OotP Chapter Eighteen

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

*Recently I remember somebody saying something about even how when Harry is upset he's still so kind that he's sweet to animals. In fact Harry is as careless about animals in his anger as he is about people. He's obnoxious to Hedwig and apologizes, and here he squeezes a bullfrog violently, much like he squeezed the bowtruckle. No, I'm not accusing him of animal abuse, but he's no Francis of Assisi either, as I remember him being described. He's nice to animals when the text is making a point about how awful people are mean to animals, and then the text forgets about it.

*Speaking of animals, the class is practicing charms on animals that are quite annoyed at them for doing it, but that doesn't count as being mean to animals.

*Hermione is practicing her silencio charm, which will later completely disarm DEs, the idea being that clever underdogs with less power can outwit far more sophisticated enemies, though what comes across is more that DEs fight so kids can beat them.

*Are we honestly supposed to believe nobody ever thought of silencing somebody so they couldn't do a spell? I'm surprised this isn't a common Wizarding Punishment for crimes. How exactly do adults fight if not by doing stuff like this? There's not that much stuff that's required in fighting, after all.

*Of course, if you go down that road you start wondering why anybody fights using anything but AK, expelliarimus and stupefy.

*Harry is only especially gifted in cool magic, while Hermione continues to surpass him in all things banal. To review: the twins do flashy things that are of no use to anyone (except they really are), Hermione does non-flashy stuff that's very useful, Harry does everything connected to angst and evil. Ron's just generally useless. Oh, and Ginny does the bat-bogey hex which is more awesome than everyone else except Harry's stuff combined.

*Angelina says she thinks McGonogall went to Dumbledore, who then forced Umbridge let Gryffindor reform the Quidditch team, as if that's a great thing for Dumbledore to do, proving his awesomeness. You know, as headmaster shouldn't Dumbledore being looking out for these kinds of things anyway? Should somebody really have to go to him and demand this? You'd think the whole school would be petitioning him.

*What to make of Hermione's sudden misgivings about the DA? As a character trait for Hermione that works--she's always thinking and insecure underneath so questions herself (unless somebody challenges her, in which case she's stubborn and won't listen). But in this book it feels to me like another handy way to use Hermione to herd thought processes. She makes up the club, but then must also be the person to question the club while everybody else just reacts to her, because Harry and Ron are too dull-witted to think at all.

*So checking off Hermione's "Expositional To Do" list, now she's got the DA established she can start dropping hints that Something's Coming with Sirius, etc.

*If Hermione more often questioned along the same lines I am, I'd probably find this more satisfying.

*Hermione sounds like Ron's mother, according to Ron. ::shudder::

*We're not in fanon anymore. The kids can't just do an umbrella spell so they don't get rained on.

*Seriously, Wizards came up with spell to make people dance or turn their legs to jelly, but nobody's come up with an umbrella spell. The Wizarding World in a nutshell.

*Last year Harry could feel when Voldemort was feeling hatred; now he can feel his joy too. Are they just more connected now or is that significant? Like, is there something to the fact that Harry can feel Voldemort's joy, like that they're becoming more alike? ETA: Yes, they did become more alike, but I don't think I was supposed to notice.

*I hope Voldemort's feeling Harry's feelings too. Imagine being stuck with a teenager's mood swings: "He's feeling pleased…somebody likes him." "He's in a snit. Nobody understands him." No wonder he wants Harry dead. It's like being mentally linked to Pitt the Younger from Blackadder.

* "The Weapon" is back, taunting us with a far more interesting plan that the one Voldemort is actually using. Damn that weapon!

* I kind of keep wishing the elves would rebel—but only to tell Hermione to stop intentionally cluttering up the Common Room that they have to clean. ETA: Rebel? Nonsense! Happy masters make happy slaves make happy children!

*This was also where in my first reading I thought we'd find out Sirius or Harry or Neville was being befuddled. Is that information about befuddlement there for future developments, or just so Harry can drift off to sleep thinking about Sirius being reckless? ETA: Guess we got that answer--it's the latter.

*I guess that's why Harry never actually accepts the fact that his own mistakes led to Sirius' death since as usual the real answer is right here for us. It wasn't Snape's fault, but it wasn't Harry's either. It was Sirius' fault because he's very very reckless.

*Dobby the Free Elf has so much more dignity than Kreacher the rebellious slave, the way he looks up at Harry with "positive admiration" and bows so that his nose touches the floor. See, Hermione knows the score here. Forcing someone into slavery isn't that great. Much better to have someone who bows and scrapes and does your bidding just because they adore you because you made them free. ETA: Or gave them a cheap necklace. Kreacher, you're still dead to me.

*Props to Harry here for being smart enough not to run off to see the RoR the second he hears about it, even if he has to hear Hermione's voice to do it.

*I can sort of understand Hermione/Snape when you see the kind of relationship she has to authority. Hermione feels mostly confident about something when a Good Adult (usually Dumbledore) is attached to it, which is more about emotion than logic. Which is good, because if you're really relying only on your brains, you're probably evil. The heart does much better thinking.

*However, this quality also makes her seem younger than 16, because it seems like the same impulse she had at 11. ETA: On second thought, it just makes her seem like a Wizard. The end of this journey is the same as the beginning: look up to Dumbledore. And then look up to Harry.

*Does the map show where everybody in the school is? I'm surprised you can find anybody with the hundreds of dots that must be moving around. ETA: After HBP I guess we know that it does show everybody. I'm surprised you can read anything on it.

*There's no mention of a solitary Draco practicing piano somewhere, so apparently it doesn't pick up fanon characters.

*Nice that all the books in the room are careful to imply these books are for people being attacked by others. I'm surprised there wasn't one called, "Cursing for Good Guys" of "Everything is Self-Defense If I'm Doing It."

*What is a dark wizard, exactly? Dark detectors are supposed to be able to tell—would it go off if one of the Slytherins walked in? Is anyone ever surprised to set one off? (Harry's used an Unforgivable, for instance—and what about Snape? He's described as a Dark Wizard.) ETA: Well, that won't ever be answered. Dark Magic? It's what those other people do!

*Harry mentions how the detectors can be fooled, because like so much else it's all-powerful but also totally useless as the plot demands.

*Hermione insists on giving Harry authority, because Gryffs love authority when they're the ones possessing it. Hermione also wants to name the group for "team spirit." You know, that thing that's so useful in singling out traitors and pressuring people to go along with the crowd.

*Note nobody says, "Wtf do we need a leader and team spirit for? We're not a team, we're here to learn DADA. Piss off with your team spirit."

*Can you imagine the way the Gryffindors would have reacted if the group had elected somebody else? As if any of them would bow to Terry Boot.

*Ginny comes up with the name Dumbledore's Army and everybody laughs cause she so rebellious and cool and witty. Not to mention right. Defense Association is far too neutral. This is an army for Dumbledore.

*At the next meeting perhaps they'll hand out the uniforms. Hufflepuffs? You get the red shirts.

*Hermione pins the damn paper with that title to the wall, for easy reference once they get caught. I'm sure whoever finds it will know it's meant to be sarcastic.

*Harry shuts up Zach Smith by revealing expelliarimus helped him against Voldemort. Yes, Zach just opens his mouth "stupidly" after claiming that charm wouldn't help against Voldemort. What else can he say? Harry Potter pwns all!

*But again, WHY would anyone think that Expelliarimus wouldn't work? What are all these other spells the DEs are supposed to be using? Wouldn't that spell either be something everybody used or the DEs had a good defense against? It's like if this was a Muggle class and Harry said, "Let's work on punching," and Zach said, "THAT won't be much good in a fight! Bad guys don't merely HIT people!" just so Harry could say he hitting does indeed help against bad guys.

*I have this image, when Zach opens his mouth stupidly, of him thinking, "Why do I always have to feed lines to challenge Harry, only to be shocked into silence by Harry's easily anticipated response?" And people think once thought Zacharias Smith was Canon's answer to Fanon!Draco, Ice King of the bon mots?

* Usually Neville can't even perform a charm, much less focus it on something as small as a wand. Harry's mere presence fills him with that elusive confidence he needed. Only bad kids truly lack skill.

*WTF is with all the hostility toward Zach? I hate to think what might happen if, as in fanfic, Slytherins showed up to this thing. They'd have to wash them off the walls.

*Not that I can't see the twins doing this, but you'd think Zach would, uh, notice. His needing Harry to figure out the twins are hexing him and put a stop to it is a little emasculating, wouldn't you say?

*Btw, no, it's not bad of the twins to be hexing him from behind at all. They can obviously tell he's the kind of person who'll push tiny children out of the way in his cowardly race away from the bad guys. Can't you just tell how cowardly Zach is in this scene?

*If I were Marietta I'd look sour too, dragged along to this meeting so I could watch Harry and Cho butter each other up. I wonder just what their relationship is that she's willing to do this for Cho. Cho seems like a very high-maintenance friend. Marietta's probably already sat up with her nights, slipped her in after curfew and accompanied her to a free clinic for a pregnancy test by now. No wonder Cho feels guilty enough to defend her—she probably was privy to the stress Marietta was under all year. Cho here tells Harry flat-out that Marietta is getting pressured by her parents to have nothing to do with stuff like this (Cho's family don't seem to work for the Ministry).

*Not that this makes any impression on Harry. I think when Cho talks about Marietta and her problems and her family Harry just hears, "blah blah blah blah blah. You make me nervous."

I seemed to have forgotten Jabootu for this one. Go figure.

Comments

[ishtar79.livejournal.com]

*Hermione sounds like Ron's mother, according to Ron. ::shudder::

In the HP books, everyone gets to marry their mum, yay!

*There's no mention of a solitary Draco practicing piano somewhere, so apparently it doesn't pick up fanon characters.

*sporfle*


*If I were Marietta I'd look sour too, dragged along to this meeting so I could watch Harry and Cho butter each other up. I wonder just what their relationship is that she's willing to do this for Cho. Cho seems like a very high-maintenance friend. Marietta's probably already sat up with her nights, slipped her in after curfew and accompanied her to a free clinic for a pregnancy test by now.

Aw man, I've had friends like that in school. Poor Marietta. :(

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It's sad how I long for that solitary Draco on his piano.

[mizbean.livejournal.com]

*At the next meeting perhaps they'll hand out the uniforms. Hufflepuffs? You get the red shirts.

LOL!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Somebody had to say it. Of course now that makes me think of Draco's red shirt with "Hufflepuff '98" on it--"You said to dress like a victim!"

[papier.livejournal.com]

Even when I first read the book I always imagined Marietta to be the proverbial lesbian stalker-friend (the only way JKR would probably be able to portray a lesbian). I mean, she seems to be the only person who doesn't mind listening to Cho talk about Cedric, (which, let's face it, must be a recurring topic when they're together) she joins the DA to keep Cho company even though she's against the whole thing (but seems to be against Cho talking to Harry a lot more), doesn't seem to have any other friends, and by book 7 is nowhere to be seen (presumably she came out, got rejected and moved to Brighton with Eloise Midgeon during the war).

You know it makes sense. Rowling would only write a Gryffindor acting as a true friend with no ulterior motives.

Ginny comes up with the name Dumbledore's Army and everybody laughs cause she so rebellious and cool and witty.

Am I the only one who hears canned laughter everytime she says something "funny"?

[cleverthylacine]

No.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Nope.

Am I the only one who thinks Dumbledore's Army was a really stupid, completely not-witty, name?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Oh god, I love that now. Marietta/Eloise=OTP!!

[merrymelody.livejournal.com]

Heh, I was always quite fond of a Marietta fic that had her crushing on Cho but ending up hanging out with Pansy and the Slytherins: http://community.livejournal.com/alohomorare/2575.html

[j-lunatic.livejournal.com]

Dark Magic? It's what those other people do!

And when the series' designated Good Characters do the things those other people do, it's excusable if not "gallant."

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Yes, and even though it's explicitly tied to sadistic feelings, it couldn't possibly have any bad effect on you to do it. What you do couldn't possibly change who you are.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

But that's how it works in the real world. The US were gallant when they dropped nuclear bombs on Japan, because if they invaded Japan they'd have to kill a lot more. So really, they should have thanked the US for saving them all.

[aasaylva.livejournal.com]

Hermione does non-flashy stuff that's very useful, Harry does everything connected to angst and evil.
Ugh, that bugged me no end. It's as if Hermione was Harry's own personal Hufflepuff. Doing all the hard work, but all the glory going to Harry. I mean, what DOES Harry really do without her? In PS and CoS, he actually DID most of the action and even used his own brains occasionally; in PoA, they worked together (freeing buckback and Sirius; there was no figuring out of anything involved, as Pettigrew/Scabbers fell into their lap) and after that, it just went downhill towards Mummy Hermione thinking of everything and Harry just jumping out in the open when she pushed him.

*Dobby the Free Elf has so much more dignity than Kreacher the rebellious slave, the way he looks up at Harry with "positive admiration" and bows so that his nose touches the floor.
I am sorry, but these wishfulfillment fantasies are getting nauseating. Has anyone ever made a list of these in HP? It's got to be pages and pages, this one being number 45 reading "I want a devoted servant whose whole existence is wrapped up in tending to my every whim - but I want him to want to do it out of admiration for my true awsomeness so I don't have to have any moral qualms about it." In fact, JKR isn't the first one with these ideas - go and look at Agatha Christie or Dorothy Sayers for it...

*Hermione feels mostly confident about something when a Good Adult (usually Dumbledore) is attached to it, which is more about emotion than logic.
But WHY is she so confident in Dumbledore in the first place??? She didn't grow up with the Dubledore worship, after all. In her own experience, Dumbledore hired two DE and a complete fraud who even attacked children (Obliviate on Ron and Harry). He left students to sort out a basilisk (or was too dense to figure out what it was, when she herself did exactly that)etc. etc.!!!

ETA: Well, that won't ever be answered. Dark Magic? It's what those other people do!
It often seems like it, but there is a different current as well, which is even more irrational: Dark is, what Voldemort does (and Grindelwald before him, presumably). As far as I remember, Umbridge was never called a Dark witch, was she? The question is: when do you decide, someone is the epitome of Darkness? Usually, you'd think "by their deeds". But that's tautological, because, as we remember, the evaluation of some deeds depends heavily on who commited them...

*Can you imagine the way the Gryffindors would have reacted if the group had elected somebody else? As if any of them would bow to Terry Boot.
Or Zacharias Smith!!! I so want an AU with this!

*Not that I can't see the twins doing this, but you'd think Zach would, uh, notice. His needing Harry to figure out the twins are hexing him and put a stop to it is a little emasculating, wouldn't you say?
It just forshadows Harry's rescue mission of Draco in the same room in DH: Zach and Draco deserved the situation they were in, because they had brought it about themselves and Harry saves them, not because they deserve it, but out of pure mercy. He is the Christlike figure, after all.

*Not that this makes any impression on Harry. I think when Cho talks about Marietta and her problems and her family."
Of course not! Marietta HAS parents. She is no way as downtrodden by life as he is!

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>In fact, JKR isn't the first one with these ideas - go and look at Agatha Christie or Dorothy Sayers for it...<

Or Al Capp. I swear the House Elves seem to have cross-bred with schmoos.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think Hermione's forced drudgery for the boys really began in this book for me--though actually I think there's times in GoF where she's on the verge of cutting their meat for them. (We have to wait until DH where she's washing their underpants.) It's just ridiculous. Hermione can do everything that's actually useful, and Harry is literally there to just be the Chosen One.

It's weird because on one hand you think--is JKR trying to avoid Harry being too Mary Sue by pawning off all the intelligent and practical stuff that needs to be done on his sidekick? Or does she think it's uninteresting being in the head of somebody who's capable of engaging with the world in a competent way?

But WHY is she so confident in Dumbledore in the first place???

I swear the only two things I can think of--and I think one would be Doylist and one Watsonian if I ever actually understood what those terms meant and I'd love it if somebody would explain them to me so I get it right--is that either the character has some weird authority kink that can only be explained in fanfic...or else JKR seems to think that the smartest thing anybody could ever do would be to trust Dumbledore and follow his orders. Heaven knows intelligent adults seem to consider it a point of honor even when they should know better. Is it supposed to be a mark of having a good moral sense? Because it totally doesn't work. It's not like Frodo not killing Gollum partly because he knows Gandalf wouldn't like it. Gandalf is an angel. Dumbledore's a controlling, power-hungry, sexually repressed old man who's bad at plans.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

*Hermione pins the damn paper with that title to the wall, for easy reference once they get caught. I'm sure whoever finds it will know it's meant to be sarcastic.

No. 85 on the Plucky Rebel's List: If I start an illegal underground organization, I will not post the membership list on the wall for the storm troopers to find. I will write it on the bottom of a pizza for easy consumption should our hideout be discovered.

*Does the map show where everybody in the school is? I'm surprised you can find anybody with the hundreds of dots that must be moving around. ETA: After HBP I guess we know that it does show everybody. I'm surprised you can read anything on it.
I'll bet that the Marauders built in a feature to highlight the dot you want to follow, but Lupin forget to mention that to Harry.

BTW, I'm convinced that the Marauders made great use of that map in their campaign against all things Snape. It would have been perfect for tracking him, since his little dot was probably wandering around alone most of the time. (Had he not broken up with Lily in fifth year, they would have been seeing a lot of her dot and his dot close together, probably in otherwise empty classrooms....)

Maybe that moment in HBP when Snape claims it was "four-on-one" is accurate. Not James + Sirius + Lupin + Peter, but James + Sirius + Invisibiliy cloak + Map. Either way, Snape was completely outnumbered.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

One wonders what the kids even think they need the list for. We know it's actually there to punish them if they talk, but you'd think one of them would have questioned why you'd write down a list of everybody in your secret club if it was supposed to be secret.

It's scary to think of just how much the Marauders could have tormented Snape. They have so much endless power over him in so many ways. So many advantages.

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

Oh, and Ginny does the bat-bogey hex which is more awesome than everyone else except Harry's stuff combined.

Never underestimate the power of runny snot! It is the power he knows not. In fact it is the power everyone knows not because we never see the frickin, all-powerful magic in action.

What is a dark wizard, exactly?
A dark wizard is a wizard who asks questions. So Zacharias is evil incarnate and sure to become the new, improved Voldemort. Ask Ginny, she knows. Her special affinity for mucus allows her to sniff out those evildoers.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

That's it! You've finally figured out the symbolism of the snot!

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

To be fair, if physically batting animals around like the twins have been know to do isn't being mean, then simply practicing charms on them or annoying them is nothing. Except, of course, if you were sorted into Slytherin, in which case perhaps even looking at the animal is a sign of your innate cruelty.

True--it's not like they're mildly insulting or anything. That would be bad.

::sobs:: Oh, how I weep for the Kreacher that existed before DH, knowing what he will become--Dobby the II. Kreacher! Come back! Regain your dignity!

Finally got rid of the first one and another one pops up!

All clear? :-)

I think I'm getting it. I would be hexed a lot by these people if I were a Wizard, wouldn't I?

[(Anonymous)]

Hermione is practicing her silencio charm, which will later completely disarm DEs, the idea being that clever underdogs with less power can outwit far more sophisticated enemies, though what comes across is more that DEs fight so kids can beat them.

Outwit? Surely you jest. The only time the kids did anything remotely clever in battle was when they pulverized the prophecy shelves. Everything else was the good old wand-to-wand slug-out, where the enemies very considerately held back or were complete nitwits. And to be fair, a lot of folks seem to be able to perform spells silently - the twins do it in that very chapter. And of course DD, Voldy, Snape, McGonaggal, Flitwick, etc. It is just that somebody truly hostile only used it on the trio exactly once.

What cool magic can Harry do? Except for the Patronus, Hermione can do everything he can, but better and she'll learn that by the end of OoTP as well.

Well, we after OoTP know why they needed a leader - it wasn't about learning stuff at all, but about giving Harry an ego-sop. Otherwise everybody could have contributed spells that they can do best to the group. I bet that some of those 7th years had to know more than Harry! Even the twins know more in this chapter - they can do silent casting that Harry was never able to learn.

Harry shuts up Zach Smith by revealing expelliarimus helped him against Voldemort.

Neglecting to mention that it wouldn't help anybody else in similar circumstances, LOL! Go, Harry! Really, if you can zap somebody, why use this instead of stupefy that would remove an opponent from the fight completely?

Silly me, I thought that Marietta would provide an interesting digression on the matter of loyalty and on difficulty of discerning the right thing to do in muddled cicrumstances.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Everything else was the good old wand-to-wand slug-out, where the enemies very considerately held back or were complete nitwits.

That was considerate of them. And doubly considerate the way they get better at fighting when the adults show up so that the adults can look good.

What cool magic can Harry do? Except for the Patronus, Hermione can do everything he can, but better and she'll learn that by the end of OoTP as well.

He throws off Imperius which is the coolest cool thing ever! Or something...fear his awesome "O" in DADA!

What's ironic is that you could fill several books with things Hermione can do and Harry can't.

Otherwise everybody could have contributed spells that they can do best to the group.

Yes, except for Patronus Harry seem to be teaching them stuff they should already know. Why don't they have sessions where Hermione makes a list of stuff she learns and teaches to others? Or they let the 7th years have a go? Oh right, the ego sop.

Neglecting to mention that it wouldn't help anybody else in similar circumstances, LOL! Go, Harry!

I love that. If Harry actually told how he succeeded all those times, and they actually thought about, they'd realize they were screwed with him as a teacher. The best thing they could do would be to get their names on the cover of the book.

Silly me, I thought that Marietta would provide an interesting digression on the matter of loyalty and on difficulty of discerning the right thing to do in muddled cicrumstances.

I feel so silly about that too. These circumstances weren't muddled at all if you're Harry, and therefore are clear as glass!

[starzangelus.livejournal.com]

sistermagpie, I bow to you and your brilliance. I have nothing remotely useful to add except that this is genius. But I shall make mindless remarks, nonetheless. :P

*Hermione is practicing her silencio charm
I know who she could practice it on. *searches for Ginny*

*Hermione sounds like Ron's mother, according to Ron. ::shudder::
O_o And people wonder why I found their pairing odd...

Imagine being stuck with a teenager's mood swings:... No wonder he wants Harry dead.
^^Someone should so base a story off of this. I'd believe it.

*There's no mention of a solitary Draco practicing piano somewhere, so apparently it doesn't pick up fanon characters.
*laughs maniacally* Does the map show, you know... everything? O_o This is a school filled with angsty teenagers... or maybe things beyond kisses don't exist there. I'm still surprised Fred & George gave it away... oh, wait, but it was to Harry. How silly of me.

*What is a dark wizard, exactly?
A wizard with dark hair. I'm positive. Or flowing hair. That works, too, sometimes. *remembers that Voldemort has no hair* *curses* It's a hair thing, dammit.

*WTF is with all the hostility toward Zach? I hate to think what might happen if, as in fanfic, Slytherins showed up to this thing. They'd have to wash them off the walls.
I'm curious, if Slytherins had showed up at the meeting, would it still be called Dumbledore's Army? O_o Maybe that's why JKR didn't include them at all (there would go the oh-so-cool name). Would you want to go to a meeting whose members call themselves "Dumbledore's Army"? O_o

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Ha! No bowing required here!

I know who she could practice it on. *searches for Ginny*

LOL! Go Hermione, go!

When you think about it, it's funny that anybody wants to call themselves Dumbledore's Army. How many of those kids have ever seen the man except for his opening speeches? It's like starting a band and naming it after your principal--and not in an ironic way at all.

[lachlanm.livejournal.com]

sistermagpie: Last year Harry could feel when Voldemort was feeling hatred; now he can feel his joy too. Are they just more connected now or is that significant?

It is significant. In fact, it's destiny. Someone should write H/V fluff.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

OMG, somebody really really should!

[t0ra-chan.livejournal.com]

*Hermione is practicing her silencio charm, which will later completely disarm DEs, the idea being that clever underdogs with less power can outwit far more sophisticated enemies, though what comes across is more that DEs fight so kids can beat them.

I guess the problem is that before OotP, the trio never had to face more than one enemy at the time, all the while JKR build up the DEs to be this horrible gang of Dark Wizards. Now she had to find ways for the sextet not to be beaten within seconds, but having to hold their own against these people. Seriously, there is no reason why the DEs didn't just kill anyone but Harry, who only is allowed to survive because Voldie wants to kill him himself.

*Hermione sounds like Ron's mother, according to Ron. ::shudder::

It's even worse when you look at the way Molly treats Ron. No wonder he thinks that being (passive-) aggressive towards someone is a sign of love. After all, his Mum acts like that towards him, so that must be how it goes, right?

*Dobby the Free Elf has so much more dignity than Kreacher the rebellious slave, the way he looks up at Harry with "positive admiration" and bows so that his nose touches the floor. See, Hermione knows the score here. Forcing someone into slavery isn't that great. Much better to have someone who bows and scrapes and does your bidding just because they adore you because you made them free. ETA: Or gave them a cheap necklace. Kreacher, you're still dead to me.

I wonder what JKR is trying to say with Dobby. His life was complete shit, first he works for Masters that he hates, has to punish himself and when he finally gets free, he cannot find a job. When somebody finally takes him in, the other elves reject him, he ends up having to clean Gryffindor Tower alone, the person he adores ignores him in favor of another house elf and in the end he dies. Whereas Kreacher, who is responsible for Sirius death, gets more dignity, a reminder of his beloved master and ends up with a master he likes (even though it goes against any prior characterization). Also, when did Winky or Kreacher ever have to punish themselves? Either only the Malfoys bewitched their elves like this or Dobby is simply a masochist.

*Does the map show where everybody in the school is? I'm surprised you can find anybody with the hundreds of dots that must be moving around. ETA: After HBP I guess we know that it does show everybody. I'm surprised you can read anything on it.

The Map is just another thing that shows how unrealistic a Snape/Lily friendship was. Wouldn't MWPP or at least James have noticed their dots being rather close several times? Neither Remus nor Sirius mention anything about it. Never mind that nobody of the staff seemed to have any clue that these two were friends.

*Ginny comes up with the name Dumbledore's Army and everybody laughs cause she so rebellious and cool and witty. Not to mention right. Defense Association is far too neutral. This is an army for Dumbledore.

I don't get why JKR couldn't have given Ginny any actual witty lines if she wants her to be seen as funny. I mean, she can do better than that, she does it with Ron and the twins. Heck, Hermione had better funny lines than Ginny. Instead we get this unfunny crap that gets passed off as humour.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Seriously, there is no reason why the DEs didn't just kill anyone but Harry, who only is allowed to survive because Voldie wants to kill him himself.

And even that ran thin in the end. Voldemort would have totally won if he didn't have that odd need. Even Crabbe might have wound up taking Voldemort out. Although luckily in that scene he was stopped by Draco, who would have done that even without Voldemort's orders. (Not that this would make him in any way worth anything!)

It's even worse when you look at the way Molly treats Ron. No wonder he thinks that being (passive-) aggressive towards someone is a sign of love. After all, his Mum acts like that towards him, so that must be how it goes, right?

Yes, I hope Ron finds a Muggle therapist. He's with a girl because she's just like his mother...she makes him constantly feel like she'd rather be someone else.

Also, when did Winky or Kreacher ever have to punish themselves? Either only the Malfoys bewitched their elves like this or Dobby is simply a masochist.

I think Kreacher did when he tricked Sirius--he just did it offscreen. Oh, and he does in DH so Hermione can say how awful the enchantment is. Because that's what she's always been against from the beginning. The mistreating themselves. Not that they're slaves. Totally from the beginning. No change there.

The Map is just another thing that shows how unrealistic a Snape/Lily friendship was. Wouldn't MWPP or at least James have noticed their dots being rather close several times? Neither Remus nor Sirius mention anything about it. Never mind that nobody of the staff seemed to have any clue that these two were friends.

Maybe Lily made sure Snape kept it pretty secret because it was embarassing to her? (I would say Snape would have his own reasons for keeping it secret when he fell in with future Death Eaters, but we see him being pretty dramatically open about the whole thing.)

I think the problem with Ginny is that JKR can be funny when the situation actually brings something up and she just has somebody say something that's in character that happens to be funny. But Ginny just has to have "she's funny" as part of her character so she winds up just spouting off put-downs--which is somehow funnier when she does it than any time Draco or Pansy do it. And does not remind JKR of all the people who ever made fun of her in her life. (Maybe Ginny is all the things JKR thought in her mind against those other people!)

[(Anonymous)]

He's nice to animals when the text is making a point about how awful people are mean to animals, and then the text forgets about it.
Like those horrible Gringotts goblins in DH, who'd used heated swords to train the dragon. Wizards would never ever do such a thing. When they hurt dragons it's for entertainment.

*I can sort of understand Hermione/Snape when you see the kind of relationship she has to authority. Hermione feels mostly confident about something when a Good Adult (usually Dumbledore) is attached to it, which is more about emotion than logic.

You mean because Snape and Hermione have that attitude in common? Both of them do like hierarchies and orderly chains of command. I think with Snape there's some subconscious hope for a validating father figure, as well. Good luck with that when your choices are Voldemort and Dumbledore, co-founders of the Society for Poking Your Inferiors With Pointy Sticks. (Interestingly, every major decision young DH!Snape made was emotion-based, and look where it got him.)

OTOH, Hermione thinking with her heart chaps me. In PoA, the clash between her logic and the boys' gut thinking was an actual plot point. It seemed absolutely clear that she was just wired to use her brain first, and I don't recall that being presented as morally dubious.

* Usually Neville can't even perform a charm, much less focus it on something as small as a wand. Harry's mere presence fills him with that elusive confidence he needed.

Fancy me thinking Neville was profoundly conflicted about his magic and would have to work out his own way of coming to terms with it. No, he just needed to get out more and soak up some of Harry's awesome.

-L

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

You mean because Snape and Hermione have that attitude in common? Both of them do like hierarchies and orderly chains of command.

Originally I was thinking of it unrequited--like I could see Hermione fantasizing about Snape while in class. But Snape clearly has spent his life under authority figures too. Lupin is a rebel by comparison!

Where was Hermione's logical thinking vs. the boys' guts a plot point in PoA? (I don't mean I don't think it's true, I just want to be clear what exactly you mean to think about it.)

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

Oh, you've got to write this list! All you'd need is this series, honestly.

Actually, I've been waiting for some published and respected author (other than that narrow-minded curmudgeon, Harold Bloom - apologies to any Harold Bloom fans out there) to do for Rowling what Twain did for Cooper. I still laugh aloud every time I read that essay - especially those unfortunate Indians "laying" for the barge. And that shooting contest!

But you guys are doing a great job in the meantime, along with the folks at deadlyhollow.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

I don't know how this ended up down here. It was meant to apply to the Plucky Rebel's list.

Suggested Jabootu Scores

[cressida0201.livejournal.com]

The Avoid the Limbs Rule:
Hermione's "silencio" should be about that useful against experienced wizards who can do voiceless magic. (Any instances where it actually does work can be chalked up to the Exploitation Filmmaker's Credo: "Nobody will remember about wordless magic, so they'll believe this will stop the spellcasting!")

Informed Attributes:
Zacharias' questions are really, really annoying and bad and a sign that he's evil! Really! And Ginny is sooooo witty and cool too.

Misdirected Answering:
Why spend all this time establishing that "expelliarmus" actually is useful in a fight? We saw it in CoS and PoA already; never mind the special case of the graveyard in GoF.

"Watermelon, watermelon, cantaloupe, cantaloupe":
Most of the DA members fade into background murmur, with occasional dubbed-in lines from the "named characters."

Total: 5

Re: Suggested Jabootu Scores

[(Anonymous)]

Why spend all this time establishing that "expelliarmus" actually is useful in a fight? We saw it in CoS and PoA already; never mind the special case of the graveyard in GoF.

Well, it is good against people who can't fight their way out of the paper bag or don't expect an attack. Oh, and in "special cases". It usually leaves the person able to fight back physically too and even able to employ wandless magic. Why would anybody use it in self-defense instead of stupefy is not clear. People working in law enforcement using it in some specific cases during arrest, I could see.