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deathtocapslock2008-10-03 09:35 am
sistermagpie.livejournal.com) wrote in deathtocapslock2008-10-03 09:35 am
HBP Chapter Ten
*Uh-oh. Settle in for the premiere episode of The Days of Our Dark Lord’s Lives.
*Ron can’t use the HBP book with Harry because he’d have to get Harry to keep reading out the instructions to him and that would look suspicious. Err…yeah, that’s it. Because it’s not like Harry could write stuff like “stir 7 times clockwise, once counter-clockwise” without being noticed. Or use magic to a) make the handwriting legible (you know that spell must exist) or b) copy the words from the book to Ron’s book in different handwriting (you know that spell exists too). Making Harry appear to be a gifted student requires a Trio team effort.
*ETA: I kind of liked the theory that the book was spelled so that it couldn't be read by anyone "but Lily's eyes" if only because the idea that the handwriting is so bad that Ron can't read this stuff at all is ridiculous.
*As much as I know Hermione’s own refusal to read the book is just a convenient way of getting on with it, I can actually buy that she’s somehow getting something out of proving she can make a better Potion with worse instructions, like that’s part of the challenge. Granted this theory falls down when Hermione’s never shown to even be tempted by the Prince’s notes, even after she can't do it.
*ETA: Seriously, this is the sort of thing that should have set Hermione off researching this HBP to find out who he was, as well as researching why his instructions work better. It's not like Hermione had a problem either doing non-Ministry stuff or doing magic outside of her grade level last year.
*ETA: Or, you know, trying out extreme memory charms on her parents with no supervision. I doubt a counterclockwise stir is going to cause as much damage as that.
*If the Ravenclaws or Slytherins caught wind of these instructions they’d every one of them have those notes copied into their own book by the end of the week and then pass them down to their housemates. But really, power like this ought to be kept in the hands of the kind of people born to hold the power. Fate will tell you which people those are.
*Right on schedule, after a few weeks of consistent, good, loyal service from the Prince Harry begins to vaguely wonder if this kid has a name.
*Trelawney wanders by a hidden Harry with her fortune telling cards—I forgot this moment was so early in the book. We get an ill omen and violence, and a dark young man who dislikes the questioner. Now that I see this scene in context again the dark young man is totally and completely Harry. (And I think the theories that he’s Snape are really pushing it no matter how young Snape is compared to Dumbledore or Trelawney.)
*ETA: The dark young man dislikes the questioner, but the questioner doesn't dislike him back unless it's because she's jealous.
*Trelawney reeks of cooking sherry by the way. She’s drunk! It’s funny!
*One can’t really blame her for drinking, though. We get this constant stream of information telling us she and the whole idea of prophesizing is a fraud, yet this year she seems completely plugged into the future, enough so that the cards practically point at Harry next to her. Is it just that it’s Harry, and thus the whole universe is constantly buzzing about him?
*Dumbledore jokes about Harry getting detention. Harry almost approaches something like regret, but then sees Dumbledore isn’t stern at all, because he’s actually, as usual, using the detention to make fun of and undermine Snape. That’s how you know Dumbledore is a
*ETA: Wow. Dumbledore surpassed even my expectations in that regard.
*Dumbledore takes Harry’s hand, they lift their robes and skip from the firm foundation of fact into the murky marshes of memory with that flighty temptress, alliteration, sprinkling fairy dust in their wake.
*ETA: Did you hear that Dumbledore is gay in a totally non-sexual way, btw?
*Actually, given that the Pensieve actually shows us what happened they are really going from the firm foundation of fact to the firm foundation of flashback, but whatever.
*Dumbledore speaks of the prophecy as casually as if Harry had asked him about the next day’s weather and not, you know, the most important thing in the history of the world ever because it’s about Harry Potter!
*ETA: Man, it's amazing to think, looking back, just how much Dumbledore used that prophecy as an excuse for randomly manipulating everybody into a plan that totally should have lost the war for them.
*Strangely, at this point I suddenly wonder if it will occur to Harry, now that he’s with the Headmaster, to let him know that the entire sixth year Potions textbook that his students are learning from is full of wrong instructions. But why would that be relevant to Dumbledore? Or Harry?
*Harry’s a little worried about the Pensieve. The last time he looked into one he saw something he didn’t like. Damn that Snape, leaving out his humiliating memories for Harry to stick his nose into!
*DD jokes about Harry actually entering the Pensieve with permission for once. He may be referring to Harry’s first accidental dip in GoF, but knowing DD it’s easy to think he’s joking about that funny time when Harry totally humiliated Snape. How many chapters till that Avada Kedavra?
*ETA: It's not like Dumbledore will have any memories to share with Harry. No, next year we'll have to move from Days of Our Dark Lord to a serialized novel about Dumbledore that repeats everything 8 times.
*ETA: Ironically, Dumbledore's life will have about as much to do with the plot as these Pensieve trips which is...very little. They're related in a small way, but all the details we get are tangential. It actually doesn't matter how Voldemort got these objects. What matters is that he's got them, and probably the Order should already be out hunting them down.
*Dumbledore again puts off telling the story of his shriveled hand, which we never really get in full. “The ring did it,” doesn’t count.
*ETA: Oh god, did I accidentally wish for all that repetitious backstory in DH by wondering about the ring? I'm sorry!
*Remind me to post my evidence that Little Hangleton is really Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, which I believe is in Wales.
*Ogden is wearing the mis-matched clothes so often worn by
*If you thought Bob Ogden lucked out on being a minor adult character in the WW by getting a dignified name, he’s also got Mr. Magoo glasses and is wearing a bathing suit and a frock coat. It’s like he’s paying with his appearance for not being named Nickleby Skittlepuss.
*Harry sees a handsome manor house—uh-oh, there must be evil afoot. (Sorry I’ve been trapped in a lot of “How evil Tom Riddle the Muggle misused the crazy witch who held his captive by being rich—just like Lucius Malfoy!” arguments lately.)
*ETA: Some manor house. No peacocks.
*Harry wonders himself why Ogden appears to be approaching the village from such a distance. Harry asking a question a logical reader is also asking is like having your dog suddenly sit up and talk.
*Harry and Dumbledore follow the dueling banjo music to the House of Gaunt, which looks a lot like the House of Black in that it’s rotting from the inside out. Get it? As opposed to the lively chaos of the Weasleys, brimming with life. How long do we give the Purebloods until they die out? ETA: Slytherin's already diluted by the epilogue, thank goodness.
*There is a dead snake on the door, proving the Gaunts haven’t completely let the place go.
*Morphin Gaunt makes his appearance by jumping out of a tree. (Women who are pregnant or nursing should not take Morphin. Ask your doctor of Morphin is right for you.) Sorry, that’s totally
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mike_smith’s joke but it’s true, Morphin does sound like some kind of prescription medication.) *The narrator helpfully explains that while one might think his multiple birth defects would be comical, they actually aren’t. Thanks, narrator. I’ll save my jokes for the boy with spina bifida down the road.
*ETA: There's something ironic the way that incest and inbreeding are so at the center of evil in the books, yet in the end the final pairings are just as incestuous. Not literally, so they don't have to worry about that. There's the healthy mix of Veela, Muggle, wizard and werewolf blood. But the idea is really still the same: you have a small group of people and they all intermarry each other. The happy ending makes the Trio's kids all cousins, and Uncle Remus's son is well on his way to marrying one of their cousins etc.
*Fandom has had lots of discussions on whether Dumbledore is a Parseltongue due to this scene, but I think his “Harry, you understand him, I’m sure?” seems to indicate Dumbledore definitely isn’t one and is just validating that Harry understands the actual words in the scene, if he can’t.
*Marvolo looks like an ancient monkey, much like Slytherin. Why do I not imagine Gryffindor heirs in similar circumstances would still look good in a lion-ish way?
*People also want Merope to be the person who does magic late in life under stress but, err, she’s clearly not a Squib. She’s just a screw up—it’s that Neville lack of confidence.
*ETA: LOL! I feel sorry for people who read the series all at one go and can never understand years of tail-chasing over random interview comments like that one. I said somebody was going to do magic later in life? Err...I did? I guess that must have been when I was thinking about that storyline that I cut out. Sorry, did you guys think it was important?
*ETA: Given the lack of interesting things going on in this book I wish it hadn't been dropped. Wait, no, scratch that. If it was included it would be in an extra 50 pages of wheel-spinning.
*You know, after a few pages of the Charming Gaunts I’m beginning to think they may represent the logical, horrible conclusion of Slytherin’s exclusive policies. Any guesses on what the natural conclusion to any of the other founder’s ideas would look like? Just kidding. I know only Slytherins produce this sort of thing. It’s already starting in this generation, after all. Draco Malfoy likes a girl with a pug face while Harry has a far healthier fixation on a girl who looks like his mother.
*Morphin gave a Muggle hives, apparently, which is against the law. I guess because the Muggle wasn't being taught a lesson. And he wasn't pudgy or something and deserved the hives. Or in the middle of exams and needing a distraction from studying.
*The Muggle’s face has been wiped clean, anyway. Which is more than we can say for Marietta. Slytherins can't do anything right.
*Tom Sr. and Cecelia go by proving they’re evil by saying, “What an eyesore, why doesn’t your father have that cleared away?” Though given Cecelia doesn’t know there’s people living in the house, which Harry himself has described as a hovel, I don’t see that what she says is a big deal.
*The real problem is everything in the valley on the other side belonging to Tom’s father. No wonder he doesn’t do the right thing and love poor Merope when the Potion wears off. It’s just because Merope's ugly on the outside, while on the inside she’s a gentle stalker who only wants love. Who does that Muggle think he is, having an equally rich girlfriend?
*Tom Riddle has got to be the unluckiest Muggle in the world. He’s handsome and he lives near the Gaunts. Well, if his family weren’t such jerks as to own half the valley, it wouldn’t have happened.
*And he is handsome, btw. Harry notices that right away. Not as handsome as his son, apparently, but he’s very handsome. Cecelia could have two heads for all we know, but Tom Riddle’s looking good!
*Harry’s Victim Detector goes wild at the sight of Merope. He not only notes that she has a name, he sort of remembers it!!
*ETA: I'm just remembering how Harry never tells anybody any of the stories he learns here in the Pensieve, nor does he ever think of them again himself while trying to find the Horcruxes.
*ETA: No, in order to do that he has to hear EVEN MORE random stories from ghosts and goblins and Voldemort's head.
*Fifteen minutes after this scene Morphin and Marvolo are carted off by the Ministry, both having records of previous Muggle attacks. And what do we learn from this? That the Gaunts were not personal friends of Arthur Weasley.
*ETA: I gotta say, I find it really hard to believe any imprisonments over Muggle attacks--including Dumbledore's father. There's just no way I can imagine this government caring if a Muggle died or was injured. I think Muggle deaths are just something they throw in if they want the person jailed for scaring Wizards.
*Harry amazes Dumbledore again by remembering Marvolo is the middle name of the guy who’s been trying to kill him for years. Well done, Harry!
*Dumbledore explains that lack of sense and a liking for grandeur is what squandered the Gaunt family fortune. So they’re not Weasley poor. They’re the bad kind of poor.
*ETA: I think it's the current economic crisis, but Dumbledore's remark sounds even more assholish to me now.
*Dumbledore explains that once Merope was free of her own tormenters, she was able to start doing some tormenting herself. However, if you squint and stand on your head you can make the moral of the story turn out to be that some men are so shallow that don’t love a girl who isn’t pretty and rich, even when she’s been so kind as to repeatedly drug him and they have nothing in common.
*ETA: Because I totally forgot the Mayella Ewell comment I was planning, little known bit of Wizarding History shows an Atticus Filch, Squib, defending Tom Riddle's abandonment of his child on the grounds that his only crime was feeling sorry for a
*Sir, Harry asks, is it important to know this about Voldemort’s past? Important enough to spend a whole chapter on just this part of it? For the next book Harry, we’ll have to hope that it is. Sir, Harry then asks, isn’t it a big coincidence that while blood doesn’t matter at all, Voldemort somehow wound up just like the grandfather and uncle he never met? Yes, Harry. Just a coincidence.
*Dumbledore says Ron and Hermione have proved themselves trustworthy—to him, of course. I wouldn’t trust Hermione as far as I could throw her, but I'm not Dumbledore. At in Hogwarts the important thing is always your personal loyalty to the Cult of Headmaster.
*Dumbledore warns Harry they shouldn’t tell stuff to anyone else. Harry reminds Dumbledore that the three of them pretty much consider themselves above everyone else in the school and so would hardly be talking to anyone else.
*ETA: Nope, they can't tell anyone else. It's really important that these three bozos be the only person trying to bring down Voldemort at all. No way competent adult Wizards could be trusted to find little artefacts with Dark Magic in them and destroy them. Or anything else, for that matter. If they knew what was going on, they might not follow Dumbledore's stupid plan to the letter.
*ETA: Thought you can't say Dumbledore asks other people to do what he doesn't do himself. He's not telling Harry half of what he needs to know either.
*No, Harry, I won’t tell you about my hand. Aren’t you satisfied with the flashbacks you got? Do you want to be subjected to more back-story? Off to bed with you!
Designated Hero
It doesn’t get more designated or random than Harry being the only person with Super Half-Blood Prince Book Decoding Powers. ETA: Oh wait, yes it does. Harry is also the only person who can do anything at all about Voldemort. He just is.
IITS
Seriously, why is Ron not taking advantage of Harry’s Teacher’s Edition textbook? Oh, iits.
Idiot World
Let’s think about the implications of this Half-Blood Prince storyline. Inheriting a textbook that once belonged to an intelligent teenager who scribbled notes in the margins is enough to get you mistaken for a Potions genius by an expert in the field. And in the 20 years since this teenager figured out that all these recipes are wrong, not a single other person has figured it out or changed the textbook.
Idiot Picture
Meanwhile, our current "genius" kid is not only unable to follow the previous genius’ logic on changing things, but continues to insist that it’s somehow wrong to use instructions that actually work.
Misdirected Answering
The entire Pensieve trip could have been told to us in a few paragraphs. But then we wouldn’t know about Bob Ogden: Magical Law Enforcement Dude!
Nut o’ Fun
Am I the only person who wonders what the last snakey did that made Morphin nail him to the door? I once read a fanfic where Draco had a stuffed snake when he was little called Soothie.
Final score: 7
Slytherin Liquid Count: Pensieve memory water, sherry, love potions.
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Cecelia is just pure evil. She just is, because she has historical ties to Tom Riddle Jr. A better person would have showed up with a can a fresh paint.
*Dumbledore explains that lack of sense and a liking for grandeur is what squandered the Gaunt family fortune. So they’re not Weasley poor. They’re the bad kind of poor.
*ETA: I think it's the current economic crisis, but Dumbledore's remark sounds even more assholish to me now.
This comment is even more interesting in light of the fact that Rowling herself went through some bad times. So I wonder if she thought she deserved that fate? In keeping with predestination whatever... or did she consider it a test before her true greatness showered her with riches?
*ETA: I gotta say, I find it really hard to believe any imprisonments over Muggle attacks--including Dumbledore's father. There's just no way I can imagine this government caring if a Muggle died or was injured. I think Muggle deaths are just something they throw in if they want the person jailed for scaring Wizards.
It looks to me as if the WW cared a lot more about these muggle protections before El Dumbledorito took power behind the scenes.
Harry is also the only person who can do anything at all about Voldemort. He just is.
He is the chosen one. And only the chosen gets chosen or chooses what or who should be chosen.
That is simple common sense.
But then we wouldn’t know about Bob Ogden: Magical Law Enforcement Dude!
It is a good thing we know about Ogden. Because it shows how much El Dumbledorito screwed up.
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This comment is even more interesting in light of the fact that Rowling herself went through some bad times. So I wonder if she thought she deserved that fate? In keeping with predestination whatever... or did she consider it a test before her true greatness showered her with riches?
No no no. There are three types of poverty in the WW:
- the Gauntish and Mundungus way, where people just deserve it, because they are on the wrong side, proving they are evil which means, that the good people can look down on them without being evil themselves for it.
- the cute Weasleyish way who are nice, because they worship the right people and adorable though incompetent apart from cooking, which means they ARE poor and will stay so (although it doesn't make any sense from a logical point of view). They serve as an admirable way to distinguish between good and bad people. The good people feel sorry for them and kind of condescending, but NEVER to their face. Whereas the bad people tell them they deserve it for unwise decisions they made - which of course only is appropriate in the first case (see above).
- the heroic completely undeserved Harry way. It only seems for some time as if he was poor, thus providing all the "poor, lost, so deprived, fending for himself in the midst of an uncaring world etc." vibes. But eventually, he comes into his own, getting all that is due him since the beginning of time.
I leave it to you where you think the author might sort herself to be...
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For some reason, I always imagined that she blamed it on her husband walking out on her. She was doing exactly what she was supposed to do, and then he had the nerve to abandon his duties as provider, leaving her in the lurch through no fault of her own - that sort of thing.
I can't claim to have a scrap of evidence for that theory, though. I mean, for all I know, she and her husband were broke even while they were married, and her divorce had absolutely nothing to do with her problems. It just fit my impression of Rowling, I guess.
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It's interesting...it seems like it probably just mirrors the way people think about money a lot of the time. Obviously if the Gaunts were Slytherins they were debauched aristocrats who spent money and disgusting splendor while others starved, so of course they eventually lost it in a fairy-tale-justice sort of way. The Weasleys kind of conflict with that but really don't because they mean something else. They're noble poor--Arthur's held back by his high ideals and other people not being as good men as he is, right? Meanwhile the kids are all doing exceptionally well once they're out in the world. They all have fairly privileged jobs.
Elkins did that post once comparing the series to Christie and I think that's very true. The good people are the ones in the middle of society, not too rich (no artistocrats like the Malfoys who seem kind of foreign and deviant) and not too poor (like the Gaunts who also seem deviant). The good guys are firmly in the middle, sometimes dipping as low as the sons of a milkman or the cheerful bus driver and sometimes going so high as somebody like James. Not that there aren't bad people in this group too (the Dursleys) but when it comes to the stock characters JKR does have a lot of overlap with Christie.
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(Anonymous) - 2008-10-08 19:47 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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(Anonymous) - 2008-10-09 20:11 (UTC) - Expandno subject
One-time Harmony shipper here. Call us crazy but you can't tell us that there aren't parallels between Merope and Ginny with regards to longtime fixation crush and 'oppressed' home life. On the other hand, Gryffinfors are never stalkers, regardless of how persistently or ruthlessly they pursue the objects of their affections. Here's looking at you, James Potter.
*sigh* This series started off so great. It's such a shame that now that it's over, it's glaringly made of fail.
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(Anonymous) 2008-10-03 06:10 pm (UTC)(link)Hmm, actually a similar situation exists today in biochemistry, molecular biology, histology, etc. There are instructions for practical technics in the textbooks and those usually are older, more elaborate and more fiddly. Not wrong as such, but certainly often difficult to make work, for the unexperienced.
Then there are experimental protocols from publications, which are newer and have some improvements, but are very abbreviated and incomplete.
And each lab has it's own improved protocols, which are usually robuster and easier to make work than either of the above. If the improvements are substantial enough they may become publication-worthy in their turn and eventually make it into the manuals. Etc.
So, this situation is certainly realistic enough.
As to why Snape didn't write his own textbook - I used to think that when he was a DE he hoarded his knowledge in order to make himself irreplaceable and that he tried to keep his brilliance under wraps once he went over to DD, to give himself an edge against Voldy and the DEs. So that he could claim that his assignments took longer than they really did or fool them with substances of his invention, etc.
But that was when I imagined that Snape's undercover work was actually important and saved lives.
Now it just seems like yet another incongruity, since Snape clearly craved recognition and that would have given him some, in his professional circles.
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(Anonymous) - 2008-10-04 09:39 (UTC) - Expand(no subject)
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But it's Harry. Who can dislike him, except jealous people or evil ones, like V? Hm, may be in JKR's mind V was jealous of Harry's general awesomeness too? *is frightened at the thought*
I know! Not being jealous is the greatest sign how evil & twisted he has become.
*Strangely, at this point I suddenly wonder if it will occur to Harry, now that he’s with the Headmaster, to let him know that the entire sixth year Potions textbook that his students are learning from is full of wrong instructions. But why would that be relevant to Dumbledore? Or Harry?
How can it be relevant to D in the middle of the war? I guess D was bright enough to improve instructions like Snape too, and similarly decided against giving the knowledge to other students.
*Remind me to post my evidence that Little Hangleton is really Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, which I believe is in Wales.
What is this word? Did you make fun of fannish theories of placing Little Hangleton in different places?
*How long do we give the Purebloods until they die out? ETA: Slytherin's already diluted by the epilogue, thank goodness.
Why do you think so? Because Crabbe died? He was just one person. Because Harry & his friends changed the corrupt Ministry? Don't worry, "Evil is forever\In good times and despair" (have just found the lyrics), like Umbridge types in the Ministry. Otherwise, Harry's sons won't be able to follow in his footsteps & become Aurors like dad.
*Morphin Gaunt makes his appearance by jumping out of a tree. (Women who are pregnant or nursing should not take Morphin. Ask your doctor of Morphin is right for you.) Sorry, that’s totally mike_smith’s joke but it’s true, Morphin does sound like some kind of prescription medication.)
It's almost the name of the drug. It even sounds the same, only without "e" in the end. From wiki:
"Morphine (INN) (pronounced /ˈmɔrfiːn/) is a highly potent opiate analgesic drug and is the principal active agent in opium and the prototypical opioid. It is also a natural endocrine product in humans and other animals. Like other opioids, e.g., diacetylmorphine (heroin), morphine acts directly on the central nervous system (CNS) to relieve pain, and at synapses of the nucleus accumbens in particular. Morphine is highly addictive when compared to other substances; tolerance, physical and psychological dependences develop very rapidly."
*ETA: LOL! I feel sorry for people who read the series all at one go and can never understand years of tail-chasing over random interview comments like that one. I said somebody was going to do magic later in life? Err...I did? I guess that must have been when I was thinking about that storyline that I cut out. Sorry, did you guys think it was important?
I do feel sorry for them. Being is fandom has been so much fun for me. They will never know the excitement of waiting for the next book to discuss with other fans all over the web, the fun of making insane theories which can suddenly turn true (I thought you were joking on some level all along about D manipulating Harry), discussing JKR's sometimes unintentionally hilarious interviews...
*ETA: I gotta say, I find it really hard to believe any imprisonments over Muggle attacks--including Dumbledore's father. There's just no way I can imagine this government caring if a Muggle died or was injured. I think Muggle deaths are just something they throw in if they want the person jailed for scaring Wizards.
D's father could be like D in trying to pass new policies and being hated for that, even though, the books don't support that.
More likely solution: the government couldn't care less if some Muggles died. However, endangering the secrecy of the wizarding world is another matter altogether.
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This is a sign of my brain being strange. When I was first doing this recap there was some essay or something that people were referencing all around about how Snape was from Yorkshire based on clues in Spinner's End. That's why here and earlier I was making a joke about how I had a theory about how it was in some place totally inappropriate.
Here I'm--strangely--quoting an old SNL sketch about a boy named Simon who did a TV show from his bathtub in England. When he would take letters from children at home he would always say where they were from, and they would be from towns with exaggerated English names like "Croton-on-Thorax." And there was one that had a name like this which Simon "believed was in Wales." Because Welsh names sometimes look like fifty consonants strung together. So I guess when I was writing here I was combining the two things in my head. That word is the name of an actual town in Wales!
Which tells us all that I am strange.:-)
Why do you think so? Because Crabbe died?
JKR said in an interview that Slytherin was "diluted" at the time of the epilogue. It was an interesting word to use given the obsession with blood purity etc. in the books.
I admit, as much as fandom probably make me want too much from the books, some of the thoughts fans had were so interesting I feel like they really did make the experience of reading better.
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(Anonymous) - 2008-10-05 18:30 (UTC) - ExpandPart One
While you’d imagine that Hermione would lap up all new sources of knowledge, I think it was in character here (well the character needed for this book) Firstly, it hadn‘t been tried and tested and deemed appropriate, it was just a former pupil scribbling notes. Then came the shock when she realised that this former pupil was not only smarter than her, but that Harry (ironically) instantly respected and paid attention to him/her - more so than he did Hermione, as he ignored her and kept on using it. She’d feel threatened in her tiresome, narrow minded way. Good times. Pride would overcome her curiosity, and the 56 months not talking to Ron we’ve got to put up with soon, proves that she clings to that big time. (I used to *love* Hermione! Sob.)
I agree that she should have researched who the Half Blood Prince was. It’d have given her something to do when she was sulking in the library when Ron was getting his. She seemed more interested in criticising the HBP, saying he/she couldn’t be trusted and being smug when Harry got into trouble over Sectumsempra. Maybe I’m being unfair, but I got the impression throughout that her ego/proving herself to be right was the priority, not helping Harry - surely her only true purpose in life.
Is prophesying supposed to be a fraud? I mean Firenze is respected isn’t he? I thought it was only Trelawney who was the fraud? And if even she could come up with a handful of genuine prophecies, then surely there must be a handful of truly capable ones, like her famous ancestor. I thought that’s why she drank, because she didn’t have the gift, which was in the family. If no-one else did, what did it matter if she didn‘t?
It’d have been great to have a new budding Seer, giving a few clues, having a few visions, but conveniently not in control of their abilities. My friend and I were *convinced* that Luna, who was so vague and ‘different’ would turn out to also have descended from Cassandra Trelawney. She’d start to see flashes from the future, and hear voices from the past. Then JKR would cunningly weave her sub-plot into Books 6 and 7, to form a rich and detailed picture of how different forms of magic could work together in order to thwart the…..oh WHO am I KIDDING? The Lion-hat was as good as it got.
Re: Part One
Hermione's reaction to the book is, I'd say, a bit like her reaction to the twins' stuff. She always puts their creativity down because it's for jokes even though it's obviously advanced. In OotP there's a moment, I think, where she almost slips into admiring it before she covers it up again.
And of course I never have a problem with Hermione being insecure if she's not helping everyone. I did a post on that once about how in OotP especially Hermione is constantly going between helping and sabotaging everyone. I don't think all of it is intentional on JKR's part, but there's a really pattern of Hermione making things difficult while pulling the strings. Which makes sense for her character and shows up pretty early. It's sometimes important (especially in CoS and PS) for Hermione to be the type of person who hangs onto information for as long as possible because she has to be the one that knows the most.
Prophecy is sometimes said to be a fraud. I mean, Trelawny's class doesn't really seem to be just about her being bad, it's a joke on all fortune-telling (with ditzy girls believing in it and Hermione pointing out it doesn't work--is that Hermione being "closed-minded"? I'm not sure...it's hard to believe it is given that we know Trelawny really is a fake and Harry and Ron fake their way through classes and nobody can tell the difference). Then Dumbledore's whole thing about the prophecy is that it's only true because Voldemort believed it...even while he himself is basing his whole plan on it.
Re: Part One
She did. Once Harry realized that the HBP couldn't have been his own pureblood father he didn't *care* who he had actually been. It was Hermione who grabbed hold of the rope and wouldn't let go.
Re: Part One
Re: Part One
Part Two
As for the Order, Remus talked to the Werewolves, Bill talked to Goblins, Charlie probably talked to Dragons and what was the point of it all? Oh well, at least Hagrid found Grawp! She should have beefed up their role. As we only saw Harry’s point of view, there was no need to go into any detail as to the exciting things they were doing. The Trio and Harry/Dumbledore could have a few hushed conversations about daring rescues, foiled assassination attempts and their consequences, in order to make The Order seem all hard and frightening. I don't remember anything like that happening. It’s dull off page, I know, but in HBP at least, JKR had an excuse. Harry was at school, so couldn’t really do anything. Unlike in DH when Harry was *out* of school and responsible for winning the war. *Then* she moves the action to Hogwarts, while he vegetates in a tent. Clever planning.
JKR did overdo the whole Wizards can’t dress like Muggles - I could understand if they didn’t care what Muggles thought, but he was genuinely trying to fit in. Sigh. Any Britons reading should reference Tim Westmacott from ‘Bargain Hunt’ in his summer wardrobe. That's a suitable way for Wizards to dress when trying to look ordinary in Muggle situations.
I’ve said before that I didn’t mind double standards, or bad behaviour on the part of the ‘good’ side, as long as it was eventually addressed, and lessons learnt. But no, Harry, Hermione, the twins - they all got away with terrible things and we were supposed to admire them for it. Unforgiveables, mind rape (of your *own* *parents*), endless bullying (with physical consequences) - all fine as long as you wear Red and Gold, but worthy of the wrath of the author in other people. I admit Ron had endless payback for his wrong doings, but as he never learnt the lesson, that was silly too. At least JKR didn‘t expect us to admire him for his faults (which didn‘t match those of the others - second rate to the end). And I haven’t even mentioned everyone’s favourites, Dumbles and B*tchface.
Harry is the chosen one - for crying out loud. I still wish it came out at the end that Dumbledore wanted them to keep it quiet for fear (as you’ve put it) that The Order wouldn’t follow his plan to the letter. Mrs Weasley or Remus might be unwilling to sacrifice Harry ‘pawn’ Potter. Tough luck - Dumbles wants him dead (sadly not buried). It’s not much of a reason, but the point is so important, it surely deserves a stab at an explanation.
You never know, maybe the Order could have come up with some other plan. Instead of hunting the Horcruxes, perhaps they could persuade some Dementors to suck out the main part of Voldemorts soul from his body. Then he’d surely live for eternity in that hideous soulless state that they all fear. Never mind, they can use that on the next 'Darkest Wizard of all Time'.
Re: Part Two
Still, when you look at it in the end, none of this was essentially to the plot at all. I hear people talking about the movie and saying how that was the "whole plot" of the book but it really isn't. It's an interesting way to hang around, but it never goes anywhere since none of this stuff is at all essential to destroying the horcruxes. Dumbledore could literally have just told Harry that he thinks Voldemort has these things that are artefacts etc. This stuff seemed interesting because, at least for me, it seemed like the psychology was going to be important. We had to see what Voldemort did because that would show his weakness, what he was really after. Instead it didn't even give Harry the slightest idea of where to look for the damn things, and he mostly relied on the mind link.
But then, I honestly thought this book was setting up so many things. I totally thought in the end it was going to be about a reversal. Not the kids learning that they were really the bad guys or whatever, but seeing how their own behavior was often just as cruel or thoughtless blah blah blah...well, you probably know what I expected and totally didn't get. So you wound up with the obvious question of why they built their school with a bigoted house that they kept around just to regularly beat down again.
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I think it's organic Dumbledore... er, Demerol.
Any guesses on what the natural conclusion to any of the other founder’s ideas would look like?
Since our principle Gryffindors are represented by deer, how's this Irish Elk? (http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Irish_Elk_Side.jpg) Its antlers, its pride, were probably its downfall, too.
*Remind me to post my evidence that Little Hangleton is really Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch, which I believe is in Wales.
Yup, in Wales. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Llanfairpwllgwyngyllgogerychwyrndrobwllllantysiliogogogoch) And I'd love to see your evidence! :D
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Re: delurks
I remember there used to be a lot of discussions about whether Hermione was a genius or not...I just could never really think of her as that given things like this. Not because Hermione seemed stupid--obviously she's not. She can remember and understand and use tons of information. But her interest in intellectual things is always firmly limited to practical things for school and Harry. She states it in PS: It's just books and cleverness and that's nothing compared to what Harry's got. Whatever that is.
I forgot about that interview posted recently where JKR says Hermione lacks intellectual curiosity--unlike Harry and Ginny.
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(Anonymous) 2008-10-04 12:57 pm (UTC)(link)Fortunately, this has all now been explained for us. The thing is that Hermione lacks intellectual curiosity. Unlike Harry and Ginny who are soulmates.
It's in JKR's Head! That makes it canon!
Fandom has had lots of discussions on whether Dumbledore is a Parseltongue due to this scene, but I think his “Harry, you understand him, I’m sure?” seems to indicate Dumbledore definitely isn’t one and is just validating that Harry understands the actual words in the scene, if he can’t.
And again, we now know the answer to this: Dumbledore isn't a Parselmouth, he just *speaks* Parseltongue because he's Very Clever.
- Dan Hemmens
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It would be if she'd paid more atttention to "show-don't-tell". Now, it's too often "tell-(in-interviews-)but-don't-show"
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Man, it's amazing to think, looking back, just how much Dumbledore used that prophecy as an excuse for randomly manipulating everybody into a plan that totally should have lost the war for them.
Um, you mean the plan of leaving everything to chance? Seriously, what WAS his plan? For Harry to find the Horcruxes on his own without instruction when he, the greates wizard ever, couldn't do it in (at least, counting from the diary onwards) three years? And nearly got killed in the process of destroying one of them? I suppose he just thought it might kill two flies at once if Harry got himself killed while destroying a Horcrux - but what about the others? Sure, in fact everybody could do those, but then why limit it to the trio? Imagine Hermione getting killed with the second Horcrux - does DD really believe in Ronnikins to find and destroy the rest? And IF, by some very lucky coincidence, the trio DID find all the Horcruxes and destroyed them and lived to tell the tale - how were they supposed to know about the necessity to bump off Harry as well? How did DD make sure Snape lived long enough to tell Harry about it? To say nothing of all the Deadly Hollows...
to let him know that the entire sixth year Potions textbook that his students are learning from is full of wrong instructions. But why would that be relevant to Dumbledore? Or Harry?
Correct. It's not as if this was a school, after all. Or as if education mattered ever. Really good and advanced people have their own personal encyclopedia on legs with them. That's all they need.
How many chapters till that Avada Kedavra?
There, there, don't fret. But I have to remind you that shortly after that we shall be in for that funeral of doom, so maybe you shouldn't be too eager...
I want a fic about Nickleby Skittlepuss, a squib who totally kicks the trio around by applying simple Muggle technology!!!
*Morphin Gaunt makes his appearance by jumping out of a tree.
The looks of men sitting in trees or jumping down from them have definitly gone down the drain since the GoF movie!
Word on the wrong and right way of incest in Potterverse!
Any guesses on what the natural conclusion to any of the other founder’s ideas would look like?
That's an interesting question. A guess out of the top of my head might be:
- Hufflepuffs
don't ever change. They are so down to earth I'd not be surprised if they mixed with garden gnomes once in a while. (And second rate heroes on a good day)
- Ravenclaws
Die out. I mean they seem to be the celibate type in the long run: Michael Corner gets dumped. Cho gets dumped. Luna never seems to get any as well. Flitwick might need really strong persuasion to interest any female apart from goblins or house elves. So, yes. Dying out.
- Gryffindors
Marrying their mothers in a healthy non-incestous way or dealing with dragons (which may be the same thing)? Not sure about them.
Though given Cecelia doesn’t know there’s people living in the house, which Harry himself has described as a hovel, I don’t see that what she says is a big deal.
Another example of Rowling's take on morals which seems to say: It is totally o.k. to look down on poorer, uglier, drunken, or foreign people, but you never say it out loud.
Am I the only person who wonders what the last snakey did that made Morphin nail him to the door?
I supposed it was meant as some kind of totem animal, the House of the Snake, you know.
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Right on schedule, after a few weeks of consistent, good, loyal service from the Prince Harry begins to vaguely wonder if this kid has a name.
You know, when Harry's a top auror revolutionizing the department and all that, he'll probably be the same sort of boss as Crouch Sr., calling his subordinates by the wrong names.
Dumbledore takes Harry’s hand, they lift their robes and skip from the firm foundation of fact into the murky marshes of memory with that flighty temptress, alliteration, sprinkling fairy dust in their wake.
The thing is, gay or not, Dumbledore never used to talk like that in earlier books. Again, I definitely remember being thrown out of the book for a second by his, uh, extravagant manner in that scene. This is one of those places where I'd love to know why JKR wrote it that way. Why did she suddenly decide to have him sound so very...I can't find words for it, but, well, like that?
No way competent adult Wizards could be trusted to find little artefacts with Dark Magic in them and destroy them.
That's because there are no competent adult wizards in this series. Oh, there are a few who might look competent from a distance, but trust me, the nearer they got to being main characters, the less competent they'd become; if they couldn't be made retroactively stupide, then they'd be slapped with incapacitating personal emotional issues. It's like the plot is a vortex of competence-suck.
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Which you'd actually think would make him a bad auror, really. If we're talking about the police force, we're talking about an extremely unobservant cop who usually can't imagine motives outside his own. There's really nothing about Harry at all that indicates he'd be good at solving crimes. The ones he solved in canon fell into his lap and he just had to be brave and fight. Most of the detective legwork was usually done by Hermione.
if they couldn't be made retroactively stupide, then they'd be slapped with incapacitating personal emotional issues.
LOL! So true.
The Dumbledore think is a little funny. There is a different feel to this than there is to the "oddment, tweak" bits in PS.
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(Anonymous) - 2008-10-10 11:42 (UTC) - Expand