Deathly Hallows Chapter 34

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

The Forest Again

The title of this chapter puzzles me, since Harry hasn’t been to the Forbidden Forest once this book. Sure, he’s been to a lot of other forests, but not to this one. So how is he going to it again? Shouldn’t the title be “Yet Another Bloody Forest”?

In case we got confused by the last chapter and took away the message that Snape’s life was more awful than anyone could have possibly conceived rather than the intended one, JKR recaps it for us. The important part of the chapter was that OMG! HARRY HAS TO DIE!

Neither would live, neither would survive. So, that pretty much makes hash out of the Prophecy. With its very carefully chosen words.

Harry hears his heart beating fiercely, valiantly, and wonders how many more beats it has before it stops forever.

He wonders if it will hurt. But, for all his fierce, valiant will to live, it does not occur to him to disobey—to try to run or escape. Why would it? We know that trying to run from Voldemort buys you one or two years at the most. And that’s if you are good at turning yourself into an armchair.

Harry starts wishing he could have died earlier—so that it would over with by now, I guess. He envies Hedwig her quick death. I think Hedwig might disagree with him about that. I’m sure that given her choice, getting killed while swinging around in a cramped little cage would not be it. I never really thought about it, but what a horrible last few minutes she had!

Or, Harry thinks, it might have been better to die while throwing himself in front of a killing curse meant for someone else. Like Lily did. That was an easy way to go.

Man! Everybody got a better death than Harry! Lily, James, Hedwig… nobody else ever had to die knowing about it beforehand! Nobody had to walk up to Voldemort, completely defenseless, and let the Dark Lord kill him for a greater cause.

Nobody except… Señor Snapo!

Harry reflects that the betrayal by Dumbledore was almost nothing. It was all Harry’s fault; he had been too foolish to question his own right of existence. He was only meant to live as long as it took to eliminate Voldemort’s Horcruxes.

So… when he was a baby, Dumbledore already knew that there were multiple Horcruxes? Or maybe just one? Dumbledore looked at baby Harry and thought to himself, As soon as I figure out where Tom has hidden his real Horcrux, the baby gets it!

Yeah, but Snape was disgusting. Because he wasn’t planning to kill a child. He just didn’t care.

How neat, how elegant Harry thinks, for Dumbledore to assign the task of destroying the Horcruxes to the last one of all!

Good try, JKR. But, no. It’s not neat or elegant. It’s idiotic to assign the task of destroying Horcruxes to a guy who doesn’t have 1) the magical knowledge or skill to detect a Horcrux, and 2) the magical knowledge or skill to destroy one.

I suppose one could call it elegant to trick Voldemort into killing the last bit of his soul by making the person holding it chase down the other soul bits. But I wouldn’t use that word. The phrase I would use is needlessly clever. It’s basically Dumbledore showing off.

Harry decides that Dumbledore knew Harry would choose to die, because Dumbledore had taken the time to understand him. No. First off, Dumbledore (with help from Voldemort) created your suicidal heroism. That’s not understanding, that’s manipulation.

He left you with the most unfriendly Muggles in the world—so that you wouldn’t have any attachments outside of the wizarding world. Then he made Hogwarts the fulfillment of any fantasies you might have had about friends, achievement, and plain old specialness. Then he trained you to become heroic and self-sacrificing (when it came to your health or life).

Moreover… sacrificing yourself so that people you care about will live? Not that big a leap. Yes, there are people who won’t die for others. But every mother in this series would die for her child, and all the people that Harry regrets dying tonight--Fred, Lupin, and Tonks—would have done the same. They did do the same, that’s why they’re dead.

And they didn’t even need to be trained.

Harry then thinks some more about dying and realizes that he messed up by not killing the snake, but Dumbledore was smart enough to know that, too, and that was why Hermione and Ron were allowed to come on his quest. That, and the fact that he wouldn’t have accomplished any of it without them.

He looks at his battered old Fabian watch and sees that he has only half an hour left before Voldemort starts killing everyone else. I guess the Prince’s Tale didn’t last that long after all.

Harry finally stands up, and his heart keeps beating wildly, as though it would like a vote in this whole dying business… isn’t it odd how disconnected Harry is from his organs? He’s great with the limbs and all—with those Seeker reflexes—but when it comes to his heart, or his penis chest monster libido, those are foreign elements.

And goodness knows his brain is like some distant relative that only shows up once a year for a visit.

Hehe. Harry puts on the Invisibility Cloak and walks through the castle, feeling like a ghost. The part that cracks me up is that he’s hoping someone will stop him—but of course, they can’t possibly see him through the most Special Invisibility Cloak in history.

At the entrance, he nearly bumps into Neville and Oliver Wood, who are carrying in the body of Colin Creevey. JKR’s explanation for how Colin, a Muggleborn who would have been kicked out of school, came to be here is that he arrived with the other D.A. members. Take that, continuity hounds!

After having Neville help him carry Colin however far it was, Oliver Wood decides he really didn’t need help. He takes the body up on his shoulders and Neville is therefore free (and alone) for Harry to assign one last task to.

Harry pulls off the Cloak, almost giving Neville a heart attack. When Neville suspiciously asks if Harry is going to give himself up to Voldemort, Harry lies in the most unconvincing way and tells Neville that the big snake Voldemort likes has to be killed.

Just in case Ron and Hermione might be too busy. By being dead or something. Harry reflects that this is how Dumbledore would have done it—there were three people originally on the quest, and, once he’s dead, there will still be three. Ron, Hermione, and Neville taking his place.

Yeah, Harry. This is why Dumbledore is an idiot. If it were me? I would have a hundred people gunning for that snake. Ever watch an army of ants take on something bigger? They may be small, but they win because there are a lot of them.

Hehe. Harry stumbles through the instructions, telling Neville that “Just in case they’re—busy—and you get the chance—“

And Neville cuts right in with, “Kill the snake?”

See. This is why Neville rocks. No emo moments for him. He goes right to what needs to be done. Kill the snake? Right. Got it. Later, Harry. I have to go haul in another ten bodies.

So Harry puts on the Cloak again, and comes upon Ginny leaning over a random girl, who is whispering for her mother. I have to tell you that this moment bugged the hell out of me, because—like everyone else in the world—I hate that characters are killed off, as Guy Fleegman says, “to show that the situation’s serious.”

So, it gave me great satisfaction to have Marietta come and play the part of the girl—complete with a heroic death. She did it for all the red shirts in the world.

“I want to go home” the girl cries. “I don’t want to fight anymore!”

As Ginny comforts her, Harry envies the girl for being able to say that. He wants to be stopped, to go home—

And then he realizes that Hogwarts was his home. His first and best home, just like Voldemort and Snape. Except for Snape it was probably more like a prison.

Snape’s family home was pretty terrible (at least, we can infer that it was), but look what happened to him at Hogwarts! Within a few minutes of getting on the train, he had acquired two enemies who used him as target practice for seven years. The culmination of that was that he was nearly killed, while his tormentors were glorified for their clever pranks. He was allowed two or three years outside of the school, then he bound himself to Dumbledore for the rest of his life. A life filled with frustration and fear. Snape seemed a lot happier in that shabby little library at Spinner’s End.

Harry passes on, and Ginny, because she’s his soul mate senses something and turns to look after him. But the specialness of that moment is eclipsed when Harry passes by Hagrid’s hut and thinks about all the great times eating rock cakes that are now gone forever…

Squirrel!

As Harry enters the forest, he comes into a swarm of Dementors and he falters. Then he realizes that he doesn’t have to walk alone and pulls out the Snitch that Dumbledore left him. He kisses it and says, “I am about to die.”

The Snitch opens and the Resurrection Stone, with its Deathly Hallows symbol appears. The stone is cracked. Now, this is the part that confuses me. Did Voldemort put the Horcrux in the stone or in the ring? The ring was cursed, but the stone was cracked… And neither appears to have been completely destroyed.

Horcrux or not, the stone works when Harry turns it over in his hands three times. Four dead people—neither ghost nor flesh—approach him. They are James, Lily, Sirius, and Remus.

I don’t exactly get why Remus is there with the others. James and Lily were, of course, Harry’s parents and they died for him. Sirius was his Godfather. Remus was merely Harry’s emotionally distant teacher for a year.

Now, if you think of Sirius and Remus as a couple, then it makes more sense.

But if they aren’t, then why not Tonks as well? Why not Moody? Why not Fred? Why not Hedwig?

And why, with all the rest, not Snape?

Okay, Harry and Snape hated each other, so maybe not.

But was Remus really closer to Harry than Fred?

And, what with all the portraits and the ghosts and everything—these James and Lily dead figures don’t seem all that different than the ones who came out of Voldemort’s wand. Except this time, they have a bit more time to talk to Harry. Oh, and this time, instead of trying to save him from Voldemort, they’re happy to have him die.

“I didn’t want you to die,” Harry tells him. “Any of you. I’m sorry—“

I guess this is why Snape showing up would be a bad idea. If he had, the line would have read something like this: “I didn’t want you to die. Any of you. Except Snape. I was fine with that one. “

Harry asks if they can walk with him as he goes to Voldemort and they agree. Sirius assures him that no one else will see them, as they are invisible to everyone but Harry. “We are part of you,” Sirius says.

Interestingly, although invisible to everyone else, the ghosties can see Harry through the Invisibility Cloak. Why is this? I don’t know. Magic. Love. Whatever.

They walk through the forest and the ghosties act like Patroni against the Dementors. Harry doesn’t actually know where Voldemort is, so it’s lucky that he stumbles on Yaxley and Dolohov. They let us know that time is nearly up and then conveniently turn around and head back to Voldemort so that Harry can follow them.

As it turns out, the Death Eaters have set up camp in Aragog’s old lair—still covered in giant cobwebs. The narrator notes that the giant spiders were driven out of the area in order to fight for the Death Eaters. Really? How exactly did that happen? Can Death Eaters control the giant spiders that no one else can? I mean, if you drive a wild animal out of its home, it generally doesn’t start fighting for you. It generally starts fighting to get you out.

But never mind. The Death Eaters are all standing around a flickering fire. Just like in every Death Eater fic ever written. Fenrir’s there, which means I ought to go back and change that DVD extra so that Ginny doesn’t kill him. Lucius is there, looking terrified. Check. Narcissa merely look apprehensive. I guess that makes her better than him. I’ll bet the Hat sorted her too soon. There are also two giants, sitting down by still towering over everyone else. Nice image. Still doesn’t justify the camping trip in OotP.

I like the description of Voldemort standing still with his hands folded over the Elder Wand. It makes him seem like a statue of a saint. Strange, perverted religious imagery. Especially since the cage with Nagini in it is floating right behind his head. JKR even describes it as looking like a “monstrous halo.”

Also, Voldemort is described as either praying or counting in his head—Harry’s not sure which. But either, the irrationality of praying or the super-rationality of counting, is apparently evil at this moment.

Voldemort admits that he was mistaken to think Harry would arrive, but Harry calls out to let him know he wasn’t, and steps into the light. The Death Eaters, like any good evil chorus, immediately start making “rabble-rabble” noises.

Hagrid’s voice cuts above the Death Eaters. Harry sees that he has been tied to a nearby tree. I hope it was Grawp who did it.

Hagrid is silenced by someone, and the only other person of note is Bellatrix, who has jumped up and now stands watching Harry and Voldemort like they’re the Williams sisters and this is Wimbleton. Her breast is heaving and I find that incredibly annoying. Good God, woman. Can’t you stop imitating a romance novel cover for a single moment? I swear, this part was written for Helena Bonham Carter.

Hehe. And Bellatrix, at her breast-heaving, open-mouthed panting, blazing-eyed worst reminds Harry of Ginny. Can you imagine? Every time Harry ever has sex with Ginny, he’s going to think of Bellatrix. Wow.

You know, if Harry had become the new Dark Lord, then this would have been Ginny. Except that Ginny, having Hermione to advise her, had dated other boys to make Harry jealous and thus excited his interest. Poor Bellatrix never got that hint, and so Voldemort barely ever looks at her no matter how much she simulates orgasm just from being in his presence.

Is just coincidence or is it another subtle dick joke when Harry thinks about the feel of Ginny’s lips on his… and Voldmort raises his wand? Perhaps this is a moment when Harry and Voldemort’s truly souls become one.

Or maybe it’s just a way to draw out the moment a little longer. Because time does seem to slow down as much as possible before Voldemort casts the inevitable killing curse. Harry sees a flash of green light, and the screen goes black.

*****

I’ve ragged as much as I can about this chapter. That’s my purpose, but I must admit that it is the best chapter in the book. It’s well written, well-paced, and, even though we know exactly what’s going to happen, there’s still tension and suspense.

Well done, JKR. I just wish that more of the chapters had been this good. And, you know, that the plot had been less stupid.

Fan Service:
Remus and Sirius together again!
James and Lily live! Sort of!
Harry dies!

Fan Slappage:
Two giants. That’s it? Where are the Inferi? The werewolves?

DVD Extras:

INT: A CLASSROOM AT HOGWARTS

The room is fairly crowded with people sitting at desks and filling in forms. Marietta Edgecombe and Colin Creevey wander in exchanging puzzled glances with each other.

A young woman with red hair approaches them. It is Lily Potter. She carries a clipboard.

LILY
Hello. Welcome to the afterlife. Please take a seat and fill in this form.

She hands each of them a piece of paper. Marietta takes one, bewildered.

MARIETTA
What’s this for?

LILY
We have to determine where you’re going to go.

Fred Weasley wanders up, his form in his hand.

FRED
Excuse me? What does this mean? “Going On”?

LILY
You have a choice, you see. Most people prefer to go on to the after life. Like it’s a new adventure.

FRED
So, what does “Wait” mean?

LILY
Some like to wait around for their loved ones to join them. I’d be careful about that one. It tends to mean doing administrative work.

She sighs and taps her clipboard.

MARIETTA
(peering at her form)
What is “Ghost”?

LILY
Oh, that’s an option where you take on the form of a ghost. Some people choose that. Cowards, mostly.

MARIETTA
I don’t know. There’s a certain person I could see haunting…

COLIN
“Portrait”?

LILY
That’s only open if you’ve had your portrait painted. Then you get to hang out and tell people what to do.

FRED
You know, the afterlife is not at all what I expected it to be.

LILY
Oh? What did you expect?

COLIN
More famous people.

MARIETTA
Less paperwork.

FRED
More fireworks.

LILY
Well, I guess we can’t always get what we want, can we?

Remus Lupin appears in the doorway, looking around curiously.

LUPIN
Lily Potter?

A joyous cry comes from the back of the room:

SIRIUS
Remus!

He comes loping up, looking young and fit. Lupin stares at him.

LUPIN
Sirius? What are you doing here?

SIRIUS
I came to greet you!

They hug and kiss.

TONKS
(disgusted)
Oh my God. I knew it.

She appears behind them, framed in the doorway.

TONKS (cont’d)
It was him all the time!

LUPIN
Yes.

LILY
(gaping at Sirius)
I thought you were straight.

SIRIUS
(proudly)
Camouflage, baby. Just more reason I couldn’t stand my family.

James Pottter appears from a door in the back.

JAMES
Lily! Sirius! Come on. It’s time.

LILY
Already? (She sighs and puts her clipboard down.) Fill out that form. I’ll be back in a few minutes.

JAMES
Lupin, you too.

The four of them join hands and Disapparate.

Marietta hands a form to Tonks, and the four of them move towards empty desks.

FRED
(starting) Merlin’s pants!

He picks something up from the floor.

COLIN
What is it?

FRED
(looking ill) It’s my brother’s ear.

FADE OUT

Comments

[soldurios.livejournal.com]

Two things: An LJ cut would be awesome and Snape didn't know he was going to die. Nor did he go into death willingly.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Thanks. I just fixed the non-cut thing.

As for Snape, I think he had to know that every time he saw Voldemort there was a good chance he'd be caught out and killed. And, although he instinctively raised his wand, he died without defending himself.

[soldurios.livejournal.com]

He still didn't know he was going to die. He certainly didn't walk into the shack knowing it. He went because, well, Voldie would certainly kill him if he disobeyed. Snape would've died if he'd been caught, sure. But Snape wasn't caught and still died, thus it kinda took him by surprise.

As for attacking, there wasn't any time. Snape couldn't do anything against Nagini due to the bubble around her. Was he really going to attack Voldemort? It'd be pointless and pathetic at best. A dying man's last flail. The only way he could say his "Fuck you" to Voldemort was to give Harry those memories. And he did so, without knowing what the hell they were for, only what Dumbledore wanted from him.

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Er... LJ cut?

Yes this *was* probably the most engaging chapter in the book. And it's another mark of "Fail" that we had to wait this long for it. Although, really, given the context there wasn't anywhere else to put it. We *had* to wait for it.

But, you are absolutely right, this chapter has all the emotional authenticy anyone could ask for. Unfortunately it completely shreds any attempt at sense or rationality, and what it *appears* to be, isn't what it actually is. This is the chapter where the whole world grieves for Rowling's mother.

I honestly don't begrudge that. Losing a parent is a horrible wrench, it's no shame to empathise, and about the only thing it isn't is unique. That's the point. Insofar as there is a point.

At the same time, it's very difficult to try to get hold of anything that doesn't crumble away at a touch when you are moving in a dreamscape. Rowling completely threw any attempt at logic or continuity in this chapter. It *is* effectively a dream sequence. And a far more successful one than then one that follows it.

And insofar as the issues that Rowling raises by attempting to inject profundities into Potter's stream-of-consiousness; yeah, did Albus already know there were multiple Horcruxes when he first looked at Harry's scar? Sure didn't seem like it when we watched him leave Harry on the Dursley's doorstep. But neither did it seem like there was any surprise expressed that Harry had that scar. My mind is skittering back to the most relevant irrelevance of the first half of the series about now and wondering all over again about that bloody "missing" 24 hours. Had he already got a look at the kid and had a chance to examine that scar? He certainly talks as if he had any time the subject comes up later, but it sure didn't look like it from what Rowling showed us.

And as for Colin Creevy; Rowling's explanation only contradicts her own story. We distinctly heard Minerva chivvying a Creevy out of the castle during the evacuation, so there was no need for him to sneak in with the DA. He was already there, and as a sixth year in May may have already turned 17 and had every right to be there. *I* say that Rowling simply forgot that the Creevy's were supposed to be muggleborn and we just need to retrofit them as halfbloods (and it was Dennis that Minerva was forcing to leave the building).

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

>I hated the ghosts telling Harry to die. And of course he died, once again, doing nothing and just giving himself up.<

And it's taken 7 long books to get him to the point that he would do it.

And, really, when you take a closer look, for the past few books whenever Harry *did* try to accomplish anything it only made things worse for someone else. That was certainly the case in *this* book. And indeed that can be said for OotP and HBP as well. You *could* even apply it to GoF, but he was being forced to compete in that one, not told to stay out of things. The last time Harry did anything on his own, that was really *effective* was in PoA, and before that, CoS. (He meddled in PS/SS and only made things worse.)

[oryx_leucoryx]

You know, I think I know what he was going to do with the wand: Send a Patronus to Harry with Dumbledore's last message. The only conceivable way he had to complete his mission.

[soldurios.livejournal.com]

With what wand?

[oryx_leucoryx]

The one he was holding and raising.

[soldurios.livejournal.com]

Perhaps. It would've made a lot more sense than him friggin' attacking the Dark Lord.

Though if this occurred before his death, I've no idea what you're on about. I don't have the book open in front of me and the first and last time I read it was on someone's floor.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

I suppose it's quite possible that Harry simply forgot which brother was which. I mean, with his thing about not recognizing people outside his immediate circle of friends. :)

But it really can work the why JKR says. Some of the D.A. showed up before Harry went to Ravenclaw tower. Colin might have one of them--even though Harry doesn't recognize him.

Still, you're right that Colin would likely be 17 by the same of the battle. And Minerva wouldn't be his teacher if he had been forced to leave earlier. And he was sitting with the Gryffindors, which strongly implies that he was a student and not someone who showed up in the room.

[ellecain.livejournal.com]

I hated the ghosts telling Harry to die. And of course he died, once again, doing nothing and just giving himself up

Did anyone get a weird suicide-bomber vibe from this part?

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Harry asked Dumbledore for permission to tell Hermione and Ron back in HBP, when he was attending special lessons. Dumbledore agreed to bring them into the secret, since they had proven their loyalty. (I guess none of the Order adults had done that?)

And the gifts Dumbledore left to Hermione and Ron in his will imply that he's expecting them to go along with Harry on the quest.

If the point of having Horcrux!Harry hunt down the Horcruxes is that Voldemort would be reluctant to kill off a piece of his soul, then it would make sense to let Voldemort know about it. Which would be easy, since Dumbledore only had to let Snape know to tell him.

But I'm sure Dumbledore was concerned that if Voldemort about the soul bit, he'd use it to possess Harry (regardless of the pain) and make him all evil or something.

[oryx_leucoryx]

In contrast to most readers, this was one of the most annoying chapters for me to read the first time around. By the time I got there I was so sick of Harry my mind was just yelling 'OK, die already, who cares about you?'

Man! Everybody got a better death than Harry!
Reinforcing what I said above.

So… when he was a baby, Dumbledore already knew that there were multiple Horcruxes? Or maybe just one? Dumbledore looked at baby Harry and thought to himself, As soon as I figure out where Tom has hidden his real Horcrux, the baby gets it!

Since Albus did nothing to search for any Horcrux, I think he figured Harry was the one. He was just waiting for circumstances to be such that Harry's death would be perceived as noble sacrifice rather than cruelty or negligence by Albus. Even after the diary, supposedly a disposable weapon-Horcrux, Albus didn't seek the 'other' one. I guess it looked like the prophecy coming true - diaryTom died by Harry's hand, all that was left was for Harry to die by Tom's hand.

Harry decides that Dumbledore knew Harry would choose to die, because Dumbledore had taken the time to understand him. No. First off, Dumbledore (with help from Voldemort) created your suicidal heroism. That’s not understanding, that’s manipulation.


Exactly.

Agreeing with you about Albus' overly clever stupidity.

And then he realizes that Hogwarts was his home. His first and best home, just like Voldemort and Snape. Except for Snape it was probably more like a prison.

Yes.

The figures from the stone - those were the people who have the power to make Harry want to die, those he would want to join. And perhaps Remus is here to correct the error of holding Harry to prevent him from running through the veil after Sirius died. As for Severus - he is probably the only dead one who would have preferred for Harry to keep living rather than join him.

Is just coincidence or is it another subtle dick joke when Harry thinks about the feel of Ginny’s lips on his… and Voldmort raises his wand? Perhaps this is a moment when Harry and Voldemort’s truly souls become one.


Loved this. As well as Bellatrix's heaving chest and her reminding harry of Ginny.

And loved the DVD extra. So Lily has been handing out forms for 16.5 years until Harry was about to show up? And Fred will be waiting with George's ear for the rest of George?

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

By this point, it takes a bit of a lurch to remember that it was still very easy, going in to this book, to believe that Harry being a Horcrux somehow equipped him with some necessary quality that would enable him to destroy the other Horcruxes.

I cannot make up my mind as to whether Rowling might have originally intended it that way or not. It is possible that she might have, but the notion of Ron having "earned" the right to destroy the Locket by pulling Harry (and the sword) out of the pond evidently had just too much "dramatic appeal". And once she had broken the "rules" that way she couldn't make Harry able to destroy Horcruxes because he was one, and went overboard in the other direction, by not letting him do anything toward wrecking any of the rest of them. *Finding* them, yes, but destroying them, not a chance.

Which really ended up undermining the whole point of sending Harry after them in the first place.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The 'best' reason for Dumbledore to send Harry after the Horcruxes was his understanding that Harry was protected from death (completely? no matter how he was about to die?) as long as Tom was in his Harry-derived body. Of course nobody who joined him had that kind of protection. So why not send a bigger crew, to make sure *someone* survived with Harry? And why not train Harry better? At the very least Dumbledore should have taught Harry how to destroy a Horcrux and give him a list of places Dumbledore had already searched and ruled out. (And why not mention that Rowena Ravenclaw had that diadem, though it is thought to have been long lost?)

So perhaps Dumbles left those books out, unprotected from whatever security means have so far kept people from summoning his property away, with the intent of getting Severus to deliver them to the kids. But really, all he needed to do was schedule one more lesson with Harry sometime in May.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

Loved this. As well as Bellatrix's heaving chest and her reminding harry of Ginny.

It's weird what you pick up on a second reading. I hadn't reread this chapter until I started working on the spork--didn't quite see the point. When other people pointed out the Bellatrix/Ginny connection, I thought they were exaggerating!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Had he already got a look at the kid and had a chance to examine that scar?

Hagrid talks as if this was the first chance Dumbledore has to see either of them, but Hagrid wasn't with Harry the entire time - at some point he went to chat with Minerva to tell her about his very secret and responsible assignment. So Dumbledore could ahve used this time to examine Harry. And (later?) consult his silver instruments.

[montavilla.livejournal.com]

He wasn't even that good at finding them. As I noted earlier, the way to find the Horcruxes wasn't about knowing Voldemort, it was good old fashioned detective work. The Cup wasn't in Bellatrix's vault because of some deep psychological urge (no matter what Harry said retroactively), it was in the vault because Voldemort needed it in a safe place, and Bellatrix had one.

But if Harry had been good at detecting Horcruxes (and that had been set up earlier--the way it sort is happening in the movies), then it would make sense for him to given the task.

He does get a weird feeling about the locket, but so does everyone else.

[oryx_leucoryx]

OK, perhaps Dumbledore predicted that at some point Voldemort's frustration at his inability to kill Harry would reopen the connection between them, so that Voldemort could lead harry to the Horcruxes.

[violaswamp.livejournal.com]

More like an attempt at a Christ-figure. Harry is not trying to kill anyone directly through his death, unlike a suicide-bomber.

However, his death and resurrection essentially serves the purpose of enabling him to come back and kill the bad guy, so...not so Christ-like there. But I think that's what Rowling was going for.

Snape's "death"

[mary-j-59.livejournal.com]

No, Severus did not go to his death willingly - but Harry didn't want to die, either, did he? When he knows what Voldemort intends, Severus raises his wand briefly, then lowers it. Still more to the point, as he is lying bleeding, he's trying to stanch his wound. When Harry approaches (I will never understand why - it seems very contrived) and gormlessly kneels in the man's blood, Severus stops trying to stanch the wound and reaches out to Harry. That is a choice. So is lowering his wand. I'd say it was a more meaningful choice than the one Harry makes, because he is reaching out to another human being, not just communing with ghosts.

Of course, I think Snape's not dead. No portrait, no funeral, no body - no death. But, if you insist he is dead, then I think it was his sacrifice, not Harry's, that conferred protection on the defenders of the castle.

And he never "abandoned his post", either. So there, Rowling! Sorry, but I feel very strongly about this.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

And goodness knows his brain is like some distant relative that only shows up once a year for a visit.

It's even more distant than that - like my late Aunt Issy, Harry's brain only shows up once every two decades.

Guy Fleegman

Yay Guy!

Harry passes on...

Wishful thinking in the words there much?

Squirrel!

Yup.

Interestingly, although invisible to everyone else, the ghosties can see Harry through the Invisibility Cloak. Why is this?

Because he fell asleep watching Snape's memories and never made the Death March in Canon Life? Because this is the beginning of his descent into madness culminating with the exchange with "Dumbledore" at "King's Cross?" Because this is what Snape Legillimensed into his brain when he looked into Harry's eyes before taking a powder out of the WW and the books?

Fenrir’s there, which means I ought to go back and change that DVD extra so that Ginny doesn’t kill him.

See above.

Strange, perverted religious imagery.

I'm all for that.

Where are the Inferi? The werewolves?

The werewolves are here (http://blogs.dixcdn.com/shine_a_light/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/dogs_playing_poker.jpg). The Inferi went on the beer run.

Love the DVD extras!

[oryx_leucoryx]

Interestingly, although invisible to everyone else, the ghosties can see Harry through the Invisibility Cloak. Why is this?


I forgot to comment on that one: Must have something to do with both the stone and the cloak being Hallows. Since the ghosts come from beyond death they get to see where even Death can't. Or something.

Re: Snape's "death"

[jodel-from-aol.livejournal.com]

Well it would certainly make more sense for the sacrifice of a Headmaster sworn to protect the students to convey at least a limited protection on the people defending his school, than that the sacrifice of a random dropout who hasn't been back for a year would.

And there is nothing but Harry's egotism to say otherwise. Tom didn't try to *attack* anyone on the school grounds until after he had murdered both Snape *and* Harry, did he?

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

I'm with oryx on this one. This chapter was one big "Oh, come on!" experience for me. I hated that Potter marched loyally to his death, abandoning everyone who looked to him for inspiration. I hated that "others don't have to stand in for you, Potter" was a pretext, because who can trust Voldemort to keep his word to stop the killing? I hated the ghouls cheering Potter on, telling him he was so brave to, essentially, throw in the towel. I even hated ineffectual Ginny (in character for this book), beaten-down Lucius, and OH NOES! HARRY! Hagrid.

The morality of the books went seriously off the rails... well, volumes ago, but this was the chapter that confirmed it. Harry's death was suicide plain and simple, with the not-quite faith but hope that Dumbledore was right and Voldemort would be a little more vulnerable, with no thought for what would happen until Nagini was killed.

Then there was the Potter isolation so profound only the dead could share it. Other martyrs commanded or taught. Even those who died espousing non-violence preached to millions. Organizing with others is where it's at, not simply giving up. People become visible targets because they act, not just because the Prophecy said so. Effective martyrs die for a cause, not just because some old guy said so. What cause did Potter have -- kill Voldemort? What use is that, when another Dark Lord is sure to arise within a generation or so?

To accomplish the "kill Voldemort" task, Potter sat complaining in a forest for most of the book, bungled a few expeditions, Crucio'd and Imperiused his way out of things, actually did watch others suffer and die, took an automaton's walk in the forest with the young and unshabby dead, then stood there like a lump of coal waiting to be killed. Even Christ protested aloud at some point, but not Potter, he was just that deplete of intelligence, he was just that insensate. All he could do was lie to Neville about his plan to give up.

I agree with those who say that if there's any message at all, it nothing but a suicide bomber's belief that one's life is expendable if it hastens the demise of the enemy. Oh, and don't question the orders of your white-bearded leader. And, your family is cheering you on in your death march.

The best part of this chapter was the Death Eaters' disappointment that Potter hadn't shown up. It was almost like Potter dissed Voldemort's birthday party and crushed his feelings. I wonder if Voldie regretted killing Snape when he thought Potter wouldn't show. Not that anyone gave much thought to Snape.

Speaking of which, I would love to read your take of Lily presenting Snape with a form in the afterlife, if it avoided the woobieness that dogs Snape post-DH.