[identity profile] terri-testing.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock
It seems clear that Neville's cauldron- and shoe- melting reverse-effect potion was the result of a strong surge of magic as well as merely adding porcupine quills a little soon.  But what emotion could have prompted such a surge?  Fear, presumably, that's what normally seems to inspire Neville's outbreaks to date.  But what could have prompted a surge of fear--strong fear, maybe panic--right at that point in the class?


It obviously wasn't anything the professor was doing, he wasn't even near the boy, He wasn't hovering over Neville making him nervous, or insulting Neville's technique.  Canon tells us that Snape was across the room, "telling everyone to look at the perfect way Malfoy had stewed his horned slugs, when..."

Unless, of course, that was the trigger.

Neville had spent years being terrorized, nearly killed, by his family to "force some magic out of me."  But they were satisfied by ANY display of magical power.  Snape?  First Snape makes the dunderhead comment, then he demonstrates that he expects his students to remember what they've read, and now he makes it absolutely clear that only "perfection" counts as a satisfactory performance.  Algie, Augusta, Enid, can be pacified by a random magical outburst; the professor demands absolute competence as well as power.

Of course Neville freaks, and proceeds to demonstrate instantly that yes indeed, a panicked random magical outlash will get him in trouble in Professor Snape's class (and maybe in school in general), rather than getting him off the hook as it did at home.  To an abused kid who expects to be killed for nonperformance, all of a sudden school (or at least this class) is more dangerous than home--the bar is higher, insurmountably high.

Insight courtesy of potionpen/nightfall rising.

Date: 2015-01-31 04:58 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
Neville’s Gran is disappointed in him, but it’s his Uncle Algie who puts him in life-threatening situations. Of Neville’s male teachers, Flitwick’s small size makes him unthreatening, Quirrel and Lockhart are obviously incompetent, while Lupin and Fake Moody go out of their way to conciliate Neville. That leaves stern, perfectionist Snape to push Neville’s “Uncle Algie” buttons by expecting him to perform magic on demand, and do so reliably. Snape doesn’t have to be a bully to freak out Neville; he just has to be a strict, demanding adult wizard. McGonagall is a strict, demanding adult witch, but witches don’t dangle Neville out of windows.

I don’t think the fact that Snape rarely gives praise is a problem for Neville. Like Snape, but unlike the Golden Trio, Neville is a Northern lad. In their part of the country, “Not bad” is recognized as the epitome of praise. Hermione is frustrated when her abilities aren’t recognized, and Harry is used to being a teacher’s pet, but Neville knows better. That makes Snape’s description of Draco’s stewed slugs as “perfect” all the more striking.

Date: 2015-02-02 01:26 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] seductivedark.livejournal.com
If it's his uncle who dangles him from the window, and not his great-uncle, Augusta's brother or brother-in-law, Snape would be somewhere near the same age as Algie, too. Neville doesn't have problems with Lupin, but then, Lupin's trying to be chummy with the kids, unlike Snape, who is being authoritarian and, perhaps to Neville's mind, disapproving.

Date: 2015-02-02 03:30 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
I used ‘uncle’ instead of ‘great-uncle’ for conciseness. I know Algie is the same generation as Augusta. Bearing in mind the custom of of early wizarding marriage, both could easily be in their fifties. To an eleven-year-old, all adults are just adults. Particularly when we take into account the extended wizarding lifespan, thirty-one-year-old Snape and fifty-five-year-old Algie would just read as ‘grown-ups’ to little Neville.

Date: 2015-02-02 03:05 pm (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Augusta is very likely close in age with Minerva, considering that Minerva knew in detail what her grades were like and what her magical strengths and weaknesses were. The Pottermore age for Minerva was close enough to my estimate - has her at 21 when she started teaching in December 1956, so 55 in September 1990 (just about to turn 56 the following month).

No idea how Neville saw them, but to Harry Quirrel is a young man, whereas Severus is not. People start appearing old to Harry when their hair turns gray. Not sure if we saw other descriptors that catch his attention. Neville might have different standards.

Date: 2015-02-02 10:30 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
And yet, Snape is only 31, which should be considered more or less 'young'. So you recall where in the book Harry referred to Quirrel as young? It would be very telling if it was during the opening feast when they were sitting right next to each other.

For Quirrel to have been on sabbatical the previous year, he must have at least taught the year before that. And while it isn't impossible for him to have begun immediately after finishing his schooling, it seems unlikely. Altho' I must admit that for Tom to think he had a chance at immediately becoming a teacher after Hogwarts, they must not require any additional schooling before teaching. So, Quirrel COULD be just 20 and there's always the possibility that he still looks like a teenager.

Even so, Quirrel is only about 10 years younger than Snape. Therefore, I think Quirrel must look younger than his age.

And BTW - that still peeves me about Minerva's age (and Albus'). It sticks in my craw for JKR to give us a 'spritely 70' and 150 - telling us how magicals live much longer than us - only to change it all after the books are done.

I suppose she meant to show us that Snape wasn't the first young teacher or perhaps to make her inexperienced enough that we forgive her overlooking the marauders' behavior.

Date: 2015-02-03 05:44 am (UTC)
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
Quirrell is first described as 'a pale young man' when Harry meets him at the Leaky Cauldron. Later at the feast Harry spots him from where he was waiting to be Sorted 'Harry spotted Professor Quirrell, too, the nervous young man from the Leaky Cauldron.' I'm wondering if Quirrell's mannerism gave him a younger appearance.

Date: 2015-02-03 06:39 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
Maybe Quirrel has a baby face. Snape, on the other hand, seems to have the opposite of a baby face. He probably looked like he was at least in his mid-thirties ever since he filled out enough to stop looking like a scrawny teenager. Neville's reaction to Snape is emotional: a demanding grown-up wizard wants him to do magic. He's not going to be making fine distinctions as to exactly how grown up the wizard is. It's: threat, panic, produce magic.

Date: 2015-02-03 07:23 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
I understand what you mean, but it's surprising to me that Neville picks potions as being magically-demanding - especially after Snape's intro speech about 'foolish wand waving'. It makes it sound as if one doesn't need magic at all (not that I see that as accurate - it just doesn't require a wand)

Of course Flitwick isn't exactly threatening looking and Quirrel's stutter makes him seem harmless - so Snape is really the only male teacher appropriate to fixate on. And it is MUCH safer for Neville to fix his fear on someone outside the family.

But I have always wondered why Neville didn't feel put a little at ease by Snape's 'aconite' question?

Date: 2015-02-03 07:51 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] jana-ch.livejournal.com
Maybe Neville didn't develop his interest in plants until he started taking Herbology and learned he had a talent for it.
(deleted comment)

Date: 2015-02-04 07:04 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] hwyla.livejournal.com
/I think that Snape could've pranced in that classroom in a purple polka-dotted tutu, smiling madly and strewing daisies over the children, and Neville would *still* have been terrified of him./

Uh...I must admit that 'I' would be terrified by that sight! 'snicker'

I'm not sure I would agree that this is a canon scenario (Slytherin Hate), but it does seem quite plausible. Presumably, if Slughorn had still been teaching then HE would have scared Neville just as much.

Not too sure how much Augusta would know about Snape since we have no idea what ages Frank or Alice might be and it seems unlikely that it was well known that Snape was a DE (Bella was pretty peeved that he didn't need to 'participate').

That said - I agree that it is possible for there to be a fear for ANY and ALL Slytherins.

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