Deathly Hallows, Chapter 9: A Place to Hide

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Harry and Hermione happen to be together when the attack comes, so when Ron finds them, Hermione Apparates them to London. As usual, the boys are unprepared, but Hermione has packed everything they need: changes of clothes, Harry’s invisibility cloak, reference books, luggage--and whatever else they might need as the story goes on that Rowling didn’t think of right now.

Harry experiences emotion as GERD again as he thinks about the danger Ginny is in, and “fear bubble[s] like acid in his stomach.” Um, Harry, I know your science education ended at age eleven, but surely you’ve picked up from TV commercials for antacids that the stomach does have acid bubbling in it. Maybe you just have indigestion from all that rich food and champagne you ate and drank at the wedding reception.

As they walk down the street, Hermione is sexually harassed by some drunk men. Ron is about to defend her honor when Hermione drags them into an all-night greasy spoon. They are preparing to leave when they are attacked by two DEs, who had followed them into the restaurant and been sitting there for a while. This is a contrived scene because as soon as the DEs are defeated, Ron recognizes one and Harry the other. Harry even admits he should have recognized the blond one, Thorfinn Rowle, from the night Dumbledore died. Clearly, the DEs are doing a better job of educating their recruits on whom to watch for than the Order is. Any commander who’s not a complete dimwit should make sure hir soldiers or police officers know who the major enemies/criminals are and what they look like. Honestly, both sides in this rumble are so incompetent that I can’t help thinking the non-magical government just needs to protect the public, then stand back and let the magicals have at each other until all the dumbest ones are dead. It would greatly enhance the gene pool of the ones who are left.

The Trio tries to decide what to do about their prisoners and settles on Obliviation. They all insist they’ve never done it, despite Hermione’s weeping, wailing, and gnashing of teeth regarding her parents just two days ago. Apparently her memory charm on them was a little too good: Its blowback damaged her memory, too.

Or maybe it was too bad. Maybe Hermione’s telling at least part of the truth when she says she’s never done a memory charm--at least, a successful one. That is, perhaps she tried to mind-rape her parents and change their identities, but she wasn’t successful. Maybe when this high school girl with a fifth-grade science education tried to perform magical brain surgery on her parents, she failed so disastrously they ended up vegetables, and she had to kill them because she couldn’t take care of them.

Think about it: We have only her word they really are in Australia. Remember all my objections to the logistics of changing their identities and shipping them off to a foreign country? All those problems disappear if the Grangers are dead. In chapter 6, it says Hermione’s eyes “were swimming with tears” as she talked about them. This is not a girl who cries easily. The only other time I can think of her crying in the whole series is in book 1 when nobody will be her friend--that is, when she feels all alone in the world.

Hermione has been building up to this for a long time. In first year, she set Snape on fire. In second year, she committed a series of felonies that would have gotten HRH expelled and criminally prosecuted in a sane society. In third year, she knocked Snape unconscious with her friends and cared only for the fact she might get in trouble for attacking a teacher. In fourth year, she kidnapped Rita Skeeter, held her hostage, and blackmailed her. In fifth year, she tricked Umbridge into becoming the prey of the centaurs. She also tricked other students into agreeing to the Dumbledore’s Army contract without knowing what the consequences were for breaking it--and permanently disfigured another girl in revenge when the girl dared to put the well-being of her own mother before that of her schoolmates. In sixth year, she attacked her own boyfriend with birds à la Alfred Hitchcock, and in seventh year, she “jokes” about doing it again (in chapter 19). She also at least attempted to perform forcible brain surgery on her own parents and ship them off to a foreign country.

Look at that series of violent felonies. Try to forget it’s the life story of Hermione Granger, a character you thought you knew, and instead imagine it’s the case history of some anonymous teenager in a news story. Then tell me that murder is not the logical next step in the criminal career of someone with that record.

Back to the story:

Ron complains he can’t get his wand out of his jeans because the pair Hermione packed is his old pair, which is too tight. God forbid he should do his own packing--or laundry--or cooking--or any of those “girl jobs.”

This is a very strange restaurant: Apparently the waitress also does the cooking, since there’s no reference to any other employee being present.

The Trio discusses where to run to, and Hermione suggests the DEs may have found them because Harry still has the underage Trace on him. Ron insists that cannot be the case because Wizarding law doesn’t allow it to be put on adults. Um, Ron, I hate to tell you this, but the Ministry is in the control of violent terrorists who want to kill large numbers of people and take over the world. I don’t think they’re going to shrink from breaking any law, particularly if it will help them find their number one quarry, Harry Potter.

HRH (Hey, JKR’s pretending Harry’s royalty, so why not go with it?) decide to go to Grimmauld Place, even though Snape knows where it is and can get in there. Harry displays textbook Gryffindor bravado by boasting that he’d love to fight Snape. I can just imagine Snape sneering and replying, “Yes, Potter, because that worked out so well for you last time.”

They leave the restaurant after waking everybody up, thus leaving the defenseless waitress to the mercies of the muggle-hating Death Eaters. Remind me again why these are the good guys?

They enter 12GP and we have a brief recap of the furnishings in the foyer. Surely I’m not the only one who finds those stuffed elf heads really creepy and grotesque. Proving their fitness for battle with ruthless terrorists, the Trio is traumatized by Moody’s ludicrous “protections” on the house: a Tongue-Tying Curse and an apparition of Dumbledore that appears to be a giant dust bunny disguised as a decomposing corpse.

OH! COME! ON! Anybody’s who ever been to a local charity’s “haunted house” has seen scarier stuff than that! I started reading horror comic books and watching horror movies and TV shows when I was five. I was never scared by those stories because I knew they weren’t real. In my expert opinion, if JKR is writing horror, as she’s sometimes been accused of, she’s doing a damned poor job of it.

Those “protections” are idiotic for other reasons: (1) As others have pointed out, Snape can do silent magic, so tying his tongue would have no effect on his ability to cast spells. (2) If he’s as ruthless and evil as the Order thinks he is, he’s not going to be put off by a dust bunny representation of the man he killed. If anything, he’s going to laugh at the absurdity of it. Hell, I’m not a ruthless murderer, and I laughed at it.

For somebody who was supposed to be so formidable, experienced, and hung up on “constant vigilance” (a euphemism for clinical paranoia), Moody was a complete incompetent when it came to actually protecting places that needed to be protected. No wonder he resorted to torture to get captured DEs to talk. He was too ineffective to get information any other way.

As if they weren’t traumatized enough, the Three Stooges (seriously, this scene seems to have been ripped off from an old Three Stooges or Abbott and Costello short) Golden Trio then has to put up with the painting of Walburga Black shrieking racist invective at them. Harry shuts her up, but I have more to say on that subject.

I know it’s commonly accepted that Walburga was mentally ill, maybe even insane, and that’s why she acted so abominably. I don’t buy it. There is no way of being certain of her mental state without observing her behavior when she wasn’t either at home or in another place she considered safe for spewing her filth. That is, if she could behave like a perfect lady when she wanted to--say, while shopping in Diagon Alley, or at Ministry social functions--then her behavior was under her conscious control. She was therefore not mentally ill, just a vicious racist who got off on terrorizing everybody with her violent tantrums. Only if she was unable to control her behavior and conform to appropriate social norms would she qualify as mentally ill and/or incompetent. That’s why, in the various editions of the DSM, the diagnostic criteria always specify that, to qualify for a diagnosis, the aberrant behavior has to be present for an extended period and in a variety of contexts.

Harry has another Voldie-vision, and Hermione starts shrieking à la Walburga, that he has to close the mental connection, or Voldemort can plant false images in his mind. Don’t worry, Hermione. Voldemort’s much too dumb to do anything that sensible.

Harry retreats to the bathroom and lets go with the vision, seeing Draco being forced to torture Rowle with Crucio. To his credit, Harry seems to feel sorry for Draco, although not for Rowle.

However, this “terrifying” vision is undermined by more logical contradictions. Voldy snarls that Rowle called Voldy back to report he’d let Harry get away--but Hermione Obliviated Rowle, so how is that possible? And would Rowle really be so stupid as to call his Master back just to report a failure to him, knowing what kind of punishment he’d receive for his failure? I’m so tired of this nonsense, I feel like Crucioing somebody at this point.

Comments

[sunnyskywalker]

Honestly, both sides in this rumble are so incompetent that I can’t help thinking the non-magical government just needs to protect the public, then stand back and let the magicals have at each other until all the dumbest ones are dead.

Ah, but would we want to get rid of the dumbest ones? Sure, they cause all sorts of mayhem, but what would a bunch of smart wizards get up to if they weren't constantly running around trying to clean up the dumb wizards' messes? I am not so sure that would be unequivocally in the non-magical world's interest. Maybe instead the non-magical government is hoping all the smart, megolomaniacal ones die instead. Or all of them.

Moody was introduced as having dustbin-based home security, so maybe we should have wondered about his competence a lot earlier. (Not that dustbins couldn't make themselves useful, but we don't know that they did anything more than make noise and throw garbage around - and there's much better alarm systems.)

Another problem with diagnosing Walburga is that we only have her portrait. While portraits do have some form of awareness and agency (no matter what JKR says, that's what we see), we don't know that their minds are quite as complex as a living person's, and it seems likely that they aren't. So the portrait could be a sort of Extreme Walburga, her most characteristic traits exaggerated a bit or at least not balanced by other traits the real Walburga may have had. (Maybe Phineas Nigellus wasn't a 24-hour snarkfest either, even if he dished out a lost of biting comments in general.) But never having met her, who knows?



*At least before Voldemort's re-embodiment...

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/As they walk down the street, Hermione is sexually harassed by some drunk men./

Now that I think about it, was that scene really necessary?

/the non-magical government just needs to protect the public, then stand back and let the magicals have at each other until all the dumbest ones are dead./

I wonder if they’re been doing that already. Maybe that’s why the Muggle government hasn’t gotten involved in wizarding affairs.

/I can just imagine Snape sneering and replying, “Yes, Potter, because that worked out so well for you last time.”/

Actually, that’s kind of what I thought while I was reading that line. I was thinking, “Um, Harry, don’t you remember the *last* time that you faced off against Snape?” Either he’s lying to make himself feel better or he just somehow forgot.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Perhaps Harry is thinking that with Ron & Hermione's help, the three of them can get the drop on him like in PoA?

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

"....Hermione suggests the DEs may have found them because Harry still has the underage Trace on him. Ron insists that cannot be the case because Wizarding law doesn’t allow it to be put on adults. Um, Ron, I hate to tell you this, but the Ministry is in the control of violent terrorists who want to kill large numbers of people and take over the world. I don’t think they’re going to shrink from breaking any law, particularly if it will help them find their number one quarry, Harry Potter."

In this case the DEs only got control of the Ministry less than 2 or so hours ago. Harry's trace should have been removed on his birthday. IF it was, then putting it back on was the very first thing done, possibly before even securing the entire MoM building. Either that or they already had someone in the underage magic dept. before Harry's b-day.

This takeover of the ministry seems to be the only time we've seen evidence that the DEs can be competent. Compare it to to fight between Harry and the other kids and the DEs in the DoM. I wonder who actually did the planning on this?

"....Voldy snarls that Rowle called Voldy back to report he’d let Harry get away--but Hermione Obliviated Rowle, so how is that possible? And would Rowle really be so stupid as to call his Master back just to report a failure to him, knowing what kind of punishment he’d receive for his failure?"

I can only guess that Rowle called Voldy before he and Dolohov entered the diner - much like later in the book when Amycus calls Voldy about Harry being at Hogwarts before he had Harry in his possession. I'm picturing Voldy questioning them and neither of them even knows what he's talking about.

Re: Walburga - while there isn't any actual proof of her sanity or insanity I tend towards insanity. My bet is that the deaths of both her husband and one son in close succession and then Sirius' incarceration approximately a year later most probably sent her over the edge. Judging from Bella & Sirius, the Blacks were not exactly terribly sane to begin with - tho' I admit that it could be a result of Azkaban for both of them. But I can see Walburga holing herself up in #12, almost never leaving the house and leaving all errands to Kreacher to carry out. Orion presumably had good reasons to put so many protections on the house and was apparently killed anyways (since he didn't die from old age). Since the protections were still there when the Order took over, Orion must have died outside the house and I can easily see Walburga refusing to leave it after that.

We can see that Kreacher is also probably a bit off after the death of Regulus, especially since he couldn't perform the last duty Regulus left him. So I cannot see him as an especially healthy companion. I can just picture both of them making the other's grief worse - up until Walburga's death 4 years later.

So, while it isn't evidence that it truly happened that way, I can see that it was possible.

[oryx_leucoryx]

We don't know that the real Moody used dust-bins as an alert system, Barty moved the dustbins around as a cover (as an excuse for the noise that the neighbors reported, which was actually the noise from the struggle)

Walburga - even if she was mad, there is no reason to think she was mad all along. It wouldn't surprise me if her 'madness' is PTSD after losing her entire family over a short time.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Orion could have also died in the house, from something that came from outside, such as a poison or cursed artifact.

Kreacher's problem is double - not only did he fail to perform Regulus' command to destroy the locket, but he was also conflicted by Regulus' order not to tell Walburga about the circumstances of his death and presumably her own questions.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

Heavens, yes! I thought so, too. I'm not sure, but this may have been the first time I wanted to give Harry a good, swift, kick while reading. It was not the last. And - I honestly don't think a reader should feel this way about the character who's supposed to be the protagonist.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Yes, Orion's actual 'death' could have happened in the house. I meant that it probably happened because he had actually left the house - even if he returned and died there - dying from something he was in contact with while outside the 'safety' of his protected home. Certainly reason enough for Walburga to refuse to ever go outside again.

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

The idea that Hermione could actually have killed her parents - ouch! It's scary how much sense that makes. No, I wouldn't peg Hermione as a ruthless murderer quite as fast as I would young Tom Riddle, or even the twins. She hasn't got the cruelty to animals thing going the way they have. But she does seem the sort who could be led to really evil actions on the pretext of "helping" people. So I can actually see her having killed her parents by accident, under the guise of protecting them.

Someone should do a study, as Bashir and Garak said, on the way women are depicted in the Potterverse. I loved Hermione when she was first introduced, but by DH she's no more my idea of a heroine than Harry is a hero. Well, at least she, unlike Harry, can do some practical things like cook and heal wounds. But still, she's no moral exemplar.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

What's really amazing is that the trio would be unlikely to accomplish it this time. I believe it only worked in PoA because Snape really couldn't conceive of the idea that they would curse him while he was attempting to save them. He would certainly be on his guard this time!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Re: Hermione suddenly claiming she never performed a memory charm - there are fanfics where it turns out she was covering for someone else (well, Severus) who arranged the protection of her parents.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

Not to mention that we saw Snape fight defensively against both Minerva AND Flitwick successfully. It's pretty doubtful the trio would have hurt him again.

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

Judging by what we've seen, that's the most generous interpretation.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Honestly, both sides in this rumble are so incompetent that I can’t help thinking the non-magical government just needs to protect the public, then stand back and let the magicals have at each other until all the dumbest ones are dead. It would greatly enhance the gene pool of the ones who are left.

Given the prejudice even the smartest ones show towards muggles and the fact that the intelligent wizards tend to turn evil (Dumbles, Tom, Gellert, Hermione), it's probably best to avoid enhancing their gene pool too much.

Or maybe it was too bad. Maybe Hermione’s telling at least part of the truth when she says she’s never done a memory charm--at least, a successful one. That is, perhaps she tried to mind-rape her parents and change their identities, but she wasn’t successful. Maybe when this high school girl with a fifth-grade science education tried to perform magical brain surgery on her parents, she failed so disastrously they ended up vegetables, and she had to kill them because she couldn’t take care of them.

Wow... that is... chillingly plausible, actually. *shudders at the thought of ParentKiller!Hermione*

Voldy snarls that Rowle called Voldy back to report he’d let Harry get away--but Hermione Obliviated Rowle, so how is that possible?

They hung around discussing plans in front of him after they'd obliviated him, so presumably he remembers lying there immobilised while the Trio were chatting about what to do, couldn't remember what had led up to this, and drew the obvious conclusion that he'd got into a fight with them and come off worst.

And would Rowle really be so stupid as to call his Master back just to report a failure to him, knowing what kind of punishment he’d receive for his failure?

Maybe he thought that Voldemort wouldn't torture him, perhaps because he figured the information he'd overheard (that the Trio didn't know about the Taboo on Voldie's name, and that they were going to hide out at Grimmauld place -- seriously, what idiots would talk about this in front of an enemy soldier?) would be enough to make Voldie relent a little. Or he figured that Voldemort would find out using legilimency, and considered it better to 'fess up himself.



Another inconsistency: Bella says in OOTP that you have to really feel hatred to cast an Unforgiveable, and Harry makes a quip about this later in the book. But Malfoy doesn't look like he's enjoying himself at all, so surely he should be unable to do the spell?

[feyshadow95.livejournal.com]

Bella says in OOTP that you have to really feel hatred to cast an Unforgiveable

I always thought she said that you just have to really want to cast it (but it's a long time since I've read OOTP so don't quote me on this). But if that is the case, then if Draco was told to either torture Rowle or he'd be, then that could be motivation enough to want to cast Crucio.

Or Rowle's just acting and isn't actually in pain at all.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Bella says in OOTP that you have to really feel hatred to cast an Unforgiveable, and Harry makes a quip about this later in the book. But Malfoy doesn't look like he's enjoying himself at all, so surely he should be unable to do the spell?/

Yes, that’s a good point. But again, maybe that’s a sign that JKR forgot everything that she’d written about the Unforgivable Curses. They aren’t unforgivable anymore, because Harry casts two of them and nobody says anything. They don’t require genuine hatred anymore, because Draco’s casting one right now and Harry didn’t particularly hate Amycus that much when he did curse him.

As a matter of fact, one could argue that Draco’s attempt to curse Harry in HBP downgraded the Cruciatus Curse as well, because it wasn’t done consciously. Draco didn’t deliberately try to torture Harry; he threw the Cruciatus Curse at Harry in a fit of rage and panic. I had the impression that one of the reasons why the Unforgivable Curses were so terrible was because they required cold, deliberate intent. I’d pictured the caster standing there calmly while casting the Imperius Curse, not wildly casting it willy-nilly because they couldn’t think of any other curses or hexes at the moment. And the Cruciatus Curse is a good example of this because it’s a *torture* spell. Torture requires that the perpetrator be consciously aware of what they’re doing.

But no. Draco’s a shaking mess in HBP and he still tries to curse Harry with the Cruciatus Curse and he’s a shaking mess in DH and he’s still somehow able to do it.

[oryx_leucoryx]

(that the Trio didn't know about the Taboo on Voldie's name, and that they were going to hide out at Grimmauld place -- seriously, what idiots would talk about this in front of an enemy soldier?)

Especially now that they are Secret Keepers. If they talk about the place outsiders can acquire the Secret from them.

[sunnyskywalker]

But at least Moody's closest friends believed it entirely plausible that he would have used dustbins as an alarm system, from what we can tell. Arthur and Amos seem to take it entirely in stride - more an, "Uh-oh, got to go bail Moody out... again" than a, "He did what? Better get over there..." That suggests that dustbin-alarms are the sort of thing the real Moody did. Lucky for Barty! Moody really made his job easy in so many ways.

[hwyla.livejournal.com]

There is also the equal possibility that the dustbins really were part of Moody's alarm system and that they went off just as expected when Barty tripped them. But by the time anyone else got there he had subdued Moody, put him in the trunk, gotten a hair and drank the polyjuice.

[oryx_leucoryx]

?? Barty claims he moved the dustbins after the fact in his Veritaserum-forced confession.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

but Hermione has packed everything they need: changes of clothes, Harry’s invisibility cloak, reference books, luggage--

But not food.

She packs clothes. But not food.

She packs kitchen utensils and cutlery. But not food.

She packs *tea*. But no food.

Because Rowling needs Hermione to FORGET the food, thus giving Ron the BEST EXCUSE EVAH to abandon his friends.

What a terrible book.

Hermione is sexually harassed by some drunk men.

No, we're just being shown again that Hermione is all grown up and pretty now, a suitable prize to be awarded to Won Won. It's all part of the OBHWF solution, Ron doesn't have to worry about a girlfriend, Hermione has been parked waiting for him for, like, YEARS. No worries Ron!

This is a contrived scene because as soon as the DEs are defeated, Ron recognizes one and Harry the other.

Oh, excellent, another error to add to the list!

That is, perhaps she tried to mind-rape her parents and change their identities, but she wasn’t successful. ... and she had to kill them.

What?!?!?!

This is not a girl who cries easily.

I really believe that this is not true; my recollection is the exact opposite. Tears and all sorts of emotions. (One of my favourite, most awesome fanfic authors has his Hermione remarking on how prone she is to crying; part of my conviction on this point is indirectly through him.)

Just looking at OotP:

- Ron was standing there with his mouth half‐open, clearly stunned and at a loss for anything to say, whilst Hermione looked on the verge of tears.

- ʹHarry weʹre really sorry!ʹ said Hermione desperately, her eyes now sparkling with tears. ʹYouʹre absolutely right, Harry ‐ Iʹd be furious if it was me!ʹ

- Hagrid stared at her, clearly at a complete loss to understand why she was acting as though he did not understand normal English. Hermione had tears of fury in her eyes now.

- Just like Hermione, Pansy had tears in her eyes, but these were tears of laughter;

- ʹBut why?ʹ asked Hermione, who sounded as though she wanted to cry. ʹWhy ‐ what ‐ oh, Hagrid!

- There was a pause in which Harry glared at her, and her eyes filled slowly with tears.

- ʹYou said you didnʹt hurt the innocent!ʹ shouted Hermione, real tears sliding down her face now.

(My goodness, all of that from just ONE search for ONE word in ONE of the seven books!)

And of course she's completely overwrought when she listens to Kreacher's tale in DH.

This is the girl who spends months trying to save Buckbeak's life. The girl who gives 'Granger-class hugs'. Nah.

No, sorry, you're absolutely wrong on this. Your faulty recollection of Hermione's lack of crying is a single erroneous fact on which your whole (preposterous) proposition is perched?

Harry displays textbook Gryffindor bravado by boasting that he’d love to fight Snape.

That really really vexed me in this chapter. Your 'Gryffindor bravado' equals my 'stupidity'. So STUPID. But Hermione and Ron let it go. This from the boy who was wiped out with ease by Snape in their last encounter.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Now that I think about it, was that scene really necessary?

I think that scene was just to show again that Hermione is all grown up and pretty now, a suitable prize to be awarded to Won Won. It's all part of the OBHWF solution, Ron doesn't have to worry about a girlfriend, Hermione has been parked waiting for him for, like, YEARS. No worries Ron! You have a pretty girl waiting for you, no sweat or exertion necessary!

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

However, this “terrifying” vision is undermined by more logical contradictions. Voldy snarls that Rowle called Voldy back to report he’d let Harry get away--but Hermione Obliviated Rowle, so how is that possible?

Oh, wow, excellent, yet another error! I've never come across that one before, good one! You've really put some work into this.

Six years since publication and the error count is STILL increasing.

I just can't believe how bad this book is. Well, how such a literary catastrophe could have been so commercially successful. What a travesty.

[sunnyskywalker]

I guess it just isn't dramatic enough for Ron to get sick of eating earwax-flavored wizarding protein bars. Or to have the spells that turn dead leaves into food making only dead-leaf-flavored food, or nothing but lettuce.

I'd take that last example off your list, since crying at the possibility of being torn limb from limb by centaurs (or whatever harm Hermione was envisioning) isn't what I'd call crying "easily," ie at little provocation. That's plenty of provocation! The best you can say in that scene is that she cries more easily than Harry in that kind of situation. I can't recall the context of the other examples offhand, though, so your point may stand in general.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

Voldy snarls that Rowle called Voldy back to report he’d let Harry get away--but Hermione Obliviated Rowle, so how is that possible?

More support for your idea that Hermione's attempt to erase her parents memory didn't work. She failed at Obliviating her parents. Then she tries to Oblivate Rowle and that doesn't work, which is why he is able to report back to Voldemort.