PS Chapter Two

[hafl.livejournal.com]

- The manner in which Dursleys abuse Harry is so over the top, it is hard to take seriously.

- Harry can't understand why would Dudley want to get a bicycle, since he apparently hates sports and is fat. Clearly, Dudley is morally deficient.

- Harry's glasses are held together only by Scotch tape, because Dudley punches him into nose so often. In the previous paragraph, it was stated that Harry is so fast, Dudley can't often catch him. These two sentences don't mesh together well.

- Not only is Harry not afraid of spiders, but also likes his scar. A true Gryffindor.

- Dudley is so fat he is like a pig. Hahaha, fat people are pathetic. Unless they're matronly of course.

- Okay, Dudley has no trouble while counting his gifts one by one, but when he has to add two at once, he is suddenly having problems?

- Harry find it hard to feel sorry that Mrs. Figg has broken her leg. The power of love at work, ladies and gentlemen.

- Petunia "looking furiously at Harry as though he'd planned this" is actually pretty interesting. If I remember Deathly Hallows correctly, Snape had some measure of control over his magic even before he entered Hogwarts and Petunia knew about it. As far as she knows, Harry may have caused Mrs. Figg to break her leg.

- Dudley is so spoiled he knows he only needs to pretend to cry to get all he wants.

- Again, Vernon warns Harry about doing anything weird. This and all the accounts of Harry's mishaps really reinforces the idea that the Dursleys are scared of Harry and think he is in control of his magic.

- Now that's Harry's school is mentioned, how come nobody noticed him being abused by the Dursleys? I don't mean classmates, I mean the school administration. They should know that both Harry and Dudley have the same address and they should know that Dursleys are Harry's legal guardians. Why didn't anyone the teachers notice that Harry's probably malnourished, wears only old clothes and his glasses are constantly getting broken, while Dudley's fat and owns only new things? I don't know that much about British educational system, especially in the eighties, but it probably wasn't that bad.

- In the zoo, Harry feels compassionate towards the snake. At this point, he's still a sympathetic kid.

- Now, after the snake incident, Piers claims that Harry was talking to the snake. Okay, but Parseltongue is apparently just hissing. So is Piers saying that Harry was talking just a simplification to avoid the revelation that Parseltongue is hissing? Or, if Harry was using human speech, why did the snake understand him?

- The Dursleys reaction is actually completely understandable. From their point of view, Harry was using is magic and from all the incidents that were mentioned, this one is the only one, where Dursleys could reasonably think that Harry was trying to attack them.

- And at the end of the chapter, we are again reminded that Harry is lonely and abused and that there's something mysterious about him.

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

- Petunia "looking furiously at Harry as though he'd planned this" is actually pretty interesting. If I remember Deathly Hallows correctly, Snape had some measure of control over his magic even before he entered Hogwarts and Petunia knew about it. As far as she knows, Harry may have caused Mrs. Figg to break her leg.


It is doubtful how much control Severus had, but Lily certainly did. Remember that creepy opening and closing of the flower? And Petunia had more familiarity with Lily's magic than Severus'.

- Again, Vernon warns Harry about doing anything weird. This and all the accounts of Harry's mishaps really reinforces the idea that the Dursleys are scared of Harry and think he is in control of his magic.

Yes indeed!

- Now that's Harry's school is mentioned, how come nobody noticed him being abused by the Dursleys? I don't mean classmates, I mean the school administration. They should know that both Harry and Dudley have the same address and they should know that Dursleys are Harry's legal guardians. Why didn't anyone the teachers notice that Harry's probably malnourished, wears only old clothes and his glasses are constantly getting broken, while Dudley's fat and owns only new things? I don't know that much about British educational system, especially in the eighties, but it probably wasn't that bad.

Harry doesn't look malnourished. He is naturally thin like his father. The glasses - they didn't have flexible frames in the eighties, I bet Harry had plastic frames. If they really broke frequently I can see the teachers understanding his guardians wouldn't want to buy new frames that often. Replacing them once a year when his growth required it should be enough.

[sunnyskywalker]

On the other hand, if he's getting punched in the nose regularly, that would probably show. Permanent black eyes, maybe. That should attract some attention. And while hand-me-downs do make sense, I think eventually someone would notice that if the Dursleys can afford all the shiny new things he always has, then surely they can afford to buy Harry at least one shirt that fits.

As far as malnourished, yeah, he's naturally skinny. But if the Dursleys lock him up and give him a can of soup per day often (like in CoS), he probably would be a bit malnourished. Although it mentions at some point that they gave him pocket money until he was about six, so maybe they treated him a little better during his early years and made sure he drank his milk and had lots of fruits and vegetables. Come to think of it, Dudley probably would have loved watching Harry have to eat spinach while he had ice cream instead, so maybe they fed him nutritious food as a punishment.

[oryx_leucoryx]

The locking up with a can of soup per day is a new development for COS, after the Dursleys realized Harry was willing to risk punishment from the Wizarding World to ruin Vernon's most important opportunity ever. Nobody in the Wizarding World thought Harry was unusually skinny in PS either. And it is mentioned in PS that his punishment for the escaped snake was the longest ever - and no mention of feeling starved - Harry knew how to sneak out of the cupboard for food. I'm not saying any kid should live like that, but it is easy to see how it wouldn't show to an outsider.

[sunnyskywalker]

The whole idea of them giving him money ever also doesn't jive with anything we see - supposedly he's always lived in the cupboard - so I really don't know what JKR's trying to do. I'm actually starting to think they did give him nutritious food as a punishment.

I guess it depends on how often he got punched in the nose, then, and even this chapter can't keep it straight whether it was often or almost never.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

"Although it mentions at some point that they gave him pocket money until he was about six, so maybe they treated him a little better during his early years and made sure he drank his milk and had lots of fruits and vegetables."

Does it ever mention how old Harry was when he first showed signs of magic? I seem to recall that Uncle Vernon said to Hagrid that they mistreated Harry to try and stamp the magic out of him, so if he started around age six, that might explain their worsening treatment of him.

[oryx_leucoryx]

He was already of school age when he regrew his hair, it isn't clear how old he was when he shrunk the sweater.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Of course, what every discussion of Dursley-abuse forgets is that ALL OF IT IS DUMBLEDORE'S FAULT, and the fault of the Ministry, who seems to have ignored their saviour for over a decade after he saved them all. Surely they could have sent the Muggles £1,000 a month or so, and promised to take him off their hands when he hit 11, and promised to fix any property damage or embarrassments he caused? But that wouldn't fit in with poor oppressed St Harry.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I don't see why the Dursleys didn't get any stipend from the Potter estate to raise Harry. I've mentioned this before and people have said it's because they're relatives but really, I don't know what that's got to do with it. Hagrid said something about their providing for Harry - where was this provision at the Dursleys'? Why didn't James and Lily provide for their kid between the age of a year and a half and eleven? James was rich and Gringotts exchanges wizard > muggle and v/v.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Of course, what every discussion of Dursley-abuse forgets is that ALL OF IT IS DUMBLEDORE'S FAULT/

Yes, now that we know that Dumbledore knew all about the Dursley's treatment of Harry, that decision really doesn't reflect too well on Albus. It's especially frustrating and galling, given that Dumbledore should really know better. Not just because he's supposed to be a wise old wizard, but because he's had personal experience with what happens with Muggles and magical children. Ariana was attacked by three Muggle boys because of her magic and was subsequently rendered insane. For his part, Tom Riddle grew up with Muggles and turned two of *them* insane. So, Dumbledore really should have known what a bad idea it was to leave Harry not only with Muggles, but with Muggles who hated magic. And now that we know that the whole "blood protection" excuse has a lot of holes in it, Dumbledore can't even use that as justification.

/and the fault of the Ministry, who seems to have ignored their saviour for over a decade after he saved them all./

The Ministry is incompetent to the point of being criminally negligent. Even after Bob Ogden saw for himself how horrible Marvolo and Morfin Gaunt were and how awful they were to Merope, the Ministry did not bother to send anyone back to the Gaunts' house to take care of Merope after her brother and father was sent away. She was left all by herself with hardly any options in poor conditions. Yet the Ministry never bothered to think of her again.

All of the inconsistencies with the Statue of Secrecy Laws could be viewed as symptoms of negligence as well. Underage wizards can get away with doing magic as long as they blame it on their parents. Meanwhile, wizards who have grown up solely with Muggles (Harry, Tom, Lily, Hermione, other Muggle-borns, etc.) not only have a greater responsibility to keep their magic secret (although apparently that never extended to Tom, as he was able to get away with practicing magic in the orphanage), but they have the possibility of growing up in an environment that ridicules, fears, and/or hates them, which can cause them to become emotionally unstable. The Ministry allows the parents of Muggle-born wizards to know about the wizarding world for the sake of their children, but that rule just assumes that the parents aren't terrible people who will make their children's lives miserable once they find out that they can do magic. What provisions have the Ministry made for children who are kicked out of their Muggle households for being wizards? Or do they just assume that any Muggle parent would be delighted to find out that their child possessed magic?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Regarding Merope, she was 18 so I can see the Ministry wouldn't think to intervene in her case.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

But why though? Even if Merope was legally an adult, Ogden clearly saw that she was abused, impoverished, and in poor health (mentally and physically). The dire circumstances that she was in weren't going to magically go away just because her father and brother were temporarily out of the picture. Even if she were forty years old, she merited help by her condition alone. I guess that the Ministry just isn't that big on social services.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Why the hell would any parents abuse their child just because he has some sort of special abilities?/

Carrie White's mother: Thou shalt not suffer a witch to live.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Because it's unusual, creepy, and sufficiently different from standard human expectations?

[oryx_leucoryx]

If your child started doing magic and you knew the myths, wouldn't you at least consider it?

Don't forget Harry grew up in the times in which the parents of Uri Geller ran him on a world tour for his spoon-bending 'ability'.

Is there reason to think Muggle-born wizards are more common among the less-educated or more religious-fanatical sectors of the British population? Because in late 20th century western civilization the reaction I'd expect is either skepticism (nah, there must be some other explanation how this happened) or lots of medical testing. Maybe ending with the conclusion that the parents are the crazy ones who need something for their hallucinations. Fear would be the reaction of those parents whose kids' magic did something really dangerous. Petunia's case is different because she was already familiar with magic, with its deliberate use, and the knowledge that magic had killed her sister.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Geller is older but he was still touring in the 70s so should be in the memories of people like the adult Creeveys etc. And at least in Israel he was followed by other 'wonderkids'.

It seems bad reactions to magic from modern Muggles comes from those familiar with deliberate use of magic - Petunia, Mr Finnigan, Tobias Snape, Riddle Sr.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

And anyway, they sent him on a world tour - no hiding him at all. And I bet the audience wasn't scared by his 'magical abilities' either.:)

Hell (no pun intended), I'm old enough to remember when Anton Szandor LeVey very publicly created "The Church of Satan" in San Francisco, and he immediately became a media sensation and the darling of the Hollywood "B" set...

His books were on the best-seller lists, and he garnered quite a lucrative income by public speaking tours and appearances on talk shows like Mike Douglas and Johnny Carson...

Never once was he threatened by mobs with burning torches, pitchforks, and/or stakes...

LOL

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

I may be making this up, but I thought in one of the books (or possibly interviews), it was said that a Ministry official went to visit Muggle parents when they gave birth to their first magical child? So presumably they'd be able to allay any doubts etc. the parents might have. Presumably they'd make a not if the parents seem likely to abuse the child (if they react particularly badly to the news, for example) and check up to make sure they're treating them OK.

[oryx_leucoryx]

No, the first time a family of a Muggle-born magical child would hear from the wizarding establishment was when someone from Hogwarts came with the letter. The Evanses hadn't had any such contact by the time Severus was spying on Lily.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Oh yes. Silly me.

Still, I think that seeing them when their child is born would be a good idea, in order to stop any of the abuse mentioned above.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Unless, of course, the Ministry (in keeping with Ron's comment that wizards have had to rely on Muggleborns and halfbloods to keep the population from dying out) is seeking to keep every wizard closely tied to the WW, and is desperate/idiotic/inhumane enough to figure that having Muggleborns grow up to distrust or dislike Muggles is a good way of shaping their future allegiances. We've yet to hear of a Muggle family being permitted to keep their Muggleborn child out of Hogwarts, and we know that the Ministry can *monitor* magical children in the Muggle world. We've also yet to hear of a Muggleborn *not* throwing the Muggle world over completely for the WW. What's to stop the Ministry from pulling a Dumbledore?

Pure speculation, and not a very nice idea, but it's not exactly out of tune with what JKR showed us.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

"- The manner in which Dursleys abuse Harry is so over the top, it is hard to take seriously."

Yeah, it's a shame, because it closes off some rather interesting possibilities. If the Dursleys' mistreatment of Harry had been more realistic -- if, say, they gave him all the material possessions he needed, but never ceased reminding him of how generous they were to do so, and always stopped short of treating him like a real member of the family -- then we'd be able to speculate on what effect his upbringing might have had on him (e.g., maybe it gave him low self-esteem and a consequent need to prove himself, explaining all the "I have to do this by myself" stuff). As it is, though, any real kid would have had severe developmental and social problems, and discussing Harry's childhood just draws attention to the absurdity of him being relatively normal.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Exactly. A good example of similar results on an abused child is Zuko in Avatar: the Last Airbender, but the closest match he has in HP is Snape, not Harry (Harry in fact verges somewhat towards Azula, but without the perfectionism).

[koi-no-soshan.livejournal.com]

Oh, definitely. It really is mystifying, the way Rowling portrays abuse in this series. There doesn't seem to be much awareness of what she's writing going on.

It's an oversimplification, but one could say that the most common reactions to abuse are to either turn aggressive and lash out at others, or turn meek...or become a bit of both. Harry doesn't seem to show either trait- he acts out in class a bit and behaves thoughtlessly, but there's none of the aggression of someone who expects to be hurt, or the cringing of someone who's learned to associate any anger/discipline directed at them to be threatening. But Harry just never seems afraid of the Dursleys or of others behaving aggressively towards him. I wouldn't expect any abused character to behave the way Harry does in Snape's class.

If they were more realistic, I think the Dursleys might be emotionally abusive very effectively, as you've said. And...I'd point out that Vernon seems to have a tendency for some pretty nasty rages. He's a large man- I could see him being physically threatening without ever actually touching Harry. That sort of thing is frightening as hell, and even if you know intellectually that you won't get hit, it still implants that fear.

Snape, Neville, and Merope are all more realistic (at least somewhat- I don't know that the fact of Neville's family members having tried to kill him to bring out his magic was really a true factor in his characterization) portrayals of abused characters. And then we have Harry. This is almost as perplexing as the non-existent magic system.

And oh, sorry, that ended up rather tl;dr >