Deathly Hallows Chapter 21

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

The Tale of the Three Brothers

This chapter starts with the Trio giving each other stupid looks. How appropriate.

Xenophilius then explains that hardly anyone knows about the Deathly Hallows. I’d like you to remember that little fact. I think it’s going to come in handy later on in the next chapter when I go on an extended rant about this quest. Consider yourself warned.

Xenophilius heaps scorn on Viktor for attacking him for wearing the DH symbol. This is sort of a nice analogy to the Swastika, which is a sacred symbol in some cultures, but it indicates that Grindelwald was known for using that symbol in his Nazi war—which begs the question of why nobody recognizes it as his, except for one foreigner.

Grindelwald’s War: The Most Famous War that Nobody Knows Anything About.

Unsurprisingly, Infusion of Gurdyroot tastes vile. Harry should have picked up that hint from the amount of sugar Xenophilius added to his. But it wouldn’t be Gryffindorish to cravenly sweeten things with sugar.

Xenophilius goes on to say that Believers (in the Deathly Hallows, I guess), seek the Deathly Hallows and that it all starts with “The Tale of the Three Brothers.”

Hermione pulls out her copy of The Tales of Beedle the Bard, which, according to Hermione and Xenophilius, is the original. The original copy? Or just the original tales without translation? Well, it hardly matters. What does matter is that this book is written in Ancient Runes, and I’m pretty amazed that Hermione is able to translate it on the fly.

I would chalk it up to Hermione’s amazing cleverness if there were any hesitation at all in her reading. Since there isn’t, I’m going to chalk it up to JKR forgetting that the book is written in another language.

So, what to say about this fairy tale? I really have only one comment and that comes from having read a bunch of fairy tales. The three brothers structure is very common, and JKR follows it by having the youngest brother be the most successful.

But what strikes a wrong note to me is the judgmental attitude of “Beedle.” In all the real fairy tales, the younger brother wins out either by being kind (he helps random strangers or animals), or by doing something stupid that turns out to be unexpectedly right.

So, the moral of these stories is that one should be kind or think out of the box. Now, the youngest brother in this story is just using common sense. But the other two are “combative” and “arrogant.” Okay, usually the older brothers are arrogant, but we don’t need the narrator telling us that.

So, anyway, the two older brothers choose the Elder Wand and the Resurrection Stone, but the “wise” brother gets an Invisibility Cloak. Naturally, the first two gifts turn out to be terrible and the brothers die horribly. But I don’t think the youngest brother gets the best of it, since he ends up hiding under the cloak for the rest of his life.

By the way, he gives the Cloak to his son just before he dies. I can’t help wondering how he managed to have kids or hold down a job while invisible. That probably made for some interesting family dynamics.

Lovegood, after staring out the window in a highly suspicious manner, explains that the three objects are known (by those who are in on the secret quest) as the Deathly Hallows. The one person who can possess all three at the same time will become the Master of Death.

Which, he explains, means the “Conquerer” or “Vanquisher” of death. Are we seriously thinking that this means the person becomes immortal?

You know, I never really thought about what “Master of Death” was all about. When I first read this, I just thought it was really stupid idea of a quest. But now I’m wondering why Dumbledore would even be on this fool’s errand in the first place. Isn’t he the person who described death as the next big adventure? Why would he even want to become immortal?

And, even if we think it was just because he was a teenager (like teenagers worry about their mortality in the first place!), he was still fascinated enough as an old man to practically steal James’s cloak, and kill himself over the stone.

Maybe he got into the quest because his mother had just died? Maybe he wanted a chance to yell at her for getting killed and leaving him with the burdens of family when he was all set to go on his cool trip around the world.

Hermione and Lovegood get into a new argument when Hermione expresses skepticism that such objects would actually exist. Since Harry owns the Invisibility Cloak and since the Elder Wand shows up in the history books, Hermione pretty much loses the argument.

I do like the rhetorical trick that Lovegood plays on Hermione when he challenges her to prove that the Resurrection Stone does not exist. It’s at times like this that I think better of JKR than to assume that Hermione is her stand-in. Hermione ends up looking like a real fool in this exchange.

I would like it better if it didn’t seem like this argument is more padding than substance. It’s unproductive to argue over whether these objects exist. I’d prefer a discussion about how they are supposed to conquer death and why anyone would even want to do that.

Hermione then asks about the Peverells (because of the symbol she saw on Ignotus Peverell’s grave) and learns that there were three Peverell brothers and they were supposedly the three brothers in the tale.

Xenophilius goes downstairs to get soup and the Trio discuss this information. According to Ron and Hermione, it’s all rubbish. But they do have a Significant Moment when all three of them choose a different object as the best one. Hermione chooses the cloak, Ron chooses the wand, and Harry chooses the stone.

Since it’s our choices that show who we are in this universe, this must say something about each of the Trio. It shows that Hermione will suck up to an author even if he’s dead. Ron is flashy and wants power—even though he’s never sought it in his life. And Harry just wants to see his loved ones again—so they can tell him what to do.

Then they discuss the oddity of actually having the Invisibility Cloak. Ron, who was the person who told Harry what an invisibility cloak was, finally notices that Harry’s cloak is extra-special, unlike those common invisibility cloaks.

Harry is so used to having extra-special magical objects tossed at him that he stops to wonder if his holly-and-phoenix-feather wand might not just be the fabulous Elder Wand. Then he remembers that holly and elder wood are not the same and that his wand is currently in two pieces, which doesn’t seem very fabulous.

While Ron and Hermione bicker about something boring, Harry notices his face staring down from the room above them. He climbs up the stair to Luna’s bedroom, which has the faces of Harry, Ron, Hermione, Ginny, and Neville painted on the ceiling. As if this wasn’t creepy enough, the portraits are joined by golden chains formed from the word friends written over and over again, thousands of times.

Oh. My. God. Even if I didn’t notice the psycho-killer vibe that Xenophilius had been giving off for the last chapter and a half, this would definitely get me running. This is way creepier than Snape’s “greedy” looks. By several thousand orders of multiples.

I think JKR sees this as charming and artistic. It’s not. It’s scary crazy. It’s the sort of thing that Fundamentalist Christian parents are afraid their kids will start doing after reading a book where magic is not only real, but you can learn how to do it. Because, in a book about magic, what can the words friends written over and over again in golden chains be but some kind of magic ritual?

Heh. The paintings are actually described as having a “kind of magic,” although they don’t move—as magical portraits are supposed to do. That would have been even more disturbing. I’m now imagining Luna talking to her imaginary portrait friends. Like Robert DeNiro with his cardboard cutout talk show guests in The King of Comedy.

Of course, Harry finds this tribute to his awesomeness sweet. What disturbs him is the dust in the room. This is a boy who had mulch in his school trunk, but now he’s weirded out by dust.

He also notices that Xenophilius has only set four bowls of soup on the tray he lugged up the spiral staircase. (Why not just levitate it, eh?)

From these clues, Harry deduces that Luna is not, as Xenophilius stated, catching plimpies at all! Yay, Harry! You finally realized what the reader knew in the last chapter!

So, the Trio draw their wands on Xenophilius and he stammers out that Luna was “taken” and, if he turns Harry in, maybe “they” will give her back.

I see where I was confused about all this. Harry jumps to the conclusion that “they” are the Ministry. But the people who show up are Death Eaters. So, I guess they are the same thing? But then, why even bother to have a puppet minister? Wouldn’t people figure out that Voldemort is in charge if the Aurors are suddenly wearing Death Eater masks?

Anyway, the rest of it is also confusing—I couldn’t follow it at all when I first read it. And, at the time, I had no desire to go back and monitor for clarity. But, what happens is this: The Death Eaters arrive, distracting the Trio and allowing Xenophilius to shoot a stunning spell. The spell misses them and hits the Erumpent /Snorkack Horn, which explodes. The explosion rips apart the room and Xenophilius falls down the spiral staircase into the kitchen.

Hermione signals Harry to be quiet—as opposed to signaling him to get the hell out of there—as the Death Eaters crash open the door below.

I love how the Death Eaters (Travers and Selwyn) assume that this is a false alarm. Apparently they didn’t notice the colossal explosion that just ripped the house apart. Instead of investigating that, Selwyn proceeds to magically beat Xenophilius up, complaining about his trying to trade the homemade Ravenclaw headdress for his daughter a week ago, and to trade proof of the existence of Crumple-Horned Snorkacks the week before that.

Two things: How long is the Holiday Vacation anyway? Remember that we’re only a few days after Christmas here. The kids must have been let out of school mid-December.

And, why would anyone think that Death Eaters would be interested in Crumple-Horned Snorkacks?

Anyway, while Selwyn is torturing Lovegood, Travers checks out the story by casting Hominem Revelio, which lets him know that there is at least one person above the now-blocked staircase.

All of this gives Harry time to start digging himself out of the rubble. And to note that, typically, Ron has managed to be pull the low grade in surviving random explosions by getting himself buried deepest and having to be helped out by the others.

Meanwhile, Hermione has come up with a cunning plan. This involves throwing the Invisibility Cloak over Ron, and then blasting a hole through the floor. As she and Harry fall visibly (and Ron falls invisibly), she manages to Apparate them all mid-air.

Reading this now, I see that the situation is made even more confusing because we don’t know what Hermione’s plan was in this chapter, or why she wanted to do it. We’ll get the explanation later on.

But, as I said, I wasn’t about to go back and try to figure out what went on. At the time, I was searching for the good parts in the book far harder (and with less success) than Harry was searching for the Horcruxes.


Fan Service:
We find out what that symbol on the British cover was—after months of speculation.
We also find out what the phrase “Deathly Hallows” means.

Fan Slappage:
Luna goes straight from charmingly eccentric to a crazy, obsessive stalker.


DVD Extras:

INT: NIGHT – MALFOY MANOR DINING ROOM

LUCIUS and NARCISSA MALFOY preside over the supper table as several elves serve. Draco sits midway down the table, pushing his food around his plate. A voice sings in the distance.

LUNA (Off-screen and muffled)
WIT BEYOND MEASURE
IS MAN’S GREATEST TREASURE…

Narcissa sighs and closes her eyes for a second. The song seems to have been going on for some time.

Opposite Draco are PETER PETTIGREW, using his best manners, and BELLATRIX LESTRANGE, who is leaning on one elbow as she reads through a scroll.

Bellatrix throws the scroll down impatiently.

BELLATRIX
Snape says the girl knows nothing about Potter. He questioned her extensively.

Narcissa turns a patient face towards her son.

NARCISSA
Why did you interfere, Draco? Are you attracted to this girl?

DRACO
(sputtering)
No! Of course not.

LUCIUS
She’s not exactly well-off, but she’s in the registry. I suppose we can’t be choosy…

He trails off under Narcissa’s intent gaze.

NARCISSA
We aren’t going to judge. I’m sure she’s a delightful girl. Such a… robust singing voice.

BELLATRIX
If she doesn’t know anything, she’s useless. Worse than useless! We dare not summon the Dark Lord for a false lead.

PETER
(with inspiration)
Her father runs the Quibbler!

LUCIUS
That rag?

PETER
That’s probably why she was being arrested.

LUCIUS
(thinking)
Umbridge. This has her marks on it.

NARCISSA
She does like to control information. (brightly) Well! That makes it easy. We’ll just let her know that we have the girl and she can take care of the newspaper and it all works out nicely.

She smiles with the air of having finalized a complicated seating chart.

BELLATRIX
(muttering)
I still think we should have given her to Fenrir.

NARCISSA
Nonsense. Draco likes her.

DRACO
(muttering)
I do not.

LUCIUS
(muttering)
At least it is a girl….

NARCISSA
What?

DRACO/LUCIUS
(simultaneously)
Nothing.

Luna starts singing again, as Narcissa sighs and cuts at her vegetables.

FADE OUT

Comments

[eri1980b.livejournal.com]

Considering this chapter is largely exposition, it doesn't feel like we have learned much at all. In fact, as Ron pointed out about the Gryffindor sword, its just a list of more things to find/have thrown magically in Harry's lap.

I didn't like the Luna painting. Its ooc and smacks of desperation from the character, which I don't think Luna is. Its sloppy.

One of my favourite bits in this chapter is when Hermione and Xeno are having the debate over whether or not the stone exists. Wizards never seem to question anything so it was refreshing to see that at least one does, even though he's a bit creepy. Beggars can't be choosers I suppose.

On a final note, if the History Of Magic these poor kids are taught only goes up to the year 1900 how on earth are they supposed to find out about Grindewald? I'm inclined to think it wasn't a big deal in Britain as British wizards just don't discuss or refer to it at all, except as a "fun fact" type sentence on a chocolate frog card. So, if he wasn't paid attention to over here, just how much of a threat was he over there? Small fry, methinks...

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I didn't like the Luna painting. Its ooc and smacks of desperation from the character, which I don't think Luna is

Right. I could believe that Luna painted pictures of her friends. It's those golden chains that are so disturbing. And it just seems out of character for Luna to put chains on anything.

When I was working on this chapter, I tried to look up Luna sites and images because I think we're all in a bit of denial about this chapter in terms of Luna's character. I've seen hundreds of posts debating the meaning of Snape's "no difference" comment and entire novels based on Draco's adventures as a ferret. But no one seems to want to discuss Luna's painting.

I think that's because almost everyone feels affectionately towards Luna. She doesn't have detractors who burn to point out disturbing aspects of her character. And her strong supporters don't want to dwell on something that really crosses the line.

We'd all just like to pretend this moment doesn't exist.

Chekhov's Gun meets Rowling's Horn

[mctabby.livejournal.com]

For it's a truth universally acknowledged that if you hang an Erumpent horn on a wall in Chapter 20, it must explode in Chapter 21.

[/random silly thought]

I can’t help wondering how he managed to have kids or hold down a job while invisible. That probably made for some interesting family dynamics.

Oh, indeed. Did he blame it on a Disillusionment spell gone wrong? Did everyone call him Iggy the Invisible? Some potential for disturbing/hilarious fanfic there.

Maybe he got into the quest because his mother had just died? Maybe he wanted a chance to yell at her for getting killed and leaving him with the burdens of family when he was all set to go on his cool trip around the world.

Yes - Dumbledore tells Harry at King's Cross that Young!Albus wanted to bring his parents back and lose the responsibility of those family burdens; Old!Albus, when he found the Stone, wanted to bring back parents+Ariana and apologise for everything. Also, he says that he and Gellert interpreted "Master of Death" as meaning "invincible" (for their world-conquering purposes) rather than literally immortal.

But Gellert supposedly wanted the Stone in order to make "an army of Inferi" - huh? Seems pretty clear from HBP that you don't need the Stone to make Inferi, and Stone-summoned dead folks sound like they'd make crappy Inferi anyway: either all depressed-withdrawn and wanting to be dead again, like the second brother's bride - or all pro-death upbeat and chipper like the MLPP foursome in the Forest.

Hermione ends up looking like a real fool in this exchange.

My sympathies are with Hermione in this severe *headdesk* moment. Time to pull the "I'm Surrounded By Idiots!" t-shirt (I'm sure she has one) out of the magic hand-bag.

More generally - this whole chapter is such a flagrant infodump. If only all this stuff - from the fairy-tale itself to the Speshulness of Harry's cloak - had been introduced gradually: scattered through the books from PS/SS on.

Then again, the intensive wand-talk in this chapter gave us some of canon's classic double entendres. "Some wizards just like to boast that theirs are bigger and better than other people's."

Your DVD Extra rules. Beautiful characterisation throughout! :D

Re: Chekhov's Gun meets Rowling's Horn

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Stone-summoned dead folks sound like they'd make crappy Inferi anyway: either all depressed-withdrawn and wanting to be dead again, like the second brother's bride - or all pro-death upbeat and chipper like the MLPP foursome in the Forest.

Hehe. That sounds like it would make for a pretty amusing storyline. I could see some long scenes where the depressed zombies sit around drinking and bemoaning their situation.

Re: Chekhov's Gun meets Rowling's Horn

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

"all pro-death upbeat and chipper like the MLPP foursome in the Forest."

They were just giddy with relief from realising that being dead kept them out of the train-wreck the last two books turned into.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

--- “Grindelwald’s War: The Most Famous War that Nobody Knows Anything About.”

The fact that Viktor was the only person who recognized it is total pants. I know there’s no internet in the Wizarding World, but come on. Grindelwald was European, but I refuse to believe that Hogwarts pupils wouldn't be taught a bit about him in History of Magic – remember their own headmaster himself defeated him, becoming the hero and saviour of the Western World. Retch. In fact, even if Aunt Muriel’s generation, who actually lived through it, had strangely forgotten, Fleur is French and Charlie’s lived in Romania for years.

JKR just wanted to please her fans (always a mistake) by bringing Viktor back for no reason whatsoever. (He should have killed a Granger, grumble grumble) This should have been cut and Fleur could have told them about the Deathly Hallows, (linking info we'd been fed throughout the books) at Shell Cottage. They’d still have been able to rescue Luna and there’d have been one less foolish example of Hermione the Sue.

--- “But now I’m wondering why Dumbledore would even be on this fool’s errand in the first place. Isn’t he the person who described death as the next big adventure? Why would he even want to become immortal?”

I’m fine with this quest. I remember reading a review of Deathly Hallows where the reviewer was complaining that Voldemort had simply died at the end, when Dumbles had been so adamant that Death wasn’t something to fear. However Voldemort himself feared death more than anything, so it was a fitting end for *him*. So while Dumbles might not care about being Master of Death, Voldemort (and many others) certainly would, so it was probably worthwhile making sure that the Hallows were out of harm’s way,(and not, for example, left lying around in the Forbidden Forest) before he/they realised that the myth was true. I presume Dumbles sensibly wanted to stop others having it, not that he wanted it for himself. Am I filling in gaping holes in the plot again?

My problem with all this is that I don’t remember JKR ever explaining what being the Master of Death actually meant, or how it worked. At one point Harry owned the Cloak, Stone and was the master of the Elder Wand. So what? I thought it was his sacrifice that meant that no-one on his side could be killed during the Final Battle (eye-roll) so how does owning all three Deathly Hallows actually work?

--- “I’d prefer a discussion about how they are supposed to conquer death and why anyone would even want to do that.”

YES!

--- “It shows that Hermione will suck up to an author even if he’s dead. Ron is flashy and wants power—even though he’s never sought it in his life. And Harry just wants to see his loved ones again—so they can tell him what to do.”

I think it shows that Ron’s common sense beats Hermione’s logic, yet again. Harry has to fight Voldemort. I’ll repeat that, Harry has to fight Voldemort. The biggest baddie in their world (so we’re told) is after Harry ‘Sh*te’ Potter. Even the most skilled and intelligent teenager would have no chance. That is not a description that could, in all fairness, be applied to our hero. I think a wand that * vastly* increases your strength and ability would be of *inestimable* value, even in the future as an Auror. Yes it might cause you personal trouble, but it’s simple - don’t tell anyone you have it! Everyone just thought Dumbles was a super-duper, genius of a duellist because he sensibly kept his mouth shut. As it stands, what chance does Harry have against this mass-murdering Psychopath? ‘Expelliamus’ isn’t going to get him out of trouble this time, that’d be ridiculous!

--- “Meanwhile, Hermione has come up with a cunning plan.”

No, JKR has lost all sense of what is clever and what is completely unbelievable. Hermione isn't impressive here, she's ridiculous. And I used to love her so. Sob.

--- “At the time, I was searching for the good parts in the book far harder (and with less success) than Harry was searching for the Horcruxes.”

Mwah! Nice Extras by the way. Was Draco protesting too much!? Draco/Luna is more platable that Draco/One of the Sues.

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

JKR just wanted to please her fans (always a mistake) by bringing Viktor back for no reason whatsoever

Shame she couldn't bring back Viktor from GoF, this one was a completely different character with the same name.
Wasn't Krum supposed to dislike publicity and be shy? What happened to make him a fame-hungry player? Oh, what am I saying? This is Rowling.
I'm sure he was like that all along and he just had an entirely different personality from one book to another because when you have a crush on someone, it alters everything about you, ever.
I did enjoy him being forced into admiring Ginny, though. Draco might have lost his personality, like most of the characters in DH; but at least he got saved from that, unlike every other male in the Potterverse, all of whom are contractually obligated to note every chapter or so how pretty she is - hint, as a woman, that makes her a valuable and important character!

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Am I filling in gaping holes in the plot again?

Kind of. Dumbledore was on the quest before Grindelwald was more than a pretty boy and long before Voldemort was born. He wasn't trying to keep the Hallows from anyone.

Of course, it doesn't look like he ever tried very hard to find the Hallows. He took the wand from Grindelwald in a duel which took him five years to work up to. And he only had the cloak because James showed it to him.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

"I know there’s no internet in the Wizarding World, but come on. Grindelwald was European, but I refuse to believe that Hogwarts pupils wouldn't be taught a bit about him in History of Magic – remember their own headmaster himself defeated him, becoming the hero and saviour of the Western World."

It was probably too recent to be included in History. You still would think such a Big Event would be something every wizarding child would have heard about it at home, and told their Muggle-born friends, though. Then you remember that no-one knew about Snape/Lily, or that the DADA teacher Lupin was an old friend of The Famous James Potter, or...

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

This is sort of a nice analogy to the Swastika, which is a sacred symbol in some cultures, but it indicates that Grindelwald was known for using that symbol in his Nazi war—which begs the question of why nobody recognizes it as his, except for one foreigner.

It also sort of shows Xenophilius, imo, as being self-centered and insensitive. He doesn't come from a culture in which that symbol is important, he's just into the same cult that Grindelwald was. Viktor is the one dealing with the actual, real-life use of the symbol. Xeno heaping scorn on him for doing it is basically dismissing all the suffering of Grindelwald as stupid compared to his fantasy symbol that makes him feel special. He's shoving it in their face and acting like it's their fault for being uninformed of what the symbol "really means."

But then, nobody that got killed in that war was British.

I suppose we should admire the reverse-Chekov-gun at work in Hermione's study of runes for years. Here's the payoff! And it's even better than Ron knowing what a rook is in chess.

Seriously, it's hilarious that the moral of the story is to hide under an invisibility cloak your whole life, and it never occurs to Beedle to think of what a sad life that would be. So the wise, youngest brother never knew anyone and never did anything, but it was all worth it because, having no life at all, he was totally ready to die when the time came. Great story.

But since we need it to be passed down, we'll make up a son out of nowhere. Or maybe he had the son before he got the cloak and the son just didn't realize he was there all that time.

Maybe Dumbledore thought that as Master of Death he got to decide who lived and who died.

I do like the rhetorical trick that Lovegood plays on Hermione when he challenges her to prove that the Resurrection Stone does not exist. It’s at times like this that I think better of JKR than to assume that Hermione is her stand-in. Hermione ends up looking like a real fool in this exchange.

It's infuriating because Hermione's right, only we know she'll be proved wrong. Wizards aren't logical, so extraordinary claims don't require extraordinary evidence. Otoh, she's also stupid because she's randomly saying these objects are extraordinary when by Wizard standards they aren't. Especially if she's actually seen the graves of the actual guys said to be the brothers in the story.

Though this also begs the question: Is death personified in this world? Or is that a metaphor for the 3 of them creating these objects. Except that doesn't work because the whole idea of the cloak making you immortal is that death can't see you.

It's really silly that they disagree on what object's the best. Next Hermione shared the Muggle story of the 3 Little Pigs. Harry argued that the house of sticks was best because sticks are like wands. Ron said a house of straw would soak up spills.

Oh. My. God. Even if I didn’t notice the psycho-killer vibe that Xenophilius had been giving off for the last chapter and a half, this would definitely get me running. This is way creepier than Snape’s “greedy” looks. By several thousand orders of multiples.

So much. This whole chapter is the creepiest for me--more so than the snake woman by far. How fitting Harry doesn't notice, since this is only one of many monuments to himself.

Please let us stay with the Malfoys!

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

It also sort of shows Xenophilius, imo, as being self-centered and insensitive.

Yes, I agree. I had that feeling about Xenophilius, too. It's a shame that we don't get to see more of Viktor--because it's interesting to have the grandson of someone Grindelwald killed dealing with the uprising of another great Dark Wizard.

Harry argued that the house of sticks was best because sticks are like wands. Ron said a house of straw would soak up spills.

And Hermione said that the house of bricks was best because that's the one the author chose.

How fitting Harry doesn't notice, since this is only one of many monuments to himself.

That Potter family statue was pretty creepy, too!

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

That's really interesting about the Spear of Destiny. I had never heard about it.

And yes. It does miss the point. I think it was important to JKR to push this idea about people dismissing the significance of fairy stories. Which strikes me as something people don't really do. So, I don't know why it's so important to her.

And the biggest problem is that there isn't any way to root the Hallows in historical or religious significance because she hasn't established any history or religion for her world.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Exactly. As far as I can tell without knowing the definition of about half the words you used. :)

As you can tell, I'm not up on methods of argument. But the reason Hermione looks foolish is that she falls into the trap he sets. His challenge to her to prove that the Stone doesn't exist doesn't prove a damn thing, but she allows that statement to completely throw her into a tizzy.

And it isn't really important to establish whether or not the Hallows exist. What's more important is why they exist and what they are actually supposed to do.

But Hermione falls into a stupid argument over whether or not they are arguing and gets tagged as narrow-minded.

Better to simply accept the premise that they exist, as least for the purposes of the discussion, and move on to what they are actually supposed to be about, why anyone would look for them, and whether or not any Death Eaters are likely to be telling Voldemort about that quest.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Hermione pulls out her copy of The Tales of Beedle the Bard, which, according to Hermione and Xenophilius, is the original. The original copy? Or just the original tales without translation?

Not that it matters, no, but by "original" he presumably means untranslated, unexpurgated, or both. Probably there are translations where the three brothers are offered three perfect white raisins (http://www.answers.com/topic/houri#Interpretations).

You know, I never really thought about what “Master of Death” was all about. When I first read this, I just thought it was really stupid idea of a quest.

Let's consider it logically. It can't be immortality as such, because Voldemort is a very bad man and also a sucker for wanting to be immortal. The third, wise brother hid from Death by squatting under a cloak all his life, but he died eventually. Iow he chose when to die. That's how you make Death your bitch!

Dumbledore failed the quest because his motivation was something to do with seeing loved ones again. If your obsession with the Hallows stems from the hope of using them for their intended purpose, you'll fail. But if death doesn't mean much to you because life doesn't mean much, you have the right attitude and the mastery will fall in your lap. It's a Zen thing. Possibly.

It’s at times like this that I think better of JKR than to assume that Hermione is her stand-in.

Not every self-insert is a screaming Sue; there was once a pseudonymous thriller writer whose SI was a villain despised by everyone in the story. It depends on the writer's maturity and sense of humor. To return to JKR, I'd guess Hermione is meant as an affectionate caricature of herself, while Ginny is who she'd like to be. Hermione can be bested once in a while, but Ginny's never supposed to look bad.

Because, in a book about magic, what can the words friends written over and over again in golden chains be but some kind of magic ritual?

That's ingenious. I just assumed it's the teen witch equivalent of this (http://www.ourfavouritethings.co.uk/product.php/681/pearl_heart_frame). However that may be, it wouldn't look so creepy and needy if they actually were her BFF instead of acquaintances who know her to talk to. But of course the author thinks this shrine is only right and proper. The popular kids don't have to hang out with a loser (perish the thought) to count as her friends. Any not-negative attention they pay to her is friendship, for which she should be fawningly grateful. Even when, as eri1980b says, she's a detached loner type who seems no more desperate to be liked than, say, McGonagall.

The spell misses them and hits the Erumpent /Snorkack Horn, which explodes.

That, right there, is how Xenophilius beat out some serious competition to make my Ten Most Hated list. He accuses Hermione of being closed-minded on the same day she tried to tell him about the unexploded bomb in his living room and he went LA LA LA CAN'T HEAR YOU.

Loved the Malfoys' dinner conversation, btw. If only there'd been anything half as good in the book.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

But if death doesn't mean much to you because life doesn't mean much, you have the right attitude and the mastery will fall in your lap. It's a Zen thing. Possibly.

Yes. I can even get behind that philosophy. Of course, the problem with making Death your bitch in real terms is that you don't get to put him off with a magic cloak or anything else. If you want to decide on the time and place of your death, the onlly way to do that is to manipulate an early one.

But, I guess that's all right. Flamel isn't a bad person for staving off Death 650 years. He's just a bit retarded. Dumbledore will set him right and he's still got a few years to set his affairs in order. Dumbledore realizes his days are numbered and immediately starts planning a way to make sure it's his decision about when to go and how.

But Tom was evil, because he was attempting to never die.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

I'd guess Hermione is meant as an affectionate caricature of herself, while Ginny is who she'd like to be. Hermione can be bested once in a while, but Ginny's never supposed to look bad.
Exactly. May I add Pansy as the "shadow" JKR hates about herself? If you look at it, Pansy is shown to be exactly like Ginny: fawning towards her hero (Draco in her case)and vicious towards everybody else. Both are bitchy - only Pansy is deemed to be evil because of it whereas Ginny is supposed to be sassy and fiery or something. And the reason? Why - Ginny does it for the "right man" - and she's pretty, not pug-nosed.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

"That's ingenious. I just assumed it's the teen witch equivalent of this"

***It's JKR, so that's probably just what it was supposed to be. ;-)

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

"The third, wise brother hid from Death by squatting under a cloak all his life, but he died eventually. Iow he chose when to die. That's how you make Death your bitch!"

So... he's fanfic!Lua Klein? (http://www.fanfiction.net/s/4768288/1/A_Traditional_Kind_of_Romance)

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

What does matter is that this book is written in Ancient Runes, and I’m pretty amazed that Hermione is able to translate it on the fly.

I would chalk it up to Hermione’s amazing cleverness if there were any hesitation at all in her reading. Since there isn’t, I’m going to chalk it up to JKR forgetting that the book is written in another language.

She must have forgotten. According to this, then, the Peverells lived and died before the use of Runes was left for the use of the Roman alphabet. Even if the book was published last week, the fact that Runic inscription is its original language means that the brothers lived while or before Runes were in use. All three were dead while or before Runes were in use, too, or the story wouldn't have been originally written in Runes.

The Peverell grave with the DH symbol was inscribed in Roman letters or Harry couldn't have read it.

I'm in college. I'm an English major. I automatically look for symbolism now in everything. Is Hermione's amazing Rune-reading ability an oblique reference to Rowling's having taught English at one time?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I think it's a reference to the carelessness of the continuity editor.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

"According to this, then, the Peverells lived and died before the use of Runes was left for the use of the Roman alphabet"

***It could be that runes were used well into our time in the wizworld. Or JKR just thtrew in the runes because they sound ancient and mystic?


"I automatically look for symbolism now in everything"

***Don't. Don't try to make sense of the JKR maths either.

[elanor-x.livejournal.com]

Xenophilius then explains that hardly anyone knows about the Deathly Hallows. I’d like you to remember that little fact. I think it’s going to come in handy later on in the next chapter when I go on an extended rant about this quest. Consider yourself warned.
I am intrigued. Hope you won't forget the promised rant. :)

But what strikes a wrong note to me is the judgmental attitude of “Beedle.”
I read "The Tales of Beedle the Bard" and other tales are even worse. Uncharitable reading is that JKR likes to tell her readers what to think to the last, tiniest detail (girl posters in Sirius's room, interviews, etc). Trying to find an excuse, I thought about old children's books - wasn't there a period, in which most stories for children preached some clear moral message in a very unsubtle way, like JKR did here? May be she looked for inspiration to the past and was influenced by that old European tradition.

I’d prefer a discussion about how they are supposed to conquer death and why anyone would even want to do that.
WHY? Are you serious? Really? I know killing others to be immortal isn't moral whether it's done once or all the time (Voldemort's Horcruxes vs vampires having to go on killing almost daily), but would you say no to the Stone from PS? Don't we all want to live longer? Or, at least, not to fear death, when the time comes, if the 3 objects give that ability?

I think I understand how they are supposed to make one the “Conquerer” of death:
The Stone - you see all the loved ones again, as if they're immortal too.
The Wand - no human can kill you (f.e. with AK, the killing curse).
The Cloak - you won't die from old age either.

I can’t help wondering how he managed to have kids or hold down a job while invisible. That probably made for some interesting family dynamics.
I think he started wearing it only in his old age, when he started to fear natural death. A bit like DD , who with Snape's help won more time to live despite the ring killing him and then choose the exact moment of death (figuratively "took off the Cloak").

It shows that Hermione will suck up to an author even if he’s dead. Ron is flashy and wants power—even though he’s never sought it in his life. And Harry just wants to see his loved ones again—so they can tell him what to do.
LOL! Especially true about Harry, who rarely thinks about his relatives unless the plot demands it.

As she and Harry fall visibly (and Ron falls invisibly), she manages to Apparate them all mid-air.
Seems like very extreme and dangerous thing to do, even for wizards.

Loved your DVD Extra!

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I am intrigued. Hope you won't forget the promised rant. :)

Not a chance. :)

Trying to find an excuse, I thought about old children's books - wasn't there a period, in which most stories for children preached some clear moral message in a very unsubtle way, like JKR did here?

I think the Victorians started that, although I've read a bunch of Victorian stories and they weren't all that moralistic. Lewis Carroll was a Victorian writer and the Alice books don't have a moral to be found anywhere. Hans Christian Anderson can get a bit preachy, but mostly he's weird and wonderful.

Don't we all want to live longer? Or, at least, not to fear death, when the time comes, if the 3 objects give that ability?

I don't think that objects can take away fear of death. As for living longer, I don't suppose anyone would say no to that (unless they are in great pain), but the idea of living 650 years is exhausting.

But, at least you have a theory about it. That's more than I was getting from Xenophiius.

I think [the youngest brother] started wearing it only in his old age, when he started to fear natural death.

But that's not what the story says. According to the story, the brother was able to escape Death because he was invisible, while the older brothers perished. In his old age, he "finally" removed the cloak in order to go meet Death as an equal.