deathtocapslock | Deathly Hallows, chapter 17

Deathly Hallows, chapter 17

Bathilda's Secret

* "Harry thought of A History of Magic; the graveyard was supposed to be haunted.
Wot? Harry remembers something he has read? Must be the first time.

* Ooh, look! The Potters' cottage, which Harry has been so eager to see that he hasn't mentioned the place once in the first six books. Harry's obsessions seem to come and go according to what is convenient.

* Harry could think of many reasons not to follow Bathilda, like the fact that she doesn't utter a word, but decides to follow her anyway, like a good little idiot that he is. I'm just surprised Hermione isn't a little more careful.

* Harry the hero reassures Hermione when she's feeling uncertain about the visit to Bathilda's. Yes, of course they could overpower someone as small as her. It's not like she couldn't be under the Imperius Curse, with a dozen Death Eaters waiting in her kitchen. Or, you know, dead.

* You know, this would be the kind of time and place where Remus would have come handy. He'd have probably been a bit more cautious about walking into a house where he couldn't know what was waiting him.

* Bathilda doesn't say anything, and the Horcrux beats faster and faster against Harry's chest. No, Harry, of course you shouldn't get out of there as fast as possible and send the Order in there to look at what was going on. You just take care of everything with you superpowers.

* Oh my god, can Hermione be any stupider? Of Harry I can believe it, but Hermione letting Harry to follow Bathilda alone upstairs is sheer idiocy on her part.

* Not only is our Boy Wonder stupider than any hero I've ever encountered, he can't even handle one snake. And he is someone who is supposed to be able to defeat Voldemort? Excuse me if I'm slightly sceptical about his chances of success.

* Does anyone else find the image of Voldemort flying without a broom ridiculous? I have this image of Voldemort in tights, a gigantic V emblazoned on his chest and a cape billowing behind him in my mind. Verrrry scary.

* But Hermione, who got only an E in her Defence against the Dark Arts OWL and is presumably much worse than Harry in duelling, doesn't freeze and manages to divert the snake from crushing Harry. Go girl! Hermione-Harry 1-0.

* Oh, all right, so Harry manages to finally get them out of the house, so I guess the points stand 1-1.

* This whole episode of visiting Bathilda was an exercise in stupidity.

* Ah, a trip down the memory lane. Was it really necessary to make us re-live the night the Potters died? We know what happened quite well enough. It's this kind of unnecessary things that make these books so bloody long.

* It's interesting that not even Voldemort knew that the wand thief he was looking for was Grindelwald. I would have imagined that, after he fell, photograps of Grindelwald as a young man would have found their way to the papers. Once again the Wizarding World only knows what is convenient to know.

* I wonder, could Voldemort sense that one of his Horcruxes was near?

* Okay, so a wound caused by Nagini's bite can be healed by dittany. And the Healers at St Mungo's didn't try this all-purpose healing agent at once why exactly?

* Oh, sorry, only our heroes are allowed to know useful things. Adults are notoriously stupid and ignorant and therefore unworthy.

* Yes, Harry, you shouldn't have gone to Godric's Hollow. I'm happy to see that you recognize your stupidity. Now, if only I could trust that it had taught you something, I'd be happy.

* Of course Voldemort knew Harry would go back to Godric's Hollow. A simpleton could have worked that out.

* I hate it when Hermione becomes this blubbering wreck who flinches at the tiniest sign of an impending Harry!tantrum. I guess that's part of the reason why I ship Harry/Draco. I see Draco as someone who wouldn't put up with Harry's bullshit the way Harry's friends do.

* And the chapter ends with a pity-party. Bleargh.

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Of course, a graveyard being haunted is something anyone could guess without reading, so I'm not too impressed.

Voldemort flying does sound very much like a supervillain, yes. I suppose swirly robes would work sort of like a cape. Now if only he got sucked into a jet engine...

Of course Healers who have trained for years wouldn't know about dittany! It's super-sekrit, reserved for Our Heroes. That, or Nagini has a special easy-heal venom just for Harry.

This whole chapter was so pointless. Going to Godric's Hollow ought to have had a point.

Heh, the whole book is pointless. But you're right. Godric's Hollow is so important that it ought to have been more than just a trap. Because an idiot could have predicted that it would be a trap.

Well, yes, that goes without saying :D But this chapter seems especially designed to trick us into thinking something significant will happen, then cruelly yanking the football away.

Not only is our Boy Wonder stupider than any hero I've ever encountered, he can't even handle one snake. And he is someone who is supposed to be able to defeat Voldemort?

Fortunetaly for Harry, Voldemort is also the most stupid villain in the history of fiction, so they match.

Yes, Harry, you shouldn't have gone to Godric's Hollow. I'm happy to see that you recognize your stupidity. Now, if only I could trust that it had taught you something, I'd be happy.

Bwahaha! Harry doesn't need to learn anything! He can always trust his author to save him!

I hate it when Hermione becomes this blubbering wreck who flinches at the tiniest sign of an impending Harry!tantrum.

Especially since it's Hermione. I thought nothing fazed her? I guess tantrum!Harry must be pretty scary.

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a Snape who did not go to Dumbledore but who singlehandedly captured and/or killed the DE who tried to torture Lily Potter

Now that I would have paid to read. (Not that I didn't pay to read the shit JKR came up with.)

blurts out: Finally! It all makes sense now. Voldemort was affected by the scar, too. Thus his transformation from active, presumably competent evil mastermind of the first war to the idiot we get in DH.

quietly goes back to lurking

Ah, the mystery of ineffective Voldemort is solved!

I think we'd all love to see that version.

Fortunetaly for Harry, Voldemort is also the most stupid villain in the history of fiction, so they match.

They even throw matching temper tantrums. (No, wait, I think that was in Anya's Naked Quidditch Match. Frankly, I like Anya's Voldemort a whole lot better than Rowling's. If Voldemort must be an ineffective and ridiculous villain, then at least make him as ridiculous as possible.)

I guess tantrum!Harry must be pretty scary.

He must be. I mean, he comes across as a whining brat, but clearly that can't be the whole truth.

I hate it when Hermione becomes this blubbering wreck who flinches at the tiniest sign of an impending Harry!tantrum.

So do I. It's like she only has two modes with Harry: the super-confident boss-lady or the terrified battered wife. Okay, so that's an exaggeration, but in the later books it becomes not too far from the actual truth.

Yes, and those two roles just don't fit together. Personally, I like the boss!Hermione better, because it fits better with her earlier characterization. It's sad how many characters Rowling completely botched in the last book: Draco, Snape, Lupin, now Hermione...

I remember being annoyed that Harry says right away he wants to go to GH and then we have to wait all these months for it just so he can show up at the most sentimental night of the year.

Also, why does Hermione suddenly lose her bitch powers in the face of Harry and/or Ginny? It somehow says something weird about her given that the whole bickering thing with Ron is supposed to basically be the basis of their love. Does she just generally feel inferior to Harry so he's an authority figure to her? I could almost believe something so insulting to Hermione if she hasn't watched the kid for the past 7 years. She knows he can't even pack underwear for himself and she's saved his ass over and over but still looks up to him that much? That's weird. And also perfectly good reason for everybody to assume she must have a crush on him. (Although of course in this universe it works the opposite--Ginny's perfect for Harry because she's all sassy to him and has gotten over her starstruck phase.)

I remember being annoyed that Harry says right away he wants to go to GH and then we have to wait all these months for it

Yes, and then the visit has no point. Godric's Hollow is a trap, and an idiot could have predicted that. If the visit for GH was important enough to include, I would have wanted it to count for more than just an opportunity for Harry to be emo and Voldemort to throw a temper tantrum because the Boy Wonder got away again.

Does she just generally feel inferior to Harry so he's an authority figure to her?

It really looks like that, doesn't it? She oughtn't to, because, like you said, she knows what Harry is really like. I think it must be chalked up to Rowling not knowing what she's doing with her characters--again.

Actually, though JKR sucks hairy balls at writing romance, I see her bickering relationship with Ron as her being herself. If you can trust someone, you can let them see you at your worst. That's why I think they maybe had some sort of future. She treats Harry, however, as if he were Dumbledore - respect and awe for his amazing acheivements, gratitude for his time. Fine for Dumbles, nonsensical way to treat Harry. She's always acting around Harry - trying to appease him. That's not how I am with my good friends.

Maybe I was dreaming, or it was a fan fic where Hermione had been told from very early on to stick to Harry by Dumbledore, who was wily enough to know our hero was a dud. Now where did I get that from.....

Ginny? She's what JKR wanted to be, as opposed to Hermione who's closer (in the early books, anyway) to what JKR actually was. Therefore Hermione is forced to act out of character in order to make Ginny shine. That was the plan, but you can't polish a turd, JKR.

Hmm. I think the scared Hermione started in PoA, when Harry sided with Ron and they both made her pretty miserable. And it fits with the Hermione who had no friends in first year and cried in the bathroom about it.

But by fourth year, Hermione has apparently acquired some basic social skills: she knows what the girls are talking about, and she's asked to the Yule Ball by at least two boys.

It was in OotP that she started doing the annoying quavering whenever Harry started scowling. Supposedly he was extra angry in that book.

But you'd think she'd have enough confidence to tell him to stuff it--or simply go off with other friends.

I had this whole involved theory after reading OotP about Ron and Hermione getting togther in the summer holidays and deciding that Harry was going to be a mess, but they had better stick with him or he might turn postal. And that he might just be the "Chosen One," in which case he'd need a couple peons to look after him.

Like any celebrity.

* Does anyone else find the image of Voldemort flying without a broom ridiculous? I have this image of Voldemort in tights, a gigantic V emblazoned on his chest and a cape billowing behind him in my mind. Verrrry scary.

I thought of him like a cartoon in this scene, sitting down and driving an invisible floating car - the older the car the better, with klaxon horn and a flowery bag of groceries on the invisible seat next to him.

* Okay, so a wound caused by Nagini's bite can be healed by dittany. And the Healers at St Mungo's didn't try this all-purpose healing agent at once why exactly?

Ugh, the unreliability of Nagini's bite! Really, Snape didn't have to die any more than Arthur or Harry died. Agree with sunnyskywalker that this is just one of those super-sekrit easy-heal venoms produced only when in the presence of a designated hero.

Adults are notoriously stupid and ignorant and therefore unworthy.

Is that why Our Heroes get stupider and stupider every year as they get closer to adulthood?

* I hate it when Hermione becomes this blubbering wreck who flinches at the tiniest sign of an impending Harry!tantrum.

Probably has shell-shock and nightmares over previous Harry tantrums so the actual things leave her twitching.

Adults are notoriously stupid and ignorant and therefore unworthy.

Is that why Our Heroes get stupider and stupider every year as they get closer to adulthood?

***Yes, that must be it! You solved *the* question of the series.

Is that why Our Heroes get stupider and stupider every year as they get closer to adulthood?

Must be that. Remember when in PS they still had something that resembled brains? When Ron was still so awesome that he could quote wizarding legislation like they were the latest Quidditch results? When Harry voluntarily opened a book and seemed to enjoy learning? What did you do to them, Rowling? I want them baaaaaack!

* Harry could think of many reasons not to follow Bathilda, like the fact that she doesn't utter a word, but decides to follow her anyway, like a good little idiot that he is.
***Harry actually becomes dumber and dumber the older he gets. I get that he can't ask questions without ruining The Holy Plot, but this seems like pre-senile dementia.

* Does anyone else find the image of Voldemort flying without a broom ridiculous?
***YES!!! Why oh why oh why???

Once again the Wizarding World only knows what is convenient to know.
***Not to ruin The Holy Plot, you see

We have to excuse Harry, his stupidity and lack of curiosity is quite normal for a wizard.

Not even Dumbledore flies without a broomstick or a Thestral, so why must Voldemort do it? It hurts my brain!

We have to excuse Harry, his stupidity and lack of curiosity is quite normal for a wizard.

It's funny, really. At the beginning of the series, the WW is portrayed as this wonderful, imaginative place whereas Muggles are dull and unimaginative. But as the series progresses, it becomes evident that wizards are really quite set in their ways. The only ones who display any creativity are the Weasley twins! And when all that wizards have achieved is compared with all the Muggles have achieved, Muggles win the competition by approximately 1000000-0.

The WW really did lack imagination. That's probably why the Potters could be so complacent in the flashback scene. They couldn't imagine the worst could happen to them, couldn't imagine their security could be breached, and so they weren't prepared for Peter's betrayal or Voldemort's visit. I'm not saying they should have cowered round-the-clock. Still, they could have had some contingency plans in place or their wands at the ready.

The wizards of the Marauder era actually were inventive, if the Marauders' Map and Snape's experiments with spells are any indications... but they were dangerously independent of their future leader. Dumbledore probably lived up to his name in dumbing down the Hogwarts curriculum by hiring unsuitable teachers, to eventually instill blind obedience in his followers, and the doubters be damned.

to eventually instill blind obedience in his followers, and the doubters be damned.

That seems to be the modus operandi of the Wizarding World, from the Ministry to Dumbledore's Army. Let the Zacharias Smiths or Percy Weasleys of the world be brought low. After all, it's what they deserve.

Remember in the very first book when Percy frowns and says they usually get reasons for rules? Guess he had that beaten out of him.

- “Harry the hero reassures Hermione when she's feeling uncertain about the visit to Bathilda's.”

Why does she pay a blind bit of notice to what he says? She must know that she’s been holding this operation together for years now, why does Harry get the respect that Ron doesn’t, when he’s no more deserving? Yes they’re friends, but how on *earth* can she have the slightest respect for his instincts after the Ministry of Magic fiasco, where he persisted in ignoring her and led Sirius to his destiny behind the veil? After he almost killed Draco in Book 6? ‘Chosen One’ is just an overused name, she knows him well enough to know that. You’d hope that after he breaks the Taboo and gets her good and tortured, she’d finally drops this unconvincing timidity with, and strange awe and respect for him – but no.

It’s a really bad case of JKR forcing a character to behave in a manner which isn’t feasible. And I’m just talking about her following him to Bathilda’s, I’m not even talking about her own plot driven stupidity which leads her to let them be separated when they’ll both be on their own. Plus hearing what sounds like a hiss, jumping, but being too startled to work out what it could mean. I quite liked this chapter when I first read it, I thought it quite chilling, but even then I thought Hermione was a bit ooc. Looking back it’s ridiculous.

Honestly, this whole scene would be better if Hermione wasn’t there. Why would she think Dumbledore would leave the sword in such a blatantly obvious (and dangerous) place anyway? He’s so bloody devious and unnecessarily opaque about everything else. Harry, still angry three days after Ron left, (the months of pining were a waste of time) should have snuck out one night, planning to be back before Hermione’s next shift. (He left her unguarded to chase the silver doe, at least this time she’d have a wand). As it’s from his point of view, we’d still learn everything we needed to, hear all his ‘moving’ thoughts at the graveside, *then* he could walk into the trap. A frightened old woman begging him for help, or desperate to talk to him would still be chilling. A woman just beckoning to him constantly is a bit foolish. Did she even put her finger to her lips, as if to say “Be quiet?” especially when they were outside? That would have made a bit more sense.

Voldemort could tell Nagini to hold him, but not hurt him, then, when Harry escapes under his own steam, at last showing some virgin initiative, he can sustain most of his wounds by being splinched – due to the panic/lack of experience, as he doesn’t even have a licence. Hermione can then heal him with no ‘WTF’ from us, because she’s already healed Ron in similar circumstances. Her healing Harry’s wounds caused by Nagini, when all the MediWizards at St Mungo’s had such trouble with Arthur, makes her look like an uber Mary Sue. Her later standing by and not bothering to even *try* to heal Snape’s wounds caused by Nagini, makes her look like an uber bitch. This chapter really stitched her character up (more than she did for Snape. Ho.)

Like every other wizard, Hermione was probably just trained to follow a leader and never think for herself, unless backed into a corner without someone to follow. Being a Gryffindor, she looked to the bravest person. Harry, even though an idiot, had no scruples about rushing into danger. He all but shouted "valor" and even seemed like a rebel, way out of her comfort zone already (even though Harry later became The Man, where he no doubt continued to use Expelliarmus and Ron was stuck being his more-competent partner). Harry also had Dumbledore's stamp of approval, and when did Hermione ever question Dumbledore? No, like a good little girl, she swept up after her insipid, brave men. It wasn't really her place to assert herself, unless the target was someone non-Gryffindor.

Why was she in this chapter, where everyone involved was so diminished? Someone had to sweep up after that soft-headed galoot, Harry, once again. And he was so grateful, too, when he had to use her wand. No wonder she hates to assert herself. Hers was the thankless existence of the eternal Mom.

It's a mystery why Hermione continues to defer to Harry. Like you said, she has seen all his blunders, which ought to have convinced her that no, Harry does not know best. Rowling treatment of Hermione in the later books is humiliating to her. I used to like Hermione when she was this bossy know-it-all. True, she is that even in the later books, but it's mixed with this timid little creature who is afraid of Harry throwing a temper tantrum.

- “Ah, a trip down the memory lane. Was it really necessary to make us re-live the night the Potters died?”

Hell, No! It only reminds us of something that turns out to be irrelevant. I thought that night would turn out to be key – what other events happened that night we had yet to learn of? How was Dumbledore so sure of what had happened? Exactly who was there that night? I'll tell you, Voldemort, James Harry and Lily, that’s who. Dumbledore took a guess at what happened. The End.

All this flashback did was made James and Lily look like fools. Where was James wand? I presume Wizard’s robes have pockets especially for them. Muggle clothes (especially for men) have endless places to keep a wand. Maybe JKR though that living in fear, but still leaving your wand lying around made them seem more noble than putting up a fight and losing. Even if it was to the most feared dark wizard of all time (a title he deserved then) with decades more experience than them. She was hella wrong.

- I’d rather have Voldemort on a broom. Just saying. In fact, someone please remind me why he doesn’t apparate and get there immediately. Is it a feasible reason, or just more nonsensical plot machinations by our favourite fantasy author?

- “I hate it when Hermione becomes this blubbering wreck who flinches at the tiniest sign of an impending Harry!tantrum. I guess that's part of the reason why I ship Harry/Draco. I see Draco as someone who wouldn't put up with Harry's bullshit the way Harry's friends do.”

Word. JKR wanted Harry to be the dominant member of the Trio, so she usually wrote him that way, despite it making no sense at all and involving the most capable member having to constantly cringe and give way. Hermione never acts as if she fancies him, she acts as if she's in awe, almost scared of him. Does he beat her - surely we'd know? She was the same during the whole 'Sirius *is* at the Ministry' sh*te, too scared of upsetting him to be a true friend and really restrain him, once it was obvious he wasn't going to listen to her. Plus some action on her part when he and Ron were rowing, could have stopped Ron walking out in this book, but it wasn’t conducive to the plot. The Hermione who told McGonagall about the mysterious broom and risked his displeasure by doing the right thing and saving him from himself is no more.

In Book 5, this Hermione would have thought of Snape, then gone to him with or without Harry. 'Petrificus Totalis' worked on the worthy Neville, why not use it on this gobsh*te while she sorted him out - again? Instead she’s trapped in a constant cycle of letting him f*ck things up then getting him out of trouble. Yet he never learns from his constant mistakes - he’s an idiot to the end – he just persists in his right to mess things, and people up. Hermione, who does (usually) have brains, completely enables him, so why should he have matured since Book 4? Why *do* people ship this pair, it comes across as really creepy? However, I disagree that Draco is a better match for Harry. I think The Grim Reaper would be better. Heh.

Harry should have been a squib, whose powers were due to his not-horcrux. When he ‘died’, his magic would be left at ‘Kings Cross’ with the crying-baby-soul-fragment-mutant, and he could be whisked to a new life, to fade into legend. (He’d be too vulnerable to endless reprisals, otherwise). I’ll bet a lot of H/H shippers wouldn’t want him and Hermione together if he was a squib. The way JKR writes romance, I’m glad I’m not a shipper.

I'm beginning to wonder whether the whole flasback was just sheer indulgence so she could cram in the bit about Tom meeting that pair of trick-or-treaters.

All this flashback did was made James and Lily look like fools. Where was James wand?
***Word. In GoF, Voldie says to Harry, before duelling him: "And now you face me like a man...straight-backed and proud, the way your father died..." It does sound more like a proper duel than an unarmed man doing...what? Flailing his arms? Kicking Voldie on the shins? Or did he just stand there, straight-backed and so on? What's wrong with him putting up a proper wizard fight but losing?

"Flailing his arms? Kicking Voldie on the shins?"

James was such a Mean Girl at school, I can just imagine him biting and scratching. Voldie's lucky he didn't have any hair to pull.

"Or did he just stand there, straight-backed and so on?"

Or did JKR completely forget what she'd written before?

The whole flashback is so disappointing. I was so sure that Lily's love for him couldn't possibly have been the real reason why Harry survived. Lily must have done something else, otherwise why had no one else ever survived the Killing Curse. You can't make me believe that Lily was the first one ever to die for her child. But noooooo, apparently she was. (And of course Neville's mother couldn't have done it, so it's a good thing Voldie chose Harry as the Chosen One.)

I could go on and on about the terrible things Rowling does to Hermione, but I think you have successfully summed them up.

Actually, I think it was Snape's love that got Voldemort to make an offer to Lily to spare her life, an offer which, when countered as many times as Lily countered it (3?) and then disregarded by VM against his promise to Snape, set up the "your magic backfires" trick... or something. *head hurts* So Snape's love was the key to Harry's surviving the curse, not Lily's "spare him" love. I bet Snape appreciated the irony.

Hermione's whole sense of self-worth was tied up with being necessary to Harry. It was sad, but the author probably felt she had to reinforce Hermione's place in the story. Independent and feisty? That's Ginny -- except around Harry. Sullen enabler (http://www.asktheinternettherapist.com/counselingarchive-enabler-and-codependency.asp) to the Boy Who Lived? That's our girl!

Uh huh. It was being an *oathbreaker* that nailed him the first time. If he hadn't made Horcruxes, that would have been the end of him.

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Deathly Hallows, chapter 17

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