[identity profile] for-diddled.livejournal.com posting in [community profile] deathtocapslock

I’m not entirely sure that this is the best place to post this essay, but as it concerns issues which we frequently comment about here, I thought I might as well share it with you. As you may be able to guess from the title, it contains my thoughts on the House system and how it connects to the politics of the wizarding world. Enjoy! :)

 

 

Theoretically, at least, the Sorting Hat sorts students based upon their innate personalities; thus, brave students go into Gryffindor, clever ones into Ravenclaw, hard-working ones into Hufflepuff and cunning ones into Slytherin. It seems unlikely, however, that this is the only – or even the main – factor in the Hat’s choice. For a start, we know that certain families tend towards certain Houses (the Weasleys all seem to be Gryffindors, for example, whilst Draco’s ancestors were apparently all in Slytherin). Family members do not all share the same personality, however, and, if personality were the main factor in the Hat’s choice, we would expect virtually every family to have members in each House. Secondly, many people seem to have been sorted into the “wrong” House; Crabbe and Goyle, for example, never display any signs of cunning or ambition, and Albus Dumbledore seems more like a Ravenclaw or Slytherin than a Gryffindor. This would be more explicable if we take the view that the main factor in students’ House choices is, in fact, their own personal preferences. The wizarding world seems fairly corporatist, and family unity is highly prized (hence, for example, the Weasleys’ anger when Percy chooses to side with the Ministry over his father), so it seems quite likely that children would have a strong preference towards being sorted into their parents’ House; this would also explain the fact that students frequently seem not to display their House’s preferred qualities to any great degree.

Wizarding politics seems to be mostly split between those who support the rights of the old Pureblood families, and those who advocate greater inclusion of Muggleborns into wizarding society and politics. This division seems to be reflected in the school House system. Slytherin House’s reputation as the home of the rich and privileged and a bastion of Pureblood supremacy suggests that it is the House of choice for pro-Purebloods; Godric Gryffindor, on the other hand, was described by Rowling as “an enlightened fighter against anti-Muggle discrimination”, suggesting that, from the beginning, his House has been associated with the pro-Muggleborns. Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff don’t seem so strongly aligned; possibly they are both halfway houses (no pun intended), containing a mixture of pro-Purebloods and pro-Muggleborns, and aligning themselves with whichever political faction currently has the upper hand.

The fact that Slytherin and Gryffindor apparently clashed over whether or not to include Muggleborns suggests that this issue has been an important one in wizarding politics for many centuries. As society’s attitudes are never static, the balance of power will probably have swung like a pendulum from one side to another, with first the Pureblood Faction, then the Muggleborn, having the upper hand. At the time of the HP novels, it seems that the pro-Muggleborns are in control; not only does Mr. Borgin complain that “wizarding blood is counting for less and less everywhere”, the alignment of Ravenclaw and Hufflepuff Houses with Gryffindor against Slytherin would make more sense if the political winds were blowing in the former’s favour. It would also explain why Voldemort’s followers mostly seem to be from Slytherin House: rich aristocrats are usually the least likely to try and overthrow the established order, having as they do the most to lose and the least to gain; if, however, they’ve felt their power and influence being eroded over the past decades, and this process seems likely to continue for the foreseeable future, they might be tempted to rise up in rebellion in order to prevent this from happening.

It seems likely that most Dark Wizards come from whichever faction is currently losing. As of the late twentieth century, this means that Voldemort and most of his supporters are from Slytherin; when the Purebloods had the most influence, Gryffindor was probably the “dark” House. Which brings us onto a certain infamous line: in PS, when Harry is worried about being sorted into Hufflepuff, Hagrid consoles him by saying that Hufflepuff is better than Slytherin, adding that “There’s not a single witch or wizard who went bad who wasn’t in Slytherin.” At first glance, this seems ridiculous (what, so there were literally no Dark Wizards over the past millennium who were in Gryffindor, Hufflepuff or Ravenclaw?), but it may be that Hagrid’s definition of “goin’ bad” isn’t the same as most people’s. By way of analogy to Muggle dictators, Slytherin Dark Wizards would mostly be like General Franco, trying to return the wizarding world to a mythical golden age before their society was corrupted by foreign elements. Gryffindor ones, on the other hand, would be more like communist revolutionaries, trying to overthrow those in power to create a more egalitarian society. Hagrid’s blood status makes him a natural member of the Gryffindor faction, and it seems quite likely that he would sympathise with the aims, if not the methods, of these Gryffindor Dark Wizards. If this is the case, then it may be that he doesn’t consider any Gryffindor Dark Wizard to be bad – misguided, certainly, but not evil, unlike the Slytherins, who want to keep people like him down and deny them equal rights and opportunities. From his point of view, therefore, “All bad wizards are Slytherins” might be a perfectly reasonable thing to say.

The Gryffindor House-Slytherin House hostility also makes more sense when viewed through this lens. From the Gryffindors’ point of view, the Slytherins certainly are despicable: they’re seen as stupid and ugly (and yet, at the same time, as a dangerous threat, mirroring many real-world examples of prejudice), and virtually anything they do is considered bad by default, even when, in objective terms, they’re often little worse or even better than the Gryffindors (see, for example, practically any chapter in any Harry Potter book). This would be extremely over-the-top if it were a simple example of inter-House rivalry; if seen as a continuation of a centuries-old feud, however, it seems more explicable. (As mentioned above, wizarding society is very corporatist, so it seems quite likely that children would inherit their parents’ political views.) It also explains the hatred of the Malfoys for the Weasleys: as an old Pureblood family, the Weasleys would seem to be natural Optimates (indeed, it may be that they were until a few generations ago, which would explain why they are still Pureblood despite being so pro-Muggle), and thus would be considered class traitors by the Malfoys.

We aren’t really told the Slytherin view in the books, probably because Harry aligns his world-view almost entirely with the Gryffindors. This makes the Slytherins come across as ridiculous caricatures in places; if viewed through the lens of “Harry Potter as political propaganda”, however, their characterisation starts to make more sense.

 


From: [identity profile] karentheunicorn.livejournal.com
She says on the train that all the spells she tried worked, which means she was doing wandwork between the time she got her letter (late July?) and September 1st with no interference

It's another example of JKR not knowing her own story. I mean, some of these are mistakes anyone can make but sometimes I wonder if she goes in later and adds stuff because people ask questions.

Like I would ask her: How can Hermione be so effective with magic and was never around it but Ron is as stupid as Harry but should have seen most of this simple magic on a daily basis already.

It's like maybe she writes a chapter and realizes, opps people are gonna question this so, I'll have hermione say she practices. Okay, books finished off to the editor.

One would assume a good editor would say, hay you've got Hermione saying she did wand magic outside of school but later you have here that it's prohibited for the kids to do that.

It's almost like someone should have caught that, it qualifies almost as a fanfic quality sort of error. And thats not a slight against fanfics in no way I'm just saying this is stuff a good beta will call you on and you'd expect people making $$ at this would find stuff like that.


Does anyone remember the flack that happened with the Half-Blood Prince book. Where some of Dumbledore's speech was apparently different in the USA version - I think something was left in it that was supposed to be taken out. I think it was the line about Dumbledore talking about hiding the Malfoy and that nobody would look for them if everyone thought they were dead (not exact quote but it went something like that)

Though not exactly sure if that was the paragraph, sentance that was left in accidently. But it kind of really makes you wonder how much of JKR's book is actually her book and how much of it is pieced together by bad editors and WB. Because after a certain point it makes you wonder how much the movies and movie people might have influenced her writing. I'm not suggesting that someone came in and wrote it for her, but she became involved with the movie stuff even before her series was finished.

Even if she says there was no influence and that she 'knew' the story and everything about it from the beginning - I still have to sort of question that and wonder if she's being 100% truthful in how she actually wrote the story.

And I'm sorta rambling now so I have multiple thoughts on Hermione suggesting she did magic outside of school - I just believe this is something JKR didn't think about while writing or she went in later to correct it when she realized how goofy it seems for Hermione to be so exceptionally good at magic but then didn't think about what adding that line meant to her whole 'can't do magic outside school law'
From: [personal profile] oryx_leucoryx
One would assume a good editor would say, hay you've got Hermione saying she did wand magic outside of school but later you have here that it's prohibited for the kids to do that.

She sort of works around this at the end of PS, when the kids get notes warning them not to use magic over the holidays, and Fred says he always hoped the school would forget to do so. The letter the kids get before 1st year has no such warning, so Hermione started practicing the moment she had a book and a wand, but after being at Hogwarts she learned she was not supposed to do magic outside school. So maybe the Ministry starts its monitoring after the kids start school or something. But then in DH it turns out kids are allowed to be educated at home too, so do such kids get monitored or not? (Maybe it doesn't matter, because they obviously have magical adults around them, but what if they sneak out of home and go into a Muggle environment - would anyone notice them doing magic?)
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
Yeah, I'm confused. So maybe it's a charm that's activated when they go to Hogwarts because it's assumed kids would only start practising magic after their first year (but 'coz Hermione only just missed out on starting, they didn't account for her finding out she has magic, buying her books and her wand and then having a year with nothing better to do than practice so she can prove herself).

what if they sneak out of home and go into a Muggle environment - would anyone notice them doing magic?

Well, wasn't that what started the upset in OotP? Harry was...at the park, I think, when the Dementors came and he cast his Patronus? And that was picked up? So it must've been the Trace, then. (before we even knew there was a Trace) Except it picks up magic not only done by the individual it's put on, but also by those around them, and nobody squawks over Tonks and Moody doing magic around him at Privet Drive, so IDK.

But if the Trace works the way I think it does, then yes, anywhere they do magic would be picked up. I think?

in DH it turns out kids are allowed to be educated at home too, so do such kids get monitored or not?

I think this is the inequality between purebloods/halfbloods and muggle-born kids. Because it's waved off if there's magic around the former group (it could be the adults around them that's doing the magic, so they have carte blanche to do whatever the want) whereas that's obviously not the case with muggle-borns, so they're not allowed to do any magic at all.

Maybe this system was set up purely because wizarding kids have adults around them that can fix any negative consquences of spells gone awry, whereas muggle-born kids don't have that safety net and worse, if things go wrong, they could expose the wizarding world to the muggles. So it's not deliberately to discriminate against them, but a safety precaution.
From: [identity profile] majorjune.livejournal.com
(but 'coz Hermione only just missed out on starting, they didn't account for her finding out she has magic, buying her books and her wand and then having a year with nothing better to do than practice so she can prove herself).

Okay, I'm having a problem with the concept of Hermione getting her Hogwarts notice almost a year before starting there...where does it say that in canon?

Granted, she would have turned 11 in mid-September 1990, but there's nothing that says she got her Hogwarts letter then; I always thought all the letters for the new students went out in July of the year they would start attending, so she wouldn't have gotten the Hogwarts letter until July 1991.

It still would have given her 6 or more weeks to practice, but I just don't buy the theory that she got the letter back in September 1990

Re: Hermione's letter

Date: 2010-10-23 12:22 am (UTC)
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
Argh! You got me! Damn it, there are some things that creep into my head from fanon and won't let go! I didn't even think twice about it, that's how ingrained it is in my head! *facepalm*
From: [identity profile] borg-princess.livejournal.com
It's another example of JKR not knowing her own story. I mean, some of these are mistakes anyone can make but sometimes I wonder if she goes in later and adds stuff because people ask questions

YES. I totally think that's the case- she tries to be too clever and winds up screwing over her own story and characters. (My worst moment was with what she had Hermione do to her parents- like, who ever spends any time thinking about the Grangers? Nobody would've cared! But then she decides to address it by having Hermione just mentally violate her parents, okay then)

How can Hermione be so effective with magic and was never around it but Ron is as stupid as Harry but should have seen most of this simple magic on a daily basis already

THANK YOU. I tried to raise this question on the HP common room and people called me racist? IDEK! My point was that Ron acts a lot dumber than he ought considering he's a native of the wizarding world and should know more about magic and should know about Muggle-repelling and Unplottable charms and international schools like Durmstrang, etc. and it makes no sense to have him clueless on things that belong to his world. I always wanted Ron to be the bridge between Harry & Hermione and the wizarding world and clue them in, but it's Hermione, the newcomer, who's inexplicably Exposition Girl.

One would assume a good editor would say, hay you've got Hermione saying she did wand magic outside of school but later you have here that it's prohibited for the kids to do that.

I'm just saying this is stuff a good beta will call you on and you'd expect people making $$ at this would find stuff like that.


Considering that she never re-reads her own books and that she got rid of her editors halfway through the series and wasn't paying much attention to them before...no wonder it's all messed up.

I just believe this is something JKR didn't think about while writing or she went in later to correct it when she realized how goofy it seems for Hermione to be so exceptionally good at magic but then didn't think about what adding that line meant to her whole 'can't do magic outside school law'

Entirely plausible. *nodnod*

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