PoA Chapter Six

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

The first thing Harry notices the next day is that Draco Malfoy is doing impressions of him fainting to laughing crowds. I know this joke will soon get old and people will stop laughing? But I can’t believe they’re even laughing at it now. Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting, or wizards have been seriously warped without TV, literature or theater. What teenagers would find this funny?

I mean, as much as I hate to defend HBP!Ginny, her impression of Harry falling off his broom at least had a context to explain why it was funny. The joke was that Harry was bellowing at people when he got socked in the head with a metal ball that should have killed him. Nobody saw Harry faint and there was nothing funny going on at the time.

Pansy Parkinson has a face like a pug. And totally deserves it.

Harry consoles himself with the fact that the only time he and Malfoy faced each other at Quidditch, Malfoy definitely came off the worst. I’ll bet he feels even better when he remembers that the same is true for just about anybody stupid enough to play Quidditch with Harry.

How was McGonagall expecting Hermione to keep this secret about the Time Turner, btw? Even if she doesn’t really have any friends besides Harry and Ron, it’s not like she doesn’t make herself noticeable in class. Don’t tell me that not once during the year did two students not complain about her in conflicting classes to each other and figure it out.

My canon is now that the whole school except Harry and Ron knew that Hermione was using a Time Turner. Several of them even stole it a few times to do something fun.

Oh god, here comes Hagrid swinging a dead polecat. Because he only likes giant predators.

On their way to Divination they pass a painting that’s kind of a Don Quixote rip-off.

I don’t care what anyone says. I like the way Trelawney decorates her room.

The fog in the room makes Harry feel sleepy and stupid. Which might be the most self-aware Harry has ever been.

Harry predicts Ron might work for the MoM. He could be right. Maybe Ron’s just got 3 jobs instead of the 2 he gets in post-DH interviews.

Once again Hermione randomly decides that something is illogical while accepting that she can turn a frog into a teacup by waving a stick over it. And naturally she’s kind of right.

Or not. If Trelawney's seeing a big, black dog in Harry’s tealeaves, she’s right. And in HBP she was batting something like .397.

McGonagall then announces that Trelawney’s an idiot and Divination is worthless. Harry Potter: So awesome he makes useless subjects true!

Seriously, all Trelawney's true predictions center around Harry. Which I guess validates the centaurs views as well.

McGonagall also says Trelawney predicts a student’s death every year. Ron must be silently resenting why she had to pick Harry this year, stealing what he’d think was his one chance to be the center of interest.

I do like the implication that Hermione really does dislike Divination because she can’t be good at it, but since it really does seem to be a crock, I can’t like it that much. It seems to basically just be a class for poseurs who like putting on an act.

Ron and Hermione aren’t speaking to each other now. I'm sure the crazy hot make-up sex is the heart of their marriage.

Oh god, give me a second to gird my loins for Hagrid’s dumb class.

If you’re waiting for any parallel to be drawn between Draco’s attitude towards Hagrid and Hermione’s attitude towards Trelawney, stop. They’re exact opposites, because Hagrid’s a noble drunk and Trelawney’s a useless drunk. Or something. Also Hagrid’s a half-giant and Malfoy’s a jerk.

Yup, Malfoy’s a total jerk, even calling into question Hagrid’s being qualified to teach class.

Hagrid leads up the animals and introduces them by saying the first thing to know about ‘em is that they’re proud, so don’t insult one or it’s the last thing you’ll do. Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle are whispering in an undertone, the same way Harry and Hermione and Ron have done a dozen times before. Only it’s totally different to do it in this class, so what happens is totally their fault.

I have to go off on this here, because in the past I’ve gotten in tons of long, detailed lectures on how peoples’ riding instructors gave speeches on how dangerous horses were where they made sure everyone was paying attention, and made everyone show they knew the rules, and watched everyone carefully and if they did anything wrong they made them sit out for the day. Only it’s given as an explanation for how Malfoy is wrong here, as if that’s not exactly what Hagrid doesn’t do, and his whole schtick isn’t not getting how dangerous animals are so treating them as if they’re not.

Hagrid’s class isn’t really going over well, so Harry has to step in to back him up. I guess to repay Hagrid for all those times he almost got Harry killed or got Harry in trouble and felt no responsibility for it.

For all the stuff about hippogriffs being proud, apparently they’re okay with Hagrid dumping a kid on their back and slapping them on the ass. I guess since it’s Harry it’s a compliment.

Harry has a big ride full of wonder, proving that if you’re a Gryffindor all animals are glorified taxi services.

Now that Hagrid’s demonstrated proper behavior by treating the hippogriff really carelessly, he sends all the kids into the paddock en masse. What would he have done if they’d all had a chance to take off?

Luckily Malfoy calls Buckbeak a “big ugly brute” (much the way one would probably speak to a beloved pit bull) and the thing rips a big gash in his arm, probably heading off a greater catastrophe. Neville was inches from a meltdown with his own animal.

The Slytherins yell about Hagrid being sacked, proving they suck. These are the type of people who would complain about their kid being petrified in school instead of seeing it as character-building. Probably like child proof medicine caps as well.

The Gryffindors, with Malfoy’s blood still wet on the grass, say it was his fault. Okay yeah, obviously the thing was reacting to Malfoy insulting it like he wasn’t supposed to, but could their little black hearts be smaller or stingier? It’s not even like Malfoy gets sympathy until his dad calls for the animal to be put down (since nobody actually cares about the animal besides Hagrid anyway). They immediately blame the victim.

Harry’s had far worse injuries healed by the nurse. All Harry’s injuries are worse, really, because Slytherin injuries don’t count. You have to have a soul to feel.

“Trust Malfoy to mess things up for [Hagrid],” says Ron, which would be okay if that didn’t seem to be the official reading of the scene. To review: the dozen things Hagrid did to create an obviously crazy unsafe environment for 13-year-olds and wild animals are mistakes any new teacher would make. Malfoy’s mild snottiness and acting like a 13-year-old is unforgivable, indicative of his evil nature and deserving of severe punishment.

In fact, obviously he planned to be attacked to hurt Hagrid. Just like he’ll intentionally force Harry to attack in OotP. Buckbeak and Harry are the real victims here. Draco’s just a master of making people hurt him.

Back at dinner, Harry thinks the Slytherins are cooking up their own version of how Malfoy got injured. Which must be where the whole “Malfoy lied” story always comes up, but I don’t see why Malfoy has to lie (even if he’s malingering, the injury speaks for itself so they can check it).

Note we never exactly hear this “Slytherin version” yet there’s always this vague implication that it’s ruining everything for poor Hagrid. Even though the attack had a dozen witnesses, one of whom was Harry Potter, and pensieves exist.

Hagrid deals with the challenge by drinking—-all the more reason his teaching job should be protected apparently.

Why is it that weakness is so often treated with total contempt while Hagrid sits crying in his beer and blaming his troubles on other people and still sits in the center of the inner circle? I think it’s because Hagrid’s like a pet or a baby so has special license to be pathetic.

Naturally the Trio’s all ready to back Hagrid up. It’s Malfoy’s fault he wasn’t listening. Just like it was Ron’s fault for getting bitten by Hagrid’s dragon. And every student’s fault they didn’t know to stroke their books.

The only reason I can even read this annoying chapter again is that at least I know JKR wrote Hagrid as an unpopular teacher that even the Trio eventually admit is terrible.

Also, weird as it sounds, Malfoy spends the rest of his school career listening very carefully in CoMC. Which I’m sure is a sign of cowardice? But is actually one of the book’s only examples of someone learning something from a mistake!

To review, since obviously this scene bugs me, I don’t have a problem with Malfoy getting a lesson in what happens when you don’t listen in class, or when you dick around with wild animals. (Even if what he did couldn’t actually be considered dicking around in any real sense of the word.) But the way Hagrid immediately gets turned into this innocent victim we’re supposed to rally around so he never has to learn anything drives me nuts. And then people wonder why there are fans who think Slytherins might as well be jackasses since the only time the heroes aren’t happy to watch them die is when they see a chance to dramatically rescue them for their own egos.

Things happening twice:

Ron points out Hermione is scheduled for 3 classes at once. Later she and Harry will be in two places at once.
McGonagall mentions Animagi and turns into one, just like Sirius will. Also transformation turns Lupin into a wolf and Peter into a rat.
Ron has a Great Uncle Bilius and that turns out to be his middle name.
Draco’s attitude in Hagrid’s class, though condemned, is pretty parallel with Hermione’s at Divination.
Harry rides the hippogriff, because he’s going to have to do that again later.
Buckbeak’s slashing will be totally outdone by Harry’s own slashing of Malfoy in HBP.
Also in sixth year Draco will again wind up in a pool of his own blood due to a combination of his own behavior and a Gryffindor’s actions, and again the Slytherins will be seen as making Harry’s life hard by caring.
We meet Sir Cadogan here because he’s going to fill in for the Fat Lady later.
Harry barely listens in Transformation and Malfoy barely listens in CoMC, but everyone knows the first is normal and the second is idiotic because WILD ANIMALS!

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!.
Trelawney’s prediction to Parvati
Beware a red-haired man!
Status: Dud. If only it had been Lavender!
McGonagall’s lesson
Status: 20 gun salute. Harry barely listens to McGonagall telling them that Animagi are wizards who can transform into animals, and barely watches her demonstration as she does it herself, because it’s going to be really important.




Designated Hero
We can tell they’re the good guys because they have no compassion for kids whose injuries either benefit, amuse, bore or cause problems for them and their friends while the compassion they show to innocents is lovingly highlighted.

IITS
How come Divination is arbitrarily the one kind of magic that doesn’t really work? It’s in the script.

"Watermelon, watermelon, cantaloupe, cantaloupe"
I’m sure there were a lot of angry watermelons and cantaloupes coming from the Slytherins in that last scene.

Jabootu Score: 3

Comments

part 1

[oryx_leucoryx]

Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting

Yes, there was. The Slytherins were described as being entertained by a very funny story before the impression of fainting. There was some kind of commentary that already put them in the mood to laugh.

Don’t tell me that not once during the year did two students not complain about her in conflicting classes to each other and figure it out.

No other Gryffindor takes any of the overlapping classes though, and it seems the classes are arranged to overlap either Divination or Charms - which the Gryffindors supposedly take on their own (let's not worry about how Flitwick manages it. Maybe the other 3 Houses have Charms together). But the Patils should have noticed - I bet some Ravenclaws take Arithmancy and/or Ancient Runes, so Padma should know Hermione is in those classes while Parvati knows Hermione is in some overlapping class with the other Gryffindors.

Harry predicts Ron might work for the MoM. He could be right. Maybe Ron’s just got 3 jobs instead of the 2 he gets in post-DH interviews.

The Aurors' Office is part of the Ministry. But this is Ron's prediction for Harry. The same image can also be interpreted as 'a windfall, unexpected gold' - the Triwizard prize? His inheritance from Sirius? Since the predictions don't have a time limit, sometimes it's just a matter of waiting long enough, making them next to useless. Especially the death predictions - even the Flamels (and Voldemort) died eventually.

None of Trelawney's students since 1980 died yet? I wonder if a few years earlier Cedric was her designated victim. Or if Colin was the one the following year. Sadly we can't know.

Status of predictions made this chapter:

- Gran's health? Unknown. (What is the significance that Neville answers 'tremulously'? Does he fear Trelawney? Does mention of Gran bring up fear of her? Does Neville fear *for* Gran?)
- 'Beware a red-headed man' - was this a confusion with Lavender (HBP) or Padma (Yule Ball)? Maybe Trelawney predicted Fred would lose an ear and George would die.
- bout of flu in February? unknown.
- a student leaving forever around Easter? Yes.
- Lavender's fear coming true on October 16th - while the rabbit died earlier the news came that day. Do we fear events or learning of them?
- Neville breaking 2 cups? Yes.
- Ron will have trials and suffering, but also great happiness. Well, at some point.
- Harry will work for the Ministry? Yes, if he is an Auror.
- Harry will win unexpected gold? Yes.
- Harry has a deadly enemy? Yes.
- Harry will be attacked? Yes.
- Danger lies in Harry's path? Yes.
- Harry will die? Well, I suppose he will at some point. But the sign was true, only misinterpreted - he will meet that dog.

Many of the predictions are too vague or open-ended to be useful and many could have been arrived at by familiarity with the subjects and what Pratchett's witches call 'headology'. Anything unhappy that took place on October 16th could be taken as the fulfillment of the prediction. So Divination might be a 'real' form of magic in the Potterverse but the interpretation of the signs has to be done carefully.

BTW Lavender wasn't alarmed by the mention of the Grim, yet in DH she attended school. Does this mean she comes from a Divination-skeptical family or one that is ignorant of this art?

Re: part 1

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

So Divination might be a 'real' form of magic in the Potterverse but the interpretation of the signs has to be done carefully

*** No difference to Muggle divination, then.

The Hogwarts curriculum is one of JKR's "it's funny, I'll use it" that works fine for a children's book but becomes weird when the series cross into YA-territory. Tea-leaves and chrystal balls is a "witchy" thing to do, but when you think seriously, what use have people with real magic for it? Are there a booming industry in astrology and Feng Shui in the wizworld as well as the Muggle one?

Re: part 1

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how I switched the Harry/Ron prediction there!

Many of the predictions are too vague or open-ended to be useful and many could have been arrived at by familiarity with the subjects and what Pratchett's witches call 'headology'. Anything unhappy that took place on October 16th could be taken as the fulfillment of the prediction. So Divination might be a 'real' form of magic in the Potterverse but the interpretation of the signs has to be done carefully.

It seems like where it might exists Wizards have no way of intentionally doing it. At least that this point. Maybe it's just a gift that you have or you don't? Because most of what Sybil does seems to be pure fakery (and not very well done at that) but at the same time she's often correct. Why does she have a different voice when she makes a big prophecy for instance? You'd think they'd study that in class.

part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hagrid leads up the animals and introduces them by saying the first thing to know about ‘em is that they’re proud, so don’t insult one or it’s the last thing you’ll do. Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle are whispering in an undertone, the same way Harry and Hermione and Ron have done a dozen times before. Only it’s totally different to do it in this class, so what happens is totally their fault.

And if anyone gets bitten by the textbook because s/he didn't know s/he was supposed to stroke it first, it's hir fault too.

Harry assumes Draco et al are plotting to disrupt the class - because that's what he and Ron did in Potions the previous year with that firecracker in Goyle's cauldron? Getting injured because you are not listening - evil. Causing injury to others because you are deliberately doing something dangerous and against the instructions - hilarious. And saintly, if done for 'the greater good'.

Harry has a big ride full of wonder, proving that if you’re a Gryffindor all animals are glorified taxi services.

Hey, I thought you were reading! That's the movie version. The book version is more modest.

I like seeing Pansy running after Hagrid, who is carrying Draco. She really did care for him.

Even though the attack had a dozen witnesses, one of whom was Harry Potter, and pensieves exist.

Rowling doesn't even have the excuse that she hadn't yet thought of Pensieves at this point of her writing. Tom's diary was already a memory one could explore outside the viewpoint of the person from whom it was taken.

Harry barely listens in Transformation and Malfoy barely listens in CoMC, but everyone knows the first is normal and the second is idiotic because WILD ANIMALS!

And in COS Ron said "D'you think we've got nothing better to do in Potions than listen to Snape?"

How come Divination is arbitrarily the one kind of magic that doesn’t really work? It’s in the script.

I think it does work in the Potterverse, but one needs to apply a lot of critical thinking in the interpretation - filter out the useless stuff or only take seriously predictions that are very specific and be open to all possible interpretations. Which may mean that only after the fact one can understand what a prediction was about. If so the prediction was true but not useful. (But then, most of the time Transfiguration isn't that useful either.)

Re: part 2

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hey, I thought you were reading! That's the movie version. The book version is more modest.

Not only am I reading, I've never even seen the movie. But the commercial had that one second of Harry rising into the air so even I can't imagine him on it without the wonderment! But really it's the taxi service that's the point for me. That really struck me in OotP with the Thestrals. After DH we can ride dragons to the list.

I think it does work in the Potterverse, but one needs to apply a lot of critical thinking in the interpretation - filter out the useless stuff or only take seriously predictions that are very specific and be open to all possible interpretations. Which may mean that only after the fact one can understand what a prediction was about. If so the prediction was true but not useful. (But then, most of the time Transfiguration isn't that useful either.)

It's definitely one of those weird things that can send you down the rabbit hole when you think about it. Because on one hand it's real, even if most of the time she's faking it--which is something she'd understandably do. But then there's the fact that Dumbledore seems to happily teach it as a joke--even while he's basing his whole life around a prophecy.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I feel so short!

Oh god, here comes Hagrid swinging a dead polecat.

No wonder the chapter stinks of Le Peu - it's Pepe's dead relation!

(even if he’s malingering, the injury speaks for itself so they can check it)

Not only does it speak, it posts bills (on Post-No-Bills walls - it's Slytherin, they're bad like that) telling about it.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It's funny that so much of the book comes down to this alleged trial and while we don't see it, we hear about it and it's so weirdly vague about exactly what's being argued. Like with the injury, you've got Pomfrey who could tell them exactly how bad it was if that's what Draco was lying about.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

While I guess I was vaguely aware of the hypocrisy evident in the early days of the series - friends of Harry GOOD, Slytherins BAD - I didn't ponder overly about it. The early books were clearly in the 'simplistic' mould of children's books, where such things are exaggerated or accepted. PoA was starting to grow up a little, though.

Is a reason ever given for Hagrid being promoted from grounds keeper to 'professor'?

(And is it a truth that (simple) high school teachers are accorded the title 'professor' in the UK? I've always thought that was a bit pretentious. Certainly when reading the 'Harry becomes a DADA teacher while still a student' fan fiction stories.)

I mean, as much as I hate to defend HBP!Ginny --

As well you should --

-- her impression of Harry falling off his broom at least had a context to explain why it was funny.

Like oryx_leucoryx has said, Draco's miming of a person fainting seems to be the punch line of a 'funny story'. But yeah, it seems no worse than the brutish humour which the two-year-older Ginny employed in the sixth book, and which had Harry and Hermione often grinning or laughing. Harry laughed at/with Ginny, so GINNY GOOD. Harry doesn't like Draco, so DRACO BAD.

[epea-pteroenta.livejournal.com]

(And is it a truth that (simple) high school teachers are accorded the title 'professor' in the UK? I've always thought that was a bit pretentious. Certainly when reading the 'Harry becomes a DADA teacher while still a student' fan fiction stories.)

Love reading these but never comment but just have to pop in as resident Brit:

No. In Britain Professor is a title awarded to high achieving academics at university. The only way a high school teacher could be a professor is if he has already reached this rank in a university. This would be very unlikely as a professorship is generally awarded to those academics with excellent research credentials, not for teaching.

So basically I have no idea what JKR is doing there.

(Incidentally, why are some women called Madam? Madam Bones, Madam Pomfrey... Is it a title given to a woman who works but isn't a teacher? But that doesn't seem to be consistent. Like so many things.)

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

I didn't ponder over the hypocisy either at first. The books were entertaining, not works of genius, so I dismissed it. However the more boring and poorly written/constructed they became (I'm looking at you, Deathly Hallows) the more I started to tear them apart. Order was the first book when my dislike at some behaviour changed from while it was happening dislike to permanent dislike. It's only looking back that I've started to see signs of future problems in the earlier, enjoyable books.

I've said it before, JKR genuinely seems to feel that people's behaviour should be judged by the colour of their tie - I wouldn't want her teaching my children.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think the only reason for Hagrid being a teacher is that he was cleared of his crimes in CoS (right?). The fact that he immediately starts being called "Professor" is just weird. I wonder if JKR just liked the sound of it? Since there's no university in the WW I guess we could just say they took that thing and applied it to school. But it's not even really a title if you just get it when you teach. I mean, it's more of a job title rather than a symbol of academic acheivement.

It strikes me that it's kind of funny the way that Hagrid and everyone immediately get to be professor but Pomfrey doesn't get to be a doctor.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

---“The first thing Harry notices the next day is that Draco Malfoy is doing impressions of him fainting to laughing crowds. I know this joke will soon get old and people will stop laughing? But I can’t believe they’re even laughing at it now. ... What teenagers would find this funny?”

80% 0f TV is sh*te, so they’re missing nothing there. However in my mind, they *do* have a unique, rich and fascinating history of literature, music and theatre – JKR was just too busy with other things to develop their culture on the page. Apart from music briefly in GoF and the Yule Ball was just so she could indulge her unfeasible little Mary-Sue fantasy of the brilliant sports star, desperate to date the plain, shrewish and undesirable female – which happens *so* often in real life! With her rubbish record, I’ll just presume it’s an omission until she states otherwise – apologies if she already has!

As for Draco, I agree that it doesn’t seem the most hilarious of party pieces – maybe it’s his running commentary?

---“I do like the implication that Hermione really does dislike Divination because she can’t be good at it, but since it really does seem to be a crock, I can’t like it that much.”

If Hermione had had to face that flaw in her character, then she might have developed into the kinder, more understanding person that I thought I saw hidden under the shrillness and insecurity in the first few books. The one I really liked. However JKR avoided any hint of character growth for almost everyone – unless you include becoming a lot worse - so Hermione had to be right and Divination had to be rubbish – apart from the occasions when it was totally accurate in order to drive the plot.


---“The only reason I can even read this annoying chapter again is that at least I know JKR wrote Hagrid as an unpopular teacher that even the Trio eventually admit is terrible.”

I despise Hagrid. I despise every hair in his stupid beard, I despise every time he says “yeh” instead of you, and I despise (and resent) every second he forced us to spend in the company of the brother from Hades. For me, the ending of the film version of Chamber of Secrets is Hell on Earth. That said, he was Harry’s first friend in the Wizarding World and yet another father figure, so you could understand *his* early bias. I really hope that JKR meant to show that just because Harry liked and depended on someone, didn’t mean they were infallible – something every child learns as they grow up. However, so many other people got away with appalling behaviour with no hint of retribution in this series, I think it was a fluke. She probably just couldn’t be bothered to think up any more unusual creatures/struggled with writing the accent.

As for Hermione’s opinion of Trelawney vs. Draco’s of Hagrid – that’s the sort of total, apparently unrealized hypocrisy I expect from JKR.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

so Hermione had to be right and Divination had to be rubbish – apart from the occasions when it was totally accurate in order to drive the plot.

Funny, I've never picked that up as a flaw or contradiction in the series before.

I guess, maybe, because I *loved* the idea of a prophecy, once it was unveiled as the foundation of the entire 880-plus pages of what we had to wade through in the fifth book. So much could have been made of a bona fide prophecy forcing Harry to be 'murderer or murdered'. But then in the following novel Rowling made a complete joke of the prophecy and took pains to have Dumbledore tell us that it didn't matter, it meant nothing, it had no power (other than Voldemort choosing to grant it same).

(This is the same Dumbledore who sacrificed two lives - almost three with Arthur Weasley - to its protection in the fifth novel. Why oh why didn't Harry challenge him on throwing away those lives for a prophecy which Dumbledore discards so easily (the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything!).)

So yeah, Divination and prophecies, their usefulness and stature seems to vary from book to book and instance to instance; just another plot crutch for Rowling's inconsistent use.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

However in my mind, they *do* have a unique, rich and fascinating history of literature, music and theatre – JKR was just too busy with other things to develop their culture on the page.

Actually, I feel like she actually has said otherwise, basically just suggesting they don't have much in the way of fiction. I guess because magic is so fabulous they don't need it? They do have Martin the Mad Muggle comics but I don't think they are supposed to have any big tradition in the arts.

If Hermione had had to face that flaw in her character, then she might have developed into the kinder, more understanding person that I thought I saw hidden under the shrillness and insecurity in the first few books.

Blackmailing successfully with no consequences was probably a really bad thing to happen to her.

However, so many other people got away with appalling behaviour with no hint of retribution in this series, I think it was a fluke. She probably just couldn’t be bothered to think up any more unusual creatures/struggled with writing the accent.

Really, Harry's understanding of him comes pretty quickly. In PS/SS he pulls that nonsense with the dragon and Harry not only protects him but sits through a detention given by Hagrid that he gets for trying to save his ass. So I guess the thing with Hagrid isn't that Harry realizes he has flaws, because his flaws were always lovable.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting, or wizards have been seriously warped without TV, literature or theater. What teenagers would find this funny?

*** Wizards have a warped sense of humour. Full stop.

We should count or blessings that the books being labelled children's books prevents any wizards dress up as witches with enormous false boobs.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

OMG, that would so happen. Practical jokes shops are like the cornerstone of the economy.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

My canon is now that the whole school except Harry and Ron knew that Hermione was using a Time Turner. Several of them even stole it a few times to do something fun.

That's a lovely idea. And it's backed up by Hermione having that nervous breakdown--because half the time, the other students had stolen her time-turner and she wasn't able to make all her classes.

On their way to Divination they pass a painting that’s kind of a Don Quixote rip-off.

God. Is that what Sir Cadogan is supposed to be? He's one of those parts of series I tend to block out because he makes zero sense to me, either as a plot device or as comic invention.

Ron must be silently resenting why she had to pick Harry this year, stealing what he’d think was his one chance to be the center of interest.

Too bad she never predicted him getting poisoned, since that's what got him attention in HBP. I know JKR is making fun of the stupid things that "the masses" find interesting--but wizards seem stupider than most about it. Like, idolizing a baby because he doesn't get killed. Okay, yes, we all get into babies that get pulled out of wells--but we don't keep obsessing about them ten years later!

I mean, couldn't Celestina Warbeck flash something getting off a broomstick and take the heat off Harry once in a while?

(Ahem. Sorry about that rant. Very off-topic.)

Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting, or wizards have been seriously warped without TV, literature or theater. What teenagers would find this funny?

I think it must be the delivery, plus the fact that wizards find any kind of weakness or injury HILARious. See how funny it is when we make clip-clop sounds and cause flashbacks in Umbridge!

Pansy Parkinson has a face like a pug. And totally deserves it.

Only ugly people are mean. And only mean people are ugly. It's a rule of fiction.


The Gryffindors, with Malfoy’s blood still wet on the grass, say it was his fault. Okay yeah, obviously the thing was reacting to Malfoy insulting it like he wasn’t supposed to, but could their little black hearts be smaller or stingier?

Hehe. Not much to comment on, but I have to say I love this phrasing. "Could their little black hearts be smaller or stingier" is the perfect way to describe the Trio.


In fact, obviously he planned to be attacked to hurt Hagrid. Just like he’ll intentionally force Harry to attack in OotP. Buckbeak and Harry are the real victims here. Draco’s just a master of making people hurt him.

This sort of thing comes up so much in pop culture that I wonder if there's a trope for it. How many times in movies/tv does a minor villain say something snotty so that we can get our jollies by watching the hero pop him?

It's amazing how on that parellel of Trelawney/Hagrid is. It's so on that it's one of those times when you almost think that JKR was doing something sophisticated and radical in her story... I mean, here we are, all hoodwinked into thinking Hagrid is a hapless victim and Trelawney is self-indulgent fraud (she doesn't really become alcoholic until OotP). Yet they are mirror-images of each other.

Of course, as the series progresses, we do some anvil-sized hints that Hagrid is a bad teacher and there's that whole iffyness about whether or not Trelawney is a fraud who lucks out twice by getting "real" prophecies, or whether she's getting regular visions, but unable to interpret them correctly. There's also the question of whether or not her visions are linked to alcohol use. The more she drinks, the more likely she is to use the true sight.

Why the hell did Hermione even sign up for Divination if she despises it so? Was she worried that Harry and Ron would fail the class if she wasn't there to do their homework?

The only reason I can even read this annoying chapter again is that at least I know JKR wrote Hagrid as an unpopular teacher that even the Trio eventually admit is terrible.

You sound like me ranting about "The Prince's Tale!"

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I do wonder why Hermione took divination. She could have thought it would be different than it was, but you'd think she would have checked it out thoroughly before that. If McGonagall is so openly disdainful of it you'd think she'd know to skip that. But then, I guess it comes down to Hermione always being one to want to impress. Is studying Muggles from a wizard pov really that fascinating? Or did she just want a chance to shine in every class and make sure there wasn't any information she didn't know?

And yes, it is amazing that Harry's not only a celebrity in the WW, he's like the only celebrity on his level. I guess Viktor at least is supposed to outdo him in fame, but really you'd think a lot of people wouldn't even care about him as a celebrity since he never did anything.

[xerox78.livejournal.com]

I know JKR is making fun of the stupid things that "the masses" find interesting--but wizards seem stupider than most about it. Like, idolizing a baby because he doesn't get killed. Okay, yes, we all get into babies that get pulled out of wells--but we don't keep obsessing about them ten years later!

Maybe Harry wouldn't have been so idolized if he'd preempted Rags to Riches. :oP

First half of comment:

[octopuspatronus.livejournal.com]

I tried to post earlier but my internet died and I lost everything I wrote. It was very tragic.

The first thing Harry notices the next day is that Draco Malfoy is doing impressions of him fainting to laughing crowds[…] Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting, or wizards have been seriously warped without TV, literature or theater. What teenagers would find this funny?

I imagined it being a whole routine where the point is that Harry's a huge drama queen-- like Draco's doing a big over-the-top swoon, complete with wrist to forehead, eyes rolling back, Shakespearian-style speaches-- and his friends also find it funny on another level because Draco is a huge drama queen, too, so it's like drama-squared. SOULMATES! So it'd be funnier in person, and the humor would depend on how into it Draco gets (which I'm betting would be a lot). I might just be easily amused, however. It's still better than "Humongous Bighead," dammit.

Pansy Parkinson has a face like a pug. And totally deserves it.

I think pugs are cute, I don't know what JKR's problem is. Though, admittedly, I have no idea how a person would look with a pug-face. What would that even mean? I guess a kind of round face with a small smooshed-up nose and large eyes... I don't know, that sounds cute enough to me.

Harry consoles himself with the fact that the only time he and Malfoy faced each other at Quidditch, Malfoy definitely came off the worst. I’ll bet he feels even better when he remembers that the same is true for just about anybody stupid enough to play Quidditch with Harry.

Seriously, Malfoy, just give up. Your parents aren't even DEEAAAAAAD.

My canon is now that the whole school except Harry and Ron knew that Hermione was using a Time Turner. Several of them even stole it a few times to do something fun.

It's my own belief that plenty of kids have used Time Turners to take more classes and so it's not really something that's made a fuss about. Percy Weasley must have to get all those OWLS of his (something like thirteen, I believe).

Re: First half of comment:

[oryx_leucoryx]

It's my own belief that plenty of kids have used Time Turners to take more classes and so it's not really something that's made a fuss about. Percy Weasley must have to get all those OWLS of his (something like thirteen, I believe).

Twelve OWLs. There aren't any more subjects. Other who had 12 OWLs are Bill and Barty Crouch Jr. And who knows how many others.

But you know who else used a Time Turner? Umbridge in OOTP. At some point she was giving her own classes and supervising all of Trelawney's as well as Hagrid's classes. More support for those who like Hermione/Umbridge parallels.

This half is brought to you by Stephen Colbert:

[octopuspatronus.livejournal.com]

[Divination] seems to basically just be a class for poseurs who like putting on an act.

My canon now says that Draco was the best in the Slytherins' Divination class. If there's one person who'd love gravely "predicting" imaginative ways for Harry to die, it'd be Draco-- and Trelawney eats it up.

Yup, Malfoy’s a total jerk, even calling into question Hagrid’s being qualified to teach class.

How dare he be pretty much right about everything he says about Hagrid! You take your truth and facts and go join the Death Eaters, Mister Malfoy, we'll have none of that on the good side! Reality has a well-known Liberal evil bias.

The Gryffindors, with Malfoy’s blood still wet on the grass, say it was his fault. Okay yeah, obviously the thing was reacting to Malfoy insulting it like he wasn’t supposed to, but could their little black hearts be smaller or stingier? It’s not even like Malfoy gets sympathy until his dad calls for the animal to be put down (since nobody actually cares about the animal besides Hagrid anyway). They immediately blame the victim.

This comparison didn't really occur to me until I re-read the scene where Aunt Marge's bulldog chased Harry up a tree after he stepped on its tail (you know, actually hurting it-- what did Draco hurt, Buckbeak's feelings?). It's pretty common practice to put down dogs and other animals that attack people, and it's pretty common practice to prosecute people who let their vicious animals around people and risk the animal attacking somebody.

Here we're dealing with a rough equivalent of a high-school teacher bringing in a hyper-aggressive, wild lion/tiger/bear/oh-my or something into class on the first day of school for funsies, which then attacks a student for almost no reason... and somehow it's wrong to suggest that the animal be put down and the teacher punished?

I mean, I can kind of understand it being slightly different in the context of the wizarding world, but it's still pretty damn stupid. My Muggle brain clearly cannot comprehend Harry Potter logic.

Note we never exactly hear this “Slytherin version” yet there’s always this vague implication that it’s ruining everything for poor Hagrid. Even though the attack had a dozen witnesses, one of whom was Harry Potter, and pensieves exist.

What would they even say that would make it worse than what actually happened? They're probably telling the truth, but the Glorious Golden Gryffindors don't approve because it's too sympathetic to the victim I MEAN THE HORRIBLY EVIL PERPETRATOR OF THIS MALICIOUS PLOT TO... erm... get himself mauled by a hippogryph... in order to... uh... EVIL!

Slytherins, I thought I told your pal Malfoy to take your truth to the Death Eaters. Only Gryffindor-approved Truthiness(tm) is allowed amongst us decent folks!

Re: This half is brought to you by Stephen Colbert:

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

This comparison didn't really occur to me until I re-read the scene where Aunt Marge's bulldog chased Harry up a tree after he stepped on its tail (you know, actually hurting it-- what did Draco hurt, Buckbeak's feelings?). It's pretty common practice to put down dogs and other animals that attack people, and it's pretty common practice to prosecute people who let their vicious animals around people and risk the animal attacking somebody.

Yeah... another thing is, Hagrid didn't exactly mention that hippogriffs understand English, did he? He said not to insult them, and he demonstrated two kind of respectful/positive behavior: bowing, and not blinking. It's quite reasonable to assume that respectful and disrespectful behavior is all about body language and physical actions.

And apparently smacking them -- once you've gone through the whole bowing thing -- isn't an insult, as sistermagpie pointed out. Looks like it's just about demonstrating the right attitude to begin with, really. So why should Draco have been worried about verbally insulting the hippogriff while merely patting its beak?

Now, sure, in the wizarding world, there are some animals that understand language. Acromantulas and sphinxes, for example. Plenty can't, though, and which do and which don't is part of what the students are there to learn. They can't be expected to know the first day of class, particularly not when (as Hagrid discovered) they couldn't read their books before class.

Really, Hagrid should have explained thoroughly what constitutes respectful behavior and what constitutes an insult, from the hippogriffs' perspective. Away from the paddock, obviously.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

If you’re waiting for any parallel to be drawn between Draco’s attitude towards Hagrid and Hermione’s attitude towards Trelawney, stop. They’re exact opposites, because Hagrid’s a noble drunk and Trelawney’s a useless drunk. Or something. Also Hagrid’s a half-giant and Malfoy’s a jerk.

I've been reading the discussion about the parallels between Trelawney's and Hagrid's classes, and Hermione/Draco, but I haven't been sure how to jump in. I'm not sure that Hermione Granger is supposed to be correct that Divination is worthless. I think she is still supposed to be an annoying swot and a hypocrite at this point in the story. She is taking way too many classes and taking at least one she disapproves of no doubt out of hysterical fear that she will be found lacking in magical knowledge. She still hasn't had her "books and cleverness," total Gryffindor moment.

Meanwhile, Trelawney actually does have the Inner Eye, but she doesn't have it all the time and she isn't even aware of it when it takes over. All she knows is that Dumbledore hired her, so he must have seen something in her. She's trying to impart some of what she thinks Divination is, and with books and what-not, she's probably doing a good enough job. She might not think her subject is a con job, even though she uses the tools of con artist fortune-tellers and psychics. They are the same tools that anyone who believes in divination might use.

We thought that Dumbledore was keeping Trelawney around to protect her or keep her Inner Eye from Voldemort. But, like so many of the misfits he allegedly protects, he essentially dumps her in the squid-infested waters of Hogwarts and says, "You're on your own. Swim." With the other misfits, he also makes sure they know, "You owe it all to me, so when I come around to ask you for something, jump," at the same time he throws them to the wolf. Trelawney doesn't have that much value to him, and after DH, it appears he wasn't even protecting her, as hearing the Prophecy was no longer a plot point. Dishearteningly, we see Trelawney in DH chucking crystal balls at Death Eaters, the only use for them she's really able to master. She doesn't even use magic to fight. But by this time, she's heard other teachers put her down and Dumbledore fail to defend her (which is probably why she stays in the tower) and she's retreated to the bottle to cope, so she's probably just thrilled to be playing a part in DH.

As for Hagrid, making him a teacher was another instance of Dumbledore's lack of care for Hogwarts. Hagrid was loyal to Dumbledore, and that's what Dumbledore rewarded. It didn't matter if Hagrid was qualified to teach -- how many teachers were qualified? Their relationship with Dumbledore was all that mattered.

Making Hagrid a teacher was also a chance for Dumbledore to tweak people like Lucius Malfoy, who disapproved of the way Dumbledore ran the school. Draco probably parroted what he heard from his dad when he talked about Hagrid. Dumbledore's supposed championing of Muggleborns and oddities like werewolves and centaurs made him a sentimental favorite of readers, but when you step back and coolly evaluate Dumbledore's performance as Headmaster, Lucius Malfoy was essentially correct about how poorly Dumbledore ran the school. Malfoy just got the reasons wrong. And, stepping back, it is obvious that we were set up to believe that Draco was an obnoxious, spoiled, all-mouth no-action brat who got what he deserved, when he actually tried to be friendly to Potter, tried to please a demanding father, put effort into studying and achieving, put himself on the line a couple of times, and was generally mistreated more than served justice.

Wow, second part

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

At one point, I liked the way JKR seemed to confound expectations. You'd think Divination was BS, because the Granger mouthpiece said so, but look again! there are actual prophesies that come true. You'd think Hagrid was a good-hearted, simple, lovable giant loyal to the good side, but look again! he's a sentimental drunk with little intelligence who compromises the good side repeatedly and endangers students. In DH, however, the switcheroo was such a disappointment in every way. You'd think Harry Potter was a competent, coming-of-age hero destined to struggle with himself in order to save the world, but... no, he just sits around in confusion and self-righteousness and then walks to his death, not even struggling much with that decision. You'd think the cataclysm in the Wizarding World would result in fundamental changes, or at least a recognition of the need to work through the "Slytherin problem," but... no, Potter was married with children, one of whom was headed for Gryffindor, and all was well.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

McGonagall then announces that Trelawney’s an idiot and Divination is worthless.

I love the Hogwarts esprit de corps. (Cf. also Professors Lupin and Snape.) Wouldn't it be awesome to have a job where you could tell a customer with a complaint, "My coworker sucks. Don't deal with her again if you can help it"?

Re: Hagrid and his defenders: I'm starting to think these books are meant for people who'd rather not see both sides of a question. The Dursleys are horrible, therefore it's okay for Dumbledore to Mugglebait them, that sort of thing. The idea that if Malfoy contributed to his own injury, then Hagrid can't be culpable is particularly infuriating, because it's such barefaced victim-blaming. As the teacher, Hagrid is responsible for making sure his instructions are adequate and heard by everyone, not just his favorite students. As the expert on wild animals he's supposed to respect the animals enough not to throw a bunch of totally unprepared kids at them. As the adult, it's his job to anticipate any dumb moves and mistakes the kids might make. In short, he's supposed to minimize risk. How badly does he fail? You could pick a guy off the street whose only experience of wild animals was a few episodes of Crocodile Hunter, and he'd probably do better than Hagrid. If a Muggle biology teacher made his students go inside a tiger cage, I doubt the judge would be impressed by the defense claiming he should be cleared of all charges because if that one kid hadn't stepped on the tiger's paw, they might have got away unscathed.

Hagrid’s class isn’t really going over well, so Harry has to step in to back him up.

Heh, I remember when I thought this was a layered narrative. My original reading went more or less thus: Hagrid's class is a failure because the students are terrified of the hippogriffs, but on a deeper level it's because the Slytherins are alienated. That a big baby like Hagrid looks to a friend to help him out is understandable, but it makes things worse wrt the Slytherins because his friend happens to be the most privileged Gryffindor ever. The ride is the coolest part of the hippogriff lesson, and who gets it? Famous Harry Potter, who else. When Malfoy calls the hippogriff names, in evident relief that it didn't kill him, it seems like the sort of nervous reaction when people who've been scared need to assert themselves and regain their pride. And maybe, just maybe he wouldn't have felt the need to do that if there'd been a thoughtful teacher involved, who gave Malfoy the first ride as a friendly gesture towards the Slytherins. (Leaving aside the fact that a thoughtful teacher would have made damn sure he knew it understood human speech.)

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It is funny because she writes as if she likes seeing both sides. There are just so many juicy scenes where people have conflicts that tear fandom apart and get them to take sides. But it seems like almost if not all of them ultimately get an official response as if it was always obviously. Which I guess says something to her as an author that no matter how she feels she still writes the other side believably, but still, it's disappointing when it happens.

[hello-aquitaine.livejournal.com]

"The fog in the room makes Harry feel sleepy and stupid. Which might be the most self-aware Harry has ever been."

Oh that's so mean. I love it:P

Lol, poor Draco. Six chapters into the book and he's already lying in a pool of his own blood. I suspect JKR is pants at French and meant it to be Bad Luck, not Bad Faith.

BTW, is the Boogeyman really swinging a dead polecat? Because that's totally foreshadowing! Not only it's a ferret-like creature, but both Harry and Hagrid know very well that Draco is a coward (see: PS) and in Polish "polecat"="tchórz"="coward". I don't care she doesn't know it, her Collective Unconscious wrote it:P

That's what Hagrid is doing in this school: he's Dumbledore's Secret Weapon with only one purpose: kill off the unworthy.

I mean, he obviously doesn't teach and I believe his knowledge about magical creatures is overestimated. For example, I don't think hippogriffs are proud. They simply have authoritarian personality. Gryffindors get authoritarian submission, Slytherin gets authoritarian aggression. Just the way JKR likes it.

"Also, weird as it sounds, Malfoy spends the rest of his school career listening very carefully in CoMC. Which I’m sure is a sign of cowardice? But is actually one of the book’s only examples of someone learning something from a mistake!"

Well, he's the only one who always has to pay for his mistakes, so it figures. Seriously, she was dousing him with cold water so often that halfway through OotP I started to be afraid he'd catch pneumonia (and then she went and wrote HBP). I think this is why she let Malfoys go free in the interview. Even she recognised that throwing one more stone would be overdoing it... so she at least let him have both his parents where he wanted, much in a way my grandma, who loathes stray cats, throws them something to eat when they look too forlorn.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

LOL! OMG, Draco is totally a stray cat. Though I sometimes also suspect that she doesn't want any other characters having dead parents. (Teddy not really being a character.)

It is kind of interesting to think about the kind of teacher Hagrid is. He loves animals, but he'd actually be giving you a really anthropomorphized, biased view of them.