OotP Chapter Sixteen

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

* One has to wonder what lessons Harry has been going over in his head to teach the DA based on what he's learned from his own victories: Be very loyal to Dumbledore. Have the same wand core as your opponent. Don't be a spare. Try to only go up against enemies who turn into babbling idiots when faced with a child opponent (well, that one they learned very well, as we shall see!). ETA: If you screw up, hope your wand will do the fighting for you for reasons never fully explained.

* I'm still not completely on board with Hermione's manipulative gentle reminder that Harry's being able to do all sorts of things that grown wizards can't makes him a good teacher. How do you teach someone to do something that you never had to learn to do yourself? Gary Stu's generally make bad teachers.

* Um, Viktor. Yeah. 18 years old, wants to date the 14-year-old swot who is sometimes 40 and lectures incessantly. Perhaps the language barrier really helps Hermione out. ETA: Now that we know Hermione was 15, Viktor's a little less creepy. ETA: I hope everyone noted that while Viktor seemed shy and only wanting to date girls of substance in GoF, in DH he's a playa after pretty girls. Iow, Hermione and Ginny are both really pretty.

* Clearly he was so heartbroken over his storyline with Hermione fading away to nothing without ever being resolved he decided to go shallow for the rest of his life. Hermione made a man out of him.

* "We ought to be fair and teach anyone who wants to learn." Which in this universe means: Select out the kids we think are like us and want to kick Dark Wizard arse and make them loyal to me us you.

* But let's present it as a simple passing on of information and not tell anyone there's any oaths of loyalty involved.

* Hermione and Ron "sound people out" about the DA. I can't help but imagine having those people look at them and say, "Do we know each other?"

* Though it is refreshing to actually hear about a conversation with somebody off screen that wasn't about that person being told to shut the hell up.

* Sirius is sulking. Luckily this kind of thing is considered normal behavior in the WW. All adults sulk, bully, cry and have temper tantrums in front of kids, usually while asking the kids to lie for them or fix their lives. If there was a second generation story the Trio would come across as even worse, though, I suspect, which isn't a criticism.

*ETA: Well, now that we've seen them as adults I feel like they actually wouldn't come across as worse so much as boring and full of themselves. Another disappointment.

* It's bad of Ron to point out that Kreacher's a horrible person to be shut up with even though he is, because as an elf he can't be horrible. He can only reflect the horribleness of wizards. ETA: No, this is not a bigoted idea, but carefully laying the groundwork for the revelation in DH that House Elves really *aren't* anything more than yet another narcissistic reflection of the Wizards they know.

* I will never understand Hermione's nervousness at saying Voldemort. She's Muggleborn for chrissake. If Harry's never seen any reason to fear saying his name and I, as a Muggle reader, has never seen any reason to fear saying his name, she shouldn't either.

* I don't see why Sirius' not having a Dark Mark should make it clear whether he's a Voldemort supporter or not. If he were supposed to be a traitor why would Voldemort mark him? Oh wait, this is Voldemort. He probably *would* be stupid enough to tattoo I AM A SPY on one of his spies.

* Hermione's done all her homework and is taking more classes and finds time to knit more socks. Maybe if she does enough busywork it will make up for having no inner life in this book at all. Is this all supposed to be pent-up sexual frustration?

* Harry still never thinks any further than Malfoy when somebody does something against him, even when he thinks the whole school's out to get him and there's an actual villain (Umbridge) who is openly harassing him. Harry's growing into a real Wizard--remember these were the people who saw Harry get entered into a deadly combat by person's unknown and didn't wonder if Voldemort did it and never much investigated it either.

* Hermione tells Harry and the reader that Harry is wrong and is seen clearly Figuring Everything Out the rest of the walk. You can see why Harry's the hero here. Imagine how boring it would be if we were in Hermione's head actively making connections and deciding what to do next. Real heroes are passive! Passive=Virtue. Let go, let God the author's contrivances Dumbledore, Harry!

* Just want to remind everyone this tiny world can apparently sustain two practical joke shops but no theater and apparently only one pop music group. Ah, wizarding culture.

* Even Harry knows (and of course appreciates) that Hermione's not starting a study group or a homework group. Then she "snarls" at Ron not to order firewhiskey because he's a Prefect. Because Hermione's still the rule-enforcer here, don't you forget it! We only break rules for the greater good!

*Luckily it's not like Ron has the brains or the guts to ignore her or challenge her on that.

* Despite her own ability to twist rules, Hermione still often seems to think other people are magically bound by them and will be helpless against her creative interpretation, despite the fact that she knows somebody who was in jail for 13 years for a crime he didn't commit.

* Harry doesn't even know the names of other Quidditch players? That's impressive.

* Why does no one know Harry can produce a Patronus? Didn't he do it at a Quidditch game? As usual the Hogwarts gossip mill turns slowly and revolves around Harry's needs.

* I like it when Luna is bitchy in general (which she sadly only does in OotP that I remember), though I kind of wish she'd pull the Pureblood card and point out Hermione spent the first 11 years of her life not knowing half the stuff around her now wasn't real. Unfortunately, that's only something Bad Purebloods do.

*Seriously, JKR basically writes Hermione as a Pureblood until it's time for Slytherin to look bad, then suddenly she's a minority or mind-raping her parents for plot reasons.

*Too bad Luna's weird theories remained just a superficial gag I had to put up with without finding it very funny.

* Ginny does impressions too! She is so funny and cool! And she does impressions of teachers, which is much better than that nasty Malfoy's impressions!

*Hermione shows up all ready with her cursed parchment the first day, and describes it thusly: "We ought to agree not to shout about what we're doing, so if you sign you're agreeing not to tell Umbridge or anybody else what we're up to." Is it wrong that Voldemort is probably more honest to new recruits than she is? They're signing their lives away here for what sounds like a lot less than it really is.

*Hermione shows not a moment's hesitation in coaxing or pushing reluctant people to sign a serious oath like this when she knows the curse that's on this thing and, more importantly in her view, she knows the danger of having somebody who isn't loyal. (JKR expressed surprise that nobody ever asks if Hermione will die rather than Ron, and I'm beginning to wonder if the reason is underneath everybody knows she's a scary mofo and would probably take anybody in a ten mile radius with her if she died!)

*::sigh:: It would have been great if Harry wound up telling Hagrid or Dumbledore about the thing and got SNEAK himself.

*I assume the word SNEAK is supposed to refer to Hermione herself, btw. Oh wait, it's supposed to be Marietta? I don't know how I could make that mistake.

* Ginny's going out with Michael Corner! She's so cool! And she talks now because she gave up on Harry...though still manages to talk in front of Michael and everyone else because Harry is the only boy who strikes her dumb. He is her Twu Love. We know because to her Amortentia smells like a boy who only showers ever few weeks.

* I know this comes as a shock but I so do not buy this joke about the "real" Ginny. She talked in the last book without running her sassy nails down a blackboard every time she did it.

* After setting Harry straight on the H/G, Hermione moves on to the Harry/Cho. Because she noticed that too. Hermione notices everything. Hermione is plot robot.

* BTW, are we supposed to think Umbridge knew about their meeting and that's why she did the decree? Because that doesn't make sense to me.



Designated Hero
Hermione will do the designating here, thank you very much.

IITS:
The "Everybody thinks Harry's crazy" idea, having served its purpose, seems to be fading away fast.

Idiot World:
Voldemort's back! No he's not! Yes he is! Tell us what to think, Hermione!

Misdirected Answering:
And when you're finished, tell me more about Ginny's love life. Exactly when did she get over Harry? How did she get together with Michael? She met him at the Ball? That must have been a fun night for Neville.

Final score: 4

Comments

[horridporrid.livejournal.com]

Is this all supposed to be pent-up sexual frustration?

Probably not. Because good girls only do it to land their man and make babies. And Hermione is obviously so above icky feelings of sexual desire. At least, that's how I read Hermione's story line. But then you've got...

Ginny's going out with Michael Corner! She's so cool!

Which, I'm quite sure the future keeper of Harry's seed is supposed to be just as pure as Hermione, so this dating other boys thing could be semi-confusing, except...

And she talks now because she gave up on Harry...though still manages to talk in front of Michael and everyone else because Harry is the only boy who strikes her dumb. He is her Twu Love.

So, as Hermione was with Viktor, Ginny's just getting some "experience" under her belt so that when she finally settles down at the ripe old age of sixteen, she's not a loser. (Like her brother very nearly was.) It's not like Ginny was really into Michael or Dean or anything. They wanted her, but she could take them or leave them.

God, JKR has such a screwed up view of female sexuality.

[kaskait.livejournal.com]

* I will never understand Hermione's nervousness at saying Voldemort. She's Muggleborn for chrissake. If Harry's never seen any reason to fear saying his name and I, as a Muggle reader, has never seen any reason to fear saying his name, she shouldn't either.

Yet another misstep in the series when it moved from Children's fairy tale to Young Adult novel. The bogie man aspect to Riddle's nickname should have been explained. Now it just makes the WW look like a bunch of "special" folks who need Hermione to show them the true light...with Harry as her enforcer.

Maybe the WW already have their new DL.

* Ginny's going out with Michael Corner! She's so cool! And she talks now because she gave up on Harry...though still manages to talk in front of Michael and everyone else because Harry is the only boy who strikes her dumb. He is her Twu Love. We know because to her Amortentia smells like a boy who only showers ever few weeks.

This is just a messed up but prevalent(among certain types) strategy to get your man/or girl. The "Try-to-ignore-them-date-another-and-make-everyone-feel-like-crap" ploy. It is always my favorite, used by NICEGUYS or NICEGIRLS everywhere. Can't you just smell the latent anger within it? That whole "I'm a great gal/guy and my obsession is too dumb to know it" vibe. It is paired with its sister mindset of "I'm a true superlative and I deserve MY EQUAL. Why aren't I getting what is coming to me? He/She owes me a date, sex, marriage etc." I've experienced this ploy and it is a huge turn-off. But of course, to the guys who did it, it was my fault. I just couldn't see the true loveliness inside of them.

I see that "Nicegirl" deal in Ginny. But I can't see why she bothered since Harry didn't know she was breathing. He is a slow learner though. Which is why he took two books to finally SUFFER and thank his Equal for doing it too.

[lachlanm.livejournal.com]

sistermagpie: * I will never understand Hermione's nervousness at saying Voldemort. She's Muggleborn for chrissake. If Harry's never seen any reason to fear saying his name and I, as a Muggle reader, has never seen any reason to fear saying his name, she shouldn't either.

I always assumed it was an affectation to make her seem more wizardly.



sistermagpie: * BTW, are we supposed to think Umbridge knew about their meeting and that's why she did the decree? Because that doesn't make sense to me.

I think Willy Widdershins was in the bar disguised as a mummy and reported them in exchange for not being prosecuted for blowing up toilets. McGonagall was really self-righteous about it, too.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>I don't see why Sirius' not having a Dark Mark should make it clear whether he's a Voldemort supporter or not.<

From the vantage point of the end of the series I am finally wondering whether the whole Dark mark was a "cool" idea she didn't even have until she started writing GoF and had already established Sirius Black's development arc.

She *could* get away with Fudge not knowing about it, since he spent the war years in a Dept that didn't *need* to know about it (and Crouch would have kept the information classified), but he does know about it my *now* -- with Snape shoving it under his nose at the end of Book 4. I cannot see any reason why someone didn't try to take advantage of the fact the information had escaped.

Minor thing: given that our only source on Krum's age was Ron, who didn't even know that Krum was still in school, I would take the information that he was 18 with a grain of salt. I think he was probably only 17. Certainly during the summer. Otherwise why would he have still *been* in school once the new term started? (Unless, he had missed a good deal of class time from being off in a game somewhere. That's always possible.)

[savagedamsel10.livejournal.com]

* I'm still not completely on board with Hermione's manipulative gentle reminder that Harry's being able to do all sorts of things that grown wizards can't makes him a good teacher. How do you teach someone to do something that you never had to learn to do yourself? Gary Stu's generally make bad teachers.
I can respect teachers who are more strong on experience than knowledge but I can't feel the same way about Harry. For all that the fandom and JKR talked about him being so great a leader and all he seems kind of piss-weak on many levels. And of course when it was revealed in HBP that it was essentially a vanity project for Harry and not serious business I completely lost respect for him and the DA a bit.

* Just want to remind everyone this tiny world can apparently sustain two practical joke shops but no theater and apparently only one pop music group. Ah, wizarding culture.
Maybe they have a whoopee cushion orchestra. But I also think that the two shops/chains could eventually develop a bitter rivalry or just have a modest success. But because JKR is writing this, this won't happen, especially since I thinking in the view of a rather bitter witness of small business rivalry.

*Hermione shows up all ready with her cursed parchment the first day, and describes it thusly: "We ought to agree not to shout about what we're doing, so if you sign you're agreeing not to tell Umbridge or anybody else what we're up to." Is it wrong that Voldemort is probably more honest to new recruits than she is? They're signing their lives away here for what sounds like a lot less than it really is.
This line has been used and blown out of proportion to completely exonerate Hermione and have her coming out smelling like roses.

*Hermione shows not a moment's hesitation in coaxing or pushing reluctant people to sign a serious oath like this when she knows the curse that's on this thing and, more importantly in her view, she knows the danger of having somebody who isn't loyal.
There was this fantastic fic I read once where it was revealed later on that the Hufflpuffs had actually mispelled their names on the list so they could leave the group and wouldn't be affected by other things after telling the trio off for being elitist snobs and braking the law concerning the making of contracts.

*::sigh:: It would have been great if Harry wound up telling Hagrid or Dumbledore about the thing and got SNEAK himself.
I would love that too. Let's see how HE feels about being branded with the magical equivalent of the Scarlet Letter for life.

[(Anonymous)]

* I know this comes as a shock but I so do not buy this joke about the "real" Ginny. She talked in the last book without running her sassy nails down a blackboard every time she did it.

It's very simple really. Ginny used to be shy and awkward but now she's super tough and assertive and bitchy, actually she was always tough and assertive and bitchy, she only acted shy and sweet around Harry because of her crush on him, which she's totally over. Not.

Of course, half the difficulty is that for some inexplicable reason she's not supposed to have changed at all. That the nice girl in GoF had the potential to become OotP!Ginny is at least slightly more plausible than that she was always like this when Harry wasn't looking. I mean, if a crush could reduce this alleged "forceful personality" to blushes and stammers in the first place, how exactly did she get rid of the problem? Does she have an off switch for social awkwardness? Because I want one of those.

-L

[(Anonymous)]

Harry doesn't even know the names of other Quidditch players? That's impressive.
I think, Harry's outrageous obtuseness is generally due to the simple fact, that JKR didn't realize, her way of telling things to the reader by telling them to Harry won't work forever. I mean, it was practical in PS when the reader and Harry started out on the same plane of ignorance and it still sometimes works later on like with Beedle's tales, because it's conceivable that as a teenager and not-literary geek, Harry hasn't talked about fairy tales with anyone. But like you said - Quidditch players? Ridiculous.

BTW, if I'm not mistaken, this was the chapter that gave us the lovely twins threatening Zacharias Smith for daring to ask questions. After the ferret scene in GoF, this was the second time I felt as if I had walked into a very wrong universe, but comforted myself there were still several books to come and JKR was painting things in shades of grey...