deathtocapslock | Neville's accident in his first potions class.

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Neville's accident in his first potions class.

It seems clear that Neville's cauldron- and shoe- melting reverse-effect potion was the result of a strong surge of magic as well as merely adding porcupine quills a little soon. But what emotion could have prompted such a surge? Fear, presumably, that's what normally seems to inspire Neville's outbreaks to date. But what could have prompted a surge of fear--strong fear, maybe panic--right at that point in the class?

It obviously wasn't anything the professor was doing, he wasn't even near the boy, He wasn't hovering over Neville making him nervous, or insulting Neville's technique. Canon tells us that Snape was across the room, "telling everyone to look at the perfect way Malfoy had stewed his horned slugs, when..."

Unless, of course, that was the trigger.

Neville had spent years being terrorized, nearly killed, by his family to "force some magic out of me." But they were satisfied by ANY display of magical power. Snape? First Snape makes the dunderhead comment, then he demonstrates that he expects his students to remember what they've read, and now he makes it absolutely clear that only "perfection" counts as a satisfactory performance. Algie, Augusta, Enid, can be pacified by a random magical outburst; the professor demands absolute competence as well as power.

Of course Neville freaks, and proceeds to demonstrate instantly that yes indeed, a panicked random magical outlash will get him in trouble in Professor Snape's class (and maybe in school in general), rather than getting him off the hook as it did at home. To an abused kid who expects to be killed for nonperformance, all of a sudden school (or at least this class) is more dangerous than home--the bar is higher, insurmountably high.

Insight courtesy of potionpen/nightfall rising.

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F*&k Neville's family. Yes, even Augusta.

Especially Augusta!

[ed. to correct typo.]

Edited 2015-01-30 01:00 (UTC)

Indeed.

One of the things I highly dislike about canon is the way that Neville's family was almost completely let off the hook for their treatment of him. The boy was abused - indeed, his relatives attempted to kill him, as you pointed out. Many times. (Much as I dislike comparing one person's misfortune to another's, it may be noted that Harry's relatives at least never outright attempted to kill him. And we have no idea [unless I'm forgetting something] how Neville was treated outside of murder attempts. He may well have received equal mistreatment.) Some acknowledgment of this would have been nice.

It's Okay If A Gryffindor Family Does It.

Outside of murder attempts we see his grandmother constantly belittling him and being exasperated with him, until he becomes leader of the resistance. Even after the battle in the Department of Mysteries the most Augusta was willing to say of Neville was that he was a friend of Harry's, the real hero.

Incidentally, I happen to know that there exists a fanfic that has it Draco had a sibling who was killed for being a squib, and this is supposed to make the Malfoys look bad. Yet we know that Neville's family, at least, thinks nothing of doing the exact same thing, and this seems to get almost no attention from the fandom!

Now I'm imagining an AU where harry was given to the Longbottoms to be raised with Neville. I think it might have become a Dudley/Harry situation, with Harry in Dudley's place.

I trust everyone has seen Terri's story "Folly," in which Snape rescues five-year-old Neville after Algie throws him off Blackpool Pier, and ends up passing him off as his own recently-discovered bastard son. It's a work in progress, and has just reached the point where Snape has informed Dumbledore of his new family situation, and Dumbles suggests the respectable old-fashioned solution (and not so old-fashioned in 1985, either) of giving his son up to a proper foster family, preferably in France.

New chapters, Terri? Please?

While I think you might be onto something in regards to Draco's slugs being a trigger for EXTRA magic, I don't agree that it was the reason Neville made the mistake.

And I disagree that Snape has suddenly set the bar insurmountably high. Maybe in Neville's mind he has, but Snape didn't say anything about Draco's 'perfect' slugs being merely satisfactory and I don't recall him saying anything about anyone else's potion at all - neither good or bad. I do not see his pointing out someone's perfect technique as equivalent to "...only 'perfection' counts as a satisfactory performance"

Neville might see it the way you suggest, but Snape doesn't react to Neville having a magical outburst. He knows exactly what caused the failure. I think that IF the failure was really that different to count more as accidental magic than a mistake in brewing then it would not have been so obvious to Snape exactly what Neville did wrong.

In other words, I think the same result would have happened, but perhaps Neville's magic made it a bigger mess? One where the other students were at risk of getting the potion on them and had to therefore get on their chairs. That sounds like a rather large spillover.

One interesting thing to note about the timing - the porcupine quills are presumably the last ingredient since they must be added AFTER removing from the flame (altho' I suppose it's possible that much of the potion is finished off the fire - or that the cauldron goes back on the fire after the quills are integrated) - but Neville is ahead in the recipe since Draco is still at the stewing slugs stage.

Was Neville rushing through the process? Is that why he made the mistake? The instructions are on the board. Was it more likely that Snape (who posts the improved book recipes on the board) never mentioned just how important it was to remove the cauldron from the fire before adding the quills? Or that Neville didn't notice/remember the warning because he was rushing?

"Was Neville rushing through the process? Is that why he made the mistake? The instructions are on the board. Was it more likely that Snape (who posts the improved book recipes on the board) never mentioned just how important it was to remove the cauldron from the fire before adding the quills? Or that Neville didn't notice/remember the warning because he was rushing?"

Speaking as someone who's taken tons of chemistry classes and labs, I think it might just be that this potion is finicky and has to be timed closely, so that even if your timing is off a little you still screw up. That's true of pretty much every organic-chemistry experiment, and a good many others too.

I doubt Severus would start first year students off on something particularly finicky. Harry describes it as 'a simple potion to cure boils'.

I agree. It seems as if the only way one CAN mess up this potion (other than using the wrong ingredients) is by putting in the quills while the cauldron is still on the fire.

Perhaps this can be explained as panicked!Neville having the quills in hand and dropping them into the cauldron in his fit of fear?

Edited 2015-01-31 04:42 (UTC)

I think he would have made the mistake with or without Snape's comment on Draco's slugs - altho' I agree that the reason it was such an extreme reaction might be due to a magic surge.

Why would you have the quills in your hands at all if you're preparing to remove a hot cauldron from the fire? Not really a smart thing to do without both hands.

Altho' I will accept that pureblood Neville has probably never had to lift a pot full of something hot before - so possible. But a cauldron is heavy enough empty for one to want to use both hands.

Edited 2015-02-03 19:26 (UTC)

A very interesting insight, which sheds more light on why he might be scared of Snape. It's kind of interesting that this doesn't come up with his other teachers, though, since presumably they didn't think he was up to par either (if anything, you'd think Professor McGonagall might remind him of his own relatives more, since like his grandmother she's an older woman, and stern). Is it just because Harry is too oblivious to notice when a fellow student is intimidated unless it's by a teacher he personally dislikes?

And I can easily see how, even if Snape doesn't intend it as such, Neville might get the message that only perfection is good enough. I'm a perfectionist myself, though I was never abused, so I know what it's like to freak out because you don't think you're performing up to par, and to feel as though you're not good enough unless you're perfect.

Edited 2015-01-30 16:14 (UTC)

Yes, but IF Neville is a perfectionist, I doubt it would be in the realm of magic, since he apparently thinks himself a failure at it. I can easily see him becoming a perfectionist in everything else he does, as an attempt to make up for his perceived inadequacies But I doubt he is determined to be 'perfect' at magic at this point - more just hoping to be less bad at it.

Neville’s Gran is disappointed in him, but it’s his Uncle Algie who puts him in life-threatening situations. Of Neville’s male teachers, Flitwick’s small size makes him unthreatening, Quirrel and Lockhart are obviously incompetent, while Lupin and Fake Moody go out of their way to conciliate Neville. That leaves stern, perfectionist Snape to push Neville’s “Uncle Algie” buttons by expecting him to perform magic on demand, and do so reliably. Snape doesn’t have to be a bully to freak out Neville; he just has to be a strict, demanding adult wizard. McGonagall is a strict, demanding adult witch, but witches don’t dangle Neville out of windows.

I don’t think the fact that Snape rarely gives praise is a problem for Neville. Like Snape, but unlike the Golden Trio, Neville is a Northern lad. In their part of the country, “Not bad” is recognized as the epitome of praise. Hermione is frustrated when her abilities aren’t recognized, and Harry is used to being a teacher’s pet, but Neville knows better. That makes Snape’s description of Draco’s stewed slugs as “perfect” all the more striking.

If it's his uncle who dangles him from the window, and not his great-uncle, Augusta's brother or brother-in-law, Snape would be somewhere near the same age as Algie, too. Neville doesn't have problems with Lupin, but then, Lupin's trying to be chummy with the kids, unlike Snape, who is being authoritarian and, perhaps to Neville's mind, disapproving.

I used ‘uncle’ instead of ‘great-uncle’ for conciseness. I know Algie is the same generation as Augusta. Bearing in mind the custom of of early wizarding marriage, both could easily be in their fifties. To an eleven-year-old, all adults are just adults. Particularly when we take into account the extended wizarding lifespan, thirty-one-year-old Snape and fifty-five-year-old Algie would just read as ‘grown-ups’ to little Neville.

Augusta is very likely close in age with Minerva, considering that Minerva knew in detail what her grades were like and what her magical strengths and weaknesses were. The Pottermore age for Minerva was close enough to my estimate - has her at 21 when she started teaching in December 1956, so 55 in September 1990 (just about to turn 56 the following month).

No idea how Neville saw them, but to Harry Quirrel is a young man, whereas Severus is not. People start appearing old to Harry when their hair turns gray. Not sure if we saw other descriptors that catch his attention. Neville might have different standards.

And yet, Snape is only 31, which should be considered more or less 'young'. So you recall where in the book Harry referred to Quirrel as young? It would be very telling if it was during the opening feast when they were sitting right next to each other.

For Quirrel to have been on sabbatical the previous year, he must have at least taught the year before that. And while it isn't impossible for him to have begun immediately after finishing his schooling, it seems unlikely. Altho' I must admit that for Tom to think he had a chance at immediately becoming a teacher after Hogwarts, they must not require any additional schooling before teaching. So, Quirrel COULD be just 20 and there's always the possibility that he still looks like a teenager.

Even so, Quirrel is only about 10 years younger than Snape. Therefore, I think Quirrel must look younger than his age.

And BTW - that still peeves me about Minerva's age (and Albus'). It sticks in my craw for JKR to give us a 'spritely 70' and 150 - telling us how magicals live much longer than us - only to change it all after the books are done.

I suppose she meant to show us that Snape wasn't the first young teacher or perhaps to make her inexperienced enough that we forgive her overlooking the marauders' behavior.

Quirrell is first described as 'a pale young man' when Harry meets him at the Leaky Cauldron. Later at the feast Harry spots him from where he was waiting to be Sorted 'Harry spotted Professor Quirrell, too, the nervous young man from the Leaky Cauldron.' I'm wondering if Quirrell's mannerism gave him a younger appearance.

Maybe Quirrel has a baby face. Snape, on the other hand, seems to have the opposite of a baby face. He probably looked like he was at least in his mid-thirties ever since he filled out enough to stop looking like a scrawny teenager. Neville's reaction to Snape is emotional: a demanding grown-up wizard wants him to do magic. He's not going to be making fine distinctions as to exactly how grown up the wizard is. It's: threat, panic, produce magic.

I understand what you mean, but it's surprising to me that Neville picks potions as being magically-demanding - especially after Snape's intro speech about 'foolish wand waving'. It makes it sound as if one doesn't need magic at all (not that I see that as accurate - it just doesn't require a wand)

Of course Flitwick isn't exactly threatening looking and Quirrel's stutter makes him seem harmless - so Snape is really the only male teacher appropriate to fixate on. And it is MUCH safer for Neville to fix his fear on someone outside the family.

But I have always wondered why Neville didn't feel put a little at ease by Snape's 'aconite' question?

Maybe Neville didn't develop his interest in plants until he started taking Herbology and learned he had a talent for it.

(deleted comment)

/I think that Snape could've pranced in that classroom in a purple polka-dotted tutu, smiling madly and strewing daisies over the children, and Neville would *still* have been terrified of him./

Uh...I must admit that 'I' would be terrified by that sight! 'snicker'

I'm not sure I would agree that this is a canon scenario (Slytherin Hate), but it does seem quite plausible. Presumably, if Slughorn had still been teaching then HE would have scared Neville just as much.

Not too sure how much Augusta would know about Snape since we have no idea what ages Frank or Alice might be and it seems unlikely that it was well known that Snape was a DE (Bella was pretty peeved that he didn't need to 'participate').

That said - I agree that it is possible for there to be a fear for ANY and ALL Slytherins.

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