deathtocapslock | The Hogwarts House System, and its Connexion to the Politics of the Wizarding World

for-diddled.livejournal.com posting in

I’m not entirely sure that this is the best place to post this essay, but as it concerns issues which we frequently comment about here, I thought I might as well share it with you. As you may be able to guess from the title, it contains my thoughts on the House system and how it connects to the politics of the wizarding world. Enjoy! :)

Theoretically, at least, the Sorting Hat sorts students based upon their innate personalities; thus, brave students go into Gryffindor, clever ones into Ravenclaw, hard-working ones into Hufflepuff and cunning ones into Slytherin. It seems unlikely, however, that this is the only – or even the main – factor in the Hat’s choice. For a start, we know that certain families tend towards certain Houses (the Weasleys all seem to be Gryffindors, for example, whilst Draco’s ancestors were apparently all in Slytherin). Family members do not all share the same personality, however, and, if personality were the main factor in the Hat’s choice, we would expect virtually every family to have members in each House. Secondly, many people seem to have been sorted into the “wrong” House; Crabbe and Goyle, for example, never display any signs of cunning or ambition, and Albus Dumbledore seems more like a Ravenclaw or Slytherin than a Gryffindor. This would be more explicable if we take the view that the main factor in students’ House choices is, in fact, their own personal preferences. The wizarding world seems fairly corporatist, and family unity is highly prized (hence, for example, the Weasleys’ anger when Percy chooses to side with the Ministry over his father), so it seems quite likely that children would have a strong preference towards being sorted into their parents’ House; this would also explain the fact that students frequently seem not to display their House’s preferred qualities to any great degree.

Wizarding politics seems to be mostly split between those who support the rights of the old Pureblood families, and those who advocate greater inclusion of Muggleborns into wizarding society and politics. This division seems to be reflected in the school House system. Slytherin House’s reputation as the home of the rich and privileged and a bastion of Pureblood supremacy suggests that it is the House of choice for pro-Purebloods; Godric Gryffindor, on the other hand, was described by Rowling as “an enlightened fighter against anti-Muggle discrimination”, suggesting that, from the beginning, his House has been associated with the pro-Muggleborns. Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff don’t seem so strongly aligned; possibly they are both halfway houses (no pun intended), containing a mixture of pro-Purebloods and pro-Muggleborns, and aligning themselves with whichever political faction currently has the upper hand.

The fact that Slytherin and Gryffindor apparently clashed over whether or not to include Muggleborns suggests that this issue has been an important one in wizarding politics for many centuries. As society’s attitudes are never static, the balance of power will probably have swung like a pendulum from one side to another, with first the Pureblood Faction, then the Muggleborn, having the upper hand. At the time of the HP novels, it seems that the pro-Muggleborns are in control; not only does Mr. Borgin complain that “wizarding blood is counting for less and less everywhere”, the alignment of Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff Houses with Gryffindor against Slytherin would make more sense if the political winds were blowing in the former’s favour. It would also explain why Voldemort’s followers mostly seem to be from Slytherin House: rich aristocrats are usually the least likely to try and overthrow the established order, having as they do the most to lose and the least to gain; if, however, they’ve felt their power and influence being eroded over the past decades, and this process seems likely to continue for the foreseeable future, they might be tempted to rise up in rebellion in order to prevent this from happening.

It seems likely that most Dark Wizards come from whichever faction is currently losing. As of the late twentieth century, this means that Voldemort and most of his supporters are from Slytherin; when the Purebloods had the most influence, Gryffindor was probably the “dark” House. Which brings us onto a certain infamous line: in PS, when Harry is worried about being sorted into Hufflepuff, Hagrid consoles him by saying that Hufflepuff is better than Slytherin, adding that “There’s not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn’t in Slytherin.” At first glance, this seems ridiculous (what, so there were literally no Dark Wizards over the past millennium who were in Gryffindor, Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw?), but it may be that Hagrid’s definition of “goin’ bad” isn’t the same as most people’s. By way of analogy to Muggle dictators, Slytherin Dark Wizards would mostly be like General Franco, trying to return the wizarding world to a mythical golden age before their society was corrupted by foreign elements. Gryffindor ones, on the other hand, would be more like communist revolutionaries, trying to overthrow those in power to create a more egalitarian society. Hagrid’s blood status makes him a natural member of the Gryffindor faction, and it seems quite likely that he would sympathise with the aims, if not the methods, of these Gryffindor Dark Wizards. If this is the case, then it may be that he doesn’t consider any Gryffindor Dark Wizard to be bad – misguided, certainly, but not evil, unlike the Slytherins, who want to keep people like him down and deny them equal rights and opportunities. From his point of view, therefore, “All bad wizards are Slytherins” might be a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

The Gryffindor House-Slytherin House hostility also makes more sense when viewed through this lens. From the Gryffindors’ point of view, the Slytherins certainly are despicable: they’re seen as stupid and ugly (and yet, at the same time, as a dangerous threat, mirroring many real-world examples of prejudice), and virtually anything they do is considered bad by default, even when, in objective terms, they’re often little worse or even better than the Gryffindors (see, for example, practically any chapter in any Harry Potter book). This would be extremely over-the-top if it were a simple example of inter-House rivalry; if seen as a continuation of a centuries-old feud, however, it seems more explicable. (As mentioned above, wizarding society is very corporatist, so it seems quite likely that children would inherit their parents’ political views.) It also explains the hatred of the Malfoys for the Weasleys: as an old Pureblood family, the Weasleys would seem to be natural Optimates (indeed, it may be that they were until a few generations ago, which would explain why they are still Pureblood despite being so pro-Muggle), and thus would be considered class traitors by the Malfoys.

We aren’t really told the Slytherin view in the books, probably because Harry aligns his world-view almost entirely with the Gryffindors. This makes the Slytherins come across as ridiculous caricatures in places; if viewed through the lens of “Harry Potter as political propaganda”, however, their characterisation starts to make more sense.

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From:

karentheunicorn.livejournal.com

/At the time that Harry was left with the Dursleys (and indeed all through his school years) nobody but Dumbledore and later the Trio knew that clever, charming Tom Riddle had ANYTHING to do with Voldemort/

Okay, I didn't realize nobody else knew, I thought more people than just a few knew, especially after he went after the Potters, for whatever reason I was under the impression people would have found out or the info got out that he was once Tom. What about the Ministry or other OOTP?

I don't understand why that would have been keep that a secret?

/And Dumbledore kept the truth about Tom secret, by encouraging people to think of 'Voldemort' as his TRUE NAME/

But Dumbledore is determined to call him Tom in that meeting when Tom comes looking for the DADA job. That would have been...my guess is in the 70's but I don't know if anyone ever figured out when exactly that meeting happened. I seem to remember someone had said in the 70's - that was when he also supposedly hid the ravenclaw crown. Well, I'm guessing it would have more than likely before he started trying to dominate, so one would guess the early 70's when was when the first war started...at least I think.

/So drawing conclusions based on HARRY'S placement alone doesn't work/

Okay I still don't understand why keep Voldies real identity a secret.

And I can't remember this either, Did anyone else know where Harry was placed? Say someone like Snape or other people or was it just DD and obviously Minerva and Hagrid. What about the Lastrange and Bellatrix? Because it's said that they got put into Azkaban after Voldie fell becuse they attacked the Longbottoms and the reason they attacked the longbottoms never made sense to me. If I remember rightly they were said to have attacked the longbottoms because they were trying to find out what happend or where Voldemort went.

This never made sense because wouldn't Bellatrix have already been on the list of DE to hunt down? And I don't really understand why Bellatrix and other DE would go after the Longbottoms...

wait...Unless did they assume Voldemort had went after Neville instead of Harry?

But I think the attack on the Longbottoms was said to have happened a while after Voldie disappeared, it was made out to be time had passed, etc.

Anyway off topic but I guess it all sorta ties into me trying to understand why the Voldemorts true identity would have been kept a secret.

/But I think oryx is pointing out that the timeline you propose for WHEN they ought to have woken up about it (due to Tom) doesn't work./

I just dont' understand why it would have been a secret about Tom, thats why I am confused. Either way again with Dumbledore, I am just not figuring out what point he had in keeping it a secret when earlier he had been determined to call him Tom.

I'm wondering, was he already suspecting of the Horcuxes connection with Harry. I do remember having these discussions about when DD knew about the horcuxes.

Right after Lily died and DD is telling Snape, he insists to Severus that Voldemort would be back. I'm trying to figure out, how DD knew that? How did he make that assumption so quickly?

And be it Tom or anyone else, I still don't understand the idea of leaving magical children in a muggle orphanage, especially considering magic is supposed to be hidden from muggles. So, I still can't figure that out because...meh, I guess it really doesn't matter.

/Oryx's point about Hermione I think is based on the claim that Hermione makes in PS/SS that she was testing spells out after she got her wand but before she actually started Hogwarts./

When did she get her wand? Wouldn't it have been after she went shopping for it? there is a lot I've clearly forgotten. But in terms of her having a wand she wouldn't have got it at age 7, it would have been after her letter from Hogwarts right?

From:

for-diddled.livejournal.com

"Okay, I didn't realize nobody else knew, I thought more people than just a few knew, especially after he went after the Potters, for whatever reason I was under the impression people would have found out or the info got out that he was once Tom. What about the Ministry or other OOTP?"

You'd have thought that the Ministry would have known; given their general level of competence, however, it wouldn't be surprising if they didn't.

"I don't understand why that would have been keep that a secret?"

Well, no doubt Dumbledore had his own inscrutable reasons... Possibly having something to do with the fact that, if people feared Voldemort less (and it's easier to be scared of Big Bad Lord Voldemort than little Tommy Riddle), they might start getting dangerous ideas, e.g., that they can get along without Twinkly running everything.

"And I can't remember this either, Did anyone else know where Harry was placed? Say someone like Snape or other people or was it just DD and obviously Minerva and Hagrid. What about the Lastrange and Bellatrix? Because it's said that they got put into Azkaban after Voldie fell becuse they attacked the Longbottoms and the reason they attacked the longbottoms never made sense to me. If I remember rightly they were said to have attacked the longbottoms because they were trying to find out what happend or where Voldemort went."

The books are quite inconsistent on this point. On the one hand, random wizards walk up to Harry in the street to shake his hand; on the other, no DE ever tries to kill/capture Harry at home.

"This never made sense because wouldn't Bellatrix have already been on the list of DE to hunt down? And I don't really understand why Bellatrix and other DE would go after the Longbottoms...

wait...Unless did they assume Voldemort had went after Neville instead of Harry?"

I'd never thought of that, but it's actually quite a good idea.

"When did she get her wand? Wouldn't it have been after she went shopping for it? there is a lot I've clearly forgotten. But in terms of her having a wand she wouldn't have got it at age 7, it would have been after her letter from Hogwarts right?"

Right, but there'd still be a few weeks before her getting her wand and actually starting out for Hogwarts.

From:

majorjune.livejournal.com

And be it Tom or anyone else, I still don't understand the idea of leaving magical children in a muggle orphanage, especially considering magic is supposed to be hidden from muggles.

Because while there is a system for recording the births of magikal children in the UK, there seemingly is no corresponding system of recording the deaths of magikal people.

So even if someone was periodically noting the most recent updates to the Hogwarts Birth Book, all they would have seen was that Merope Gaunt had recently given birth to a son named Tom Riddle. There was no corresponding notice that Merope Gaunt had subsequently died, therefore leaving her son an orphan.

But in terms of her having a wand she wouldn't have got it at age 7, it would have been after her letter from Hogwarts right?

Correct. Hermione, the little eager beaver that she is, would have hectored her parents to get her all her supplies and books immediately upon receiving the Hogwarts letter, so she would have had at least a month, maybe even two, to have played around with spells before leaving for Hogwarts.

From:

mary-j-59.livejournal.com

Actually, if she received the Hogwarts letter on her 11th birthday, she would have had nearly a year to play around, since Rowling decided (eventually) to make her the oldest of the trio, and Harry the youngest.

From:

karentheunicorn.livejournal.com

/Actually, if she received the Hogwarts letter on her 11th birthday, she would have had nearly a year to play around, since Rowling decided (eventually) to make her the oldest of the trio, and Harry the youngest./

Ouu, now we know why she is so much better than everyone else! I never even thought about that and forgot she was a late Sept baby.

However that doesn't mean she got her letter in Sept. I was thinking the letters for the next years students all went out at the same time during the summer. So Minerva probably wouldn't have sent Hermione's letter till the same time she sent Harry's, Ron's, Draco's, Neville's, etc. etc. I don't think Hermione would have specially got her letter earlier than the rest of her class would she??

JKR might excuse that by saying that underage wand magic outside school by saying Hermione was covered because she had her letter. So if anyone were to show up and ask or question why there was magic coming out of a muggle house, they'd look and I guess see she was a Hogwarts student.

But it still doesn't explain anything really because if they let Hogwarts kids doing homework and Hermione doing spellwork with a wand outside of school then why is there a restriction on underage magic? I have never understood the restriction on underage magic. If you have been given a wand then what is the big deal? I is like the state is controling magical children instead of the parents. Do parents confiscate kids wands when they get home or something? I haven't seen that happen, so why is JKR putting this silly rule into effect. If the Ministry can track magic, then if a kid is doing something bad they'll get caught and if you really think about it are the kids any more wandhappy than some of the adults in the series.

So I am really not sure why JKR felt a need to put in a underage magic outside school rule in the book.

The wand is mainly used to focus the magic right? Magic people still have the ability to do some magic without a wand. We have seen some that have the ability to do wandless and wordless magic.

Some of the Kids seem to be able to do wandless magic before school. It is unfocused in some cases or an accident but there is no doubt from canon we have characters that are underage able to exhibit magic, such as:

teleportation/apparation (I think I remember younger Harry was getting bullied at school and somehow ended up on the school roof)
Bounching after a fall out a window (Didn't Nevilles uncle drop him out of a high window and he bounced?)
Object manipulation (Severus made a tree limb drop on petunia and Lily made a flower do a funky petal dance)
Flight/levetation without broom (Lily off a swing set)

Those are just some that I can remember and none of that is minor tiny insignifigant magic either, especially Harry reapearing on a roof and Lily practically flying.

That seems more powerful than some of the stuff they do with wands.

From:

sharaz-jek.livejournal.com

Maybe the more they use wands, the more disciplined their magic becomes and the harder it is to use wandless magic? And as for the restriction of underage magic, it's more likely that an inexperienced magic-user will get something catastrophically wrong, and though wizarding parents may be able to cope with it, Muggles wouldn't.

From:

karentheunicorn.livejournal.com

/Maybe the more they use wands, the more disciplined their magic becomes and the harder it is to use wandless magic? /

But we see adults do wandless magic don't we? hum, I can't remember now, wait, Wasn't Snape able to just look in Harry's eyes and see the potions book? Because I remember harry thinking he knew what Snape was going to do but couldn't stop him. It was when Harry had used the septemsepra spell on Draco. I don't remmeber Snape yelling out the spell or having a wand in hand.

Seems like there are a couple of wizards who get to a point of being powerful enough for certain magic they don't need a wand.

The spells kids do underage seem pretty powerful even though most of it is not controled - however 9 year old Lily seemed quite capable of controling her ability to 'float' off the swing. Didn't see do a flip to while dismounting?

Severus drops a big old branch on Penutia - enough to almost knock her down but it isn't really directed magic I don't think, it mostly seems reactionary to somethin. Like when harry was bullied it was magic helping him escape. Severus' seem to be a reaction to being emotionally hurt/attacked.

But the point is that magic seems just as powerful without a wand so I'm assuming it would register on whatever magical equipment the Ministry has to sense magic. Though maybe it is just setup to only track people with wands. But what happens when a wizard is powerful enough to not use a wand. Besides, did that magic tracking equipment or whatever the Ministry is using help them track down Voldemort? or is it only honed in on people from 11 to 17 =p

/And as for the restriction of underage magic, it's more likely that an inexperienced magic-user will get something catastrophically wrong, and though wizarding parents may be able to cope with it, Muggles wouldn't./

As opposed to a adult Voldemort going around killing people? Catastrophically seems a mild tern as to what adult magical people sometimes do.

I mean ya know where was the Ministry when the twins were trying to get Ron to do an unbreakable vow?

From:

condwiramurs.livejournal.com

Part of the issue is JKR's sloppy writing (having Lily and Tom both able to control their magic pre-Hogwarts after she tells us that young children's magic is *uncontrolled.). The reason pre-Hogwarts kids aren't subject to the Ministry's decree on underage magic is *because* it's normally uncontrolled magic at that stage.

Also, kids with wands who have started school are *not* technically allowed to actually cast spells during the breaks - only to do book work. Whatever scene in the movie you are thinking of with Harry under the blankets has got to be simply wrong if it does show him casting spells.

That said, the decree itself is not really *enforceable* for children born to wizarding families - since the Ministry can't apparently detect from afar which person cast the spell, just that magic was done. In a wizarding household there would be no way to distinguish a kid's spellcasting from the adults' without testing the wands, so essentially, wizarding kids get a free pass. Muggleborn kids however are hampered by the law, because they don't have the ability to pass off their spellcasting as done by adults in the area. Which has led some people to speculate that the Decree is actually a subtle bit of anti-Muggleborn legislation. Or at the very least a bit of legislation intended only for political appeal (to make it seem like 'See? We're making sure half-trained kids with wands aren't running around putting people in danger or breaking the Statute of Secrecy or anything like that!' without actually disrupting powerful all-wizarding (esp. pureblood) families' ability to give their children extra instruction at home in, ah, non-Hogwarts-approved material whenever they please. Muggleborns would just be collateral damage in this scenario.)

From:

sharaz-jek.livejournal.com

But we see adults do wandless magic don't we? hum, I can't remember now, wait, Wasn't Snape able to just look in Harry's eyes and see the potions book? Because I remember harry thinking he knew what Snape was going to do but couldn't stop him. It was when Harry had used the septemsepra spell on Draco. I don't remmeber Snape yelling out the spell or having a wand in hand.

As I said, harder. Not impossible. Snape, Voldemort, Dumbledore, and all Animagi are capable of some forms of wandless magic, but I get the impression that the average witch or wizard isn't.

As opposed to a adult Voldemort going around killing people? Catastrophically seems a mild tern as to what adult magical people sometimes do.

I mean ya know where was the Ministry when the twins were trying to get Ron to do an unbreakable vow?

Voldemort's shenanigans are what Aurors are for. Children don't merit the full force of the law, but do need to be controlled. As for Ron's near-Unbreakable Vow, the Wizarding World seems to place great confidence in a child's parents or guardians (see no one checking up on Harry and Neville's family getting away with all those lethal tests).

From:

oryx_leucoryx

But kids don't receive their letters on their birthdays unless they happen to have birthdays at the right time. The letters include the list of books, and that can't be finalized until the staff list is complete, ie until the DADA teacher of the year is hired (and every other vacancy filled).

Not sure what they did in OOTP when the DADA position was filled in late August, nor in DH.

From:

oryx_leucoryx

What about the Ministry or other OOTP?

If more of Albus' associates had known, Ginny would have known to suspect a diary by one TM Riddle.

The sad thing is, I don't think even Hagrid knows that the Slytherin prefect, later Head Boy, who 'helped' him hide his pet Acromantula (why was Aragog kept in the dungeons?) only to hand him in later, was Voldemort.

I'm wondering, was he already suspecting of the Horcuxes connection with Harry. I do remember having these discussions about when DD knew about the horcuxes.

Right after Lily died and DD is telling Snape, he insists to Severus that Voldemort would be back. I'm trying to figure out, how DD knew that? How did he make that assumption so quickly?

If he is truthful in OOTP when he tells Harry he placed him with the Dursleys because of blood-protection related to Lily's sacrifice then he knew that Voldemort was hit by his own AK. Which means he knew Harry's scar was not a curse scar. Yet he lets people (Minerva in PS, Fudge in GOF) assume that it is. The fact that Voldemort survived his own AK (which Albus could learn from Severus' Dark Mark but also is something he would believe because that's what the prophecy says, it foretells at least 2 Tom/Harry encounters) is proof that he had (at least) a Horcrux. I think by the moment Albus held Harry he knew what the scar was, or else why misdirect people about it?