deathtocapslock | Just thought I'd add my own two cents...

sweettalkeress.livejournal.com posting in

A little late to the party but enjoying every minute of it. I was thinking of Harry Potter plot holes and similar and suddenly I came across this little list online, and was amazed at how well it fit some of the complaints you guys make.

The list itself is criticizing another fantasy series by an unrelated author and so it may not be entirely compatible with Harry Potter, but most of the items on it are. A few of the juiciest items on the list are recapped below, but feel free to visit the original list to see if there’s anything I might not have mentioned.

*The Hero must not know jack shit about how the real world works. Instead he must rely completely on his mentors to tell him things and never question what they tell him. This is so that the reader can learn about things as he does in massive info-dumps.

Do I need to say more?

Evil is Evil. Good is Good. If someone is designated evil, then no matter what they do, it will be evil. If someone is designated good, then no matter what they do it will be good.

It’s Okay If A Gryffindor Does It, anyone?

The Hero is the only one who can save the world. If he doesn't it's DOOOOOMM!!

That’s why everyone sits around waiting for Harry to succeed rather than aiding the war effort on their own!

The Hero is the only one who fits the Prophecy. There must be a prophecy. Preferably with things like Chosen One, Prophecy, Future of the World Depends on It, Ancient Evil and Dark Lords.

Well, technically Neville fits the prophecy as well, but everything else checks out!

There must be a slave that the Hero frees who will become instantly loyal to him

Oh, hello, Dobby!

*Characterization is over-rated. In fact it's not needed at all. Stereotypes are all you need.

See Voldemort, personality and backstory!

The Hero is more important than anyone. Any other events that happen in his vicinity that would be potentially more interesting should be ignored in favor of whatever he's doing.

Much of DH is composed of this.

The climax doesn't have to be at all climatic or satisfying as long as the Hero looks good or does something impossible. Better if he does both.

The end of DH, oh, dear God, the end of DH!

That's about all I was planning on writing but you should check out the list and see for yourself just how well it fits here!

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

From:

elanor-x.livejournal.com

...I'll let the dozens of yaoi ships in the HP fandom (as well as the commentary in this LJ community ;P) speak for themselves.

I wouldn't. To prevent misunderstandings, I don't say JKR views homosexuality badly, just that yaoi ships don't necessary show the author's views. Let's see what she did put in the books. The only gay character she presented - DD - was in love with Hitler-equivalent, which destroyed his family, killed his little sister and scarred him for life. The only gay love she showed was of horrible destruction. JKR was coy when she talked about people being afraid of love in her interview. They (including very religious ones) aren't afraid of love, but rather of sex, which DD most likely never had. See? Many religious and/or anti-gay people want gays be like DD. Or celibate for life or married to a woman out of duty, like a haredi Jewish man I read about (I live in Israel), who gave interview to a big Israeli newspaper about how being gay doesn't prevent him from leading righteous life - married to a woman with numerous children. Gay sex is what frightens religious people &, alas, still too many heterosexual men. Making DD old & celibate made him not threatening to those people & their ideologies. Besides, DD is stereotypically gay:

[From the same sistermagpie's recap I quote below]
*Also he’s dressed in plum velvet and garish taste in clothing is a sign of being a good person. (In the books, that is. Fandom continues to try to hang tacky ruffles on the Malfoys and dress the Weasleys in vintage chic.)
*ETA: Oh jeez, do I even have to say it? I was possibly being too generous in thinking the garish taste was code for fun-loving, good person. Perhaps it was a clever way to say he was something else...

Saying after all books have already been sold that one of old characters was gay in a stereotypical way (& celibate) doesn't make one a cultural warrior, imo.

The antagonist must be so evil that he'd given Satan night terrors. ... Now get back to the villain raping that eight-year-old!/
Thankfully, Voldemort never stoops that low (at least in canon)

From http://community.livejournal.com/deathtocapslock/81144.html

*Mrs. Cole then wanders into that odd grey area of the HP books where some kind of sexual abuse is suggested by hinting at something dreadful happening when the two little children followed Tom into a cave, but if you bring it up the more hysterical fans would probably tell you you were sick. I admit it does add a nice little frisson to the proceedings!

From:

aikaterini.livejournal.com

/To prevent misunderstandings, I don't say JKR views homosexuality badly, just that yaoi ships don't necessary show the author's views./

Oh, yes, I know. I don't think that the homoerotic undertones of the books that the poster was talking about were deliberately put there by the author, either. It was just a joke because so many fans do think that there are homoerotic undertones in the Harry Potter books, even if JKR didn't deliberately think of them. Just look at how many "subtext" lines there are regarding Harry and Draco or Harry and Tom.

/The only gay love she showed was of horrible destruction./

Which is why it sends unfortunate implications about homosexuality, regardless of JKR's original intention.

/JKR was coy when she talked about people being afraid of love in her interview. They (including very religious ones) aren't afraid of love, but rather of sex, which DD most likely never had./

Agreed, many fundies even have the nerve to deny that homosexuals can feel love at all; they claim that it's all about the "nasty, sinful sex" (even though they're the ones who keep fixating on it. Projection, much?).

/Many religious and/or anti-gay people want gays be like DD. Or celibate for life or married to a woman out of duty..Gay sex is what frightens religious people &, alas, still too many heterosexual men. Making DD old & celibate made him not threatening to those people & their ideologies./

Also, it would make those people feel more comfortable with the idea that Dumbledore was a teacher and headmaster, two positions where he was in charge of children. Not that that stopped some people from accusing Dumbledore of raping Harry anyway. *sighs*

/Saying after all books have already been sold that one of old characters was gay in a stereotypical way (& celibate) doesn't make one a cultural warrior, imo./

Yes, and that's why many people were upset that JKR didn't have the nerve to directly state that Dumbledore was gay in the books. The media made it seem as if it were some step in the direction of gay rights, but there are already YA books that feature openly homosexual characters. Saying that Dumbledore being outed in an interview after his sexuality was never made plain in the books is some great moment for LGBT rights is like saying that a character who was revealed to be African-American in an interview after her race was never indicated in the books is some great stride for African-American rights.

As for that theory for what happened between Tom and the two children in the cave...to be honest, I never got that impression while reading the books. I just thought that he used some kind of magic to tamper with their minds and render them insane. I know that there have been a few disturbing cases of prepubescent children committing sexual abuse, but they're very rare and that's another reason why I never thought of it. I think that's also why I never thought that Ariana's treatment by the three Muggle boys was sexual abuse, either. I have to agree with the LJ user guardians_song in that it's kind of offensive to assume that all trauma has to be sexually based. I don't think that every single war veteran who has come home with PTSD suffered sexual abuse while overseas, for example. I don't know, that's just my opinion.

From:

oryx_leucoryx

Oh, yes, I know. I don't think that the homoerotic undertones of the books that the poster was talking about were deliberately put there by the author, either. It was just a joke because so many fans do think that there are homoerotic undertones in the Harry Potter books, even if JKR didn't deliberately think of them. Just look at how many "subtext" lines there are regarding Harry and Draco or Harry and Tom.

I think much of the homoeroticism that fans read into the text is the result of Rowling's word choice when describing the Slytherins/villains. IOW it comes from Rowling using implicitly sexual vocabulary for describing threatening or evil situations and actions.

Also, it would make those people feel more comfortable with the idea that Dumbledore was a teacher and headmaster, two positions where he was in charge of children. Not that that stopped some people from accusing Dumbledore of raping Harry anyway.

Well, I'd say the way Twinkly gave Harry special attention and eventually sent him to die looks predatory, even if it's non-sexual predation.

From:

merrymelody.livejournal.com

That, and Rowling seems to have a kind of dislike towards women, at least those who don't fit the specific ideals of womanhood (pretty, slim, wanting to marry and have children but also willing to be passive rather than sexually aggressive, superficially 'feisty' but generally submitting to a male authority figure) and since we're generally seeing things from Harry's POV, you get this sensual, detailed wordings about men and their physicality and for girls it's...nice hair.

From:

for-diddled.livejournal.com

Perhaps JKR is just a very heterosexual woman, to the degree that she has difficulty imagining what it must be like to fancy girls, hence the romance scenes being generally vague and relying on cliches. OTOH, she has a much better understanding of what it is that makes men attractive, hence her constant gushing about how handsome Tom Riddle is.

(Love your icon, BTW. :))

From:

sweettalkeress.livejournal.com

"Yes, and that's why many people were upset that JKR didn't have the nerve to directly state that Dumbledore was gay in the books."

JKR being a coward. Ironically a few days ago I watched a video in which someone said it was brave of her to kill beloved characters, in an attempt to compare her favorably to an (admittedly horrible and highly politically-incorrect) author who didn't have the heart to do so. Wierd stuff....