ext_6866: (Default)
[identity profile] sistermagpie.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock


Possibly the bitchiest chapter ever!


  • Harry continues to unintentionally help the Ministry by acting the part of the attention-seeking glory hound angry with everyone for not believing him without doing much to make anyone believe him.


  • Part of what makes this book such an unpleasant read-which doesn't have to be a criticism-is how perfectly Harry and Umbridge egg each other on. If there's one thing these books re-create wonderfully, it's the feeling of wanting to beat the shit out of someone, whether it's Umbridge, Malfoy, Harry…whoever. People always describe this book as "dark," but honestly it doesn't read to me as dark so much as just stressed out and pissy.


  • Ron suggests Umbridge is spying on them and Hermione has no patience with him trying to make deductions. Though compared to her own announcement that "There are 2 prefects from every house," to a room full of fifth years who would know that already Ron's "I think Umbridge is spying on Harry!" is a shocking revelation.


  • As crazy as it sounds, the Twins paying kids to be test subjects is a step up for them.


  • Why is Hermione not picked on in canon? Her attitude in the scene with the twins, and throughout the last chapter and this one, is relentlessly angry and repressive. Exactly the type of thing the kids--particularly the twins--stand against in every other situation. She even threatens to tell on the twins to their mother (who in this scene is allegedly somebody they listen to). She yells at most everyone, and those she doesn't yell at she's contemptuous of (Lavender and Parvati) or condescending about. Why is she not continually covered in boils or humiliated, like everyone else is who acts like this? Isn't she actually far worse than Percy ever was in this regard? I'm not saying I want her to be hexed, especially, but given the rules of the universe the only reason she isn't seems to be that everybody's supposed to know she's important.


  • Ron isn't doing anything to stop the twins, because Hermione will handle it. I can almost see the beer belly in Ron's future as he lies in the armchair letting Hermione deal with everything. (Which she wants to do--they're such a perfect couple--OMG OTP!!)

  • Hermione then takes out knitting. Busywork-cause-mystery solving-homework-letter writing. I fleetingly wonder what the series would have been like if the boys had fought the troll with Lavender Brown instead.


  • Hermione yells at Ron for suggesting the house elves don't want to be free when of course they want to be free-they just want to be tricked into becoming free by her. She's done nothing but snap, nag and order for two chapters now. In fact, I feel like if we looked back at her lines almost all of them would have some essence of, "Shut up, you're wrong, let me do all the talking and thinking."


  • I think in the next book Hermione should just be replaced by a large dental drill.


  • Ron waits until she's gone then slumps off to clear the hats of rubbish because the elves should "know what they're picking up, at least." Ron, they're slaves! They can't think for themselves!


  • ETA: Well. What to say about this now? The whole R/Hr "romance" comes to a head when Ron pretty much does exactly what he does here, suggests the House Elves ought to make big decisions about their lives. And Hermione, who's since forgotten her position that House Elves want to be free, will congratulate him on his change of heart when in fact she has changed more on this issue than Ron, who goes from barely giving a damn to barely giving a damn.


  • On the plus side, Harry gets his own slave to make him sandwiches and must do anything he says whenever he wants. Sweet!


  • Seamus appears to still be trying to determine the truth about things, which is hard in a world that prizes snap decisions based on what your friends and family believe. Even though Harry insulted his mother Seamus he seems to want to know whether Harry's telling the truth or not--what's that about? He must get that from his Muggle father. We'll hex that out of him soon enough.


  • Hagrid still missing. I think Hagrid and Ginny should share the award for "Characters you must adore or be driven mad."


  • Ron and Hermione snap and huff at each other some more. Ron says her hats look like wooly bladders and she refuses to speak to him for, like, the entire day. Yeah, sleeping together is going to make this relationship all better. Please have lots of children soon too.


  • Though to be honest in this book I almost wonder if Lavender and Parvati don't torture Hermione constantly by pretending she's made mistakes when she hasn't just to drive her insane.


  • Draco appears-yay! People are laughing! But they're laughing at Harry, probably. Grrrrrr. Draco's such a dream bully-yes, you really are the most important person in his life! He has no life outside of making yours hell! He's just jealous!


  • Draco imitates Hermione and Pansy shrieks with laughter-that's some laugh! I fleetingly wish Draco would do an imitation of Hermione yelling at everyone from morning till night, which has by far replaced the image of Hermione raising her hand in class.


  • Of course Harry sees the imitation when Hermione doesn't, because he's staring at Malfoy. Awww.


  • Harry is angered by stupid Lavender and Parvati showing interest in creatures Hagrid hadn't shown them. See how much pleasanter Harry is when we don't have to take him completely seriously?


  • Draco gives Harry a hint about where Hagrid is. Draco, being evil, is pleased Hagrid is gone and so am I, which I guess makes me evil too. Now that the series is over I realize I am completely unable to imagine where or how Draco gets his insider info except for the general "His Dad's a DE."


  • Obligingly, Draco refrains from making the joke a 15-year-old boy really would make at Harry running up to the sub, wringing his hands and asking when Hagrid would return: Potter, why are you so obsessed with Hagrid missing? Is he your boyfriend? Nobody round here can satisfy you the way his half-giant self can?


  • Hermione tells Harry exactly what to do about Malfoy (Oh god, make her stop!) and also says Dumbledore would know if anything happened to Hagrid. Um, yeah, he would know. But that doesn't mean he'd tell you guys.


  • Hermione reminds Harry that Malfoy's a prefect and so could make things difficult to add to Harry's feelings oppression. Though Malfoy's being a Prefect doesn't actually make him any different.


  • Harry makes a joke about having a hard life and Ron laughs, though I wonder if Ron is laughing for the same reasons Harry is. Hermione frowns at it-NO HUMOR EVER FOR HERMIONE IN THIS BOOK!


  • JKR's characters have relatively little sense of humor about themselves at all. It's the kind of humor born out of anger rather than pain, if you know what I mean. If it's humor from pain, it must be the pain of someone you are angry at, not your own pain.


  • Luna believes Harry because Luna is determined to believe whatever the majority doesn't believe as part of her persona. Hermione judges that Harry can "do better than her." I'm not bothered by Hermione's attitude towards Luna--I often agree with her. (I seem to remember shocking somebody in a previous discussion about not thinking I would back down from "Everyone knows the Quibbler's rubbish.")


  • However again, think about Hermione's personality in the last two chapters and think about how this personality would have been treated if attached to a non-Trio character.


  • As came up in the previous chapter, isn't it kind of odd that Hermione is impatient about believing in things like Snorkacks, when she's Muggleborn? The girl suddenly found out every creature out of a fairy tale was true when she was 11.


  • One might wonder if Hermione was particularly bothered by Luna with the way she dismissively tells Harry he could do better than her, but Hermione is so relentlessly disapproving of everyone nowadays she's probably not.


  • Ernie, the Pureblood, make a Neville-like gesture of support. His family's always been behind Dumbledore-like Neville's-and they still are. Again, not so much for evidence or logic, but they're for Dumbledore. Seamus-still paying attention but also still angry at Harry-tries to decide what's true based on what is actually true. Seamus is fast becoming my True Hero of the Potterverse.


  • OWLS becomes the new Expulsion Hearing-something for Harry to feel nervous about in his free moments so he's always harassed about something.


  • Heh. I love Professor Umbridge's office, though I must admit at this point I don't really "get" her personality; what she's supposed to believe, what her motivations are supposed to be. I really feel like I should, but I can't.


  • Continuing with pain management in the Potterverse, the quill is very very painful. Searing pain. Harry, who is good, is in pain. Does Hermione ever learn about this quill? I suspect she'd want Harry to get her one for future personal use-in the fight against Voldemort, of course.


  • Harry continues to be Umbridge's perfect subject. She sure knows how to play the Gryffindor Code against itself (he won't tell Dumbledore, he'll make it into a battle of wills just like she wants).


  • I notice in this book the way Harry is always surprised that as much as he hates one person, he can hate another person more. It fits right in with the constantly feeling harassed and constant anger and pissiness. I mention it because in this book especially Harry hate knows no bounds. It's Hatefest UK!


  • Hermione seems to be going along a similar path where this is the book she's constantly amazed at how every time she thinks the people around her couldn't be stupider, they surprise her. Maybe she's having a sympathy possession.


  • The twins are still testing on first years against Hermione's orders. From their perspective, Hermione=Umbridge Jr. Yet they don't hold it against her. Hermione=Molly Jr.?


  • Harry's now acting like Dumbledore's neglected girlfriend as well as Hagrid's: I'm not going to him until he comes to me!


  • Personally, I would have marched up to his office and informed him that he'd hired a psychopath. But then brave students never go to adults for help. You do that and next thing you know your parents might be asking after injuries at school.


  • I would like to point out that Ron has apparently been made Keeper because he's a Weasley and Angelina assumes this means it's in his blood, making him a better choice than people who were better than he was in the tryouts. Nope, no blood prejudice in this house!


  • Well, at least the Weasleys don't buy brooms for the team. All the Gryffindor players earn it their places on talent! Even if it's the talent of their elder siblings.


  • Hermione would never be so stupid as Harry as to think Umbridge is connected to Voldemort like Quirrel was just because she made Harry's scar hurt. That was so four books ago! After a few more reminders of all the ways she's right, she goes to bed.


  • When Harry finds Hermione asleep in front of the fire I assumed the twins had drugged her but it looks like they didn't.


  • All three kids in the Trio are tired from lack of sleep. Harry had to do homework after his detention, Ron's been practicing Quidditch, Hermione has no reason to stay up late but she's decided to make hats until the wee hours. It gives me this picture of a girl desperately finding fake reasons to stay in the common room because she's so disliked by her dorm mates she would rather wait until they are asleep before she goes to bed. That idea should make me feel sorry for her, except that a) I don't think it's what the author intends-she's just driven and besides she needs to be even with the boys and b) she seems like a grown woman so probably really doesn't care if the 15-year-old girls don't like her.







Designated Hero
Take your pick.

Idiot Picture
Why would anyone complain to the Headmaster about a teacher harassing them? Let him come to them first!

Final score: 2
Page 1 of 5 << [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] >>

Date: 2008-01-18 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] violaswamp.livejournal.com
It gives me this picture of a girl desperately finding fake reasons to stay in the common room because she's so disliked by her dorm mates she would rather wait until they are asleep before she goes to bed. That idea should make me feel sorry for her, except that a) I don't think it's what the author intends-she's just driven and besides she needs to be even with the boys and b) she seems like a grown woman so probably really doesn't care if the 15-year-old girls don't like her.

Ha! You are so completely right about Hermione.

Date: 2008-01-18 05:09 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] artystone.livejournal.com
Why is Hermione not picked on in canon? Her attitude in the scene with the twins, and throughout the last chapter and this one, is relentlessly angry and repressive. Exactly the type of thing the kids--particularly the twins--stand against in every other situation. She even threatens to tell on the twins to their mother (who in this scene is allegedly somebody they listen to). She yells at most everyone, and those she doesn't yell at she's contemptuous of (Lavender and Parvati) or condescending about. Why is she not continually covered in boils or humiliated, like everyone else is who acts like this? Isn't she actually far worse than Percy ever was in this regard? I'm not saying I want her to be hexed, especially, but given the rules of the universe the only reason she isn't seems to be that everybody's supposed to know she's important.

Hermione + 20 years = Umbridge.

Hermione then takes out knitting.

See above. Anyone with kitten art on her wall and a hair bow must certainly enjoy something fiddly like knitting.

Hermione yells at Ron for suggesting the house elves don't want to be free when of course they want to be free-they just want to be tricked into becoming free by her.

See above above. Again.

Rinse, lather, repeat.



However again, think about Hermione's personality in the last two chapters and think about how this personality would have been treated if attached to a non-Trio character.


Uh...

;)

Date: 2008-01-18 05:24 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] dancesontrains.livejournal.com
Personally, I would have marched up to his office and informed him that he'd hired a psychopath. But then brave students never go to adults for help. You do that and next thing you know your parents might be asking after injuries at school.

Why has it taken me so long to be reminded of the attitudes in Tom Brown's Schooldays? Very, very similar.


Date: 2008-01-18 05:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] teratologist.livejournal.com
I think in the next book Hermione should just be replaced by a large dental drill.

Perhaps there is something to the theory of maternal impressions, after all.

Date: 2008-01-18 06:16 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aasaylva.livejournal.com
Harry continues to unintentionally help the Ministry by acting the part of the attention-seeking glory hound angry with everyone for not believing him without doing much to make anyone believe him.
IMO, this was a rather well done piece of characterization - I mean, it's foolish, but very much in Harry's character (and generally very adolescent) to stand up for something, no matter what the cost or the sense in it...

People always describe this book as "dark," but honestly it doesn't read to me as dark so much as just stressed out and pissy.
Very well said. I liked it, because it made you want to throttle them all - but I still loved them at this point (the downfall being HBP).

Why is Hermione not picked on in canon?
I suppose the most likely reason is the general idea that YOU DON'T MESS WITH MISS H. GRANGER!!! Which I think is not as unlikely as it seems on first sight: As has been said on this board before - Gryffindor is the house of bullies. You don't pick on the alpha dog unless you see a good chance of overthrowing him (or her in this case). And Hermione is virtually bullet-proof in this regard: she is an excellent witch, meaning she might be difficult to attack from the beginning. Failing that, she's got two goons one of whom faced Voldemort several times over, which is bound to be somewhat awe-inspiring. And in the end, most of the teachers and expecially the headmaster like her as being a good student AND part of the trio.

Your beer-belly Ron needs to be drawn!!! Where are the artists?!?

Hermione then takes out knitting.
Hermione is the new Miss Marple. And the ever-busy house-wife, and the worker bee. In itself a very convincing portrait (I know people like this). But tell me again why she also is the alluring venus-trap for international Quidditch-players and assorted Hogwarts students? Salvation army Worker bees are not usually lascivous as well...

I think in the next book Hermione should just be replaced by a large dental drill.
WIN!!!!!!!

Ron waits until she's gone then slumps off to clear the hats of rubbish because the elves should "know what they're picking up, at least."
Anyone else got the feeling he acted out of solidarity with the elves here - not towards oppression by Hogwarts but by Hermione?

Yeah, sleeping together is going to make this relationship all better.
Um - how long do you want to bet it will take him to not get it up any more in this marriage?

I fleetingly wish Draco would do an imitation of Hermione yelling at everyone from morning till night, which has by far replaced the image of Hermione raising her hand in class.
I am not sure, but do we know she yells at anyone outside Gryffindor? Maybe Draco isn't in on that new development and yelling is just a sign she cares (must be, regarding Ron)?

Dumbledore would know if anything happened to Hagrid. Um, yeah, he would know. But that doesn't mean he'd tell you guys.
Nor does it mean he'd care.

Hermione frowns at it-NO HUMOR EVER FOR HERMIONE IN THIS BOOK!
Worker bee! Worker bee! And humorless nags are so sexy!

Isn't it kind of odd that Hermione is impatient about believing in things like Snorkacks, when she's Muggleborn?
Actually, I don't think so. Hermione believes in books. So - before 11 - she believed in what Muggle books told her (there is no magic). Now she has access to wizarding books and believes what's written there - Hippogriffs and Basilisks exist, Snorkacks don't. In fact, it's not so different from our world - most people haven't seen germs or the moons of Jupiter themselves,b ut they believe in them, because scientific books say so and don't believe in UFOs, because people who talk about them are not deemed reliable.

I would like to point out that Ron has apparently been made Keeper because he's a Weasley and Angelina assumes this means it's in his blood, making him a better choice than people who were better than he was in the tryouts. Nope, no blood prejudice in this house!

Date: 2008-01-18 06:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aasaylva.livejournal.com
Sorry, I forgot to erase the last paragraph - wasn't by me.

Date: 2008-01-18 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aasaylva.livejournal.com
Heh. I love Professor Umbridge's office, though I must admit at this point I don't really "get" her personality
Hmm - just as a suggestion for discussion perhaps: When OotP came out, I didn't even know fanfiction existed - much less fics of the pornographic variety. Still, Umbridge was the one person who, to me, came across as decidedly twisted in a sexual way and I still retain that feeling: She seems to be sort of split between her "unsexual" self, where she remains a little girl, Daddy Fudge's little girl to be precise. Hence all the fluffy cardigans, hair bows, sweet little kittens, gentle voice and so on. The way she talks to the students at the welcome back feast sounds very much like a little girl adressing her dolls with whom she is playing school. The way she talks about Fudge is not so much respectful or even strictly party-line, but seems very personal, sounding like a daughter of for example a widower who tries to replace her daddy's wife by looking after him, telling everybody how great her daddy is, saving him trouble etc.
Her sexual side is perverted into the sadistic variety - subconsciously, Harry seems to feel this when he is ashamed of telling anyone about the quills-session. I mean - why would he be ashamed? He hasn't "lost" against her anymore than, say, against Snape, the other teacher who gives him detentions he hasn't deserved. Yet he never is ashamed of those detentions. His excuse for not telling Dumbledore sounds more than flimsy - again giving off that feeling of an abused child not wanting to trouble mummy with tales about what oncle is doing to them. And the final nearly-cruciatus-session with her panting at the thought of having Harry writhe in front of her? Dark fic is canon...

Date: 2008-01-18 07:20 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lachlanm.livejournal.com
sistermagpie: I think in the next book Hermione should just be replaced by a large dental drill.


Uncle Vernon could probably provide one.


Actually, I think it would be really funny if Uncle Vernon is the Grangers' drill supplier.

Date: 2008-01-18 08:57 pm (UTC)
arcanetrivia: a light purple swirl on a darker purple background (annoyed (snapesmite))
From: [personal profile] arcanetrivia
the feeling of wanting to beat the shit out of someone [...] People always describe this book as "dark," but honestly it doesn't read to me as dark so much as just stressed out and pissy.

That's a great way to describe it. Of course, I was pretty stressed out and pissy a lot of the time when I was 15, too, so maybe that was well-done.

I rarely get worked up at things like this, but I really, really wanted to hit Umbridge so hard she would travel back in time. They managed to evoke that feeling very well in the movie, too, for what that's worth. *seethes at Umbridge*

Hermione=Molly Jr.?

Absolutely. Ginny doesn't fulfill this role, so it has to be Hermione by dint of marrying Ron.

Date: 2008-01-18 09:11 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] montavilla.livejournal.com
I agee and I'll add that her comeuppance has a sexual tinge to it. Centaurs in classical myth are often associated with rape. Her appearance at the end of OotP, with the leaves in her hair, and her PTSD reaction to the clip-clopping are strong hints that she was raped or gang-raped after she was carried off.

Going off the deep end here... I just noticed that there's a strong association (all implied) between sex and animals in this series. Another character who seems to get off on the idea of hurting children is Fenrir Greyback, who is, of course, a werewolf. JKR as much as said that Aberforth was having sex with goats. Almost all the characters in the books who actually have sex are either part-animal or described in animalistic ways. Fleur is part-Veela, Bill has "wolfish tendencies," dead-sexy Sirius is an animagus, Lupin is a werewolf. The only non-animal "sexy" person I can think of is Bellatrix. (I'm talking about sexy as viewed by Harry. Fans make everyone sexy.)

Even Harry's sex drive is animalistic. It's not him, it's a "monster" that claws around in his chest.

Date: 2008-01-18 10:07 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] aasaylva.livejournal.com
Very good observations. Interesting that it was the (IMO) essentially sexless Hermione, that instrumentalized the centaurs in this way. Of course, Umbridge's first name means "pains" and may well have been chosen just because of that. But at the same time, at least in my country (Germany), "Dolores" is a typical Spanish name, about like Carmen (remember Bizet), often associated with dancers or generally sexually aggressive, seductive but cruel women. The femme fatale variety. It would tye in with Rowling's depiction of sexuality as something animalistic and essentially bad - remember, the House of Water/ the Serpent is also the inherently bad house, which has to be cowed and accepted IN SPITE of itself. Somehow, I always envision Petunia with her pinched lips when faced with a stain when I think of JKR explaining about Slytherin...

Date: 2008-01-18 10:44 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lachlanm.livejournal.com
aasaylva:
Still, Umbridge was the one person who, to me, came across as decidedly twisted in a sexual way and I still retain that feeling: She seems to be sort of split between her "unsexual" self, where she remains a little girl, Daddy Fudge's little girl to be precise. Hence all the fluffy cardigans, hair bows, sweet little kittens, gentle voice and so on. The way she talks to the students at the welcome back feast sounds very much like a little girl adressing her dolls with whom she is playing school. The way she talks about Fudge is not so much respectful or even strictly party-line, but seems very personal, sounding like a daughter of for example a widower who tries to replace her daddy's wife by looking after him, telling everybody how great her daddy is, saving him trouble etc. Her sexual side is perverted into the sadistic variety....



This is so Elle Bishop (http://heroeswiki.com/Elle_Bishop). I never noticed that parallel before.

Date: 2008-01-18 10:45 pm (UTC)
From: [identity profile] lachlanm.livejournal.com
I felt the same way about Umbridge in the books. Oddly, though, movie!Umbridge seemed like the only redeeming feature of OotP to me. I think it was the whole three-spoons-of-sugar-in-a-tiny-teacup stunt. That was my favorite part.

Date: 2008-01-18 11:43 pm (UTC)
arcanetrivia: a light purple swirl on a darker purple background (Default)
From: [personal profile] arcanetrivia
Oh yeah, I loved that bit. I could never drink tea that sweet, ew.

Date: 2008-01-19 01:38 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] static-pixie.livejournal.com
Harry continues to be Umbridge's perfect subject. She sure knows how to play the Gryffindor Code against itself (he won't tell Dumbledore, he'll make it into a battle of wills just like she wants)
So true! You know that anyone else from any other house would have pussied out and told an authority figure about being tortured by the new DADA teacher. But not Harry. He has to make life harder for himself so that he can then whine about how unfair it all is.

I notice in this book the way Harry is always surprised that as much as he hates one person, he can hate another person more. It fits right in with the constantly feeling harassed and constant anger and pissiness. I mention it because in this book especially Harry hate knows no bounds. It's Hatefest UK!
Except it's actually headlined by Voldemort instead of Harry. :P Of course.

Well, at least the Weasleys don't buy brooms for the team. All the Gryffindor players earn it their places on talent! Even if it's the talent of their elder siblings.
Or talent the author pulls out of nowhere in order to make them more compatible with the hero! Can't forget that (on a side note, I don't know whether to be happy or sad we never got to see Ginny go up against Draco. I feel like, if JKR were actually being realistic, Draco would have creamed her, but then...when is she ever?)

Why is Hermione not picked on in canon? Her attitude in the scene with the twins, and throughout the last chapter and this one, is relentlessly angry and repressive. Exactly the type of thing the kids--particularly the twins--stand against in every other situation. She even threatens to tell on the twins to their mother (who in this scene is allegedly somebody they listen to). She yells at most everyone, and those she doesn't yell at she's contemptuous of (Lavender and Parvati) or condescending about. Why is she not continually covered in boils or humiliated, like everyone else is who acts like this? Isn't she actually far worse than Percy ever was in this regard? I'm not saying I want her to be hexed, especially, but given the rules of the universe the only reason she isn't seems to be that everybody's supposed to know she's important.
I'd never thought of that, but you're kind of right. Especially because she cries so often; I'd think her weepiness would cancel out any kind of impact her magical ability might have made. She makes Moaning Myrtle look stoic. Hmmm. Maybe because she's JKR's self-insert?

Date: 2008-01-19 01:49 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] j-lunatic.livejournal.com
"Dolores" is a typical Spanish name, about like Carmen (remember Bizet), often associated with dancers or generally sexually aggressive, seductive but cruel women.

The name comes from the same root as "dolorous"--painful and/or sad. There's a fairly famous poem by Swinburne celebrating a Dolores as his "Lady of Pain" (he was a serious masochist, so this was just his thing). And "Lolita" is a diminutive of Dolores.

As for characters with strong associations with animals, think about Umbridge's association with cats. Then remember how a cat that's caught a mouse will play with it.
Page 1 of 5 << [1] [2] [3] [4] [5] >>

Profile

deathtocapslock: (Default)
death to capslock

September 2025

S M T W T F S
 1 23456
78910111213
14151617181920
21222324252627
282930    

Most Popular Tags

Style Credit

Expand Cut Tags

No cut tags
Page generated Apr. 6th, 2026 03:56 pm
Powered by Dreamwidth Studios