Philosopher's Stone Chapter Eight

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

                                               

Harry meets Snape for the first time.

The Potions Master

*Ron is anonymous as far as anyone at Hogwarts is concerned.  He is just the kid standing next to Harry Potter.  Generous of Harry to confer that distinction on him.  Ron will come to appreciate it...

 

*Hogwarts, the building sounds like a real nightmare.  JKR over reached herself in the UK edition by stating there were 142 staircases there... leading to where I wonder?  How many classes does Hogwarts offer?  I thought it was only 12.  But then the number of students at Hogwarts is really inconsistent from moment to moment as well... oh dear maths.

 

*The ridiculous moving staircases give an impression of prevailing insanity.  If the place is magical why can’t there be teleporters to class rooms and common rooms?  But the “magic” is arranged to make everything harder.  I really would never have got by at Hogwarts, I still don’t have any sense of direction.

 

*And Harry ought, as a Gryffindor, to appreciate Peeves, Hogwarts' resident hazard.  He should love Fluffy even more.

 

*Filch gives little Harry some trouble... well Harry will eventually get his own back on the old squib by hexing him while his backs turned.  IOIAGDI!!

 

*Harry has worked out that the Weasley twins might just have the best knowledge of the building.  He doesn’t know about the Marauders Map yet of course.  In Order of the Phoenix he still hasn’t worked out that anyone who has the map definitely has a far better knowledge of Hogwarts than Filch does.  He still thinks that Filch has the best knowledge of Hogwarts “second only” to that of the Weasley Twins... Oh dear, maths continuity show a little sense Harry!

 

*We never actually see an astronomy lesson.

 

*JKR probably wasn’t a very apt pupil since history is such a boring subject in her view.  With Professor Binns’ methods it looks like we are getting a feel for how she remembers it - and it went right over her head.

 

*Professor Flitwick is a real Harry Potter fanatic.  Really all designated good characters should swoon with pleasure when they see Harry.

 

*McGonagall threatens to chuck out anyone messing around... there is a lot of talk of chucking people out of classes or out of Hogwarts in the very beginning but *comparatively* much less of it as the series goes on.  I suppose the Hogwarts rule must be that being new is no excuse for not already being used to the haphazard rules which relax once the kids are used to the place. 

 

*Please use the needle to gouge out Hermione’s eye someone...

 

*Zombies are zombies at the moment rather than Inferi.  Once again oh dear maths continuity

 

*The turban cannot possibly be a gift AND stuffed full of garlic :p oh dear maths continuity logic. 

 

*It’s interesting that for Harry’s year, those from magical households don’t have a significant head start.  Didn’t Snape know more curses when he started than half the kids in the seventh year?  I think Sirius would have definitely been right about that.

 

*A message from Hagrid.  Despite his celebrity, Hagrid is the only friend Harry has apart from Ron... sad really.  Where would Harry be with no glamour?

 

*The dungeons are colder than the main castle.  The Slytherin complex must be really uncomfortable unless the Malfoys, Lestranges etc. have paid for extra magical heating...

 

*Hagrid has warmth?  Ermm... get to know him better before jumping to conclusions Harry.

 

*I quite liked Snape’s little speech about Potions being both a science and an art - until the exposition is ruined by the bathos of the word “dunderheads.”

 

*Hermione’s suffering from the jerks.  Must be a grim spectacle.

 

*Harry did open a book before coming Snape!  And it’ll be the last time he ever does...

 

*Does Seamus want to be Harry’s friend here?  I suppose Harry’s insularity put the rest of the year group off him quite quickly, but it hasn’t had full effect yet.

 

*A potion for curing ordinary (not Hermione disease) boils indicates that Hogwarts follows a “sabretooth curriculum.”

 

*It is difficult to fathom Snape’s relationship to Malfoy now the series is over...

 

*Silly Neville :p  When I was 11 my chemistry teacher would probably have said sarcastically, “well you’ve been successful haven’t you?”

 

*Snape is the only teacher who has ever, as far as we see, deducted points in denominations of one point... but speculations on this are pointless given JKR’s level of numeracy.

 

*I recall another member of DTCL posted that Professor Kettleburn might be like the Hagrid X-Treme.  I wonder if Ron would have wanted to visit Kettleburn in his leaf pile ;)

 

*Fang is a big dog with the personality of a puppy.  Hagrid is a monstrous man who often exhibits the mind of a little boy.  That’s how they’re similar.  Also Hagrid is like Dumblesnore’s dog.

 

*Hagrid has a real contempt for Filch and all squibs.  I suspect this must be Dumbledore’s opinion of squibs and Hagrid is parroting it.  We all know what a hypocrite Dumbledore really is.  Hagrid does view Dumbledore as a mixture of an all powerful adoptive grandfather and dog owner.  He would be unlikely to blurt out views that Dumbledore did not approve of.

 

*Hagrid liked Charlie a lot.  I wonder how much trouble he was able to get Charlie into?

 

*So the Prophet reckons it would take a dark wizard or dark witch to get into Gringotts?  Doesn’t seem likely.  Really, a little kid could have broken into the emptied vault.  Griphook later tells us that it had minimal protection even by Gringotts standards, after it was emptied.

 

*Harry has three thoughts from visiting Hagrid (and none from his lessons).  Well the rule of three is always advised by professionals who tell you how to make a presentation :) Perhaps only being able to deal with three thoughts at once is really a common syndrome and not something that is an indictment against Harry.

Comments

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

Hagrid has a real contempt for Filch and all squibs. I suspect this must be Dumbledore’s opinion of squibs and Hagrid is parroting it. We all know what a hypocrite Dumbledore really is.

No comment on Dumbledore, but I think this is Hagrid's own perspective, which grew out of his own inability to do much magic. Hagrid knows that the ability to do magic is what the WW respects, and he can't do much magic at all, so he looks down on those who can do even less, like squibs. And Muggles.

[sunnyskywalker]

On the other hand, if it does take a dark witch or wizard to break into Gringotts, just think of the implications for the Trio! But it does seem more like it just takes any halfway competent teenager. Yet another example of how Muggles do it better.

It's funny how JKR condemns Filch for wanting to use whips and thumbscrews on students like in the good old days, without connecting the dots that the entire Hogwarts administration allowed torture within the century. Arthur ended up with scars for being out past curfew. (Being a good Gryffindor, he looks back on this fondly.) Maybe Dippet was the last to allow it, but I'm not clear on exactly when Arthur and Molly went to school. Maybe Dumbledore forgot to get rid of the practice right away.

Also, Hagrid got a job at Hogwarts because Dumbledore finagled it, and he returns the favor with eternal loyalty. I wonder what the deal with Filch involved? (I'd ask why Hagrid's dangerous pets get a pass when Filch's useful, rule-enforcing cat doesn't, but IOIAGDI.)

[oryx_leucoryx]

Maybe Dippet was the last to allow it, but I'm not clear on exactly when Arthur and Molly went to school. Maybe Dumbledore forgot to get rid of the practice right away.

Based on the fact that they eloped early in the 1st war they probably attended school in the late 60s. Whether Twinkly became headmaster in December 1956 when Minerva came to teach or later is a matter of fan speculation. TMK Rowling never clarified if he went directly from Transfiguration teacher to headmaster or if he spent some time teaching some other subject (such as DADA).

Also, there are those who think Pringle punished Arthur Umbridge-style, without Dumbles' knowledge.

[sunnyskywalker]

*imagines Arthur's hand reading, "I will not sneak out to snog my girlfriend after curfew"*

Hard to imagine Pringle slicing up students right and left, though - and that they remember it fondly does imply that they saw it as a normal thing, not some secret and unusually harsh punishment - without any of the staff noticing, so it seems at least implicitly tolerated even if not officially allowed. Plus, he probably didn't have the Ministry behind him and the power to get any teacher fired, so if they did notice, they could do a bit more to stop him. Maybe it took a while for the institutional culture to change enough that they cared? But then the staff roster might not have changed much - Slughorn was there from the forties or earlier until about 1980, McGonagall was there from the mid-fifties on, Binns has been there forever (not that he'd notice anything, granted), Hagrid was on staff since the early forties as apprentice gamekeeper (Ogg retired sometime after Molly and Arthur's days, and who knows his views), Dumbledore was a teacher and then headmaster since the forties or earlier. I don't think we know when Flitwick, Sprout, Vector, Sinistra, Kettleburn, Hooch, Pomfrey, Pince, or Burbage started, but we never heard about them being newer than Snape and Trelawney, I don't think, so they're probably not off the hook, especially since some are noted as not-young, and wizards don't seem to switch jobs that often. Did they slowly decide that hey, maybe if students come in limping or wincing after detention we should review our disciplinary protocol?

Dumbledore's tenure as headmaster

[urbanman1984.livejournal.com]

It's necessary to be cautious about any matter that involves JKR's ability to add and subtract. She might have mapped out Dumblesnore having taken the post of headmaster in the 'fifties and have Molly and Arthur be fortysomethings who attended Hogwarts in the 19th century :o

[oryx_leucoryx]

*Ron is anonymous as far as anyone at Hogwarts is concerned.

Not even 'hey Weasley' comments. I suppose people who know the twins don't want the attention of any members of that family.

*Hogwarts, the building sounds like a real nightmare. JKR over reached herself in the UK edition by stating there were 142 staircases there... leading to where I wonder?

A never-ending supply of unused classrooms? (I visited my daughter's future middle school today. Despite the corridors it is orders of magnitude more manageable than Hogwarts.)

*Filch gives little Harry some trouble... well Harry will eventually get his own back on the old squib by hexing him while his backs turned. IOIAGDI!!

Harry and Ron are rescued by Quirrell from the forbidden corridor - Quirrell was already meeting with Fluffy.

*It’s interesting that for Harry’s year, those from magical households don’t have a significant head start. Didn’t Snape know more curses when he started than half the kids in the seventh year? I think Sirius would have definitely been right about that.

How many *curses* does a 7th year know? I believe whitehound cataloged the spells Harry knew to perform by the end of HBP and came up with only a handful that qualified as curses. All it takes is to pick up a book and practice to learn more.

*I quite liked Snape’s little speech about Potions being both a science and an art - until the exposition is ruined by the bathos of the word “dunderheads.”

My teachers called us worse names. Anyway, by 11 I was aware of the way people use hyperbole.

*A potion for curing ordinary (not Hermione disease) boils indicates that Hogwarts follows a “sabretooth curriculum.”

As does the question on the DADA OWLs about telling a werewolf from a natural wolf.

*It is difficult to fathom Snape’s relationship to Malfoy now the series is over...

If he is a family friend as Narcissa's request in HBP indicates they probably knew one another pretty well. And perhaps Draco's work was better than most. (He didn't get House-points for it, though. Nor will anyone from any House ever receive points from Severus.)

*Snape is the only teacher who has ever, as far as we see, deducted points in denominations of one point... but speculations on this are pointless given JKR’s level of numeracy.

He is soft on firsties.

*So the Prophet reckons it would take a dark wizard or dark witch to get into Gringotts? Doesn’t seem likely. Really, a little kid could have broken into the emptied vault. Griphook later tells us that it had minimal protection even by Gringotts standards, after it was emptied.

Unless Griphook was saving face.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

*Snape is the only teacher who has ever, as far as we see, deducted points in denominations of one point... but speculations on this are pointless given JKR’s level of numeracy.

He is soft on firsties.

Well, someone ought to give and/or take points in increments smaller than five, or else you just have "point inflation," with 5 points basically equaling 1 point (i.e., the smallest unit of points given/taken).

Although I suppose that point inflation would be a good way for a professor to reduce the relative importance of Quidditch wins to who wins the House Cup.

[snapes-witch.livejournal.com]

If he is a family friend as Narcissa's request in HBP indicates they probably knew one another pretty well. And perhaps Draco's work was better than most. (He didn't get House-points for it, though. Nor will anyone from any House ever receive points from Severus.)

Tom Felton said JKR told him Snape was Draco's godfather or maybe that she'd considered it. I don't think I'm imagining that! lol

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

That might explain their friendliness. Mind you, I bet that most of the Slytherins like Snape anyway, given that he often seems to be the only teacher who's really on their side.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Had he really been Draco's godfather, wouldn't Narcissa have said so, instead of calling him Draco's favorite teacher and Lucius' old friend? She was trying to push all available buttons.

[cured4life.livejournal.com]

I believe that would be true. So since Narcissa didn't state that then it can't be true in canon.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

I've often wondered if the series might not be better if Rowling had decided to make Harry's being the cause of Voldemort's demise a secret known only to a few (perhaps Voldie didn't tell anyone he was going to kill the Potters, for example). That way, Harry wouldn't have this whole cult-of-personality thing about him, meaning that he could be plausibly portrayed as an underdog. If Dumbledore and Sirius were among those who know, Sirius could perhaps tell Harry in POA what happened (Dumbledore obviously wouldn't see fit to tell someone of a small matter such as how their parents died), teaching Harry a valuable lesson about how Dumbledore isn't perfect and bling faith in authority figures isn't necessarily a good thing.

"*Filch gives little Harry some trouble... well Harry will eventually get his own back on the old squib by hexing him while his backs turned. IOIAGDI!!"

Well obviously Filch deserves to be publicly humiliated! Why, he continually showed his evil nature by... er... complaining at having to clean up the mess students leave in the corridors!

(BTW, remember when that notorious bully and Pureblood supremacist Draco Malfoy hexed an unsuspecting squib in front of a laughing audience? No, me neither.)

"*JKR probably wasn’t a very apt pupil since history is such a boring subject in her view. With Professor Binns’ methods it looks like we are getting a feel for how she remembers it - and it went right over her head."

I always thought the History of Magic lessons to be quite interesting, actually, which I suppose I'm one of those cowardly Ravenclaws who actually like finding out new facts.

And yes, JKR often gives off the impression of having been a bit slow in school. Obviously, this means that anyone who isn't is morally dubious. Maybe the children of Scotland were lucky that she couldn't get a job as a teacher.

"*It is difficult to fathom Snape’s relationship to Malfoy now the series is over..."

Naturally, Snape being friendly with Malfoy and praising his potions is evil favouritism, whereas Dumbledore being friendly with Harry, giving him private lessons, bending the rules to let him play Quidditch in his first year, buying him a new broom, and spending a whole year worrying about whether Harry will be upset at not being a prefect is totally different.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Naturally, Snape being friendly with Malfoy and praising his potions is evil favouritism, whereas Dumbledore being friendly with Harry, giving him private lessons, bending the rules to let him play Quidditch in his first year, buying him a new broom, and spending a whole year worrying about whether Harry will be upset at not being a prefect is totally different.

Maybe it's something to do with beards? Dumbledore has a long white beard, so he's fluffy and kind. Hagrid has a bristly black beard, so he's warm and good-hearted but doesn't know his own strength. In DH I think Harry gets slightly unshaven on the camping trip, meaning he's badass enough to throw Unforgivables without punishment. Snape on the other hand is never described with a beard (although I've heard he has a goatee in the American illustrations), so he is smooth and slippery and can't be relied upon. Voldemort, of course, is hairless, thus symbolising his inability to feel remorse or anything good. This also explains why Gryffindor's mascot is a lion, and why Hufflepuffs are more trustworthy than Ravenclaws due to a badger having fur, and why Ravenclaws can be trusted if their feathers are soft enough.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

And of course, the Slytherin serpent is even less furry than the other animals. It all makes perfect sense now!

(I don't think Draco's got a beard either, the rotter.)

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

And yes, JKR often gives off the impression of having been a bit slow in school. Obviously, this means that anyone who isn't is morally dubious. Maybe the children of Scotland were lucky that she couldn't get a job as a teacher.


She had a job, but quit it so she could draw the dole and write. That makes less of a heartwarming story though.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

It also puts a slightly different complexion on that "ZOMG evil Tories picking on poor unemployed people like me!" article she wrote for the Times a while back.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well obviously Filch deserves to be publicly humiliated! Why, he continually showed his evil nature by... er... complaining at having to clean up the mess students leave in the corridors!

Well, he was the only staff member to support Umbridge's regime. Not that he had the opportunity to do anything besides making nasty comments and looking mean. Though he would have whipped the twins if given the chance.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

*So the Prophet reckons it would take a dark wizard or dark witch to get into Gringotts? Doesn’t seem likely. Really, a little kid could have broken into the emptied vault. Griphook later tells us that it had minimal protection even by Gringotts standards, after it was emptied.

Well, you also supposedly have to use powerful dark magic to escape Azkaban (so why do they keep powerful dark wizards there in the first place), which implies the Animagus transformation and all wandless magic is Dark, so it looks more and more like wizards define Dark magic as "anything hard that I can't see myself wanting to use at the moment and that no one I respect uses" - a very Gryffindor definition.

Although to be fair, Harry did use Imperio to get past one of the guards, so some Dark magic seems to have been used both times.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

I know it hasn't come up yet, but why did Charlie 'n' pals have to collect the dragon on top of the Astronomy Tower? Wouldn't it have been easier to collect her from the edge of the Forest, or Hagrid's house?

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Because it sounds cool? Because Minerva refused to go out from the castle and still had to catch Harry and Co.? ;o)) Because it is less rational and more dangerous to carry a dragon through all the castle?

[sistermagpie.livejournal.com]

When you really think about (which okay, is never the point!), it's kind of illogical that Filch would be the janitor, or that there'd be this understanding that that's the Squib type job. Cleaning a castle is exactly the thing you'd use magic for (and in fact there's an army of invisible slaves already doing it better than Filch ever could), where as a Squib might be brilliant at plenty of other things.

It's one of those places where the metaphor or satire kind of falls down. Filch being a Squib maps onto the stereotype of the jealous janitor who's got the kind of job the kids at the boarding school are being trained to soar right by, but a lack of magic shouldn't really equate to a lack of education. It does in this universe because all the kids actually learn is magic, but it's not a direct logical thing where lack of education should lead to a menial job, because the education in this universe makes you more qualified for the menial jobs.

It’s interesting that for Harry’s year, those from magical households don’t have a significant head start. Didn’t Snape know more curses when he started than half the kids in the seventh year? I think Sirius would have definitely been right about that.

I remember having discussions about the whole Muggleborn prejudice thing and people tried to create a logical situation where Muggleborns were discriminated against because they were behind when it came to magic. But canon completely dismisses that difference by saying flat out that the Muggleborns aren't at all disadvantaged and by having a hero who is Muggle raised.

[oryx_leucoryx]

but it's not a direct logical thing where lack of education should lead to a menial job, because the education in this universe makes you more qualified for the menial jobs.

Excellent observation!

I remember having discussions about the whole Muggleborn prejudice thing and people tried to create a logical situation where Muggleborns were discriminated against because they were behind when it came to magic. But canon completely dismisses that difference by saying flat out that the Muggleborns aren't at all disadvantaged and by having a hero who is Muggle raised.

As well as an arch-villain who was Muggle-raised and the most advanced in his training before school. Plus Lily-Sue.

Muggle-raised kids lack cultural knowledge of the Wizarding World - they don't know the Tales of Beedle the Bard, or what the history of conflicts between wizards and goblins was, or which uses of magic are considered appropriate and which aren't. This may disadvantage them outside the classroom for a while but not inside it. OTOH they are more free than wizard-raised kids to explore their innate magic once they discover it.

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

Yes, it makes no sense that a Squib who can't do magic would be in a position to monitor or even harm, much less clean up after, students who can do magic. It's actually a very cruel position to put someone without magic in, and in a "might makes right" world, would logically lead to the abuse that Filch suffers at the hands of Potter, our hero. I'm surprised we didn't see more scenes of Filch-baiting.

And yet, in a society where magical power means so much, it also makes sense that those who don't have magical power, and who can't or won't leave the society, will fall out at the bottom. Janitorial work, for better or worse, is usually thought of as a lowly thing to do in the Muggle world.

It's a strange dynamic that feels class-based to me. Hagrid, without a wand and without completing his so-called education, keeps the grounds until he is promoted to professor, where he's totally out of his depth. Shunpike boasts of being a Death Eater under the influence of Veelas, then we see him in the thick of a Death Eater attack, only witless, at least according to Potter. Fletcher wants to be an Order member, but he is a hapless dupe, and is at some point throttled by Potter. The Gaunts are debased hillbillies whose illusions of supremacy doom them. Filch seems to want the power to enforce rules and keep order, and when he gets an ally in Umbridge, things spiral out of his control. Are there any truly lower or working class figures who make good in the HP books, who the author doesn't punish for being jump-ups? I don't think Snape is the answer to this question. The message seems to be know your deserved place and stay in it.

I'm not familiar with the jealous janitor theme except for The Simpsons, and Groundskeeper Willie isn't jealous so much as dismissive of students' delusions about their futures. I didn't see Filch as jealous of students' abilities so much as wistful, hoping to somehow learn magic for his own amazement and use. However, now that I think about it, Filch's desire to punish students might have come from jealousy (I thought it was just something he liked to do).

The baffling thing is Snape's reliance on Filch to help with bandaging in PS, and then Snape's suppressed smile at Filch's distress when Mrs. Norris is petrified in COS. I'm not sure what the picture is supposed to be when both scenes are taken together. But that's way off on a tangent, as usual.

[sunnyskywalker]

My first thought would be to assume that Dumbledore gave Filch the job for some purpose other than actually wanting a Squib janitor, because that's the sort of thing he does. But we can figure out why he stationed Arabella Fig on Privet Drive, got the oh-so-loyal Hagrid on the gameskeeper track, etc., and I can't see any other purpose Filch is fulfilling, unless it's teaching the kids how to disrespect non-magical people. (Although I'm sure someone could find a way to make his records of decades' of students' misdeeds extremely useful.) So... maybe he asked Filch to do something for him, Filch refused, and Dumbledore arranged that he'd have no option but to work at Hogwarts as punishment - er, I mean, a constant friendly reminder of why it is right to help Dumbledore, that's it - until he reconsiders? Or maybe he's the Order's super-secret backup interrogator.

But really, it just doesn't make sense.

[oryx_leucoryx]

On Severus' knowledge of curses - I found whitehound's analysis. It is in But Snape is just nasty, right?. The relevant part is:

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Sirius says that "Snape knew more curses when he arrived at school than half the kids in seventh year". This is a profoundly traumatized man in his mid thirties, trying to remember an impression gained when he was eleven about somebody he is deeply prejudiced against. Nevertheless, let's assume it's true and see what it tells us.

The logical corollary is that Snape knew fewer curses than half the seventh years, or the same number. So Snape is being accused of precocity rather than monstrousness. And we know he was precocious, because he invented Levicorpus in the margin of a sixth-form text-book, and yet Remus tells us that Levicorpus enjoyed a vogue at Hogwarts for some months during their fifth year. Ergo, Snape was using a sixth year text as a note-book quite early in fifth year.

[We can assume Advanced Potion-Making was a NEWT text when Snape was at school, because even Umbridge admits that the fifth-year Potions class he later teaches is quite far ahead for their age, yet when they start Advanced Potion-Making in sixth year the recipes in it are new to them. Ergo, Advanced Potion-Making really is quite advanced.]

Knowing a lot of curses does suggest a penchant for combat spells, but several curses are either on the Hogwarts curriculum or readily available in the library. When Draco uses Locomotor mortis on Neville in first year he announces that he's been looking for somebody to practice it on and the Trio all recognise it at once, which suggests that they've been taught it, or at least taught about it, in class. Hermione already knows Petrificus totalus in first year, which she presumably got from a book, and in fourth year they learn Reductor from a book with McGonagall's blessing, and are taught about the Unforgivables. A student it seems may know several curses and yet not know anything which the school deems unacceptable. And how many curses is more curses than are known to half the new seventh years?

At the end of sixth year, Harry - who is such a Defence Against the Dark Arts expert that he's competent to teach it - knows Reductor, Locomotor mortis, Petrificus totalus and Furnunculus. He knows of the three Unforgivables but can't yet cast them effectively. And he knows Sectumsempra, which is also considered a curse.

[Harry also knows Impedimenta, but only once, in the US edition of GoF, is it called the Impediment Curse, and this seems to be an error. Everywhere else - including the same place in the UK edition - it's called the Impediment Jinx.]

So that's five curses he can perform, and three he knows of but can't really perform, most of them sanctioned by the school, for an Outstanding DADA student at the transition-point between sixth and seventh years. On this evidence, "knows more curses than half the seventh years" probably means "knows six curses". Indeed, we can assume fairly confidently that Severus didn't know any more than six or seven curses, because if even the most Outstanding DADA student starts seventh year knowing only eight curses, three of which he can't yet do, that means that if Severus had known more than six or seven he would have known more than almost all the seventh years, not just half of them, and Sirius would have said so.

Nor, of course, do we know whether he used those curses offensively, defensively or in a duelling club.
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