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deathtocapslock2008-05-02 10:45 am
sistermagpie.livejournal.com) wrote in deathtocapslock2008-05-02 10:45 am
OotP Chapter Twenty-Eight
*OMG it’s Snape’s worzt memory!!11
*The Hogwarts rumor mill comes through again, passing around only information needed for the plot—go rumor mill! (And we know this rumor’s a good one because everybody’s coming to Harry for the accurate story…though I’m not sure exactly what that accurate story was for non-DA members)
*Hermione on Umbridge, viciously: "Oh, I expect she really fancied herself sitting up there in the Head’s office, lording it over the other teachers, the stupid, puffed-up, power-crazy old..." We’re all seeing that Umbridge totally=Hermione, right? I mean, Hermione’s not stupid or old, and she knows to stand behind the chair rather than sit in it (the man sits in the chair), but actually that's what Umbridge is doing anyway. She's doing it all for Fudge, remember?
*Draco’s now sliding out from behind things—cause he’s like a snake.
*I’m not even going to try to figure out just who can usually dock points and who can’t—is it only teachers, or can prefects not dock other prefects? I think we get the jist—Malfoy’s been given more power by Umbridge and this is a really bad thing.
*The point-taking scene was like an oasis to me the first time I read the book. Draco cracks me up in it, having so much fun being all lightly irritating, grrrr!
*Ironically, he’s still falling far short of Hermione’s dire warnings of all the stuff he was supposed to be doing to Harry as Prefect. The total sum of his damage here seems to be (gets out calculator), he takes away 30 points, 5 from Hufflepuff and 25 from Gryffindor, and makes me laugh (your shirt’s untucked, I don’t like you, forgot about that, etc.) before walking away and leaving them alone.
*Btw, shirt's untucked? Shouldn't he be in a robe? Extra points for wearing Muggle clothes, Ron!
*Wait, 25 points from Gryffindor?! Why, he’s completely erased those 20 points Harry worked so hard to earn by passing Sprout that watering can!
*Ernie feels this completely undermines the prefect system, letting Malfoy dock points. As opposed to Dumbledore handing out points after the whole competition’s over to make sure Gryffindor wins. Sadly, it still doesn’t occur to any student that we see that the house cup contest is meaningless and dumb.
*Gryffindor and Ravenclaw were neck and neck for lead before Slytherin gains
*The twins have taken care of Montague first thing. Once I remember coming across a comment in response to this incident referring to "bullies like Montague," indicating that, as usual, only the necessary measures were taken here against a Slytherin in self-defense. In fact Montague merely tried to take points from the twins for something and before he gets the words out they shoved him into the cabinet that causes longterm damage.
*Hermione is shocked! Shocked, I tell you! Not because everyone already knows that Montague could be lost inside the cabinet "for weeks," which makes this sound like a really horrible thing to do, but because they could get in trouble.
*The twins have decided they "don’t care about getting in trouble anymore." They have not made the decision that they don’t care about hurting anybody they choose, because they made that decision years ago.
*As
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slinkhard pointed out, there could be something to be said here for the idea that Umbridge appeals to those people who are treated badly under Dumbledore’s regime, but instead we’re to see Filch as having been rightfully restrained under Dumbledore, and now given free reign to torture students *Still, there's a real connection between Filch and the twins. Both of them, have merely discarded the superficial things that held them in check because they wanted to stay at Hogwarts. They’re not pushed into anything by this situation, they’re just freed to be themselves more.
*I’d hope this all indicated that hey, laws are good. Unfortunately it may just be indicating that Dumbledore is good and if you don’t adore him you deserve whatever comes down on your head in punishment.
*Harry thinks Umbridge went to great lengths to get Filch on her side, though something tells me it really wouldn’t take great lengths. Not treating him like scum and laughing at his being a squib would probably go a long way.
*snort* Sorry, but those brooms chained to the wall is just hysterical. It’s like if your mom took away your teddy for punishment and placed him in a tiny stocks. I’m surprised the bristles weren’t wilting, to indicate the broom had lost its will to live.
*Umbridge looks like a toad, apparently.
*Harry’s quite smart to figure out there might be something in the tea Umbridge gives him. After all, Umbridge was so subtle about shoving it down his throat.
*OMG, Malfoy gets to read everybody’s mail? He must be wetting himself with joy. Too bad Harry doesn’t get any, Hermione’s letters home are probably form letters, and Molly already puts sensitive family information in Howlers.
*So, Hermione’s becoming rebellious, the moment in each book where you know she’s super cool.
*Earlier, when Hermione was watching their disappearing hats I wasn’t sure if her trying to figure out how they did it was a)jealousy, b)admiration or c)just something for her to say so Harry could interrupt and say he was tired. But it would go right along with Hermione’s personality if she has become enamored of the efficient tactics of people she allegedly disapproves of, and so decided that if they get the results she wants they were okay all along. Since she's struggling between her desire to be the teacher’s pet who enforces rules and thus gains praise and power, and her desire to smite her enemies and make the world a better place and thus get even more praise and power. It starts to seem like this all was to lead up to giving Hermione justification for throwing out the very few limits on her own behavior she already has.
*ETA: Yeah, that interesting Hermione vs. Twins dynamic pretty much went nowhere. As did the Twins' entire business and arsenal of weapons. We've got camping to do!
*The fact that Umbridge being headmistress also makes Hermione actually suggest a night off from studying. That's an odd rebellion. Nobody made her study to begin with. Nothing is worth it without the authority figure!
*It always seems odd to me when people talk about how the whole Umbridge regime is so Orwellian. As far as I can see the woman has no power at all save for a few isolated incidents where she manages to punish somebody we like. It’s not like she becomes headmistress and everyone’s enslaved. On the contrary, she becomes headmistress and everyone goes crazy. The Inquisitor Squad takes its greatest hit before the kids even know Umbridge is Headmistress.
*ETA: One might want to compare this reaction to the totally docile response of the entire Wizarding World a couple of books from now.
*In fact, all the characters are freed of constraints. The Gryffindors blow things up and injure people, Filch threatens torture and the Slytherins insult and annoy people and thumb their nose at the house point system (and get attacked).
*Voldemort, for the moment, fares much better, since as Harry tells us he hasn’t practiced Occlumency once. Even when Harry goes to sleep happy he’s zooming into the DoM and not closing his mind. In fact he’s angry at his housemates for keeping him out of the room. I’ll say it: I like villainous!Harry sitting in his bed brooding over not getting what he wants to rule the world while his housemates watch fireworks.
*Once again, when Harry tries to do something responsible for himself by practicing his Occlumency, and thus become strong and independent, it’s Hermione who interrupts his meditation.
*For some reason Harry doesn’t just tell Hermione what he’s really doing, but you know, I think even if he did Hermione would have kept bugging him because she couldn’t stand not feeling her help was essential or not telling him he was doing it wrong.
*Small consolation that Marietta’s still in the hospital wing. But it is some consolation. Any pain or discomfort she might be feeling helps.
*My goodness, I’ve been completely not giving Cho credit. She actually is the one person in the DA bright enough to figure out it was a horrible trick of Hermione Granger's to curse the parchment. Not that Harry’s cares about Marietta as a person or could think of it from that pov.
*Love Harry’s defense that Ron’s dad works for the Ministry and that makes him just like Marietta. Um, Harry? Ron's dad works for Dumbledore. That'd be like Nott saying, "Well, Malfoy's dad works at the Ministry and he doesn't mind helping Voldemort out. Jeez, what's your problem?"
*Sadly, I wonder if Cho is supposed to be an example of a bad person here by saying Marietta is a lovely person who made a mistake after Marietta OMG BETRAYED HER!! >:-ooo Sounds a bit Slinkhard-like, you know, like Cho’s just too spineless to know that Marietta should be judged and shunned forever. I really hope we’re not supposed to be dismissing Cho here as untrustworthy because when you understand where someone else is coming from, even someone who hurt you, the terrorists win. The Gryffindor judgment and anger just doesn’t seem like the sword of truth and righteousness they seem to think it is.
*Harry’s really an idiot warning Cho not to start crying again. Because it’s important for him to constantly tell himself that Cho has never had any valid reason for crying. Why, she might as well be crying now when she’s being "fierce" and yelling at him. I wish Cho had brought up that "darling Hermione’s" idea with the list had also gotten all their names taken.
*Honestly, Harry really shows his true colors to Cho here. He basically tells her that he considers her crying something he has to "cope with" and it irritates him, naturally during the first conversation where Cho makes the mistake of trying to talk about something from her own pov, or make Harry understand her. (You’d think Harry would be more comfortable with her when she’s showing fury, an emotion he likes, but since it’s fury on the part of something that requires Harry to think unemotionally for a minute she’s pretty much screwed.) If she’d just stuck to telling him how great he was all the time she’d have been the perfect girlfriend. But since she’s not it’s great of Harry to tell her how little he respects her grief over her boyfriend. He barely knows her, but is able to use the little he does know against her. I kind of hope Cho has a good part in the next book. She’s just become a favorite character.
*ETA: Poor Cho. She got sent away to a reeducation camp to come back as a Harry fangirl.
*ETA: I hope everyone's seeing how great Ginny is in this scene, the way she doesn't bother Harry with grief when her brother dies or want any say in naming her stupid children at all.
*Ah, my other favorite scene in the book, and in the same chapter. Malfoy bangs into Snape’s office. This does probably indicate that they have a personal relationship, because while Malfoy seems like he probably bangs into rooms a lot I don’t imagine he did it with Snape until he knew it was okay. But we’re also told that Draco "sped in" which I think could indicate just that this really is an emergency, that they’ve just found somebody hurt. Anyway, Draco says sorry to Snape for barging in, which is polite (and luckily Harry doesn’t tell us he doesn’t "sound sorry at all"). He’s also pretty efficient at coming in, giving his message, and leaving, with the minimum gaping at Harry.
*ETA: Nope, no real personal relationship, at least on Snape's part. He only cares about Lily. No redemption possible here for these two. It's kind of sad to think that the Malfoys are pretty much the only people who might have mourned Snape but he didn't actually value them much at all.
*Malfoy also looks gleeful at the idea of Harry in remedial potions, and Harry would like to either shout the truth at him (bad idea--I'm surprised Harry didn't do it) or "even better, to hit him with a good curse." Because Draco exists.
*ETA: Harry will sure show him next year when he's the star Potions student. Surprisingly, he will have no desire to shout the truth at Malfoy then.
*Snape calls Draco and Draco calls Snape "sir." Awww. ETA: I take back my "awwww."
*Hmm, seems somebody’s been looking for Montague—the Slytherins? It’s one of those rare moments that reminds you that something and someone who means nothing to "our" students is missed by others. ETA: Setting up the cabinets in the next book--having little thematic meaning at all, imo.
*Once again Harry is sure that everyone will know he’s in remedial Potions and know he’s stupid. Zach’s reaction is almost exactly the same as Draco’s, looking pleased and repeating remedial Potions? in italics. Yet Draco didn’t hear about it until now, and despite being a bit of a pariah (who’s also a popular kid), Draco appears know gossip at school. So are we to assume that neither boy actually told everyone (since afaik we never get to hear about that awful day when everyone’s laughing at Harry for his bad grade in Potions and God knows if Harry’s being oppressed by something we usually hear about it), or are we supposed to assume both times that the boys did tell and JKR just wanted to use it twice so it could be freshly galling to Harry both times? It's also been suggested Snape might have asked Draco not to say anything about it, which he might have, since it might just be easier for him too to have the lessons secret, despite the amusement at everyone thinking Harry's stupid.
*I like the way when he's tempted to look at Snape's memories Harry knows to tell himself he’s hoping to find out something about the DoM in the Pensieve as opposed to just wanting to know anything Snape would hide from him.
*It’s not like it occurs to him to wonder if him seeing these things, if they are connected to his "problem," could jeopardize anything for the Order. Wasn’t it just a few chapters ago Harry was worried Voldemort could see Order secrets through his head?
*Harry seems to know for sure Montague will have to go to the hospital wing. Not that I’d expect he’d worry about Montague’s well being himself, or hope the twins hadn’t seriously hurt him. It's just weird Harry thinks about it just enough to think that the more seriously hurt Montague is, the better for his plans.
*Just to be clear, the thing that makes Harry invade Snape’s thoughts is the thought of Cho’s anger and Malfoy’s face. Iow, people have pissed him off, so he deserves to invade Snape’s memories. If Snape wouldn’t like it, all the better. Having seen that the memory is in the Great Hall, he knows it’s not about his dreams.
*I just noticed that Snape was apparently interested in DADA even in high school, since he’s written a foot more than anyone else in small, cramped writing. Unless he’s just like Hermione and overdoes everything, but I don’t know...it seems like he has a passion for schoolwork, possibly DADA especially. ETA: It seems like I should have an ETA here, but I don't.
*Looking at James for Harry is like looking at himself but with deliberate mistakes. Damn, I love that description.
*LOL—Sirius is leaning back in his chair, the official pose of young rebellion. And he’s good-looking, not that that girl staring at him will have a chance with him at all, because he's too busy "rebelling" to have a girlfriend. Errr, yeah. Look but don’t touch, ladies. Rebels don't actually have sex. ETA: But they do plaster naked Muggle pictures to their walls to show how totally straight they are.
*Erm, do boys really doodle girls initials? It seems like such a girl thing to do. I know they’ve been known to carve them in trees, but doodling them makes me think James should be writing, "Mr. Lily Evans. Mr. James Evans-Potter. Mr. James Potter-Evans" and then writing out the list of who his bridesmaids will be. And James is truly pining for her for two years? Jeez. ETA: Wizards one inborn talent: pining forever.
*Hee. I love teen!Snape.
*Even in the 70s, there were groups of chattering girls, probably all idiots.
*Hmm. James is the one mouthing off about Lupin where people could hear. One would think it would be Sirius, somehow.
*I like the way Harry’s just sure he couldn’t follow James if Snape went too far away from him. Cause this is Snape’s memory and it just seems like it should be that way. Just go with Harry on this, kay?
*James and Sirius really are insufferable. So easy blah blah, so smart, blah blah, nicked the Snitch. Sirius is "haughty and bored, but handsomely so." How very Malfoy (specifically Draco Malfoy)-like, if not for the handsome. Second time I’ve made that connection in this book.
*Harry says Snape seems to have no clear idea where he’s going when he leaves the school, which might put to rest those ideas that Snape deserved what he’s about to get because he was following them to try something himself. Unless, of course, Snape’s absorption in his exam paper is all an elaborate ruse so that he can do something evil. Except that he’s, you know, walking away when they jump him.
*Still, I’d also love to see what Harry would look like to an objective observer. Instead of looking at the girls and mussing his hair, he’d be glaring around at everyone and snapping at anyone who came close on bended knee.
*Despite what jerks MWPP are, they are totally cooler than the Trio. Can you imagine Harry’s son in this situation: "Uncle Ron was always the same. Damn, my dad was a little piss ant. And look, Aunt Hermione was always 48. Guess they were the losers of the class..."
*Too bad Harry doesn’t care about fashion enough to play up the clothing and hair angle.
*Err, I’m with Harry here at Wormtail gasping and applauding. I’m sorry...gasping and applauding? Looking impressed, sure, but he’s a fifteen-year-old boy. Applauding? Isn’t that a bit much even for a sychophant?
*When Lupin says, "You might" in response to Sirius wishing it was a full moon, is that the English equivalent of saying, "You would?" Like, is Lupin commenting on the fact that Sirius is saying something pretty insensitive about his being a werewolf? Or is he just saying, "You might…if you’re bored, you might test me on Transfig."
*I know we’re always hearing how Sirius and James were the smartest, but frankly Lupin still seems the most intelligent of the four.
*Err, Sirius and James actually do remind me of the twins here, a bit, the way they adopt that British sort of, "Well, Mr. Potter, shall we pants him?" "After you, Mr. Black."
*I’m kind of loving James, the way even when he’s bullying someone he’s looking at the girls. I think if James had lived longer, far from having his heart won by Lily the wonderful, he would have cheated on her any chance he got.
*Sirius speaks viciously too, like Hermione.
*Snape says, "You wait...you wait." *checks ahead to the end* Yup, that’s what Draco tells Harry. And Snape’s choked here, much like Dudley. ETA: Ah, so sad the way my younger self looked for something in Slytherin.
*Bwahahaha! When Lily shows up James' free hand instinctively goes to his hair. Man, this guy would have been so much more likable if he’d lived as sort of a jerk instead of canonized. In fact, maybe he already was cheating on Lily.
*People often agree that James is OMG IS PICKING ON SNAPE JUST BECAUSE HE EXISTS! Duh, he’s not picking on him because he exists but because he fulfills certain criteria James thinks is bad—and they have a history that James doesn’t feel like explaining at that moment. He’s trying to give a cool answer and insult Snape.
*I know it’s often considered significant that Snape draws blood with his curse (so it’s obviously Dark Magic) while James just knocks over and chokes Snape with his (counter-hexes all), but given the position Snape’s in I can see why he’s more vicious. I’d feel completely terrorized and alone. ETA: Sectumsempra--kind of is the most badass curse ever.
*Nice that James makes it clear right up front that this is all part of his elaborate mating dance with Lily, and that’s true from Lily’s side as well. Her face is already twitching into a smile when she sees Snape’s underwear, before he calls her a name. This is partially why her superior, "I won’t bother in future, wash your pants, Snivellus" strikes me as so eye-rolling. Of course her desire to help assumed Snape being grateful (if she remembered him at all), and she would never consider herself to have made the situation worse for Snape.
*ETA: Okay, coming at that scene now from post-DH, it's funny that after HBP I liked Lily more because I thought yeah, they must have been friends and that's why Lily's shocked at what he says. But now that we've seen their friendship--yuck.
*...and better for James, who can now rip open his shirt to reveal the red S and defend Lily’s honor. I mean, it’s all fun and games until somebody uses the "M" word. It’s almost as if Snape takes this more seriously than they do, and is miserable.
*Okay, Lily’s big speech to James about what a jerk he is? We all get that it reveals she’s got a crush on him, right? Just checking. Speeches of this type have been bringing Draco or Harry together in H/D fics for years.
*And James takes his annoyance at that speech out on Snape, all unbeknownst that his son is watching for a similar reason—a girl made him angry too, so he’s making himself feel better!
*I love that Harry turns around and sees a "fully grown, adult-sized Snape." Yeah, you’re in trouble now. Hey Harry, do you get why he likes picking on you and hates you yet?
*You know, I was recently reading something about Snape’s inappropriate reaction to Harry and the way he doesn’t recognize that Harry is clearly sorry and not amused at what evil!James was doing because he’s nothing like his father, not at all. But the thing is, while Snape's reaction is totally irrational and scary, Harry actually did go into the Pensieve out of spite (even if it wasn’t directed at Snape at that moment) and to entertain himself with a treat. He’s just had time to calm down because he’s been distracted by seeing his parents and everything. So Snape actually isn’t wrong when he says Harry’s been amusing himself in the Pensieve, he’s just wrong about exactly what Harry found entertaining.
*ETA: Snape hates Harry for being "like his father" but he's got his mother's worst qualities too. "I'm totally compassionate and caring about everybody while being a jerk!"
*You know, just because Harry knows how it feels to be humiliated in front of others doesn’t mean he’s an official victim as opposed to an aggressor. Most people know what it’s like to feel humiliated in front of others. It’s very hard to get through your whole life without ever feeling that way. If Malfoy were watching this scene, he’d be identifying with Snape too. Hell, SNAPE would be identifying with Snape in this scene and he loves humiliating people in front of the class. It’s not always a sign of a kind person that they see themselves as the innocent party. (Just observe some very angry fans of Harry who hate Draco so much they sound exactly like him.)
*Damn, it’s not until the very beginning of the next chapter that Harry starts explaining how if he or the twins did something like this, they’d be sure to do it to the right person, someone they really loathed, unlike James who didn't loathe Snape at all and didn't think he deserved this. But it’s coming. Oh, it’s coming. Just give him a second to make his escape.
Box Picture
I consider this a box picture chapter, because this is where the younger generation of stars can be stunt cast as Young!Marauders. ETA: That is, if the movies cared about this backstory at all.
Designated Hero
Harry does just about nothing remotely admirable in this chapter, and he gets extra points for his treatment of Cho: Listen bitch, I’ve had to put up with your meaningless snivelling too much already. Stop thinking you and I can have a conversation.
Idiot World
Umbridge, like most villains here, is completely ineffective—her attempt to feed Harry Veritaseum is embarassing. Yet she's still hated a lot.
Misdirected Answering
You know, having the characters even bring up the idea that Prefects can or can’t take points just complicated things.
The Stealth Monster Rule
Why, grown-up, adult Snape! Where did you come from?!
Final score: 5
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It's almost like MWPP's and Lily's behavior can all be excused now that Snape called Lily a "Mudblood." Many fans take it that way, and I think the text portrays Lily as a White Knight (though it doesn't excuse James and Sirius). So if someone throws an ethnic slur at you instead of being properly grateful for being rescued, that means it's okay to stop rescuing him and just let him be assaulted, apparently. Rescuing people is something you do for the warm-fuzzies, not because you're a decent person.
Lily is a Mary Sue: Y/Y? What actual faults does she have, unless falling for James counts?
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Actually, lots. The one thing worse than a Mary-Sue is a flawed character who we're supposed to percieve as a Mary-Sue.
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Lily Sue
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And retroactively justify your smirk at their getting pantsed!
I mean, I hold Snape responsible for what he said. He did use a slur, and it's perfectly okay for Lily to decide, as a Muggleborn, that that's a deal-breaker. But still, she doesn't come off well before that moment.
The sad thing with Cho is that it's totally not blackmail because Harry doesn't feel badly when she cries. He's just uncomfortable.
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(Anonymous) 2008-05-03 11:16 pm (UTC)(link)Well, my impression of Lily after DH was that she was a rather unpleasant person. Let's see - bad friend - given that she was openly Snape's friend her behaviour in SWM is really beyond the pale, bad prefect (I can't imagine her as yet another entry from the left, like James), prejudiced, shallow and a gold digger. Also, her letter and her death scene made clear that she was complete rubbish as a resistance fighter and in fact that the _only_ claim of the Potters to being heroic was their tragic death. Yes, they were on the "right" side - and frankly, given that Lily was Muggleborn they had a personal reason for that, but they didn't actually do anything helpful whilst being there. So, the one thing which I thought would be their saving grace turned out to be so much empty air.
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(Anonymous) 2008-05-02 05:33 pm (UTC)(link)"When Lupin says, "You might" in response to Sirius wishing it was a full moon, is that the English equivalent of saying, "You would?" Like, is Lupin commenting on the fact that Sirius is saying something pretty insensitive about his being a werewolf? Or is he just saying, "You might…if you’re bored, you might test me on Transfig." "
I get this as a sort of 'YOU might' with italics on the you. as in 'you might like it, but i actually don't enjoy turning into a monster once a month.' which a) shows up sirius's insensitivity, and b)Apparently the limit to how much remus is willing to get annoyed at his friends.
You are right about the Mrauders being cooler than the Trio. The mauarders would have ripped the trio to shreds. Bookish Hermione, winging Harry and a rather pointless Ron, they would have been fair game for bullying by sirius and james in the same way that ron gets pushed about by the twins.
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So true! You know, I'd love to see that. I've seen time travel fics where the Marauders and the Trio (or maybe Ginny) meet and they just adore each other. But it would be great to have one where the Trio goes back to the Marauder era and get mercilessly heckled by the Marauders--and condescended to by Lily.
Hehe. It would just like Back to the Future with Snape played by Crispin Glover. I could see Harry hooking up with him, helping Snape to get back at James and kiss Lily at the school dance--all of which leading to a future where Voldemort was defeated for good and Harry owns a flying truck instead of a broomstick.
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The Marauders vs. the Trio would be kind of hilarious. I can see James and Sirius sometimes giving Harry some Draco-lines--the rare good kind of the "Boy Who Scored" variety.
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I think I know the reason. This reaction and the rebellion in the last book are of students. Apparently most adult wizards become more timid with age.
* It's kind of sad to think that the Malfoys are pretty much the only people who might have mourned Snape but he didn't actually value them much at all.
But, sistermagpie, Harry even named his son after Snape! The man would never get such level of devotion from less-than-perfect Draco.
* ETA: Harry will sure show him next year when he's the star Potions student. Surprisingly, he will have no desire to shout the truth at Malfoy then.
Next year Harry will nobly suffer the lies and unearned adoration for the greater good. A whole book prior to the demonstration of this concept by Dumbledore, our hero will give us a good example.
*I like the way when he's tempted to look at Snape's memories Harry knows to tell himself he’s hoping to find out something about the DoM in the Pensieve as opposed to just wanting to know anything Snape would hide from him.
I guess it's the desire for the greater good kicking in again. The pain due to invading another's privacy is severe, but our hero will cope with it.
*ETA: Snape hates Harry for being "like his father" but he's got his mother's worst qualities too. "I'm totally compassionate and caring about everybody while being a jerk!"
LOL! Even before reading today's recap, I wanted to ask you (I know it sounds stupid): if Harry were real, wouldn't you want to be his friend/girlfriend/etc.? Why or why not? It's just sometimes a bit difficult to differentiate between irony and serious statements. :)
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It's true. Who wouldn't rather be granted forgiveness on high by Harry, especially with this bizarre naming of his child, than just be missed as a human being by people who liked you.
if Harry were real, wouldn't you want to be his friend/girlfriend/etc.? Why or why not? It's just sometimes a bit difficult to differentiate between irony and serious statements. :)
I never thought about it much! I don't hate Harry, but I wouldn't want to be his girlfriend, and I doubt he'd want me as a friend either. He's too much of an emotional blackmail and needs everyone to orbit around him without giving much in return. And stripped of his strange circumstances of birth, he seems like a kind of ordinary guy with not much interesting going on in his head.
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Clarification
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It is pretty funny, isn't it? I was sorry that we never got to see the brooms chained in the dungeon in the movie, or the shackles hanging off the broom. But your image of the teddy bear reminds me that chaining up a broomstick is pretty silly anyway, since there's no place to really put the chains. They would just slip off.
*Honestly, Harry really shows his true colors to Cho here. He basically tells her that he considers her crying something he has to "cope with" and it irritates him, naturally during the first conversation where Cho makes the mistake of trying to talk about something from her own pov, or make Harry understand her.
I originally thought this was pretty concise boy/girl (Mars/Venus) relationship sketching. But, geez, Harry is just the worst boyfriend ever (word to Violaswamp on Warren).
First, Harry mysteriously disappears with Cho's boyfriend and brings back her dead body. Instead of drawing the obvious conclusion that Harry got him killed, she gives Harry the benefit of the doubt, joins his underground youth rebellion, kisses him, goes out with him, and tries to bond with him over what is a traumatic event for both them--only to have him ditch her to spend time with Hermione. Then, Hermione curses her best friend, and Cho tries to explain, only to have Harry cut her short. Why she didn't go brew up some Draught of the Living Death for Harry, I'll never know.
*ETA: Nope, no real personal relationship, at least on Snape's part. He only cares about Lily. No redemption possible here for these two. It's kind of sad to think that the Malfoys are pretty much the only people who might have mourned Snape but he didn't actually value them much at all.
I don't know about that. I think he did as much as he could. But, Snape was on a very tight leash (held by Dumbledore.) He valued the Malfoys enough to protect Draco during HBP. What's odd is that he didn't seem to do anything beyond that--when it's clear that the Malfoys are in desperate need of help all during DH. Is that because Snape really doesn't care about them? Does he try and we just don't see it? Or it is simply dropped because the plot no longer requires him to care?
Okay, this is what is so maddening and weird about JKR. There is such careful plotting and dropping of clues and hints before a plot twist takes place. Then, once it's over, it's --poof!--gone! Take, for example, Peter Pettigrew.
We have the very careful set-up with Scabbers the Rat in the first book, followed by the Scabbers/Crookshanks subplot in PoA. Then, Peter reveals himself, runs off into the night.... we get that whole prophecy about him bringing Voldemort back and the counterbalancing idea (from Dumbledore), that his "life debt" to Harry will somehow benefit Harry.
Then we get Peter helping out Voldemort in GoF. And then, he's gone. Stuck in Snape's house (which only creates odd, irrelevant questions--and furthers the cause of slash writing by inspiring Snape/Peter fics) and then in Malfoy Manor in order to die the most pointless, stupid, absurdly irrelevant death in the series.
Nothing that Peter did or that happened to him from the moment after Voldemort's rebirth had any meaning or consequence in the story (including that cool silver hand with it's super power of crushing sticks).
What's so strange, if you think about Cho as well, is that these characters tend to get most interesting as they exit the plot. So, while Cho's main purpose is to provide Harry's first kiss, it's after the kiss, as Harry's trying to kick her out the door, that she becomes more compelling. Likewise, we get the intriguing idea of Peter plus the killer silver hand (with a life debt and a grudge against Snape), once the reason for Peter's very existence has passed.
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I totally agree-that's exactly my disappointment. I don't think Snape could really do much for the Malfoys, especially in that last book. But it seemed like all that stuff that looked like an actual emotional thing or an arc for Snape was just a plot point to get that wand thing to work out. I had hoped the story in HBP was about the coming together of Snape's vow to protect Harry (I knew he was DDM, at least) but also making a claim for his own emotional life based around people he had relationships with for himself. But once HBP was over it wasn't needed for the plot anymore so it was just that yeah, they knew each other but they no longer have any feelings for each other. The emotional stuff is so shallow there's no resolution even needed.
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LOL, the mail-reading (and other invasions of privacy) ethics displayed over the series are wonderfully clear. When Draco (oh, and nosy Petunia) does it, he's aiding the terrorists, even though no-one benefits whatsoever from any information gathered, and he and his are constantly getting the shit kicked out of them for it; when Harry does it, he's just a brave, curious, feisty little rule-breaker who then benefits from his ill-gotten knowledge.
The Gryffindors blow things up and injure people...and the Slytherins insult and annoy people and thumb their nose at the house point system (and get attacked).
The Slytherins just demonstrate their pettiness in being concerned still with petty issues like house points (WHILE LIVING IN AN ORWELLIAN NIGHTMARE!11 Personally, I'd find the whole 'Everyone must love Harry, who along with his friends runs the entire world' to be as chilling as 'He loved Big Brother' - not to mention 'the object of torture is torture' and 'the rage...switch(ing) from one object to another', like Harry's anger pinball - but with JKR it was apparently an accident.)
The Gryffindors in their maturity have already realised that this is WAR!1! and everyone knows that in wartime, you're practically obligated to torture/maim the other side (especially because you're very good and they're very bad!)
ETA: Poor Cho. She got sent away to a reeducation camp to come back as a Harry fangirl.
LOL. I have these elaborate theory that since Cho apparently married a Muggle in the endless fucking interview snippets JKR feels compelled to share, lest attention not be focused on her at every available moment; and Dudley apparently married since it was mentioned that Harry and his kids see his family (naturally, dreading it. It wouldn't be right and proper if wizards and Muggles got along with the former feeling piteous contempt towards the latter. Dudley should remove that gun he keeps pointed to Harry's forehead, forcing Harry to suffer his unworthy company.) that these two got it on.
Probably at the same place that ate their personalities.
the way she doesn't bother Harry with grief when her brother dies
I thought it was so touching the way Harry left her 'blotchy' self to it (speaking personally, I emphasise here. It's so awful when loved ones have losses. They're not horny for, like, days; their skin tone and beauty regimes go out the window; they want to talk rather than reflect back your own feelings at yourself...) because he wanted peace and quiet. I wish Harry was my boyfriend!!
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That's the best part of war, how it becomes your duty to be annoyed with all the assholes at school.
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I've always found it so weird that they take it so seriously, even from the first book. The closest equivalent we had at my school was the occasional competition between the dorms that nobody took all that seriously. It feels like they're all so concerned about winning their answer to penny wars or whatever and they don't even get a pizza party for it. Of course, we all had actual friends in other dorms and didn't see where we slept as indicating anything about the nature of our souls.
Snape hates Harry for being "like his father" but he's got his mother's worst qualities too. "I'm totally compassionate and caring about everybody while being a jerk!"
That's an interesting thought. Snape has this idealized version of Lily built up in his head (though I guess everyone else kind of does too). He might well hate Harry for reminding him just how untrue his mental version is, both by forcing him to look at the memory and by acting a bit like her. I could also kind of see Dumbledore cluelessly causing a great deal of anguish by telling him to try to see the Lily in Harry instead of the James.
I tend to think of his great love for Lily as being something of a crutch by that point - I think he genuinely had the change of heart about Voldemort that everyone was assuming he'd had before DH killed that idea, but he thinks so badly of himself that he believes he needs someone else to enable him to do the right thing. So, he uses Ideal!Lily to lean on in his head and Dumbledore (real or portrait) to determine what he actually does. Any reminder of what she was really like would probably feel like a hit to his moral center.
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I love the idea that Harry's actually reminding Snape of Lily all those years instead of James.
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House points
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*snort* Sorry, but those brooms chained to the wall is just hysterical. It’s like if your mom took away your teddy for punishment and placed him in a tiny stocks. I’m surprised the bristles weren’t wilting, to indicate the broom had lost its will to live.
Somehow I missed this earlier: yes, it's hilarious! I love it.
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(Anonymous) - 2008-05-03 23:40 (UTC) - Expandno subject
Because real men don't have to be interested in women. The women go to them and they choose. Rowling kind of like Rand in a way.
*Erm, do boys really doodle girls initials? It seems like such a girl thing to do. I know they’ve been known to carve them in trees, but doodling them makes me think James should be writing, "Mr. Lily Evans. Mr. James Evans-Potter. Mr. James Potter-Evans" and then writing out the list of who his bridesmaids will be. And James is truly pining for her for two years? Jeez. ETA: Wizards one inborn talent: pining forever.
Yeah, young guys can and do the emo initial stuff. I've seen it with my own eyes, carved into desks at an all boys H.S. But they were weak! Real men wait for the women to fall in front of them. Obviously James is so fantastic he is exempt from it.
*I’m kind of loving James, the way even when he’s bullying someone he’s looking at the girls. I think if James had lived longer, far from having his heart won by Lily the wonderful, he would have cheated on her any chance he got.
It is always the characters that Rowling has based on true life figures that pop into focus and are well written. I'm sensing those kind of strong vibes about James. Which is why his 11th hour rescue of Snape doesn't ring true. The bully is the real deal.
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You forgot to mention that she's fat.
sistermagpie: *LOL—Sirius is leaning back in his chair, the official pose of young rebellion. And he’s good-looking, not that that girl staring at him will have a chance with him at all, because he's too busy "rebelling" to have a girlfriend. Errr, yeah. Look but don’t touch, ladies. Rebels don't actually have sex. ETA: But they do plaster naked Muggle pictures to their walls to show how totally straight they are.
I actually really liked Sirius's bikini pictures. I had never been able to buy gay!Sirius, but the posters made it almost work. I could totally see questioning!Sirius putting up bikini posters and trying to seduce every girl in the school in a desperate attempt to prove his macho straightness.
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Pt. 1
Well it started out with Prefects being able to dock points - hence, Percy docking points from Ron in Book 2, but when Rowling goofed up in Book 5, she blamed Ron for being too stupid to know he could dock points. Even though other prefects like Ernie and Hermione were on the scene.
Word. So much word. And why is it that it's the Squib that has to do manual labour and clean up after the magical people who could do it by swishing their wands?
Can I say just how much I adore Cho? I really hoped she and Harry won't hook up because that would have meant:
a, Harry always gets what he wants (especially since I knew from the 1st book that it would be a OBHWF ending) and
b, Hello? Her boyfriend, Cedric died under very mysterious circumstances with only Harry as witness. And may I state now that it was mighty odd that with all the smear campaigning the ministry did against Harry, not one person insinuated that he killed Cedric to win the Triwizard Tournament???
This is me sighing at how much more profound these books had been if the author had ever moved beyond the moral judgment of a nine-year-old.
JK Rowling won't have been able to write herself out of that one. Hence the silence.
As far as I'm concerned, since Cho graduated in Book 6, that Asian chick who was fangirling Harry wasn't Cho but a Polyjuiced spy, keeping tabs on the Room of Requirement.
LOLOL!
Really? I thought Lucius as prefect welcoming Snape to the Slytherin House showed that there was a long friendship there. I can't remember DH in detail - I try very hard not to remember a lot of Books 5-7 in detail - but did Rowling really go out of her way to establish that Snape didn't care for the Malfoys after she started Book 6 with that awesome Narcissa/Snape scene?
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Bwahahaha! Someone must write a fic about this!
*I’m kind of loving James, the way even when he’s bullying someone he’s looking at the girls. I think if James had lived longer, far from having his heart won by Lily the wonderful, he would have cheated on her any chance he got.
LOL - so true!
There is a fic by artemismuse on livejournal where James actually cheats on Lily after they get married (it is a Snape/Lily fic called Wrong Kind of Hero, I think).
*ETA: Snape hates Harry for being "like his father" but he's got his mother's worst qualities too. "I'm totally compassionate and caring about everybody while being a jerk!"
I wonder if Snape resents Harry so much for reminding him of Lily's negative qualities.
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that sounds great. And yeah, it would be really funny to see the Trio meet the Marauders and wind up just getting harassed and laughed at. Lily could stick up for them while smirking behind her hand at how really funny James is.
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