PoA Chapter Six

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

The first thing Harry notices the next day is that Draco Malfoy is doing impressions of him fainting to laughing crowds. I know this joke will soon get old and people will stop laughing? But I can’t believe they’re even laughing at it now. Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting, or wizards have been seriously warped without TV, literature or theater. What teenagers would find this funny?

I mean, as much as I hate to defend HBP!Ginny, her impression of Harry falling off his broom at least had a context to explain why it was funny. The joke was that Harry was bellowing at people when he got socked in the head with a metal ball that should have killed him. Nobody saw Harry faint and there was nothing funny going on at the time.

Pansy Parkinson has a face like a pug. And totally deserves it.

Harry consoles himself with the fact that the only time he and Malfoy faced each other at Quidditch, Malfoy definitely came off the worst. I’ll bet he feels even better when he remembers that the same is true for just about anybody stupid enough to play Quidditch with Harry.

How was McGonagall expecting Hermione to keep this secret about the Time Turner, btw? Even if she doesn’t really have any friends besides Harry and Ron, it’s not like she doesn’t make herself noticeable in class. Don’t tell me that not once during the year did two students not complain about her in conflicting classes to each other and figure it out.

My canon is now that the whole school except Harry and Ron knew that Hermione was using a Time Turner. Several of them even stole it a few times to do something fun.

Oh god, here comes Hagrid swinging a dead polecat. Because he only likes giant predators.

On their way to Divination they pass a painting that’s kind of a Don Quixote rip-off.

I don’t care what anyone says. I like the way Trelawney decorates her room.

The fog in the room makes Harry feel sleepy and stupid. Which might be the most self-aware Harry has ever been.

Harry predicts Ron might work for the MoM. He could be right. Maybe Ron’s just got 3 jobs instead of the 2 he gets in post-DH interviews.

Once again Hermione randomly decides that something is illogical while accepting that she can turn a frog into a teacup by waving a stick over it. And naturally she’s kind of right.

Or not. If Trelawney's seeing a big, black dog in Harry’s tealeaves, she’s right. And in HBP she was batting something like .397.

McGonagall then announces that Trelawney’s an idiot and Divination is worthless. Harry Potter: So awesome he makes useless subjects true!

Seriously, all Trelawney's true predictions center around Harry. Which I guess validates the centaurs views as well.

McGonagall also says Trelawney predicts a student’s death every year. Ron must be silently resenting why she had to pick Harry this year, stealing what he’d think was his one chance to be the center of interest.

I do like the implication that Hermione really does dislike Divination because she can’t be good at it, but since it really does seem to be a crock, I can’t like it that much. It seems to basically just be a class for poseurs who like putting on an act.

Ron and Hermione aren’t speaking to each other now. I'm sure the crazy hot make-up sex is the heart of their marriage.

Oh god, give me a second to gird my loins for Hagrid’s dumb class.

If you’re waiting for any parallel to be drawn between Draco’s attitude towards Hagrid and Hermione’s attitude towards Trelawney, stop. They’re exact opposites, because Hagrid’s a noble drunk and Trelawney’s a useless drunk. Or something. Also Hagrid’s a half-giant and Malfoy’s a jerk.

Yup, Malfoy’s a total jerk, even calling into question Hagrid’s being qualified to teach class.

Hagrid leads up the animals and introduces them by saying the first thing to know about ‘em is that they’re proud, so don’t insult one or it’s the last thing you’ll do. Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle are whispering in an undertone, the same way Harry and Hermione and Ron have done a dozen times before. Only it’s totally different to do it in this class, so what happens is totally their fault.

I have to go off on this here, because in the past I’ve gotten in tons of long, detailed lectures on how peoples’ riding instructors gave speeches on how dangerous horses were where they made sure everyone was paying attention, and made everyone show they knew the rules, and watched everyone carefully and if they did anything wrong they made them sit out for the day. Only it’s given as an explanation for how Malfoy is wrong here, as if that’s not exactly what Hagrid doesn’t do, and his whole schtick isn’t not getting how dangerous animals are so treating them as if they’re not.

Hagrid’s class isn’t really going over well, so Harry has to step in to back him up. I guess to repay Hagrid for all those times he almost got Harry killed or got Harry in trouble and felt no responsibility for it.

For all the stuff about hippogriffs being proud, apparently they’re okay with Hagrid dumping a kid on their back and slapping them on the ass. I guess since it’s Harry it’s a compliment.

Harry has a big ride full of wonder, proving that if you’re a Gryffindor all animals are glorified taxi services.

Now that Hagrid’s demonstrated proper behavior by treating the hippogriff really carelessly, he sends all the kids into the paddock en masse. What would he have done if they’d all had a chance to take off?

Luckily Malfoy calls Buckbeak a “big ugly brute” (much the way one would probably speak to a beloved pit bull) and the thing rips a big gash in his arm, probably heading off a greater catastrophe. Neville was inches from a meltdown with his own animal.

The Slytherins yell about Hagrid being sacked, proving they suck. These are the type of people who would complain about their kid being petrified in school instead of seeing it as character-building. Probably like child proof medicine caps as well.

The Gryffindors, with Malfoy’s blood still wet on the grass, say it was his fault. Okay yeah, obviously the thing was reacting to Malfoy insulting it like he wasn’t supposed to, but could their little black hearts be smaller or stingier? It’s not even like Malfoy gets sympathy until his dad calls for the animal to be put down (since nobody actually cares about the animal besides Hagrid anyway). They immediately blame the victim.

Harry’s had far worse injuries healed by the nurse. All Harry’s injuries are worse, really, because Slytherin injuries don’t count. You have to have a soul to feel.

“Trust Malfoy to mess things up for [Hagrid],” says Ron, which would be okay if that didn’t seem to be the official reading of the scene. To review: the dozen things Hagrid did to create an obviously crazy unsafe environment for 13-year-olds and wild animals are mistakes any new teacher would make. Malfoy’s mild snottiness and acting like a 13-year-old is unforgivable, indicative of his evil nature and deserving of severe punishment.

In fact, obviously he planned to be attacked to hurt Hagrid. Just like he’ll intentionally force Harry to attack in OotP. Buckbeak and Harry are the real victims here. Draco’s just a master of making people hurt him.

Back at dinner, Harry thinks the Slytherins are cooking up their own version of how Malfoy got injured. Which must be where the whole “Malfoy lied” story always comes up, but I don’t see why Malfoy has to lie (even if he’s malingering, the injury speaks for itself so they can check it).

Note we never exactly hear this “Slytherin version” yet there’s always this vague implication that it’s ruining everything for poor Hagrid. Even though the attack had a dozen witnesses, one of whom was Harry Potter, and pensieves exist.

Hagrid deals with the challenge by drinking—-all the more reason his teaching job should be protected apparently.

Why is it that weakness is so often treated with total contempt while Hagrid sits crying in his beer and blaming his troubles on other people and still sits in the center of the inner circle? I think it’s because Hagrid’s like a pet or a baby so has special license to be pathetic.

Naturally the Trio’s all ready to back Hagrid up. It’s Malfoy’s fault he wasn’t listening. Just like it was Ron’s fault for getting bitten by Hagrid’s dragon. And every student’s fault they didn’t know to stroke their books.

The only reason I can even read this annoying chapter again is that at least I know JKR wrote Hagrid as an unpopular teacher that even the Trio eventually admit is terrible.

Also, weird as it sounds, Malfoy spends the rest of his school career listening very carefully in CoMC. Which I’m sure is a sign of cowardice? But is actually one of the book’s only examples of someone learning something from a mistake!

To review, since obviously this scene bugs me, I don’t have a problem with Malfoy getting a lesson in what happens when you don’t listen in class, or when you dick around with wild animals. (Even if what he did couldn’t actually be considered dicking around in any real sense of the word.) But the way Hagrid immediately gets turned into this innocent victim we’re supposed to rally around so he never has to learn anything drives me nuts. And then people wonder why there are fans who think Slytherins might as well be jackasses since the only time the heroes aren’t happy to watch them die is when they see a chance to dramatically rescue them for their own egos.

Things happening twice:

Ron points out Hermione is scheduled for 3 classes at once. Later she and Harry will be in two places at once.
McGonagall mentions Animagi and turns into one, just like Sirius will. Also transformation turns Lupin into a wolf and Peter into a rat.
Ron has a Great Uncle Bilius and that turns out to be his middle name.
Draco’s attitude in Hagrid’s class, though condemned, is pretty parallel with Hermione’s at Divination.
Harry rides the hippogriff, because he’s going to have to do that again later.
Buckbeak’s slashing will be totally outdone by Harry’s own slashing of Malfoy in HBP.
Also in sixth year Draco will again wind up in a pool of his own blood due to a combination of his own behavior and a Gryffindor’s actions, and again the Slytherins will be seen as making Harry’s life hard by caring.
We meet Sir Cadogan here because he’s going to fill in for the Fat Lady later.
Harry barely listens in Transformation and Malfoy barely listens in CoMC, but everyone knows the first is normal and the second is idiotic because WILD ANIMALS!

It’s a gun. No it isn’t! It’s Chekov! No it isn’t!.
Trelawney’s prediction to Parvati
Beware a red-haired man!
Status: Dud. If only it had been Lavender!
McGonagall’s lesson
Status: 20 gun salute. Harry barely listens to McGonagall telling them that Animagi are wizards who can transform into animals, and barely watches her demonstration as she does it herself, because it’s going to be really important.




Designated Hero
We can tell they’re the good guys because they have no compassion for kids whose injuries either benefit, amuse, bore or cause problems for them and their friends while the compassion they show to innocents is lovingly highlighted.

IITS
How come Divination is arbitrarily the one kind of magic that doesn’t really work? It’s in the script.

"Watermelon, watermelon, cantaloupe, cantaloupe"
I’m sure there were a lot of angry watermelons and cantaloupes coming from the Slytherins in that last scene.

Jabootu Score: 3

Comments

part 1

[oryx_leucoryx]

Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting

Yes, there was. The Slytherins were described as being entertained by a very funny story before the impression of fainting. There was some kind of commentary that already put them in the mood to laugh.

Don’t tell me that not once during the year did two students not complain about her in conflicting classes to each other and figure it out.

No other Gryffindor takes any of the overlapping classes though, and it seems the classes are arranged to overlap either Divination or Charms - which the Gryffindors supposedly take on their own (let's not worry about how Flitwick manages it. Maybe the other 3 Houses have Charms together). But the Patils should have noticed - I bet some Ravenclaws take Arithmancy and/or Ancient Runes, so Padma should know Hermione is in those classes while Parvati knows Hermione is in some overlapping class with the other Gryffindors.

Harry predicts Ron might work for the MoM. He could be right. Maybe Ron’s just got 3 jobs instead of the 2 he gets in post-DH interviews.

The Aurors' Office is part of the Ministry. But this is Ron's prediction for Harry. The same image can also be interpreted as 'a windfall, unexpected gold' - the Triwizard prize? His inheritance from Sirius? Since the predictions don't have a time limit, sometimes it's just a matter of waiting long enough, making them next to useless. Especially the death predictions - even the Flamels (and Voldemort) died eventually.

None of Trelawney's students since 1980 died yet? I wonder if a few years earlier Cedric was her designated victim. Or if Colin was the one the following year. Sadly we can't know.

Status of predictions made this chapter:

- Gran's health? Unknown. (What is the significance that Neville answers 'tremulously'? Does he fear Trelawney? Does mention of Gran bring up fear of her? Does Neville fear *for* Gran?)
- 'Beware a red-headed man' - was this a confusion with Lavender (HBP) or Padma (Yule Ball)? Maybe Trelawney predicted Fred would lose an ear and George would die.
- bout of flu in February? unknown.
- a student leaving forever around Easter? Yes.
- Lavender's fear coming true on October 16th - while the rabbit died earlier the news came that day. Do we fear events or learning of them?
- Neville breaking 2 cups? Yes.
- Ron will have trials and suffering, but also great happiness. Well, at some point.
- Harry will work for the Ministry? Yes, if he is an Auror.
- Harry will win unexpected gold? Yes.
- Harry has a deadly enemy? Yes.
- Harry will be attacked? Yes.
- Danger lies in Harry's path? Yes.
- Harry will die? Well, I suppose he will at some point. But the sign was true, only misinterpreted - he will meet that dog.

Many of the predictions are too vague or open-ended to be useful and many could have been arrived at by familiarity with the subjects and what Pratchett's witches call 'headology'. Anything unhappy that took place on October 16th could be taken as the fulfillment of the prediction. So Divination might be a 'real' form of magic in the Potterverse but the interpretation of the signs has to be done carefully.

BTW Lavender wasn't alarmed by the mention of the Grim, yet in DH she attended school. Does this mean she comes from a Divination-skeptical family or one that is ignorant of this art?

part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hagrid leads up the animals and introduces them by saying the first thing to know about ‘em is that they’re proud, so don’t insult one or it’s the last thing you’ll do. Malfoy, Crabbe and Goyle are whispering in an undertone, the same way Harry and Hermione and Ron have done a dozen times before. Only it’s totally different to do it in this class, so what happens is totally their fault.

And if anyone gets bitten by the textbook because s/he didn't know s/he was supposed to stroke it first, it's hir fault too.

Harry assumes Draco et al are plotting to disrupt the class - because that's what he and Ron did in Potions the previous year with that firecracker in Goyle's cauldron? Getting injured because you are not listening - evil. Causing injury to others because you are deliberately doing something dangerous and against the instructions - hilarious. And saintly, if done for 'the greater good'.

Harry has a big ride full of wonder, proving that if you’re a Gryffindor all animals are glorified taxi services.

Hey, I thought you were reading! That's the movie version. The book version is more modest.

I like seeing Pansy running after Hagrid, who is carrying Draco. She really did care for him.

Even though the attack had a dozen witnesses, one of whom was Harry Potter, and pensieves exist.

Rowling doesn't even have the excuse that she hadn't yet thought of Pensieves at this point of her writing. Tom's diary was already a memory one could explore outside the viewpoint of the person from whom it was taken.

Harry barely listens in Transformation and Malfoy barely listens in CoMC, but everyone knows the first is normal and the second is idiotic because WILD ANIMALS!

And in COS Ron said "D'you think we've got nothing better to do in Potions than listen to Snape?"

How come Divination is arbitrarily the one kind of magic that doesn’t really work? It’s in the script.

I think it does work in the Potterverse, but one needs to apply a lot of critical thinking in the interpretation - filter out the useless stuff or only take seriously predictions that are very specific and be open to all possible interpretations. Which may mean that only after the fact one can understand what a prediction was about. If so the prediction was true but not useful. (But then, most of the time Transfiguration isn't that useful either.)

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I feel so short!

Oh god, here comes Hagrid swinging a dead polecat.

No wonder the chapter stinks of Le Peu - it's Pepe's dead relation!

(even if he’s malingering, the injury speaks for itself so they can check it)

Not only does it speak, it posts bills (on Post-No-Bills walls - it's Slytherin, they're bad like that) telling about it.

Re: part 1

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

So Divination might be a 'real' form of magic in the Potterverse but the interpretation of the signs has to be done carefully

*** No difference to Muggle divination, then.

The Hogwarts curriculum is one of JKR's "it's funny, I'll use it" that works fine for a children's book but becomes weird when the series cross into YA-territory. Tea-leaves and chrystal balls is a "witchy" thing to do, but when you think seriously, what use have people with real magic for it? Are there a booming industry in astrology and Feng Shui in the wizworld as well as the Muggle one?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

While I guess I was vaguely aware of the hypocrisy evident in the early days of the series - friends of Harry GOOD, Slytherins BAD - I didn't ponder overly about it. The early books were clearly in the 'simplistic' mould of children's books, where such things are exaggerated or accepted. PoA was starting to grow up a little, though.

Is a reason ever given for Hagrid being promoted from grounds keeper to 'professor'?

(And is it a truth that (simple) high school teachers are accorded the title 'professor' in the UK? I've always thought that was a bit pretentious. Certainly when reading the 'Harry becomes a DADA teacher while still a student' fan fiction stories.)

I mean, as much as I hate to defend HBP!Ginny --

As well you should --

-- her impression of Harry falling off his broom at least had a context to explain why it was funny.

Like oryx_leucoryx has said, Draco's miming of a person fainting seems to be the punch line of a 'funny story'. But yeah, it seems no worse than the brutish humour which the two-year-older Ginny employed in the sixth book, and which had Harry and Hermione often grinning or laughing. Harry laughed at/with Ginny, so GINNY GOOD. Harry doesn't like Draco, so DRACO BAD.

Re: part 1

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Are there a booming industry in astrology and Feng Shui in the wizworld as well as the Muggle one?

I've come across one or two fan fiction stories which have dealt seriously with Divination as a worthy branch of magic and respectable career; not the major theme of the story, but they mention Parvati or Lavender working as a 'registered soothsayer' predicting economic swings or foretelling world trends for corporate clients, the girl dressed up in smart work clothes, going to work in the morning, a prestigious office and so forth. Maybe only be a few paragraphs of setting the world/character but those stories do succeed (for me) in showing that the girl made a successful career out of the recognised and valued skill/magic of divination.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

---“The first thing Harry notices the next day is that Draco Malfoy is doing impressions of him fainting to laughing crowds. I know this joke will soon get old and people will stop laughing? But I can’t believe they’re even laughing at it now. ... What teenagers would find this funny?”

80% 0f TV is sh*te, so they’re missing nothing there. However in my mind, they *do* have a unique, rich and fascinating history of literature, music and theatre – JKR was just too busy with other things to develop their culture on the page. Apart from music briefly in GoF and the Yule Ball was just so she could indulge her unfeasible little Mary-Sue fantasy of the brilliant sports star, desperate to date the plain, shrewish and undesirable female – which happens *so* often in real life! With her rubbish record, I’ll just presume it’s an omission until she states otherwise – apologies if she already has!

As for Draco, I agree that it doesn’t seem the most hilarious of party pieces – maybe it’s his running commentary?

---“I do like the implication that Hermione really does dislike Divination because she can’t be good at it, but since it really does seem to be a crock, I can’t like it that much.”

If Hermione had had to face that flaw in her character, then she might have developed into the kinder, more understanding person that I thought I saw hidden under the shrillness and insecurity in the first few books. The one I really liked. However JKR avoided any hint of character growth for almost everyone – unless you include becoming a lot worse - so Hermione had to be right and Divination had to be rubbish – apart from the occasions when it was totally accurate in order to drive the plot.


---“The only reason I can even read this annoying chapter again is that at least I know JKR wrote Hagrid as an unpopular teacher that even the Trio eventually admit is terrible.”

I despise Hagrid. I despise every hair in his stupid beard, I despise every time he says “yeh” instead of you, and I despise (and resent) every second he forced us to spend in the company of the brother from Hades. For me, the ending of the film version of Chamber of Secrets is Hell on Earth. That said, he was Harry’s first friend in the Wizarding World and yet another father figure, so you could understand *his* early bias. I really hope that JKR meant to show that just because Harry liked and depended on someone, didn’t mean they were infallible – something every child learns as they grow up. However, so many other people got away with appalling behaviour with no hint of retribution in this series, I think it was a fluke. She probably just couldn’t be bothered to think up any more unusual creatures/struggled with writing the accent.

As for Hermione’s opinion of Trelawney vs. Draco’s of Hagrid – that’s the sort of total, apparently unrealized hypocrisy I expect from JKR.

[eir-de-scania.livejournal.com]

Either Draco Malfoy is a comic genius and we just don’t hear the routine that goes with the fainting, or wizards have been seriously warped without TV, literature or theater. What teenagers would find this funny?

*** Wizards have a warped sense of humour. Full stop.

We should count or blessings that the books being labelled children's books prevents any wizards dress up as witches with enormous false boobs.

[epea-pteroenta.livejournal.com]

(And is it a truth that (simple) high school teachers are accorded the title 'professor' in the UK? I've always thought that was a bit pretentious. Certainly when reading the 'Harry becomes a DADA teacher while still a student' fan fiction stories.)

Love reading these but never comment but just have to pop in as resident Brit:

No. In Britain Professor is a title awarded to high achieving academics at university. The only way a high school teacher could be a professor is if he has already reached this rank in a university. This would be very unlikely as a professorship is generally awarded to those academics with excellent research credentials, not for teaching.

So basically I have no idea what JKR is doing there.

(Incidentally, why are some women called Madam? Madam Bones, Madam Pomfrey... Is it a title given to a woman who works but isn't a teacher? But that doesn't seem to be consistent. Like so many things.)

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

No. In Britain Professor is a title awarded to high achieving academics at university.

Thanks for that!

As an Australian my own societal values are normally congruent with the British - our culture lies somewhere 'in between' the UK and the USA, I reckon, although I hope/think closer to the Brits - but this whole 'professor' thing has always thrown me off. Certainly my own knowledge and experience (going through university) is exactly as you say.

So I've always wondered what Rowling was on about with all of her 'professors'. Particularly since Hagrid now possesses that title. It's reassuring to read that you, too, "have no idea what JKR is doing there". :-)

(I'm not sure anyone actually addressed Hagrid as such ... maybe Luna? Until Harry does so facetiously in HBP.)

While I'm here ... I've always found it weird, too, how Rubeus Hagrid asks everyone to call him by his last name. I dare say many readers quickly forget that 'Hagrid' is only his surname, which is usually a fairly formal or impersonal means of address. I mean, if Hagrid's name was 'Rubeus Smith', would calling him 'Smith' all the time seem as endearing?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Is it perhaps part of the 'wizards are old-fashioned' thing? Is it a reflection of some centuries old tradition somewhere? I do know that in some Spanish-speaking cultures all teachers are referred to as professors, regardless of what and whom they teach, even those who teach at preschools.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

While Rowling threw bits and pieces of common Western folklore into her series without much regard for their original native source (I'm not nearly as impressed as some star-struck fans by her 'creativity' and 'world building'; so much of it is re-worked myths you'll find any many fairy stories and the like) I don't think she spent much effort in mining foreign cultures *directly* for her material.

On the other hand ... on reading your post I seemed to recall that she'd spent part of her life in Spain, but I was mistaken; her web site states that she married and lived in Portugal:

Jo then moved to northern Portugal, where she taught English as a foreign language. She married in October 1992 and gave birth to a daughter Jessica in 1993. When the marriage ended ...

But - as an ignorant Australian - I dare say Spain and Portugal may be fairly similar in some respects? Maybe this 'Spanish-speaking' cultural idiom you mention also prevails in Portugal?

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

so Hermione had to be right and Divination had to be rubbish – apart from the occasions when it was totally accurate in order to drive the plot.

Funny, I've never picked that up as a flaw or contradiction in the series before.

I guess, maybe, because I *loved* the idea of a prophecy, once it was unveiled as the foundation of the entire 880-plus pages of what we had to wade through in the fifth book. So much could have been made of a bona fide prophecy forcing Harry to be 'murderer or murdered'. But then in the following novel Rowling made a complete joke of the prophecy and took pains to have Dumbledore tell us that it didn't matter, it meant nothing, it had no power (other than Voldemort choosing to grant it same).

(This is the same Dumbledore who sacrificed two lives - almost three with Arthur Weasley - to its protection in the fifth novel. Why oh why didn't Harry challenge him on throwing away those lives for a prophecy which Dumbledore discards so easily (the prophecy does not mean you have to do anything!).)

So yeah, Divination and prophecies, their usefulness and stature seems to vary from book to book and instance to instance; just another plot crutch for Rowling's inconsistent use.

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

I loved the idea of the prophecy too! Especially the way it linked Harry to Neville, that it could so easily have been either of them. I also loved the idea that if Voldemort had just sat on his hands, or Snape had kept his mouth shut, nothing would have happened - it was a great example of a self fulfilling prophecy. However, JKR handled it so badly towards the end. I hated the way, as you point out, that Dumbles just dismissed it, despite the havoc it caused. He should have warned Harry of the great power that knowing the future can bring and the responsibility it entails. He should have warned of the danger of trying to change the future (as opposed to the past, which is handled quite well in this book). He should have warned that trying to prevent something in the future, can actually be the cause of it happening.

Instead, because JKR wanted to poo poo the subject, she torpedoed what could have been an interesting subject the moment it wasn't needed, instead of making it valid in its own right. It really takes away from her story when she rubbishes something on which she built her plot earlier on. Why not say that Divination was as valid a form of telling the future as arithmancy. However prophecys were a whole different ball game, being dependent on having the Inner Eye, a very rare gift. As Trelawney was hardly semi-skilled, they couldn't depend on her properly. Dumbles should have shown more respect for the art, if not the practioner.

Still, it could be worse - it could turn out that Wizards could be their own Secret Keepers and the key event that whole series was based on was pointless. Even JKR wouldn't shoot her series in the foot to that extent! Oh wait...

[tdotm.livejournal.com]

I didn't ponder over the hypocisy either at first. The books were entertaining, not works of genius, so I dismissed it. However the more boring and poorly written/constructed they became (I'm looking at you, Deathly Hallows) the more I started to tear them apart. Order was the first book when my dislike at some behaviour changed from while it was happening dislike to permanent dislike. It's only looking back that I've started to see signs of future problems in the earlier, enjoyable books.

I've said it before, JKR genuinely seems to feel that people's behaviour should be judged by the colour of their tie - I wouldn't want her teaching my children.

Re: part 1

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I have no idea how I switched the Harry/Ron prediction there!

Many of the predictions are too vague or open-ended to be useful and many could have been arrived at by familiarity with the subjects and what Pratchett's witches call 'headology'. Anything unhappy that took place on October 16th could be taken as the fulfillment of the prediction. So Divination might be a 'real' form of magic in the Potterverse but the interpretation of the signs has to be done carefully.

It seems like where it might exists Wizards have no way of intentionally doing it. At least that this point. Maybe it's just a gift that you have or you don't? Because most of what Sybil does seems to be pure fakery (and not very well done at that) but at the same time she's often correct. Why does she have a different voice when she makes a big prophecy for instance? You'd think they'd study that in class.

Re: part 2

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

Hey, I thought you were reading! That's the movie version. The book version is more modest.

Not only am I reading, I've never even seen the movie. But the commercial had that one second of Harry rising into the air so even I can't imagine him on it without the wonderment! But really it's the taxi service that's the point for me. That really struck me in OotP with the Thestrals. After DH we can ride dragons to the list.

I think it does work in the Potterverse, but one needs to apply a lot of critical thinking in the interpretation - filter out the useless stuff or only take seriously predictions that are very specific and be open to all possible interpretations. Which may mean that only after the fact one can understand what a prediction was about. If so the prediction was true but not useful. (But then, most of the time Transfiguration isn't that useful either.)

It's definitely one of those weird things that can send you down the rabbit hole when you think about it. Because on one hand it's real, even if most of the time she's faking it--which is something she'd understandably do. But then there's the fact that Dumbledore seems to happily teach it as a joke--even while he's basing his whole life around a prophecy.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

It's funny that so much of the book comes down to this alleged trial and while we don't see it, we hear about it and it's so weirdly vague about exactly what's being argued. Like with the injury, you've got Pomfrey who could tell them exactly how bad it was if that's what Draco was lying about.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

I think the only reason for Hagrid being a teacher is that he was cleared of his crimes in CoS (right?). The fact that he immediately starts being called "Professor" is just weird. I wonder if JKR just liked the sound of it? Since there's no university in the WW I guess we could just say they took that thing and applied it to school. But it's not even really a title if you just get it when you teach. I mean, it's more of a job title rather than a symbol of academic acheivement.

It strikes me that it's kind of funny the way that Hagrid and everyone immediately get to be professor but Pomfrey doesn't get to be a doctor.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

OMG, that would so happen. Practical jokes shops are like the cornerstone of the economy.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

However in my mind, they *do* have a unique, rich and fascinating history of literature, music and theatre – JKR was just too busy with other things to develop their culture on the page.

Actually, I feel like she actually has said otherwise, basically just suggesting they don't have much in the way of fiction. I guess because magic is so fabulous they don't need it? They do have Martin the Mad Muggle comics but I don't think they are supposed to have any big tradition in the arts.

If Hermione had had to face that flaw in her character, then she might have developed into the kinder, more understanding person that I thought I saw hidden under the shrillness and insecurity in the first few books.

Blackmailing successfully with no consequences was probably a really bad thing to happen to her.

However, so many other people got away with appalling behaviour with no hint of retribution in this series, I think it was a fluke. She probably just couldn’t be bothered to think up any more unusual creatures/struggled with writing the accent.

Really, Harry's understanding of him comes pretty quickly. In PS/SS he pulls that nonsense with the dragon and Harry not only protects him but sits through a detention given by Hagrid that he gets for trying to save his ass. So I guess the thing with Hagrid isn't that Harry realizes he has flaws, because his flaws were always lovable.

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

What's weird is that the prophecy is supposed to be rubbish, yet the very people who think so work so hard to bring it about. Voldemort's the only person who does the right thing dramatically, really. He hears that there's one coming who will vanquish him and sets out to make the prophecy not come true by killing him and *that* makes the prophecy come true. There's nothing interesting about people hearing a prophecy and then working to make sure it comes true.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I remember being quite thrilled with the idea of a solid, bona fide, fair dinkum prophecy as it stood at the end of the fifth book. Harry pondering his fate - to be murdered or murderer. Wondering what this 'power the dark lord knows not' could possibly be.

I've read several fan fiction stories which stand as solid testament as to the potential of the prophecy as a device for generating maximum angst and drama. The way that Harry reveals it to his friends - from one at a time, to only those closest to him - with them giving him solace and support - to mass 'broadcasts' to the wizarding populace. The reactions of those who find out. The tension in trying to keep Voldemort from learning the whole thing. Ploys in fabricating 'false prophecies' to give the dark lord. Differences in how the prophecy can be interpreted. Danger where one least expects it ... was Pettigrew's artificial limb fashioned by 'the hand of the other', could Pettigrew therefore kill Harry? What was the meaning of the superficially nonsensical 'neither can live while the other survives' thing? Was Harry immortal? And so forth.

But no. Rowling only mentioned the prophecy twice in the next book - she made a deliberate farce of Harry's unveiling it to his two closest friends (Hermione gets punched in the eye by a joke telescope three nanoseconds after he tells them about it, completely defusing the moment) and then nothing more happens until Dumbledore poo-poos the whole thing. Harry, the prophecy means nothing, there's no power other than your 'love' (which turns out to be bollocks), okay, I let two men, almost three, die protecting it from Voldemort, but really now, put it out of your mind, forget that your beloved godfather died because I put so much priority on protecting the prophecy I failed to tell you anything about it ...

Bleh.

And then in the seventh book it's left unmentioned until the very end, where Harry pays it some lip service in justifying his suicide march, helping to build up his fatalistic determination to die ... and then Rowling has the effrontery to have him quote the darn thing, 'neither must live while the other survives', in the final piece of melodrama against the Dark Lord. Trying to justify the whole thing, having it stick in the readers' minds - oh, Harry mentioned the prophecy, yeah, it must have been relevant after all!

Bah!

It really takes away from her story when she rubbishes something on which she built her plot earlier on.

Precisely. Normally she just drops such one-shot wonders. In this case the prophecy popped in and out of the last two books, meaning almost nothing but just irritating us with its presence (and irritating me when I come across brainwashed fans who insist that Harry was fated to defeat Voldemort 'because of the prophecy', that he *did* have a 'power of love' and so forth - argh!).

Still, it could be worse - it could turn out that Wizards could be their own Secret Keepers and the key event that whole series was based on was pointless. Even JKR wouldn't shoot her series in the foot to that extent! Oh wait...

Hee. :-)

Yes, the entire series is in ruins because of that seventh book, isn't it? She'd given up any pretence of quality control by then.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

It's only looking back that I've started to see signs of future problems in the earlier, enjoyable books.

It's like that for many of us, I think. Certainly I would have been able to analyse the earlier books and point out the pattern of dei ex machinis and withholding of critical information until the last chapter, the contradictions, the simplistic or hypocritical morality and so forth. But they were clearly written in a style for kids that wasn't intended to hold up to the real world.

But then with the later books she *did* try to make them 'serious'. But even worse, she greatly exaggerated her penchant for one-shot gimmicks, deus ex machina salvation and Dumbledore-explains-at-the-end resolutions. DH in particular has such a sheer *density* of bad writing along these lines any threshold I had with the early books for tolerating same was burnt into fine ash from the overload.

And then we look back and see that the roots of the literary failure that is DH (and HBP!) were there in the early books too ... just not as effusive. But there in plain sight with one's internal filters demolished. DH - the book that opened the eyes of a fans around the globe!

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

it's more of a job title rather than a symbol of academic acheivement.

Yes, that's clearly all it is in Rowling's world. I mean, Hagrid didn't even finish high school, let alone achieve further credentials!

Still, the use of the term 'professor' was at such odds with how I see it used in the everyday world ... my everyday world, anyway ... it would still cause me to raise my eyebrows when I saw it in the books.

One of my opinions of the USA is that it is a country that particularly endorses the practice of 'watering down' once-hallowed titles into much more generalised terms to please the public. I see this as one of the sins of 'political correctness' (the USA has much to answer for!). You know, garbage men become 'sanitary engineers', everyone is a 'consultant' or 'manager' and so forth. I still giggle a bit every time I visit a Subway here in Australia and see the staff wearing their shirts with 'sandwich artist' on their sleeves.

Anyway .... I note that Wikipedia states that the USA has similarly devalued the term 'professor' from its original exalted state as per how it is still used today in the British Commonwealth:

However, in the United States and Canada it is a title given a much larger group of senior university teachers. In the United States it is a title also given to some teachers at colleges, and is colloquially used even for high school teachers.

Maybe some Americans can tell me/us if 'professor' is *really* used for high school teachers?

In something as stubbornly British as Harry Potter, why would Rowling had adopted this American practice? It seems weird to me.

oryx_leucoryx has suggested that Spain does use the term as a general title for teachers, and I've wondered if maybe Portugal does the same ... seeing as how Rowling lived in that country for a few years.