflective and less CAPSLOCKY student, the repeated making of empty threats would be a quick way for Severus to *lose* any sense of respect they might have had for him. I think Severus does it because he knows *Harry* will buy it as a credible threat (and thus hopefully start *obeying* him), and because it's a release valve - he'll take them where he can find them. He's not actually obsessed with expelling Harry, as his conduct with Fudge in POA illustrates: it's his one major opportunity to go over Dumbles' head and really punish the boy, and he immediately says Harry and co. aren't responsible for their actions. He's letting off steam in a safe (and probably somewhat amusing to him) way while still attempting to make Harry recognize him as an authority figure. If Fudge or Dumbledore or Umbridge, etc. ever actually tried to expel Harry, he'd never allow it.

That makes sense. Thanks!

his conduct with Fudge in POA illustrates: it's his one major opportunity to go over Dumbles' head and really punish the boy, and he immediately says Harry and co. aren't responsible for their actions.

It is strange to me that people take Snape's threats to expel Harry seriously. Obviously Dumbledore would never let Harry be expelled.

For all of Snape's supposed hatred of Harry and how Harry thinks Snape is out to get him, look at what happens when Snape really could get Harry in serious trouble. Snape doesn't assume the worst about Harry.

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The Prank: An Utterly Reluctant Reconsideration

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