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deathtocapslock2008-10-10 09:34 am
sistermagpie.livejournal.com) wrote in deathtocapslock2008-10-10 09:34 am
HBP Chapter Eleven
*The title sounds much dirtier than it is, but probably is still better than "The Chapter Where Hermione Cheats and Ron Gets Emasculated—Again!"
*ETA: Actually, looking back, this might have been the title for the entire series. Imagine the collector box sets--they could have Ron and Harry sitting around drinking beer in Hermone's giant hand, surrounded by snapshots of Hermione figuring things out for them, re-writing their homework, cooking their food, doing their laundry...
*Classes have become really difficult, with even Hermione having to ask for instructions once or twice in Transfigurations. You’ll just have to trust us on this because honestly, how is the author supposed to make pointing a stick and saying a word complicated? Maybe the words have more syllables now. It’s not like they could be doing something like theory. Theory is for cowards.
*Non-verbal spells are now expected everywhere, so I guess it’s not really a Dark Arts thing, though it is a little odd that Harry has apparently never noticed that non-verbal spells are so widespread. Wait, what am I talking about? This is Harry.
*They're expected everywhere, but does Harry ever actually master them? Or is his inability a sign of his great integrity?
*One result of their having more studying to do everyday than any student since the beginning of time even though many of their school subjects are relatively simple compared to Muggle ones, is that they haven’t been able to visit Hagrid. Damn you school work! Damn you to hell!
*Ron describes Hagrid’s teaching in realistic and unflattering terms. Ron, unlike me, is not then subjected to endless fanwank about how he’s really a fine teacher anyone would want, and especially better than Snape, and that he’d be winning awards right now if it weren’t for that Malfoy kid not listening to his great instructions that one day three years ago. ETA: Heh. I must have written that after a particularly long Hagrid-defense thread somewhere!
*Hermione, meanwhile, exposits the much more important information that Harry is the dishiest boy in school. No, this does not mean Harry will be giving up his title of underdog leader of a band of outcasts. He’s dishy enough for both roles thank you very much! See how his face is getting hot?
*ETA: Not that Hermione finds Harry hot at all. She cleverly figured out her love interest in the first book and has stuck to him every since.
*ETA: Actually, while that last comment is true imo, it never really bothered me because I always got a mother/son vibe between the two of them, like Hermione was the author's stand-in and Harry was her fictional child. Though considering JKR married a Harry-lookalike, maybe that shouldn't have killed the ship for me!
*The werewolf-spy storyline fairy zips through the chapter, and Harry remembers Lupin exists long enough to note he’s not started writing to him when he never has before. Honestly Remus, did those six words you exchanged with Harry in OotP mean nothing?
*ETA: I'm just going to pause and laugh here at Remus. Just in general. I mean, think back at his role in PoA. Who knew his fictional destiny was to be made of fail for Harry?
*The Owls arrive bearing new Potions books and defying all laws of physics, not that anyone cares. Magic totally pwns gravity.
*Meanwhile, Hermione is defying all laws of common sense and the brainiac code by looking scandalized at Harry’s switching the book covers instead of looking scandalized at the idea of getting rid of the book with all the good notes in it. I know Hermione’s supposed to be gifted, but gifted at what I’m just not sure.
*Btw, in American schools (at least in mine) we generally cover our books in brown paper so Harry wouldn’t have had to switch covers. Do they not do that in other places? /cultural exchange moment
*Harry knows a spell to remove book covers. Did he actually look that up? Or was that in the Prince’s book too?
*Oh, and did we mention there’s a war on? Yeah, every day the newspaper brings more grim news, everyone’s really distracted by it. Honest. Ron’s totally got to be determined to sound so casual.
*ETA: I guess there was a trade-off here. This year the rest of the world will suffer through the war while the Trio sits around worrying about who they're dating. Next year the Trio will fight the war by themselves and everyone else will be ordered to sit around worrying about who they're dating.
*I love the way the Prophet identifies Stan the same way he’d be identified in the book: Conductor of the popular wizard transportation, the Knight Bus. So there’s only one Knight Bus and Stan’s the only conductor? Where would the man find time to be a Death Eater? He’d need a shelf of Time Turners just to cover Westminster during rush hour.
*Harry says there’s no way Stan’s a DE—he’s a spotty youth! Given what Harry’s just been doing with his Advanced Potions, you’d think he’d know not judge a book by its cover, but no.
*ETA: Also given what we know about DEs the fact that Stan is physically flawed and bungling should put him at the top of the suspect list right off.
*Eloise Midgen’s been withdrawn from school by her father. She’s also spotty. Maybe he thought that made her more of a target.
*Ron reminds everyone that Hogwarts is the safest place in England. At least it was until it met its match in…Señor Draco. *strums guitar*
*Harry realizes he hasn’t seen Dumbledore in a week. Remember last year when he was all pissy because Dumbledore was ignoring him? Jeez, they get tall and fanciable and fickle comes soon enough!
*ETA: Next year he'll suddenly remember that he's obsessed with Dumbledore.
*Hermione says things are “getting serious” and Harry remembers a really horrible incident when Hannah Abbot learned her mother’s been found dead. He hasn’t seen Hannah since, but he’s probably thinking about her a lot. You wait; once she comes back the Chosen One is going to make her feel better. ETA: I guess he left that up to Neville. *cue porn music* (It's Hannah Neville supposedly marries, right?)
*ETA: After reading the last book that last one is even sleazier. Throwing in random students having their parents murdered to make it seem like this war isn't just a huge Tri-Wizard Task for Harry alone to prove himself heroic.
*Lavender smiles at Ron, who begins strutting, something Harry has never done. But Harry doesn’t laugh because Ron didn’t laugh when Harry got his nose broken, which is totally equally funny.
*Hermione gets cold and distant, which Ron deserves for having responded to a girl showing something like affection. Hermione’s been priming this pump for years with the constant bickering; she won’t have Ron start getting used to that sort of thing!
*Since this is Potterverse it will not occur to logical Hermione that perhaps Ron responds well to someone acting like they like him.
*ETA: Actually, that one's not really a criticism. Given her character and the books so far, it really is impossible for Hermione to think of herself as doing anything wrong here, and I like that she's keeping herself from getting what she wants because she can't act any other way. Unfortunately the last book will, as usual, need to reveal a good guy and a bad guy here, so rather than Ron and Hermione understanding each other in a satisfying way, we'll just have Ron allegedly get something right and have Hermione snog him in response.
*Lots of first years at the try-out for Quidditch. Who do they think they are, Harry Potter? First years aren’t allowed to play! Well, at least they’re clutching dreadful school brooms instead of Nimbus 2000s that fell out of the sky and into their laps.
*Harry notes that McClaggen wasn’t at try-outs last year since he was in the infirmary for eating a lot of doxy eggs on a dare—which I’m sure happens about once a week in Gryffindor.
*McClaggen refrains from reminding Harry that unlike everyone else he didn’t have to try out last year, or the year before etc.
*Harry wonders if McClaggen expects special treatment because they’re Old Sluggy’s favorites. As if Harry would give special treatment to Old Sluggy’s favorites. Try becoming one of Dumbledore’s favorites, Cormac, and then we’ll talk!
*You know, I'm going to agree with Draco here. Slughorn really does seem like a has-been who's too out-of-touch to convincingly impress students and be surrounded by celebrities.
*Then there’s a group of the silliest girls Harry’s ever encountered, which is no mean feat given that almost every single girl Harry’s ever encountered outside of the three he chooses to be speak to have been silly. They must be flying upside-down and wearing their underwear on the outside or something.
*The fifth group was Hufflepuffs. I admit it, this makes me laugh. It’s not fair, but a well-placed “stupid Hufflepuff” joke just works. It’s probably the name.
*Btw, since Harry doesn’t say the Hufflepuffs are silly or girls, I now have this wonderful vision of ten lovesick Hufflepuff boys on the pitch who are really just trying to help Harry out of the closet and accept himself for who he is. That’s the Hufflepuff way. Go Badgers!
*Zach Smith must just want to vomit at all this, btw.
*Ginny out flies everyone, scores 17 goals and irritates the hell out of me by being an insufferable Mary Sue to boot! What, that’s it? Are you sure she didn’t also catch the Snitch blindfolded and get elected Prom Queen? ETA: This is the only thing to make me look forward to DH. Ginny II goes away.
*ETA: Actually, Ginny's begun to seem like some Potterverse version of the Moon Goddess with the three aspects. Only instead of some version of Maiden, Mother and Crone we get: She Who Is Shy, She Who Is a Mary Sue Bitchiwitch and She Who Tends The Homefires With Her Mother and Represents the Married Life the Hero Will Have After The War.
*Apparently Fred and George were brilliant as beaters. It’s in the blood, you know.
*Jimmy Peakes is a great beater for managing to raise a lump the size of an egg on the back of Harry’s head with a ferociously hit Bludger. I guess the amazing part is that he hit an iron ball ferociously into the back of Harry’s head without actually killing him on the spot.
*ETA: I think Crabbe has that talent too. Dirty Cheater.
*Has no one ever done a study linking Quidditch head injuries to the general low intelligence in this world? It might be like the Wizard versions of corsets: Oh, here's why women seem so weak, they're not actually breathing!
*Harry looks over to see if Ron’s gotten over his performance anxiety. Yes, Harry, he got over it right after Voldemort became an efficient planner and Snape let by-gones be by-gones.
*The real winner at try-outs, of course, is Hermione, who is assured that Ron owes her for his place on the Quidditch team even though Ron performed just fine on his own. You’re nothing without her, Ron! This is going to be one heck of a marriage!
*ETA: Really, the whole resolution to Ron/Hermione is a bit creepy that way, especially when you bring Harry into it. Note how Ron can't ever actually feel secure in being the one who's more right for Hermione. He gets Hermione because Harry isn't interested and Hermione inexplicably doesn't ever consider wanting Harry either. It's like the Prefects Badge again. Everyone agrees that Harry in some way is better, but because of a strange collection of circumstances it went to Ron. In fact, possibly for the same reason, both Dumbledore and Hermione thought it would be better for Harry this way because he had so much to worry about.
*Btw, you’d think hexing people at try-outs would be an obvious temptation, so much so that anyone could tell someone had done it to McClaggen. But apparently Hermione’s even ruthless by Quidditch standards.
*As opposed to Lavender who just wishes Ron luck and believes in him. This chick’s got to go.
*Oh, and if McClaggen’s telling the truth this page includes actual canon of Ginny behaving decently by giving Ron easy saves instead of taking the chance to humiliate him--perhaps this is the same impulse in Ginny that makes her love showing her compassion by being nice to Looney Lovegood and keep other people from calling her that.
*However, as McClaggen's also being compared to Uncle Vernon, and Harry says otherwise, this seems to be more an example of McClaggen being unfair.
*Hermione comes running out of the stands shouting, “I did brilliantly—err, I mean, you did brilliantly, Ron!”
*Hermione finds Buckbeak a bit scary. Why is she scared? She’s only in danger if she deserves it!
*Harry asks Buckbeak if he’s missing "him.” For the record, Buckbeak honestly couldn’t care less that the puny human who cleaned up after him in the house is gone or not.
*ETA: Harry's use of the pronoun of course refers to the undercurrent of Sirius-mourning that's been almost palpable since the book started. Oh yes. This is just how Harry mourns. Next year he'll barely ever think about Dumbledore.
*Hagrid throws a tantrum and reminds everyone he’s
*Hagrid calls the Trio ungrateful for only spending three years defending his sorry arse in class. Luckily they can distract him by acting sympathetic that the big giant spider that might have killed them thanks to Hagrid has been feeling under the weather, and pretending they would have moved time and space to get CoMC into their Timetables if they could. They're lucky Hagrid didn't show up with Time Turners for them.
*Hermione reveals that Cormac was talking bad things about Ron and, more importantly, Ginny! I didn’t remember that before! Her Confunding is totally justified now! She wasn’t cheating for Ron, she was giving him what he deserved!
*If Ginny wasn't so awesome only Harry will do you'd think she and Cormac were meant to be. They have so much in common, what with them both liking to say bad things about other people.
*Harry points out to Hermione that this is dishonest. This is probably a holdover from the Hagrid scene. There Harry had to pretend Hagrid was a good teacher; now he’s pretending Hermione’s got scruples.
*Hermione wishes Harry would come to dinner with Slughorn because she doesn’t want to go alone. Wouldn’t you just love to be Ron? Not a single one of his friends even considers telling him he’s not objectively inferior to them.
*Crabbe apparently had a shrunken head confiscated when they came into school, because that’s a Dark Object. Err…is it just Dark because he’s ugly? What do Shrunken Heads do? Did they confiscate his Marilyn Manson tee-shirt too? His Preacher comics?? (I am so loving Crabbe in this book!)
*ETA: Bwahahaha! How did I not see Crabbe's total evilness coming after I wrote I was loving him in HBP?
*Stymied, Harry gazes at Ginny for a while. Because he likes her, but he doesn’t know it. Get it?
*I'm sure the rest of the Common Room is also watching Ginny play with Arnold the Pygmy puff, because it’s such a beautiful sight. Later perhaps Ginny will let us watch her feed Arnold, her bogeys catching the light like precious emeralds.
*Poor Ron, unable to gaze at Ginny because he’s her brother, gazes at Lavender Brown, who, had she been invited to Slughorn’s party, would probably have said she was bringing Ron.
*And the chapter closes with Snape once again saving Harry by getting him out of Slughorn’s party. Bastard.
Designated Hero
And you can tell Harry’s a fair captain by the way he’s glad the try-outs were fixed!
IITS
Poor Ron must not know which end is up or down on the Quidditch Pitch. He triumphed last year, but now he's the goat again. Only he still stops every goal.
Informed Attributes
Kids should really have to study the Trio in school to learn how good friends treat each other. Lesson one: "which one of you is the loser?"
Also, the war is just oppressing everybody, really.
Misdirected Answering
Pretty much goes for the whole chapter, unless there's someone out there who really cared about who was on the Quidditch team this year.
Final score: 5
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He has never connected Godric's Hollow with Godric Gryffindor either, as turned out.
I know Hermione’s supposed to be gifted, but gifted at what I’m just not sure.
Somebody once said she's gifted at saying the most annoying thing possible at any given moment. Like when she tries to be nice to Kreacher and says the worst possible thing, something that would Lucius say if he wanted to demean the elf. I talk about praising Kreacher for doing his best while spying after Draco.
She's also gifted at making the boys' lives easier.Loved the idea of:
surrounded by snapshots of Hermione figuring things out for them, re-writing their homework, cooking their food, doing their laundry...
Somebody should draw a big picture, consisting of numerous small ones with all major scenes from the series, where she figured things out for them.
Next year he'll suddenly remember that he's obsessed with Dumbledore.
That's because he'll spend big parts of it being furious at D for leaving him without a clue, being friends with GG, not telling both of them have "deep roots" at the same graveyard... In short(it's written clearly in the books), for not loving Harry enough.
Hate and feeling pissed off have always been Harry's strong points. No wonder he dwells on the emotions in DH.
Lavender smiles at Ron, who begins strutting, something Harry has never done. But Harry doesn’t laugh because Ron didn’t laugh when Harry got his nose broken, which is totally equally funny.
Only
straight boyspathetic losers strut, when girls flirt with them.Btw, since Harry doesn’t say the Hufflepuffs are silly or girls, I now have this wonderful vision of ten lovesick Hufflepuff boys on the pitch who are really just trying to help Harry out of the closet and accept himself for who he is. That’s the Hufflepuff way. Go Badgers!
LOL! After reading the words "ten lovesick Hufflepuff boys" I thought the continuation would be "who came to the pitch, mesmerized by Ginny's dancing locks". Don't forget, Ginny is there too.
Has no one ever done a study linking Quidditch head injuries to the general low intelligence in this world?
But most people don't play Quidditch. May be they should study the effects of countless hexes and "counter"-curses kids love to throw at each other in the corridors.
In fact, possibly for the same reason, both Dumbledore and Hermione thought it would be better for Harry this way because he had so much to worry about.
Yes, Hermione could never be quite as uncritical and admiring of Harry as Ginny. She could try, but to Ginny it comes naturally. Ron, otoh, would only benefit from some criticism.
This is just how Harry mourns. Next year he'll barely ever think about Dumbledore.
But, sistermagpie, he is getting pissed at D next year, not sentimentally weeping at the thought of never seeing his face again. Harry would think of Sirius more too, if he could blame him for...er, not caring enough about Harry, for example. Then it would come naturally to him. Not the kind of mourning most fans would enjoy so.
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He has never connected Godric's Hollow with Godric Gryffindor either, as turned out.<<
I'm sorry. The whole Gryffindor was born here business just makes me very curious about what the place was called *before* Gryffindor was born there.
(Victor Hugo was born tonight!)
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I have an idea - the village was named prior to his birth and his parents decided to name their son after his birth place, not the other way around. Iirc, nothing in the books contradicts it.
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Maybe it was a family named Godric. The Godrics in the hollow.
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But most people don't play Quidditch. May be they should study the effects of countless hexes and "counter"-curses kids love to throw at each other in the corridors.
*** Word!
Incidentally, my theory is that the magic ability takes the place in the brain that mere Muggles use for common sense.
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BWAHHAHAHAAA!!!
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Harry would think of Sirius more too, if he could blame him for...er, not caring enough about Harry, for example. Then it would come naturally to him.
You're totally right!
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*** JKR said in some interview she'd like to apologise to Harry for all the hardship she put him through. What she *really* should apologise for is making him so totally dumb.
*The Owls arrive bearing new Potions books and defying all laws of physics, not that anyone cares. Magic totally pwns gravity.
***It does. Flying broomsticks, anyone? ;-)
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it#s a sign of his bravery. He'd never go for anything that gave him an unfair advantage in a fight. Striking out of the blue is a Slytherin thing! Unless it's punishment, of course. Then it isn't a fight. And needn't be fair.
Not that Hermione finds Harry hot at all. She cleverly figured out her love interest in the first book and has stuck to him every since.
No, she figured out which one was the straight boy and left it to Ginny to find out after 20 years of marriage. Serves her right for that Qudditch remark!
Actually, while that last comment is true imo, it never really bothered me because I always got a mother/son vibe between the two of them, like Hermione was the author's stand-in and Harry was her fictional child. Though considering JKR married a Harry-lookalike, maybe that shouldn't have killed the ship for me!
OMG, where to begin? Well, first of all, mother/ son vibes are an incontrovertible clue for true love in this series (Harry/Ginny Evans; Ron/Hermione Weasley). Which makes your mentioning of a Harry-lookalike (is that really true?) even more troublesome, considering Ginny is certainly the sexed up version Hermione (the author).*shudders*
*Btw, in American schools (at least in mine) we generally cover our books in brown paper so Harry wouldn’t have had to switch covers. Do they not do that in other places? /cultural exchange moment
In Germany, it depends on what your teachers tell you, but normally transparent foil is used, so you can see the cover.
Harry knows a spell to remove book covers.
LOL, I didn't remember that one. So Harry has learnt the book cover spell by the beginning of sixth year, but at the end of it still can't stop a finger from bleeding? I can see why this is the best school in all the world!
Where would the man find time to be a Death Eater? He’d need a shelf of Time Turners just to cover Westminster during rush hour.
To be honest, I wondered in the opposite direction and could never figure out why anyone would need that bus, with floo and apparating at their disposal.
Harry says there’s no way Stan’s a DE—he’s a spotty youth!
LOL! Of course not. Harry has come to expect dashing looks from the bad people! Look at Draco and Lucius and above all Tom Riddle! And the Black sisters as well. Gellert will confirm that opinion in the next book.
As if Harry would give special treatment to Old Sluggy’s favorites. Try becoming one of Dumbledore’s favorites, Cormac, and then we’ll talk!
Excellent!
Your lovesick Hufflepuff boys and the three aspects of Ginny the Awesome are made of win!!!!
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Bwahahaha! I finally feel better about that Quidditch remark! She'll get hers!
OMG, where to begin? Well, first of all, mother/ son vibes are an incontrovertible clue for true love in this series (Harry/Ginny Evans; Ron/Hermione Weasley). Which makes your mentioning of a Harry-lookalike (is that really true?) even more troublesome, considering Ginny is certainly the sexed up version Hermione (the author).*shudders*
It's true--my thinking that the couples don't have chemistry because of the mother/son vibe is proof positive they're each other's true loves. Harry's only seems marginally less this way because he never actually knew the mother he's attracted to now in Ginny.
I remember seeing a picture of JKR and her husband and her husband had messy black hair and glasses etc. It was a surprising resemblance. I think people had icons of it using it for a Harry/Lucius ship!
LOL, I didn't remember that one. So Harry has learnt the book cover spell by the beginning of sixth year, but at the end of it still can't stop a finger from bleeding? I can see why this is the best school in all the world!
To give him the benefit of the doubt I wondered if it was some generally switching spell, which it could be, but...it still makes no sense he can do that but not stop a finger from bleeding.
Thanks for the input about the book covers!
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(Anonymous) 2008-10-10 06:47 pm (UTC)(link)Yes, non-verbal spells are required everywhere. I guess that nobody except for perhaps DD and Voldy ever completed their NEWTs then, because even Snape mostly casts audibly. Also, what's the point of non-verbal casting in subjects other than DADA? To make it more difficult for oneself?
Harry notes that McClaggen wasn’t at try-outs last year since he was in the infirmary for eating a lot of doxy eggs on a dare
And of course given how rare the team openings are, nobody who wants to play Quidditch would every dream of trying for less than their ideally preferred position, right? Apart from the Great Ginny, of course.
Just like people can become "good" players without ever playing with anybody. After all, amateur Quidditch is forbidden (not like somebody like Malfoy couldn't fit in tons of pitches on his estate!) and kids who aren't on teams don't play pick-up games at Hogwarts either.
Really, if we had to suffer through all this, couldn't the games have been made into a tool of economical characterization for bit characters, so that they'd seem a bit more memorable and individual? So, that we'd, you know, care when they or their family members are killed? Of course, that would mean making the games mildly interesting and not totally about Harry, so...
Re: war, Lupin's spying, Shunpike, Le Sigh... So much potential wasted while the book was desperately padded with boring, repetitive fluff.
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***Sad, but all too true.
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My impression was, it is thinking she is opposed to, not consistency in itself. I suppose she would have liked her books to be consistent but didn't want to put in the necessary work and brain exercise to do it. Just think (no pun intended) about it:
On the Watsonian level:
- the socalled brain of the trio is repeatedly put down BECAUSE of it (mainly by Snape)
- Hermione herself states that there are much more important things in the world
- and if you look close, it is not even "thinking" most of the time, but reading and learning by heart. The first time we ever encounter anything like real thinking (IIRC) is in DH in connection with the entrance to the Ravenclaw common room
- even though Hermione is given credit for knowing a lot of things, this leaves her as essentially the servant to Harry in DH (and really before as well): it's not as if there was any notion like for instance "Well, Harry is the hero, Hermione is the brain, so let Ron do the chores of doing the cooking and the laundry!". No. It's up to her do everything for the other two.
- theory is consistently ridiculed, looked down upon (Slinkhard in OotP, History)
- the intellectual house is notable for fleeting pretty love interests and nothing more. Meaning, they are quite nice but not full blooded enough for a true Gryffindor to stick with them).
On the Doylist level:
- in a book about good and evil, there is NO definition of what these notions might be meant to confer. It has certainly nothing to do with any abstract values or a philosophical approach
- in a book where the divide between good and evil seems somehow to be linked to the question of Dark or non-Dark Art - this distincion is never made.
In short, the author lacks the barest minimum of intellectual self-discipline and integrity to keep her from contradicting herself every few pages.
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Really, if we had to suffer through all this, couldn't the games have been made into a tool of economical characterization for bit characters, so that they'd seem a bit more memorable and individual? So, that we'd, you know, care when they or their family members are killed?
I think Hannah has been vaguely positive about Harry in the past, so that's supposed to earn us her sympathy!
But yeah, the Quidditch thing is so something that JKR put in without being quite as enthusiastic as she needed to be for a convincing sport. If it's the only sport kids should play it--she has the kids somehow play it with four people earlier in the book. But really the only times people play are at school in official games. It becomes synonymous with flying as opposed to playing an actual game, so Ginny is awesome because she took her brother's brooms out of the shed. Only why would that teach her to play Quidditch? That's like saying she's a great baseball player because she ran around the block a lot or even pitched balls in her back yard.
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Which are both things that didn't really require explaining. I wonder if JKR had those spells lined up for something in DH that got dropped? Or was it just something she jotted down in her notes ten years earlier and decided to stick in?
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Of course Harry was only able to do it under the influence of the Felix potion, and there ought to have been some other way to manage it. Since as it is, it comes across as swatting a fly with a buick.
Text Book Covers in the UK
Re: Text Book Covers in the UK
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The last two years should have demonstrated them really having to stretch themselves. I remember being *totally* unconvinced by Hermione’s crazy skillz in Book 7. When did she learn to it all? Arithmancy? There was only about a month between the last two books. When they needed to access Slytherin House in Book 2, she came up with the idea of Polyjuice Potion which she'd read about, then carefully followed instructions and we *saw* her prepare it. In Book 5, they needed a way to secretly arrange meetings for the DA, so she went away and prepared those fancy coins (and the parchment to smite Harry non-believers).
By Book 7, there was no sitting down, coming up with an idea, then going away and working on it - unless it was that nonsense plan for getting into the Ministry - she just always had an answer for anything as it came up. The rot started in Book 6 - what did Hermione *do*? JKR wanted the story to go in certain directions, but no-one had to work for it anymore - things just happened when needed. It got worse, too - accio Horcrux books, anyone?
Hermione’s 'gifted' in moving on the plot. Her abilities and knowledge ebb and flow depending on what JKR needs at the time. She started off as brilliant, but insecure which was fine. The more perfect she became, the more obnoxious and hypocritical she was. Her only hope was standing next to Ginny. It’s been said a lot, but Hermione and Umbridge really are the same person - how can the author not see that?
I never mind about things like Owls carrying ridiculously large items, (or brooms flying and teleportation) - it‘s magic! Just as appalling plotting, appalling lack of regard for your own canon, appalling writing and APPALLING characterization *isn’t* magic. I’m happy to accept that magic is totally incompatible with the laws of chemistry and physics, just like ending a book series on a high is totally incompatible with JKR’s abilities.
Word on everything you said about the inability of Ron and Hermione to just get together already. I know what she was trying to do with all the bickering (I *love* Doris Day and Rock Hudson!) and it was more convincing than Remus/Tonks or Harry/Ginny, but it was a bit old here. Especially as the whole Marietta thing had put me right off Hermione, and I just wanted the whole thing over.
Some cynical types would say that JKR didn’t want to alienate those who couldn’t see Ron/Hermione coming from years before - when the books were still good - and risk them not buying Book 7 in a temper. (I agree with you, Harry and Hermione came over as platonic. The only spark I’ve seen was between the two actors who play them.) While I am *very* cynical, I think she was just being practical. If you cut out the ‘romance’, what exactly would happen in HBP? Voldemort - This is your Life, Sectumsempra and Dead Dumbles. This book rivals DH for the lack of plot. DH at least had some ‘action scenes’ at the beginning and end.
The whole Ron had to try-out again should have been cut. Harry never had to. I know it was to move the plot, but if something didn’t fit with what she’d previously written, she should have cut and rewritten it. (In which case DH would still be a year from publication). The whole love bit could have been cut by two thirds. If the book was then too small, she should have come up with MORE PLOT.
Why does Hermione *have* to go to Slughorn’s dinner? (Though I think she’d love to go without Harry and get the admiration he always insists on, despite her all doing the work.) If someone had refused to play Slughorn’s game, that would have shown some genuine integrity. Harry tried to avoid him, but that’s not the same. Ron, Neville and Luna are the characters I prefer and they weren’t invited. In fact the people who *are* invited are the most tiresome - there’s a link there somewhere.
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But in this case it really points out how little there is to learn. I think that problem is set up right away because okay, it's fine if the kind of magic they learn are just things that are metaphorical for growing up like learning how to create a Patronus or banish a boggart. But in that kind of system the magic almost has to be slower for everyone. But it isn't. It's really quick and easy magic and that makes it both hard to figure out why they don't have to learn to fight (and yet can just hold their own in ninja battles with DEs) and why anybody uses anything but Expelliarimus, the stunning spell and Avada Kedavra in a duel. We don't ever see anybody being clever in a duel by using one spell as a strategy that leads to something else. They just wing bolts at each other, a jelly legs here and a tickle spell there. It's more a comedy duel than something badass.
In fact the people who *are* invited are the most tiresome - there’s a link there somewhere.
Part of the set up seems to be just so Harry and Ginny can be uninterested because they're so above it all. So naturally all the other kids have to actually look forward to having dinner with the pervy, obese old man who talks for hours about people he knew 50 years ago.
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JKR should also have said that it took different amounts of strength or experience or thought processes for various spells - that just saying the word(s) was just the *beginning* of casting a spell. But she didn't bother - according to her, it really was just a matter of learning words over a matter of time. What nonsense.
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(Anonymous) 2008-10-10 09:51 pm (UTC)(link)I beg to differ. I could see how great reflexes and speed could have evened the field for Harry, somewhat, if he actually worked as hard at learning to fight as a star of your typical kids sports movie does at training. Some people _were_ good duelists at 18, when it was the matter of rapiers or pistols.
So, given some additional intensive training in year 6 that one would have thought DD would have been happy to organize, and strong motivation, that should be a given, I'd find it plausible if the trio could successfully measure themselves against the DEs.
As regards Voldy, there were the whole "connection" and "Prophecy" aspects to give him an edge and change the normal rules of the game. I really liked that facet of Theowyn's fanfics, where the interesting use of their mental connection allowed for victory over Voldy and moral superiority gave that very last bit needed to achieve it.
Of course, DH "solved" all this very differently...
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I guess it's that Calvinist view of the world. If you've got it, you've got it. If you haven't got it, no amount of effort on your part is going to make up for it. You can be one of the bravest men in the world, but if you weren't born into Gryffindor, you're not a Gryffindor. And, if you've got it, there's no need to work at it.
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(Anonymous) 2008-10-11 01:30 pm (UTC)(link)Sure, but even a competent, well-trained Harry would have been outmatched against Voldy. That's where additional aspects, such as prophecy, connection, Lily's sacrifice and moral superiority could have legitimately come in.
He could have been even outmatched against the more prominent DEs, having to exploit their overconfidence, to be clever about his tactics, to be helped by friends and allies, etc.
I wouldn't have wanted a super-powered Harry, but a well-trained, very motivated (survival! protection of friends! revenge!) youth of 16-18, with Harry's natural advantage of great reflexes, should have been able to believably hold his own most of the time. Ditto Hermione, who'd trump with knowledge and skill more than equal to that of most adults. To lesser degree Ron.
But a supposed savior of the world (!), who is so incompetent that he needs general dumbing down and/or heavy Deus ex machina to escape from even routine runs-in with enemies and who has no coherent plan of action, is just pathetic and irritating, IMHO.
I have to say that Harry always reminded me of the main character from a rather frightening fairy tale by E.T.A Hoffman - "Little Zaches, called Zinnober", where a fairy godmother gave to her otherwise wholly disadvantaged in all aspects godson, one gift - that whatever remarkable things were accomplished in his presence, people would attribute them to _him_ and laud _him_ ;).
I hoped that it would change as Harry grew up, but clearly in vain.
Re: Avada and use thereof in battle, I could see how it could be a disadvantage if one fights alongside allies, because in chaotic melee there'd be a very pronounced danger of friendly fire. It could also have been made more tiring/slower to cast than other spells.
But IMHO the PS notion of inflection + intricate wandwork + focus would have been wholly sufficient to make complexity gradations evident. With permanent enchantments being on the whole other level of complexity and not generally taught at school.
It would also explain people using harmless easy spells in battle if they would have been quicker and easier to cast. This concept worked very well in DnD, where one could fire off a quick low-level spell to interrupt the enemy casting of something incomparably more lethal, but slower (this tactic should have been Harry's specialty, really). Moreover wand position at the end of the spell could also dictate the quickest next move, like in fencing.
That's one of the reasons I don't buy the notion that the series went down in the later volumes. Wand movement was abandoned after PS already, so that Harry could insta-learn Expelliarmus in CoS, a spell that wasn't even necessary for the actual resolution of the book, but just to humiliate Lockhart and to arbitrarily exclude Ron from important action. Ron's downfall to being a useless, dumb side-kick happens there too. Not to mention the heavily "idiotic world" premise... Honestly I think that CoS is the second-worst book in the series after DH. But for the hype, I would have stopped with HP after it.
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But here it's like there's often just this divide between adults and kids--there's things kids can't do. That makes sense when they're 11, but once they graduate it's like...when do they learn this stuff? Harry never practices enough that he should be able to duel the way Sirius does (even though Sirius himself would have had something like 4 years outside of Hogwarts before he went to jail). The dueling club stops after CoS, they only ever practice dueling in the DA and that's more learning spells, it seems, than dueling--since it's not like Harry has practice with dueling to teach anyway.
Even when, as you say, they chucked out the whole idea of needing special wand movements. That would work for dueling. I think that was brought up here once before, the way that with special wand movements there would be another sense to dueling. One spell would follow another spell better than another. A bit like dueling with a sword where one movement would move into another. Or like martial arts.
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This remark got me thinking about some RL situations in our family. I have two children left in high school, and my second-born granddaughter, who was ten at the time, stayed with us for the spring semester last year. I'm in college working toward my Bachelor of Arts so we had three levels of schooling going on in our house at once.
Take a subject like history. We all had U.S. History within the last two years. The granddaughter got a bit of names and dates along with some background of the times. The youngest got more politics and the occasional subversive reading. I had intricacies of subversion, political intrigue, and history I completely did not recognize even though some of the wars/battles I had heard about from people involved or directly affected. The material was essentially the same, but the emphasis was different and the depth was different and dependent upon what had been learned before. It is more like a spiral than levels of learning, really, like a circular ramp rather than stairs (imagine the Guggenheim).
I thought, without actually understanding it at the time since it was before our Semester of the History Spiral, that this would be what was done at Hogwarts. The lower classes would provide a base which was built upon by the higher classes, not rising straight out of them but leading to them as they wrapped around to the same material only on a higher level.
NEWT level classes would delve deeper into the intricacies of certain aspects of each subject in the same way a history major might look closely at Napoleon's rise and not at Stalin's social policies. Only students who took a NEWT level class would specialize in that particular subject to the point of perhaps going on to being a Potions master or a Transfiguration master or into any one of a number of professions (healing, clothing design) which use those subjects.
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Instead, this is where my appreciation for the books started to really sour because I realized I really disliked Hermione and Harry, and reading books about characters you don't like (but the author does!) just isn't that fun in the end.
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This has always bothered me more than anything else about Hermione. She's not an intellectual at all; she's just a tool of The Man. I think this is probably why Snape hates her so much.
sistermagpie: *Btw, in American schools (at least in mine) we generally cover our books in brown paper so Harry wouldn’t have had to switch covers. Do they not do that in other places? /cultural exchange moment
I assumed it was to prevent Slughorn from noticing that the book he got back was in much better condition than the one he lent out. You usually have to take off the brown paper covers when you turn the book back in.
And if Harry hadn't taken the brown paper off, Slughorn might have done it himself so he could eat it. Or something.
sistermagpie: *Harry notes that McClaggen wasn’t at try-outs last year since he was in the infirmary for eating a lot of doxy eggs on a dare—which I’m sure happens about once a week in Gryffindor.
When I was in high school someone named Donnie ate part of a shark soaked in formaldehyde for two dollars, and offered to consume the rest of the shark for two hundred. He was taken to the hospital and told that he had sustained no immediate damage but could conceivably develop cancer in later years.
This triggered a furious debate all over the school: People who didn't know Donnie personally thought he was an idiot and deserved what he got. People who did know Donnie personally knew he was an idiot and said he couldn't be held responsible because he had the maturity of a three-year-old.
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Hopefully, they said that without really thinking what they were saying. I can't imagine wishing cancer on anybody for being stupid. For killing somebody, yes, but for being stupid and hurting himself? May be he didn't know the shark was soaked in formaldehyde, so it wasn't that stupid.
Personally, I felt very angry at the person, who offered him to eat that and for others who stood and did nothing, if it was in presence of other people. Imo the person offering should have been taken to police. Btw, not only he was at least as idiotic (imo more so, what if something happened to Donnie?), but also cruel.
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*Non-verbal spells are now expected everywhere, so I guess it’s not really a Dark Arts thing
This sounds like another fandom theory that I wasn't around for. Was non-verbal magic once speculated to be Dark?
...they haven’t been able to visit Hagrid. Damn you school work! Damn you to hell!
...aka "The author doesn't know what to do with the character any more." Really, she should have just had him move to France to pursue Madame Maxime--unsuccessfully, if she was bent on showing that he wasn't worthy to marry and reproduce, but anything to get him out of the way.
*Ron describes Hagrid’s teaching in realistic and unflattering terms.
*shakes head* And I remember when I thought "Hagrid learns to teach after a rocky start and becomes a respected member of the Hogwarts faculty, thereby erasing the disgrace of his expulsion" was going to be a subplot of the series.
*ETA: I'm just going to pause and laugh here at Remus. Just in general. I mean, think back at his role in PoA. Who knew his fictional destiny was to be made of fail for Harry?
"Dost thou not laugh?"
"No, coz, I rather weep."
Why did JKR have to bring back my favorite character only to ruin him?!
*The Owls arrive bearing new Potions books and defying all laws of physics, not that anyone cares. Magic totally pwns gravity.
I can't say this bothers me. If you're going to have a fictional universe, then magic can pwn gravity. And it was hinted in PoA that wizarding pets are not quite the same as their mundane equivalents.
*Btw, in American schools (at least in mine) we generally cover our books in brown paper so Harry wouldn’t have had to switch covers.
They did?? I went completely through the American school system in the 1970s and 80s, and we never once covered any of our books in anything, to the best of my remembrance.
This year the rest of the world will suffer through the war while the Trio sits around worrying about who they're dating. Next year the Trio will fight the war by themselves and everyone else will be ordered to sit around worrying about who they're dating.
I don't know whether to ROFL or cry. It's just too, too horribly true.
*The real winner at try-outs, of course, is Hermione, who is assured that Ron owes her for his place on the Quidditch team even though Ron performed just fine on his own. You’re nothing without her, Ron! This is going to be one heck of a marriage!
And this is the moment when I stopped liking Hermione. I know, I know. Nobody on this group will understand why I didn't turn against her in righteous indignation during OotP. I can only say that I think I managed, through sheer luck rather than skill, to read OotP in the way JKR intended--to take seriously the things she wanted me to and to laugh off the things she wanted me to. HBP is where JKR's opinion and mine diverge. I always thought Hermione would save her cheating for occasions when something important was at stake. I do not think that getting Ron a place on the quidditch team qualifies as "something important." It makes me feel rather ill to realize that JKR probably saw this as a cute example of Hermione taking care of Ron by stealth, like Col. Brandon handing Marianne bowling balls in the Emma Thompson S&S movie.
Also: I simply can't feel sorry for Ron over Hermione doing things for him. I might if he ever showed any signs of wanting to accomplish things on his own, but the fact is, he loves being able to get Hermione (or sometimes Felix Felicis) to make him look good with no effort on his own part.
This is just how Harry mourns. Next year he'll barely ever think about Dumbledore.
Would that it were so.
What do Shrunken Heads do?
Offer unfunny running commentary in broad accents, according to Cuaron.
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I think it must have been, though I don't remember it. Oh! It was probably in OotP when the guy zaps Hermione in OotP when he's unable to speak? Maybe it comes from that.
I can't say this bothers me. If you're going to have a fictional universe, then magic can pwn gravity. And it was hinted in PoA that wizarding pets are not quite the same as their mundane equivalents.
Totally doesn't bother me either. I think I was just showing off my very limited knowledge of weight ratios!
They did?? I went completely through the American school system in the 1970s and 80s, and we never once covered any of our books in anything, to the best of my remembrance.
This is why I'm always relieved when I stick in things like "at least in my school!" We did usually cover our books in brown paper so whenever I picture schoolbooks that's what they look like.
Also: I simply can't feel sorry for Ron over Hermione doing things for him. I might if he ever showed any signs of wanting to accomplish things on his own, but the fact is, he loves being able to get Hermione (or sometimes Felix Felicis) to make him look good with no effort on his own part.
Yes! See, this is just the other half of what makes the relationship so depressing to me, no matter how long it lasts. At least if Ron was ambitious he'd get something out of this. Hermione might actually get something out of it if she cuold consider herself the power behind the throne, like if Ron was Tony Stark or something. But the fact is Ron honestly doesn't care enough. He enjoys getting something for nothing but it's not like he cares so much that it makes him appreciate Hermione or keenly feel the loss. When she gets angry and withdraws her support he just continues on on his own steam, being a little less lazy.
So she doesn't even get appreciated for the stuff she does. Which would be cute if it was just that Ron was unambitious, like a guy who just wasn't going to take too much advantage of her. Then you'd get the impression of Ron being a sort of balance to her. But it's more like he'll enjoy it and honestly say hey, I didn't ask for that--you're the one who wants me to be a straight-A student or whatever.
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I lol'd. Is there anything he does that isn't massively hypocritical?
Also, "Cormac" is Irish and "McLaggen" is Scottish, it seems a bit unlikely as a name.
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