deathtocapslock | HPPS: the Tally

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HPPS: the Tally

So let’s start with fun stuff.

Times Seamus asked questions: 3

Times Hagrid screwed up and kids saved his ass: 5

Times Ron was seriously injured: 2

Harry’s superb gymnastic score: 3

Anti-intellectual score: 5

References to Tuesday: 2

Wizarding Etiquette lessons: 3

Times our Protagonist should have died: 30

Times good guys broke rules/law: 57

Times this commentator’s brain went to gutter: 10

Olympic score in Leaps of Logic: 44

Times secret society/plot should have been uncovered: 13

Spell Count: Albus: 2 Draco: 1 Hagrid: 1 Harry: 0 Hermione: 7 Minerva: 1 Neville: 1 Quirrellmort: 2 Ron:1

And for more visually minded people:

And now it’s time for my homework: pointing out more technical problems with this book.

Pacing

If I have learned something from being reader and writer it’s this: pacing can make or break your book.

Pacing in this book is all over the place. There were chapters where there was pointless drama or author artificially prolonged plot to reach over 200 pages. Then there were chapters where Jo remembered that she was writing book and not self indulgent fanfiction and rapidly pushed plot. There were chapters that ended abruptly not because of cliff hanger or some kind of plot hook, but simply because author ended current line of thought and couldn’t be bothered to set up things for the next chapter.

IMHO the book suffers greatly from book=school year format. There is not enough meat to the plot to last more than a few months

Thematic and Genre Confusion:

The first few chapters could lead a reader to conclusion that this is one of those stories where poor orphan through luck and hard work manages to improve his life situation and gains friends. A speed run through this book could make someone think that this is fantasy version of boarding school story. The problem is that this book is neither.

What it is then?

On basic level this is elite boarding school story with elements of fantasy setting and calling it fantasy book is doing a big disservice to both this book and the genre. Why I’m saying this book has only elements of fantasy and is not straight up fantasy book? Rowling never explores implications of magic existing in this universe and if Harry was say, barbarian warrior who believes that wizards are servants of Satan this would be perfectly alright. Yet Harry is a freshly minted wizard, who lives in wizard’s society and not only he isn’t curious about society he just have joined, but we only ever learn what Harry does in classroom when either it’s foreshadowing for future plot points or when Rowling tries to ridicule people/subjects/opinions.

Underneath the basic reading lays something much more rotten.

In the beginning of this commentary I assumed that majority of religious overtones were Rowling using standard literary tropes or subconsciously falling back on what was familiar to her. Things start to get really strange in chapter 13 where presence of headmaster, whom he only met when he was reprimanded for taking mirror-drugs, makes our protagonist think he is ‘safe’. I could have ignored it if it weren’t for heavy-handed chapter 17. In this chapter Rowling not only pushes religious themes at reader, but uses language that fits in street preacher vocabulary. Even plot becomes religious metaphor.

In the end the plot is reduced to Satan (Voldemort), who always finds people “willing to let him into their hearts and minds”, is beaten by our hero’s ‘love’ and ‘purity’. The said hero manages to resist temptation and survive attack of evil forces thanks to presence of all knowing god. The resilience of hero is rewarded by the god. Everything hero does before the final chapter is reverted by god, so what is point in doing anything until the right moment? Especially if you are not one of chosen people?

Oh and apparently lying to others or ignoring facts is ok, because truth can be dangerous.

If I’ve to compare chapter 17 to anything then it would be Chick Tracks. The only thing this book lacks is the questionnaire at the end.

Normally I’m ok with authors using religious themes; be it consciously or subconsciously, but Rowling paints very ugly image of morality in children’s book and I’m not ok with that. If it weren’t for this ugliness hiding under mediocre plot, I wouldn’t waste my time dissecting this book and just put it back on shelf along with thousands of other mediocre children’s books.

The Protagonist

In normal books protagonist can be described by character traits. In this book protagonist has to be described by modes.

Harry has 2 modes: Plot Active and Plot Inactive. PA Harry makes leaps of logic worth of Sherlock Holmes and has maxed out gymnastic skill. PI Harry is mystified by 2+2=4 and constantly fumes over injustices inflicted onto him/his hate toward any active character.

If I had to describe Harry without book on hand I would have hard time doing so because his characterisation is all over the place.

Another thing I wanted to discuss here is the trio’s friendship.

They don’t work as a group of friends.

The kids have absolutely nothing in common with each other. This is easier to see in Hermione-Boys connection, since she only spends time with them when she nags them or adventures with them, but Harry-Ron connection also is tenuous. Harry doesn’t enjoy playing chess and plays quidditch only for ego boost so I have no idea what those 2 talk about when there is no nefarious plots for Harry’s life. This could be easily fixed if Harry actually started living; exploring his new world, finding new hobbies, meeting new people. Anything but this situation where he is stuck in the same developmental stage.

Putting that aside, I think that Harry isn’t Hr&R friend, but they are his friends; that is Harry doesn’t treat them like friends. He doesn’t try to learn their birthdays, doesn’t get them anything for Christmas, often has dismissive attitude towards their justified concerns and he doesn’t try to do anything for them. Considering how he treats and describes Hermione pre-Troll Incident, I believe that if Hr&R weren’t useful to him, they would get Neville Treatment.

Tunnel Vision

Rowling’s characters suffer from tunnel vision and while this is quite normal for bunch of eleven year olds whose brains aren’t developed enough for serious critical thinking or Hagrid who is mentally 6 year old, when we see grownups with academic back ground (for example Albus and Minerva in the ch1) acting in such manner, it’s bewildering. The way Jo weaves her plots and how all her characters act leads me to believe that she herself suffers from this problem. There were many instances where I could see alternative ways to solve problems or lead plots that could either enrich existing story or outright lead it to much more interesting places, only to be disappointed by author’s choices. This tells me 2 things: Rowling lacked a person who would point out these things to her and I think I finally figured out why there is so many HP ffs: people enjoy exploring what ifs and adding original concepts onto HP world's lacklustre foundations.

Plot Holes

Once you peel off religious symbolism of the story, plot starts to fall apart. How Quirrellmort knew where the Stone is going to be? How Dumbledore knew that he must move the Stone? Why Harry needed to know how the Mirror works? Why hide Philosopher’s Stone in friggin school? I suspect that the answer is quite simple: Rowling started writing or at very least planning the story from the last chapter. Everything that doesn’t make sense or is unanswered steams from her need to create situations that would lead to the last chapter.

This is novice mistake that many first time writers make after reading all those self help manuals. Knowing how the story is going to end is very helpful, but rigidly holding onto planned end creates a lot of problems.

The Magic System

I’m not sure how Rowling managed to do that, but magic system in her world is both boring and incomprehensible. Normally author who screws up their magic system either over-explains it or makes it too mystical. Here magic is everyday thing that works however author needs it to work at the moment.

Conclusions

This books reads like polished first draft of first time author. It obviously needs an editor that would sit down with Jo and explain to her why and how she should rewrite her book.

Concepts in this books are good, but the author simply lacks skill and finesse to make them work for her.

I'm not surprised that so many publishers rejected HPPS, if this is how the book looked in the script form, but I wonder what exactly they said to it.

TL;DR: Chantal rambles about mediocre book, because she cannot make up her mind. Don't mind her.

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Times Ron was seriously injured: 2

We sometimes talk about how wizards and witches don't have a lot of logical skills. Looking at the way Ron's injuries were treated by everyone around him, could it be that a lot of witches and wizards had head injuries growing up that were never adequately addressed? Sure, the physical injury is taken care of, sometimes so that it doesn't even look like an injury had taken place, but the brain - do they try to heal the damage done to the brain?

I wouldn't be surprised.
I mean Neville's first magical outburst was when he was tossed out of a window. Sure he bounced off the ground, but he should at very least have concussion from that incident.

People go to the hospital wing a lot in the series but it always seems that they're treated for their physical ailments alone, never anything mental or non-physical. Maybe restoring the skull also restores the brain but it would have been nice to see or at least hear (or overhear) that in discussions.

/he isn’t curious about society he just have joined/

Or his parents. He only learns about his parents when other people take it upon themselves to tell him (ex. Minerva about James). He never actively goes out and asks anyone about what his parents were like.

/his characterisation is all over the place/

It seems that other writers seem to unconsciously recognize this, because when I've read other books that use Harry as an example for a character archetype that they're discussing, I've seen him classified as anywhere from a dreamer to a nerd. Which, if you read the books and look at Harry's thoughts, isn't really true. Luna is the dreamy type, not Harry. Harry isn't really a 'dreamer.' He's not really a nerd either, because the only thing that he really takes a keen interest in is Quidditch. Hermione is much closer to the nerd archetype than Harry is. But Harry looks like a stereotypical nerd (skinny, has glasses and messy hair), so maybe that's why he's often categorized as one.

/Harry doesn’t enjoy playing chess and plays quidditch only for ego boost so I have no idea what those 2 talk about when there is no nefarious plots for Harry’s life/

Well, Ron and Harry did talk about Quidditch teams on the Hogwarts Express, so that is still one thing that they have in common. And when Ron and Harry have their falling-out in GOF, Harry thinks that there's a "lot less laughter" without Ron around. But, yes, Harry really doesn't have a lot in common with Hermione. The one thing that they could have bonded over (their Muggle background and unfamiliarity with the wizarding world) is never touched upon because JKR wanted to write about the wizards and not Muggles.

/He doesn’t try to learn their birthdays, doesn’t get them anything for Christmas/

One excuse in CoS is that Ron and his family are too proud to take Harry's money (but not the Weasley twins in GoF). Harry does buy Ron ice cream when they're in Diagon Alley together (while also buying ice cream for himself). But, yes, I have a feeling that the reason why Harry doesn't know that much about Ron and Hermione is because JKR wasn't interested in that information. After seven books, Harry and the reader still have no idea what the first names of Hermione's parents are. Harry has never been to Hermione's house and hardly knows anything about what Hermione's life was like before she went to Hogwarts.

/he doesn’t try to do anything for them/

And yet one of the things that's supposed to differentiate him from Voldemort is that he has friends and Voldemort doesn't.

/Well, Ron and Harry did talk about Quidditch teams on the Hogwarts Express, so that is still one thing that they have in common./

I have to disagree here. Talking usually involves two (or more) parties verbally exchanging ideas/opinions/etc. The way Jo describes it, it looks like Ron was talking at Harry, while our hero was either just nodding or sat there and looked pretty. It's even more visible when a few chapters later Wood explains how Quidditch works and at no point Harry goes "I know! And catching that golden ball earns 150 points, doesn't it?"
I mean I can sit with my friend and listen to him getting nerdy over Nietzsche, but I wouldn't say that we have that in common :)

/And when Ron and Harry have their falling-out in GOF, Harry thinks that there's a "lot less laughter" without Ron around./

And I'm not surprised that there was "lot less laughter" during that time, since annual Ostracising Potter Campaign started around that time. Slytherins producing the badges, Ravenclaws and Hufflepuffs hiding useful books and giving evil eye our protag, heck even Griffindors pressured Harry by nagging him about the way he was entered into the Tournament.

/One excuse in CoS is that Ron and his family are too proud to take Harry's money (but not the Weasley twins in GoF). /

That excuse is BS since Molly send him care package. The least he could do is send Molly thank you card.
And giving gift isn't the same as giving money to someone poor. Just buying Ron a package of chocolate frogs would make Harry look like a good friend.

Edited 2018-08-15 12:40 (UTC)

Concepts in this books are good, but the author simply lacks skill and finesse to make them work for her.
this is why all her other pseudos and stories failed and she had to go back to hp and write a whole prequel- that makes the hp verse have even less sense- its the only way she can make any money of writing. and what blows my mind is how many fans of her would defend her mediocre writing. she is simply NOT a good author, and her grammar is not always on point.

i also agree with the friendship-point of the trio you made: i never got why they would befriend hermione, or even for the matter why hermione would befriend them, it makes no sense; and never to mention that hermione comes across as one of the biggest mary sues ever.

but thank you for this amazing read through and the summery! this was really a nice travel to take with you- will you be doing the other books too, or have you enough after the first one? (because book 2 and even more book 4 is just a mess and all over the place)

Hermione manipulated her way into a friendship with Harry and Ron because she was unbearably lonely. And they kept her around because she was useful.

she was also unbearably annoying- she knew everything better because she read it; but honestly life is not about reading but about doing, she for me was just not a good character: everybody had to accept she was right because she said so; only her opinions and her rules mattered, when people did not as she wanted she either put pressure on them via her friends or went to authorities; and everybody tried to tell her the fucking truth but she didn't listen, because of course she knows better... just urg

I agree with Oryx, Hermione had problems with finding herself in her new surrounding, so she did everything to grab attention of person who was supposed to symbolise everything she admires: Harry. Notice that in CoS she has crush on Lockhart, a guy whose public persona is that of brave guy who helps the helpless.
Now that I think about it, Hr/R makes even less sense, because Ron is completely opposite of her type :/

I'm not sure if I'm going to do the whole series ( just thinking about reading HBP and DH fills me with dread), but around Friday I'll post the first chapter of CoS.

/Now that I think about it, Hr/R makes even less sense, because Ron is completely opposite of her type/

Yeah, I know that others have speculated that she clung to Ron because he was the first wizard who snubbed her, but really, after so many years, that would still be a valid reason to choose him? Ron's only serious rival is Viktor Krum, and Quidditch is the only thing that he and Ron have in common. Furthermore, Quidditch isn't even a point in Viktor's favor, since Hermione made it a point to scoff at his athletic reputation before going with him to the Yule Ball. And it's not like Ron's family is a draw: if Harry treats her as a secondbest friend, then so do the Weasleys, especially Molly. If Hermione wants acceptance in the wizarding world, the Weasleys aren't her only option, especially when they're not as accepting of Muggles as the Malfoys claim.

If Ron was the one to make Hermione laugh, relax, and stop taking herself so seriously, if he (thanks to his father's influence) encouraged her to hold onto her Muggle background, if he actually met her parents and got along well with them (instead of just brushing by them in Flourish and Blotts), and if he actually tried to make something of himself instead of constantly relying on her to do his homework, then their romance could've been more convincing.

/around Friday I'll post the first chapter of CoS./

Great! Looking forward to it. :)

Yeah, I know that others have speculated that she clung to Ron because he was the first wizard who snubbed her...

Harry was promised to Ginny by authorial intent. If Hermione wanted to stay in the Inner Circle, she needed to marry into the Weasley family. Ron was definitely not her type. She couldn't look up to him the way she looked up to Harry and Lockhart so she couldn't respect him as a person, but she could control him.

If Hermione wanted to marry into the Weasley family as her passport into the wizarding world, Percy would have suited her personality better than Ron. A few things are wrong with that:

(1) Percy is sufficiently confident in his own intelligence and knowledge not to be more than mildly impressed with her intelligence and knowledge, and therefore would not polish her ego any more than she deserves (which isn’t nearly as much as she thinks she deserves).

(2) Hermione as Percy’s girlfriend would immediately become the target of the twins and Ginny, as well as losing any pretence that Ron and Harry want her for anything more than homework help.

(3) When Percy eventually becomes estranged from his family for showing more loyalty to the legitimate government of wizarding Britain than to his over-secretive headmaster, Hermione would have to decide which she cared more about: Percy himself, or her hope of becoming a full-fledged member of a pureblood family. I’m not at all sure it would be enough for her to come grovelling back to Ron at that point.

Considering Hermione's type, either Bill or Charlie would be much better than Percy and Ron.
The main problems with this are: a) they are waaaay too old for her in Rowling's mind, b) just like with Percy they don't have self-confidence problems so she couldn't bully them into submission.

As for #3 on your list, I think that Hermione would try to nag Percy into reconciling with his family, unless he could prove to her that what Dumbledor's vigilante group is doing is very suspicious/illegal. Even then I don't think that their relationship would survive, because as shown in DH Hermione clings tightly to image Albus created for himself.

We don’t know enough about Bill and Charlie as people to be able to say if either of them would have suited Hermione. And they’re only too old for her in Rowling’s strange and limited mind, not in the general thought of British/American culture. Indeed, for the male to be a few (but not too many!) years older than the female is considered ideal for a first marriage.

I didn't pick those two because I think they would suite her or something like that. I simply analysed how Hermione sees men around her and compared it with available Weasleys.
Who Hermione admires before HPB? Dumbledore, Harry, Lockhart and Viktor.
She admires Albus to the point, where her sorting seems to be influenced by House Albus supposedly was in and then during the same chapter she grills Percy about Albus' specialisation. Heck if I remember correctly in DH when Harry starts to have some doubts about Dumbledore, she is very quick to shush them.
So what those males have in common? They are powerful, brave, successful in their fields and (aside from our hero) smart.
While we don't know much about either Bill or Charlie, on paper those things are implied by their career choices.
I agree, in many cases a partner bit older than the female might be a good idea, but Jo's view on marriage and dating is odd. It's not old fashioned per say, but just... I don't know Hollywood-ish? what with all heroes being permanently paired off at the end of highschool? :/

Edited 2018-08-23 04:48 (UTC)

In my original comment I mentioned that Hermione might have wanted to marry into the Weasley family as her passport into the wizarding world. I mentioned Percy, you mentioned Bill and Charlie, so I was still focused entirely on her finding a Weasley to marry, not casting around for other possibilities.

Personally I think she should look elsewhere. In about ten or fifteen years she should find a nice muggle who’s at least as smart as she is. And at least as confident in his own intelligence as Severus Snape, so she can’t bully him.

/Personally I think she should look elsewhere./

So do I! Especially after she did some growing up.
Unless Hermione changes her attitude toward muggles and grows up emotionally/mentally, I don't think she should be involved with a muggle. Even if Hermione lied in DH about her parents, it shows that Hermione thought about it enough to consider it to be a believable lie thus any relationship with non-magical person is bound to be very unbalanced in department of power dynamics.

I think JKR preferred people to date and marry within their own age group/grade level. Percy was too old. We're pretty much restricted by the author's preferences here. Percy might have been good for Hermione, given that he was four years older than Ron. She might have been able to look up to him with some sense of awe due to that. He also might have been able to gently guide her away from her Dumbledore worship, little by little, before his break with the family, while she would still be in with Ron and Harry and be able, at least I think so, of bringing reconciliation between the parties.

Another problem with Hermione dating Percy is that their dates wouldn't have been shown, and Ron would have had problems with her dating his 'stuffy' older brother. Ron's feelings would have influenced Harry, and the trio would have had a 'weak link' with Hermione. JMO.

I see another problem with Hermione dating Percy: Percy believes that Harry has a bad influence on Ron.
And it's not that strange, after all, each time Ron does something insane like stealing flying car it's while he is with Harry. If Hermione dated Percy there would be a lot of auguring over Harry. I don't think that their relationship would survive this.

their dates wouldn't have been shown

To have the trio mature and date outside their immediate circle would require looking beyond Harry's narrow viewpoint. JKR world building is very Harry centric and superficial. She doesn't bother to put that much thought into creating a complete world.

Percy is 4 school years and barely more than 3 calendar years older than Hermione. I think the age difference between them is less than between Bill and Fleur. But Rowling wouldn't consider pairing self-insert Hermione with Percy, whom Rowling doesn't appreciate enough.

hermione/ron makes no sense- she would abuse him so, so much and he would let her because he has no confidence of his own- that relationship is doomed; in a way hermione has a lot in common with umbridge just that umbridge was on the wrong side

yay for more of your entertaining and thorough analysis- and i would not worry so much about HBP there is GoF before that and that book was just... it was
but yay for more, and maybe we can motivate you to give them all a go, and tear jkr apart when she deserves it!

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HPPS: the Tally

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