Philosopher's Stone Chapter Eight

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

                                               

Harry meets Snape for the first time.

The Potions Master

*Ron is anonymous as far as anyone at Hogwarts is concerned.  He is just the kid standing next to Harry Potter.  Generous of Harry to confer that distinction on him.  Ron will come to appreciate it...

 

*Hogwarts, the building sounds like a real nightmare.  JKR over reached herself in the UK edition by stating there were 142 staircases there... leading to where I wonder?  How many classes does Hogwarts offer?  I thought it was only 12.  But then the number of students at Hogwarts is really inconsistent from moment to moment as well... oh dear maths.

 

*The ridiculous moving staircases give an impression of prevailing insanity.  If the place is magical why can’t there be teleporters to class rooms and common rooms?  But the “magic” is arranged to make everything harder.  I really would never have got by at Hogwarts, I still don’t have any sense of direction.

 

*And Harry ought, as a Gryffindor, to appreciate Peeves, Hogwarts' resident hazard.  He should love Fluffy even more.

 

*Filch gives little Harry some trouble... well Harry will eventually get his own back on the old squib by hexing him while his backs turned.  IOIAGDI!!

 

*Harry has worked out that the Weasley twins might just have the best knowledge of the building.  He doesn’t know about the Marauders Map yet of course.  In Order of the Phoenix he still hasn’t worked out that anyone who has the map definitely has a far better knowledge of Hogwarts than Filch does.  He still thinks that Filch has the best knowledge of Hogwarts “second only” to that of the Weasley Twins... Oh dear, maths continuity show a little sense Harry!

 

*We never actually see an astronomy lesson.

 

*JKR probably wasn’t a very apt pupil since history is such a boring subject in her view.  With Professor Binns’ methods it looks like we are getting a feel for how she remembers it - and it went right over her head.

 

*Professor Flitwick is a real Harry Potter fanatic.  Really all designated good characters should swoon with pleasure when they see Harry.

 

*McGonagall threatens to chuck out anyone messing around... there is a lot of talk of chucking people out of classes or out of Hogwarts in the very beginning but *comparatively* much less of it as the series goes on.  I suppose the Hogwarts rule must be that being new is no excuse for not already being used to the haphazard rules which relax once the kids are used to the place. 

 

*Please use the needle to gouge out Hermione’s eye someone...

 

*Zombies are zombies at the moment rather than Inferi.  Once again oh dear maths continuity

 

*The turban cannot possibly be a gift AND stuffed full of garlic :p oh dear maths continuity logic. 

 

*It’s interesting that for Harry’s year, those from magical households don’t have a significant head start.  Didn’t Snape know more curses when he started than half the kids in the seventh year?  I think Sirius would have definitely been right about that.

 

*A message from Hagrid.  Despite his celebrity, Hagrid is the only friend Harry has apart from Ron... sad really.  Where would Harry be with no glamour?

 

*The dungeons are colder than the main castle.  The Slytherin complex must be really uncomfortable unless the Malfoys, Lestranges etc. have paid for extra magical heating...

 

*Hagrid has warmth?  Ermm... get to know him better before jumping to conclusions Harry.

 

*I quite liked Snape’s little speech about Potions being both a science and an art - until the exposition is ruined by the bathos of the word “dunderheads.”

 

*Hermione’s suffering from the jerks.  Must be a grim spectacle.

 

*Harry did open a book before coming Snape!  And it’ll be the last time he ever does...

 

*Does Seamus want to be Harry’s friend here?  I suppose Harry’s insularity put the rest of the year group off him quite quickly, but it hasn’t had full effect yet.

 

*A potion for curing ordinary (not Hermione disease) boils indicates that Hogwarts follows a “sabretooth curriculum.”

 

*It is difficult to fathom Snape’s relationship to Malfoy now the series is over...

 

*Silly Neville :p  When I was 11 my chemistry teacher would probably have said sarcastically, “well you’ve been successful haven’t you?”

 

*Snape is the only teacher who has ever, as far as we see, deducted points in denominations of one point... but speculations on this are pointless given JKR’s level of numeracy.

 

*I recall another member of DTCL posted that Professor Kettleburn might be like the Hagrid X-Treme.  I wonder if Ron would have wanted to visit Kettleburn in his leaf pile ;)

 

*Fang is a big dog with the personality of a puppy.  Hagrid is a monstrous man who often exhibits the mind of a little boy.  That’s how they’re similar.  Also Hagrid is like Dumblesnore’s dog.

 

*Hagrid has a real contempt for Filch and all squibs.  I suspect this must be Dumbledore’s opinion of squibs and Hagrid is parroting it.  We all know what a hypocrite Dumbledore really is.  Hagrid does view Dumbledore as a mixture of an all powerful adoptive grandfather and dog owner.  He would be unlikely to blurt out views that Dumbledore did not approve of.

 

*Hagrid liked Charlie a lot.  I wonder how much trouble he was able to get Charlie into?

 

*So the Prophet reckons it would take a dark wizard or dark witch to get into Gringotts?  Doesn’t seem likely.  Really, a little kid could have broken into the emptied vault.  Griphook later tells us that it had minimal protection even by Gringotts standards, after it was emptied.

 

*Harry has three thoughts from visiting Hagrid (and none from his lessons).  Well the rule of three is always advised by professionals who tell you how to make a presentation :) Perhaps only being able to deal with three thoughts at once is really a common syndrome and not something that is an indictment against Harry.

Comments

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Hagrid has a real contempt for Filch and all squibs. I suspect this must be Dumbledore’s opinion of squibs and Hagrid is parroting it. We all know what a hypocrite Dumbledore really is.

No comment on Dumbledore, but I think this is Hagrid's own perspective, which grew out of his own inability to do much magic. Hagrid knows that the ability to do magic is what the WW respects, and he can't do much magic at all, so he looks down on those who can do even less, like squibs. And Muggles.

[sunnyskywalker]

On the other hand, if it does take a dark witch or wizard to break into Gringotts, just think of the implications for the Trio! But it does seem more like it just takes any halfway competent teenager. Yet another example of how Muggles do it better.

It's funny how JKR condemns Filch for wanting to use whips and thumbscrews on students like in the good old days, without connecting the dots that the entire Hogwarts administration allowed torture within the century. Arthur ended up with scars for being out past curfew. (Being a good Gryffindor, he looks back on this fondly.) Maybe Dippet was the last to allow it, but I'm not clear on exactly when Arthur and Molly went to school. Maybe Dumbledore forgot to get rid of the practice right away.

Also, Hagrid got a job at Hogwarts because Dumbledore finagled it, and he returns the favor with eternal loyalty. I wonder what the deal with Filch involved? (I'd ask why Hagrid's dangerous pets get a pass when Filch's useful, rule-enforcing cat doesn't, but IOIAGDI.)

[oryx_leucoryx]

*Ron is anonymous as far as anyone at Hogwarts is concerned.

Not even 'hey Weasley' comments. I suppose people who know the twins don't want the attention of any members of that family.

*Hogwarts, the building sounds like a real nightmare. JKR over reached herself in the UK edition by stating there were 142 staircases there... leading to where I wonder?

A never-ending supply of unused classrooms? (I visited my daughter's future middle school today. Despite the corridors it is orders of magnitude more manageable than Hogwarts.)

*Filch gives little Harry some trouble... well Harry will eventually get his own back on the old squib by hexing him while his backs turned. IOIAGDI!!

Harry and Ron are rescued by Quirrell from the forbidden corridor - Quirrell was already meeting with Fluffy.

*It’s interesting that for Harry’s year, those from magical households don’t have a significant head start. Didn’t Snape know more curses when he started than half the kids in the seventh year? I think Sirius would have definitely been right about that.

How many *curses* does a 7th year know? I believe whitehound cataloged the spells Harry knew to perform by the end of HBP and came up with only a handful that qualified as curses. All it takes is to pick up a book and practice to learn more.

*I quite liked Snape’s little speech about Potions being both a science and an art - until the exposition is ruined by the bathos of the word “dunderheads.”

My teachers called us worse names. Anyway, by 11 I was aware of the way people use hyperbole.

*A potion for curing ordinary (not Hermione disease) boils indicates that Hogwarts follows a “sabretooth curriculum.”

As does the question on the DADA OWLs about telling a werewolf from a natural wolf.

*It is difficult to fathom Snape’s relationship to Malfoy now the series is over...

If he is a family friend as Narcissa's request in HBP indicates they probably knew one another pretty well. And perhaps Draco's work was better than most. (He didn't get House-points for it, though. Nor will anyone from any House ever receive points from Severus.)

*Snape is the only teacher who has ever, as far as we see, deducted points in denominations of one point... but speculations on this are pointless given JKR’s level of numeracy.

He is soft on firsties.

*So the Prophet reckons it would take a dark wizard or dark witch to get into Gringotts? Doesn’t seem likely. Really, a little kid could have broken into the emptied vault. Griphook later tells us that it had minimal protection even by Gringotts standards, after it was emptied.

Unless Griphook was saving face.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Maybe Dippet was the last to allow it, but I'm not clear on exactly when Arthur and Molly went to school. Maybe Dumbledore forgot to get rid of the practice right away.

Based on the fact that they eloped early in the 1st war they probably attended school in the late 60s. Whether Twinkly became headmaster in December 1956 when Minerva came to teach or later is a matter of fan speculation. TMK Rowling never clarified if he went directly from Transfiguration teacher to headmaster or if he spent some time teaching some other subject (such as DADA).

Also, there are those who think Pringle punished Arthur Umbridge-style, without Dumbles' knowledge.

[sunnyskywalker]

*imagines Arthur's hand reading, "I will not sneak out to snog my girlfriend after curfew"*

Hard to imagine Pringle slicing up students right and left, though - and that they remember it fondly does imply that they saw it as a normal thing, not some secret and unusually harsh punishment - without any of the staff noticing, so it seems at least implicitly tolerated even if not officially allowed. Plus, he probably didn't have the Ministry behind him and the power to get any teacher fired, so if they did notice, they could do a bit more to stop him. Maybe it took a while for the institutional culture to change enough that they cared? But then the staff roster might not have changed much - Slughorn was there from the forties or earlier until about 1980, McGonagall was there from the mid-fifties on, Binns has been there forever (not that he'd notice anything, granted), Hagrid was on staff since the early forties as apprentice gamekeeper (Ogg retired sometime after Molly and Arthur's days, and who knows his views), Dumbledore was a teacher and then headmaster since the forties or earlier. I don't think we know when Flitwick, Sprout, Vector, Sinistra, Kettleburn, Hooch, Pomfrey, Pince, or Burbage started, but we never heard about them being newer than Snape and Trelawney, I don't think, so they're probably not off the hook, especially since some are noted as not-young, and wizards don't seem to switch jobs that often. Did they slowly decide that hey, maybe if students come in limping or wincing after detention we should review our disciplinary protocol?

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

*Snape is the only teacher who has ever, as far as we see, deducted points in denominations of one point... but speculations on this are pointless given JKR’s level of numeracy.

He is soft on firsties.

Well, someone ought to give and/or take points in increments smaller than five, or else you just have "point inflation," with 5 points basically equaling 1 point (i.e., the smallest unit of points given/taken).

Although I suppose that point inflation would be a good way for a professor to reduce the relative importance of Quidditch wins to who wins the House Cup.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I don't think we know when Flitwick, Sprout, Vector, Sinistra, Kettleburn, Hooch, Pomfrey, Pince, or Burbage started, but we never heard about them being newer than Snape and Trelawney, I don't think, so they're probably not off the hook, especially since some are noted as not-young, and wizards don't seem to switch jobs that often.

Kettleburn was already teaching when Albus was a young Transfiguration teacher, according to Beedle the Bard. If Quirrell was the former Muggle Studies teacher (interview) then Burbage only started when he left on his fateful Sabbatical. Pomfrey and Flitwick were around in the Marauders' days, but if they were very new then they could have missed Pringle's times.

[snapes-witch.livejournal.com]

If he is a family friend as Narcissa's request in HBP indicates they probably knew one another pretty well. And perhaps Draco's work was better than most. (He didn't get House-points for it, though. Nor will anyone from any House ever receive points from Severus.)

Tom Felton said JKR told him Snape was Draco's godfather or maybe that she'd considered it. I don't think I'm imagining that! lol

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered if the series might not be better if Rowling had decided to make Harry's being the cause of Voldemort's demise a secret known only to a few (perhaps Voldie didn't tell anyone he was going to kill the Potters, for example). That way, Harry wouldn't have this whole cult-of-personality thing about him, meaning that he could be plausibly portrayed as an underdog. If Dumbledore and Sirius were among those who know, Sirius could perhaps tell Harry in POA what happened (Dumbledore obviously wouldn't see fit to tell someone of a small matter such as how their parents died), teaching Harry a valuable lesson about how Dumbledore isn't perfect and bling faith in authority figures isn't necessarily a good thing.

"*Filch gives little Harry some trouble... well Harry will eventually get his own back on the old squib by hexing him while his backs turned. IOIAGDI!!"

Well obviously Filch deserves to be publicly humiliated! Why, he continually showed his evil nature by... er... complaining at having to clean up the mess students leave in the corridors!

(BTW, remember when that notorious bully and Pureblood supremacist Draco Malfoy hexed an unsuspecting squib in front of a laughing audience? No, me neither.)

"*JKR probably wasn’t a very apt pupil since history is such a boring subject in her view. With Professor Binns’ methods it looks like we are getting a feel for how she remembers it - and it went right over her head."

I always thought the History of Magic lessons to be quite interesting, actually, which I suppose I'm one of those cowardly Ravenclaws who actually like finding out new facts.

And yes, JKR often gives off the impression of having been a bit slow in school. Obviously, this means that anyone who isn't is morally dubious. Maybe the children of Scotland were lucky that she couldn't get a job as a teacher.

"*It is difficult to fathom Snape’s relationship to Malfoy now the series is over..."

Naturally, Snape being friendly with Malfoy and praising his potions is evil favouritism, whereas Dumbledore being friendly with Harry, giving him private lessons, bending the rules to let him play Quidditch in his first year, buying him a new broom, and spending a whole year worrying about whether Harry will be upset at not being a prefect is totally different.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

That might explain their friendliness. Mind you, I bet that most of the Slytherins like Snape anyway, given that he often seems to be the only teacher who's really on their side.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Naturally, Snape being friendly with Malfoy and praising his potions is evil favouritism, whereas Dumbledore being friendly with Harry, giving him private lessons, bending the rules to let him play Quidditch in his first year, buying him a new broom, and spending a whole year worrying about whether Harry will be upset at not being a prefect is totally different.

Maybe it's something to do with beards? Dumbledore has a long white beard, so he's fluffy and kind. Hagrid has a bristly black beard, so he's warm and good-hearted but doesn't know his own strength. In DH I think Harry gets slightly unshaven on the camping trip, meaning he's badass enough to throw Unforgivables without punishment. Snape on the other hand is never described with a beard (although I've heard he has a goatee in the American illustrations), so he is smooth and slippery and can't be relied upon. Voldemort, of course, is hairless, thus symbolising his inability to feel remorse or anything good. This also explains why Gryffindor's mascot is a lion, and why Hufflepuffs are more trustworthy than Ravenclaws due to a badger having fur, and why Ravenclaws can be trusted if their feathers are soft enough.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

*So the Prophet reckons it would take a dark wizard or dark witch to get into Gringotts? Doesn’t seem likely. Really, a little kid could have broken into the emptied vault. Griphook later tells us that it had minimal protection even by Gringotts standards, after it was emptied.

Well, you also supposedly have to use powerful dark magic to escape Azkaban (so why do they keep powerful dark wizards there in the first place), which implies the Animagus transformation and all wandless magic is Dark, so it looks more and more like wizards define Dark magic as "anything hard that I can't see myself wanting to use at the moment and that no one I respect uses" - a very Gryffindor definition.

Although to be fair, Harry did use Imperio to get past one of the guards, so some Dark magic seems to have been used both times.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

And of course, the Slytherin serpent is even less furry than the other animals. It all makes perfect sense now!

(I don't think Draco's got a beard either, the rotter.)

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

I know it hasn't come up yet, but why did Charlie 'n' pals have to collect the dragon on top of the Astronomy Tower? Wouldn't it have been easier to collect her from the edge of the Forest, or Hagrid's house?

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

And yes, JKR often gives off the impression of having been a bit slow in school. Obviously, this means that anyone who isn't is morally dubious. Maybe the children of Scotland were lucky that she couldn't get a job as a teacher.


She had a job, but quit it so she could draw the dole and write. That makes less of a heartwarming story though.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Had he really been Draco's godfather, wouldn't Narcissa have said so, instead of calling him Draco's favorite teacher and Lucius' old friend? She was trying to push all available buttons.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

It also puts a slightly different complexion on that "ZOMG evil Tories picking on poor unemployed people like me!" article she wrote for the Times a while back.

[oryx_leucoryx]

(I don't think Draco's got a beard either, the rotter.)

No, he got the evil receding hairline.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well obviously Filch deserves to be publicly humiliated! Why, he continually showed his evil nature by... er... complaining at having to clean up the mess students leave in the corridors!

Well, he was the only staff member to support Umbridge's regime. Not that he had the opportunity to do anything besides making nasty comments and looking mean. Though he would have whipped the twins if given the chance.

[detritius.livejournal.com]

Also, women can't grow beards at all, and they're all scheming and untrustworthy. (I'm a woman - I know what we're like.)

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Because it sounds cool? Because Minerva refused to go out from the castle and still had to catch Harry and Co.? ;o)) Because it is less rational and more dangerous to carry a dragon through all the castle?

JKR and beards

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

What proportion of heterosexual women find the beard attractive I wonder... don't they tend to get in the way and be difficult to maintain? ;)

Re: JKR and beards

[oryx_leucoryx]

A short, trimmed beard is attractive on the right face. The really long ones - not so much. But then Dumbledore is not only gay but also has been avoiding romance and sex since he was 18 and Hagrid only goes for half-giantesses.

Dumbledore's tenure as headmaster

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

It's necessary to be cautious about any matter that involves JKR's ability to add and subtract. She might have mapped out Dumblesnore having taken the post of headmaster in the 'fifties and have Molly and Arthur be fortysomethings who attended Hogwarts in the 19th century :o

[sunnyskywalker]

Too bad he's only the caretaker - why, if he were a teacher, he could smack students against stone floors and cast Unforgivables in class and get nothing more than a mild reprimand!

I guess that shows McGonagall might have been willing to look the other way if Pringle were whipping students on the sly. Especially Slytherins. (But it's good for building Gryffindors' character too, of course.) Maybe it was something the old crowd didn't and still doesn't particularly care about, and things only started (slowly) changing whenever Pomfrey showed up and went OH HELL NO YOU REALIZE I HAVE TO FIX ALL THIS?