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deathtocapslock
* Collin’s really acting like an obsessive stalker here. I wonder if that’s how Harry appeared to Draco in HBP?
* Ron’s malfunctioning wand actually sounds quite dangerous, but nobody thinks it might be a good idea to replace it. Although OTOH having a lax attitude towards safety seems to be one of the few things about the WW that seems consistent throughout the books (they’ll show it again when Percy tries to stop people using dangerous cauldrons), so maybe I should be thankful that it isn’t just one of these things that changes whenever the plot demands.
* I assume that JKR’s just forgotten to mention the try-outs that every Quidditch team apparently does each year.
* I’m just going to tune out while Harry recaps the rules of Quidditch for Collin.
* Everyone’s not bothering to pay attention to Wood’s new tactics. Remember kids, teamwork’s for suckers! You just do what you want to do!
* Wood is still upset over Gryffindor losing last year. Serves him right for being too thick to have a reserve Seeker, IMHO.
* Note how Wood’s first reaction upon seeing Collin is to jump to the conclusion that he’s a Slytherin spy. Not that he’s in any way biased against Slytherin, or anything like that.
* Remember chaps, looking like a troll = evil. Part-giant, OTOH, = misunderstood woobie. Even though trolls don’t really seem much worse than giants.
* There are no girls on the Slytherin team, just to remind everyone that they’re sexist, and therefore evil. JKR hates sexism, which is why she took care to include so many liberated, independent-minded women in the novels.
* Wood’s “spitting with rage” now. Christ, Oliver, calm down, it’s not the end of the world. Maybe the Gryffindor and Slytherin teams could just play a friendly, or something.
* “Aren’t you Lucius Malfoy’s son?” says Fred, looking at Draco with dislike. Remember kids, it’s wrong to judge people based on their family.
* Is it possible to smirk so broadly that your eyes are “reduced to slits”, or is Draco actually grinning with happiness here?
* I don’t think that Malfoy did buy his way onto the team. For a start, Seeker is the most (i.e., only) important position in the game, and I don’t think that flying on better brooms would compensate for having an inferior Seeker. Secondly, he’s on the team for at least three years, when the Slytherins could easily have ditched him as soon as they’d got the brooms. They’d even have had a good excuse after losing that Quidditch match in “The Rogue Bludger”.
* Lucius seemed like quite a harsh, demanding father when we saw him in Borgin and Burke’s, IMHO, so the thought that he’s pleased daddy enough to make him buy new brooms for the team is probably making Draco grin even more.
* I bet he looks adorable in this scene.
* Now I can’t stop thinking of Lauren Lopez in A Very Potter Sequel. “Don’t worry, daddy, you’ll love me after this! I’ll catch that Snitch, mark my words!”
* Just thought it interesting to note that Malfoy wasn’t involved in the conversation until Ron brought him in. It’s not like he was strutting up and down, boasting about his new broom, or anything like that.
* Hermione’s the one who starts with the personal insults. Really, I think that the good [sic] guys are acting worse than the baddies here.
* If the theory that Draco’s really just happy because he’s finally made his daddy proud is right, then implying that he’d just bought his way onto the team is probably one of the most offensive things Hermione could say. Unsurprisingly, he responds with one of the most offensive things that he could say.
* Draco calls Hermione a “Mudblood”, despite the fact that she’s a Muggleborn, and therefore cannot be expected to know what it means, suggesting that either she’s upset him so much he’s not thinking straight, or that he wants to keep face in front of his teammates by responding to her insults, but at the same time doesn’t want to upset her. If the latter, it could be evidence for some kind of D/Hr ship.
* JKR seems to be expecting us to go “ZOMG Draco’s an evil racist!” suggesting that she’s forgotten why exactly it is that racism’s considered so wrong. I don’t think it’s just that you’re looking down on people for the way they were born – if it were, then jokes about stupid blondes would be considered as bad as jokes about stupid black people. Rather, it’s wrong because minorities often suffer from discrimination (and in many cases have suffered from it even more in the relatively recent past), and racist language helps to reinforce and normalise the prejudiced attitudes which lead to such discrimination. Because we haven’t really see people suffering from anti-Muggleborn prejudice, it’s hard to think of “Mudblood” as a particularly serious insult.
* This, BTW, is why I disagree with people who say things like “Rowling uses the Harry Potter books to teach children not to be racist.” If she were really doing that, she’d show how racism affects people’s lives (cf. To Kill a Mockingbird). What she’s actually doing is taking real racism and using it in lieu of actual worldbuilding and characterisation. We already know that racism is wrong, and we think Draco’s a bad person because his use of the term “Mudblood” is superficially similar to real-life examples of racism; we don’t learn about how racism is bad from its effects on HP characters, because it doesn’t really have any.
* Anyway, back to the actual story…
* Once again, the good guys are the first to use force. Why am I not surprised?
* I think it’s sweet the way Flint dives in front of Malfoy to stop him being attacked. The Slytherins often seem to look out for each other the most (see also Lucius patting Snape on the back when he’s first Sorted). Contrast this with the Gryffindors in PS, who refuse to speak to Harry, Hermione, Ron or Neville after they lose some House Points.
* What’s this, one of the good guys has suffered some negative consequences as a result of attacking someone else? Hold on while I go make a note of this in my diary.
* Again with the clothes! Lockhart’s wearing robes of “palest mauve” today. Harry’s really starting to look rather gay now; given JKR’s fondness for stereotypes (viz. the Finnegans) and inability to write a decent romance (chest monster!), I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find her way of showing homosexuality would be having someone spend all their time looking at their crush’s clothes.
* Note how Hagrid doesn’t remonstrate with Ron for trying to curse Malfoy. Clearly he’s a responsible adult and an excellent candidate for a prestigious teaching position.
* I know Hagrid doesn’t like Lockhart, but he really should know better than to undermine him like that in front of his pupils.
* So the jinx on DADA has been in place for what, forty or so years now? And people are only just starting to twig? I know wizards are slow learners, but really…
* Also, couldn’t Dumbledore find ways to either discover how Riddle jinxed the position and undo it somehow, or to get around it, such as hiring two teachers who each teach on alternate years or getting rid of DADA and replacing it with a class which is functionally indistinguishable but has a different name (“battle magic”, perhaps?).
* I think that this scene was one which the film actually did better than the books. Yes, having Hermione getting all upset may not have been fully logical, but it at least made Draco look like a hurtful bully rather than an eccentric crank. It also suggested that someone might have called Hermione that before, hinting at actual day-to-day anti-Muggleborn prejudice, which is more than the books ever managed to do.
* “Maybe it was a good thing yer wand backfired.” Wait, is Hagrid glad that Ron got to be on the receiving end in the hope that he’ll be less likely to curse people in future? No, of course not, he’s worrying that Ron might otherwise have got in trouble.
* Hagrid comes across as so judgemental when he says “’Spect Lucius Malfoy would’ve come marchin’ up ter school if yeh’d cursed his son.” Clearly, caring about your children being attacked is a sign of great evil. Good guys know that being randomly hexed is what makes a man out of you.
* Although Lucius doesn’t seem to have done much when Draco was hexed into unconsciousness on the train (twice!), which probably foreshadows the Redeemed!Malfoys situation at the end of DH.
* Hagrid’s been breaking the law to make his pumpkins grow faster. Which couldn’t possibly be dangerous in any way, oh no.
* Suddenly, Draco’s gossip about him getting drunk and setting his bed on fire looks awfully plausible.
* Everybody hates Filch, which is entirely understandable, given all the times he complains about having to clean up the mess children make and, erm, gives them detention for breaking the rules. Yep, entirely understandable.
* So how does Parseltongue work, then? ’Cause surely Lockhart ought to have heard it, even if he didn’t understand what it was saying? Or is it a sort of telepathy? But then Ron managed to speak it in DH…
* Awfully convenient the way the basilisk goes around describing its evil plan to itself, isn’t it? Do basilisks just have really bad memories, and need to keep repeating their plans to themselves in case they forget?
* Part of me can’t help but feel pleased that Ron vomited slugs over that trophy. Maybe next time he’ll think twice before hexing someone. Or not.
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no subject
Date: 2010-10-24 08:01 am (UTC)Of course, this is less me defending Rowling and more my resentment of the common assumption that smart girls can't be hot-blooded. When it comes to matters of the heart, we can be just as crazy as anyone else.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-24 08:53 am (UTC)That's a nice way of putting it.
Well, that's certainly a vote for the 'Hermione going bonkers is realistic' position. I still think it makes for lousy reading and entertainment though. And a bad role model to boot.
I wasn't an expert on teenage girls when I was a teenage boy, let alone now, but I don't recall any smart girls going 'crazy' back then. As a dense sometimes oblivious male maybe I would have missed a lot of that, though. I think I'm safe in saying that some smart girls might go crazy, some won't. So Rowling didn't err in making Hermione go crazy ... it was just a path that was distasteful and unsatisfying reading; for me at least.
When it comes to matters of the heart, we can be just as crazy as anyone else.
Heh. :-) But is it fun to read, smart girls acting crazy? I vote no! But I'm not a member of Rowling's target readership.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-24 11:07 am (UTC)The thing about Hermione and Ginny is that they each keep focusing on the same guy for seven years, which is not realistic at all. I had several crushes during high school. Disinterest will, sooner or later, make even a stupid smart girl search elsewhere. That's why the Potterverse seems so Determinist in the romance department - you're fated to one guy and, once you realize it, you can't switch just because he's a blind fool.
It can be very fun to see smart girls acting crazy. It's the dichotomy between the serious, studious view seen by most of the world and the seething cauldron bubbling under the surface.
One other thing about smart girls that makes me wonder about Rowling's characterizations - elsewhere, maybe in another post here, I've read, and agreed with, statements saying that it seems you can either be book-smart or social smart but not both. It's like a scale - the smarter you are, the less socially adept you are. Hermione, though, seems to be written as both, at least in the author's pov. I'm thinking specifically about GoF and the Yule Ball but the correspondence with Krum is on-going and, I assume, socially correct. The advice given to Ginny could be another point or, it could be Hermione reading pop teen mags advice columns out of school. Either way, she seems to know her way around social issues, which seems off-kilter to me.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-24 11:46 am (UTC)I just had two. But I was pretty quiet about them, I didn't flip my lid like Hermione. Mind you, I wasn't as smart as her either. :-) :-(
That's why the Potterverse seems so Determinist in the romance department - you're fated to one guy and, once you realize it, you can't switch just because he's a blind fool.
Exactly. I call that Rowling's 'simplistic' romantic model, partially at least due to her 'tunnel vision', which lent itself to a lot of her amateurish writing IMO. DH in particular seems to have been written with the end goal firmly in view and the characters all pushed in that one direction, no detours or diversions permitted. Points in the story where a more polished author would have had the characters explore options, see alternatives, discuss other paths, are just missing in DH ... with copious plot holes occupying the vacant areas.
Anyway, it's the same story with Rowling's OBHWF. She set out her 'simplistic' everyone-gets-a-soul-mate jigsaw pattern back before she started and lo! As you say, it was as deterministic as clockwork. Ginny fixates on Harry. Hermione - if you're happy to adopt the full R/Hr line - fixated on Ron. And Ron on Hermione. It's no wonder we find the whole thing stilted and artificial.
I might adopt your 'deterministic' description in the future, if you don't mind. :-)
It can be very fun to see smart girls acting crazy.
But not under Rowling's stewardship. Hermione was *nasty*. She *used* McLaggen to make Ron jealous. She conjured killer canaries that bit and tore at Won Won's bloody flesh. She cursed a fellow student. Ugh. Big reasons why Rowling's Hermione-goes-crazy sub-story just failed to entertain or impress me at all.
But I found Rowling's romances overall to be rather ugly, seeing as how she employed jealousy as almost the only indicator of 'true love'. A green monster to accompany Harry's chest monster. But Rowling honestly seems to think that jealousy is cute and wholesome and wonderful to see. Ginny was jealous of anything female that got close to Harry in half the scenes in which she appeared in DH and yet we're begged to believe that she's his 'soul mate'?!?
Either way, she seems to know her way around social issues, which seems off-kilter to me.
She certainly did. Krum, and giving Ginny advice as to Harry's heart, as you say. Then there was the continual analysis of Cho and her feelings towards Harry in OotP. She saw Harry's burgeoning attraction to Ginny in DH. She clicked immediately as to why he was attracting fangirls as a 'fanciable' bloke in HBP. She perceived Ron's jealousy in GoF. No doubt there are other cases.
Thanks for mentioning that; I do think that's another reason why Hermione's inversion from smart to 'crazy' girl in HBP comes over as just plain wrong, but I hadn't thought to mention it before. I do think that lends more credence to why I think her characterisation was just broken in the sixth tome. Maybe smart girls can go crazy, as you and detritius have maintained. But Rowling's portrayal of this with Hermione was just too artificial to feel right.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-24 12:03 pm (UTC)Hey. Even monsters need 'shipped, too! ;)
Use whatever you like. Since I'm totally holding hands with the theory, and since it isn't mine-all-mine (I've seen it mentioned plenty of places), it's yours to explore and build upon. Isn't that good science? :D
The canaries could have been comical except they drew blood. The McLaggen hex could have worked if we'd seen more of McLaggen so we'd enjoy him being set to rights. The Marietta thing could have been temporary and warned in advance but, it wasn't. That's Rowling, not Hermione.
And, on the Ron Quidditch try-out, if Ron had had to fight for the position it would have been more interesting and a character-building moment for Ron. Alternately, if he'd found out about the hex and gotten upset with Hermione, that would have been a good moment, too, since it would mean that principles rather than Quidditch had come to mean more to him. This R/Hr thread is disgusting since it's built upon both of them feeling privileged enough to break the rules when everyone else should abide by them - see Ron hexing the driving tester in that nasty epilogue, Hermione hexing McLaggen, Hermione cursing Marietta, widen to any Friend of Harry hexing Slytherins and ganging up on them 4-1 and so on and so on.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-24 09:01 pm (UTC)This is what makes Hermione's actions under the influence of love so abhorrent to me, that she seems to lose her moral compass and is willing to express her "love" through actively trying to harm others... not that deciding on her own to harm others is new for Hermione. She has, after all, stolen, cheated for others, kidnapped, imprisoned and blackmailed, mutilated for revenge, lured others into danger... I suppose the thing that prevents us from condemning her is that she did these things for "the greater good," not for the selfish motive of "love."
My theory is that Hermione's underhanded and petulant actions foreshadow the revelation of Dumbledore's loss of morality (as we were told, not shown) when he fell for Grindlewald and basically decided he had the right to do whatever he wanted to fulfill their world-conquering plans... not that Dumbledore ever lost that feeling of being privileged to do whatever he wanted to others. But, in the Grindlewald case he was wrong because he did things for the desperation of romantic love, not out of his usual superiority complex, and he temporarily became a racist! and called it the greater good!
Rowling seems to have a tremendous distrust of romantic love, which isn't necessarily a bad thing. On the other hand, she does push the idea of soul mates, which is romantic in the extreme. A confused message.
Given how Hermione seems to expect so little of Ron, I am even suspicious of romantic love as her motive. I think Ron's her alternative to having to grow a conscience and become celibate like Dumbledore, her solution to staying part of Harry's life, which is fundamental to her self-worth, and her solution to fulfilling her destiny as a Rowling woman.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-25 12:00 am (UTC)But I think we can all agree that she turned *nasty* in HBP; there was a distinct change in her (bad) deeds. Because they were performed for the 'selfish motive of "love"', as you say. And that stinks.
My theory is that Hermione's underhanded and petulant actions foreshadow the revelation of Dumbledore's loss of morality ... for the desperation of romantic love
That's interesting.
I didn't see any homosexual love between Dumbledore and Grindlewald in the book and strictly speaking it's not canon. But I appreciate the parallel. Hermione does bad things out of 'love', Ron commits sins of lesser scope ('using' Lavender, picking horrible fights with Hermione; making her cry at the Yule ball). And now your example of Dumbledore.
On the other hand, she does push the idea of soul mates, which is romantic in the extreme. A confused message.
Oh you bet. But the 'soul mate' nonsense is further interview silliness, and completely unsupported by what she actually wrote. Rowling's utterances on that score are fascinating when analysing the author's own character and motivations - she's been quite defensive on the 'soul mate' tripe, repeating it at least twice off her own bat, "I really do see them as soul mates, really truly!" - but it's nowhere in what she wrote. There is absolutely no way I can be convinced that the Ginny who was jealous of anything female who got close to her ex-boyfriend in DH was of 'soul mate' calibre. 'Soul mates' *trust* their mates, yes? That seems a fairly basic criterion. Which Ginny and H/G failed miserably.
I think the 'soul mate' confusion is just part and parcel of Rowling's self-aggrandising post-publication propaganda, one of the many occasions where she's tried to retroactively attach deeper meaning and significance to her books, even if the hooks are almost non-existent. That or just exposing the gulf between her mental picture of what she wanted to write - soul mates - and what she actually put down on paper.
Given how Hermione seems to expect so little of Ron, I am even suspicious of romantic love as her motive. I think Ron's her alternative to having to grow a conscience and become celibate like Dumbledore, her solution to staying part of Harry's life, which is fundamental to her self-worth, and her solution to fulfilling her destiny as a Rowling woman.
Heh (to the last part; 'her destiny as a Rowling woman'.) :-)
Hermione did show human/warm feelings towards Ron; hidden among all the numerous fights, rants and tears there were two occasions where she favoured him with a deep and meaningful glance. One was in OotP, even, before R/Hr materialised as the parody teenage romantic warfare in book 6.
And no, she showed her conscience several times; viz the dilemma over what to do about Griphook's demand for the sword, for example - that was a perfect example of how completely mismatched she and Ron were, with her saying they shouldn't lie to the goblin and Ron completely deceitful. Did she insist that they pay for their groceries during the infinite camping trip, or is that fanon? Anyway, I'm sure she showed a conscience multiple times, so I think your theory, as stated, is too extreme to fit the facts. "Staying part of Harry's life", sure, but that fate was part of Rowling's simplistic little OBHWF jigsaw (the poor girl).
no subject
Date: 2010-10-25 01:05 am (UTC)Marietta was still disfigured in HBP. She had to hide her shame under a balaclava. This was the first inkling to me that Hermione's character was going to turn into something I didn't even recognize. I thought the hex was temporary and I was willing to let it go, but when a year later, the girl still has facial scars... *shakes head*
There is absolutely no way I can be convinced that the Ginny who was jealous of anything female who got close to her ex-boyfriend in DH was of 'soul mate' calibre.
Her jealousy over an 11 year old girl. *eyeroll* Imagine Harry spending the rest of his life under her eagle eye, ranting and raving any time a woman innocently glances in his direction.
I don't know if Ron was 'using' Lavender just to strike back at Hermione. I haven't read the book in forever, but he was with her for several months, no? Surely if he just wanted to hurt Hermione, that would've been sufficiently accomplished after a week? If he deliberately stayed with Lavender all that time just to make Hermione miserable, then IDEK.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-25 01:33 am (UTC)At the *beginning* of HBP; Harry comes across her in the Express, if I remember correctly, and we never see her again. So -
but when a year later ...
More like only two months later. So yes, while that book fact is consistent with Rowling's malice for 'traitors', it's not conclusive at all that Marietta was permanently blighted in the canon. Really really REALLY bad acne - as in cursed acne - might take a couple of months to clear up, yes?
Imagine Harry spending the rest of his life under her eagle eye, ranting and raving any time a woman innocently glances in his direction.
Well, who knows, once Ginny had snared the hero on whom she had crushed and fantasised for most of her life, once she had the ring on her finger, once her fairy tale dream was realised, maybe she would have relaxed.
But as she was written in the books she was nothing close to being a 'soul mate'. No evidence at all for it - H/G was nothing more than a physical/superficial teenage fling - and some evidence distinctly against it, like the jealousy. And Ginny totally forgetting over two months that her hero was going to go hunting for Voldemort (even though "that's why I like you so much"). And not knowing him well enough to get a proper birthday present (although that's more of a subjective assessment on my part). And Harry never trusting her enough to tell her anything of stature. And his never thinking to help her evade torture by lending her the Marauders Map, for which he had no use himself. And his placing her needs for company and compassion over her brother's death as a lesser priority than getting a snooze and a sandwich. And ...
:-)
I don't know if Ron was 'using' Lavender just to strike back at Hermione.
I think that was a large part of it. Lavender was attracted to Won Won, Ron reciprocated and had a good old time - physical intimacy on a par with the lightweight non-soulmate H/G :-) - but he was *always* cognisant of what Hermione was doing, such that Hermione's presence seemed more important to him than Lavender. I'm thinking mainly of when Hermione talked to Parvati about whom she was taking to the Slughorn party and Ron immediately surfaced from his snogging session (a sound like a 'plunger') to listen. Were there other occasions where Hermione was shown to be of a higher priority than fun with Lavender, always on his radar?
I don't think that 'striking back at Hermione' was the totality of Ron's motivation to be with Lavender, but it was certainly part of it I reckon.
What does 'IDEK' mean?
no subject
Date: 2010-10-25 02:02 am (UTC)So when was Marietta hexed in OotP? It was after Dumbles legged it, and Umbridge took over, so that wasn't near the end of the school year- it was before the Easter holidays, though I can't work out how much before- the series of events goes:
Dumbles legs it
A day later, Umbridge was in charge
Then Harry has his talk with Cho where he feels gratified that Marietta's still in the hospital wing, very much disfigured
Disastrous Occlumency lesson with Snape
...
Next thing we know, it's the holidays and Hermione's asking why he doesn't have lessons anymore. So it could've been immediately after that lesson, or a week or two might've passed and she realized he wasn't meeting with Snape anymore.
But regardless, from Easter to September, that's at least five months.
(and I realize all this rambling wasn't necessary, but oh well)
Really really REALLY bad acne
Ugh, it's not just bad acne, though! I mean, pimples are bad, but 'close-set purple pustules over her nose and cheeks'...you can't do anything to hide that! If it was on her forehead, she could conceal it more effectively, but across most of her face?
she was nothing close to being a 'soul mate'. No evidence at all for it - H/G was nothing more than a physical/superficial teenage fling
Um, lol, people diss Ron/Lavender because she's just a fangirl (which is doing her an injustice, we've not been in her head, for all we know, she's liked him for ages, and anyway, everyone likes Quidditch except Hermione, so does that mean he's not allowed to date anyone ever because they might like him for his Quidditch skills? Oh, by process of elimination, no wonder that left him with Hermione, then), but what about Ginny? I mean, look at the two relationships- a starstruck fangirl who likes the guy for his fame and success, who gets jealous and is very possessive of him...but Ron/Lav is just hormones but H/G is TRUE LOVE BETWEEN SOULMATES. Right.
never thinking to help her evade torture by lending her the Marauders Map, for which he had no use himself
ARGH, THIS. It's my personal canon that Ginny grows a spine and berates him for being so selfish. I mean, he's leaving school behind under a DE regime and he wants to take the Map so he can ogle her dot...while she's there, risking torture while she sneaks around on seditious excursions. *headdesk*
Hermione's presence seemed more important to him than Lavender. I'm thinking mainly of when Hermione talked to Parvati about whom she was taking to the Slughorn party and Ron immediately surfaced from his snogging session (a sound like a 'plunger') to listen
Oh, gross. I already hated their 'romance', but this makes it even worse. Seriously, he toys with a girl's affections for months in part to hurt Hermione? I- just. UGH. *head!splodes*
From urban dictionary (my first stop always, lol):
A variation of idk or idek, which represents a shorthand version of the phrase "I don't even know, I don't even fucking know" Used to express a more profound sense of bewilderment and confusion.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-25 02:43 am (UTC)On this occasion I totally forgot the first part of the lifetime of Marietta's pimples' lifetime, i.e. when she turned in the DA in OotP. You're totally correct of course; that's five months, not just the tail end of the period that took place in the summer holidays.
I mean, pimples are bad, but 'close-set purple pustules over her nose and cheeks'...you can't do anything to hide that!
But Marietta *does*, when Harry sees her in the carriage in book 6:
As Harry passed the window, he saw her deep in determined conversation with her friend Marietta, who was wearing a very thick layer of makeup that did not entirely obscure the odd formation of pimples still etched across her face. Smirking slightly, Harry pushed on.
(dear 'smirking' Harry.)
Okay, it's a *very thick* layer of makeup, but (a) those 'purple pustules' which had so 'horribly disfigured' her in OotP are now *almost entirely* obscured, to a point where they look like *pimples*. So I think there's grounds there for stating that the pustules have slowly faded.
The canon evidence is certainly consistent with Rowling's interview-expressed desire for vicious vengeance, but I don't think there's anything there to state that that's what happened - that the pimples never cleared up - either.
but Ron/Lav is just hormones but H/G is TRUE LOVE BETWEEN SOULMATES.
Since we don't see inside Lavender's head I'd be loathe to claim her as a pure 'fangirl' either. She attends Ron's quidditch games, she wishes him luck, she gives him a present (unlike Ginny for Harry; she doesn't know her SOUL MATE well enough to 'think of anything' as a gift). Lavender seems to be sincere in her liking Ron, even if she's not to his liking.
Whereas Ginny *is* a fangirl, full stop. That's what we're told/shown from the start and the early books, the infamous 'breakup scene' reeks of it, etc. Ugh.
It's my personal canon that Ginny grows a spine and berates him for being so selfish.
I think a lot of H/G stories start off with many canon corrections; they sort of have to, don't they, if they're going to take the relationship seriously? With Ginny as anything more than a lightweight fangirl? Berating Harry for keeping the map and not thinking of her, berating him for leaving her at home, for keeping her out of the battle, for abandoning her for a sandwich ...
And he can chastise her for her jealousy. "Ginny, the Dark Lord was coming to Hogwarts to KILL ME, we were all DESPERATELY trying to think of ways to stop him, Cho said she could help me LIVE ... and your first thought was to STOP HER? Because you were JEALOUS? Don't you think your priorities were just a little out of whack? MY LIFE WAS ON THE LINE!! AND THE FREEDOM OF THE ENTIRE WIZARDING WORLD! And your ONLY CONTRIBUTION was 'DON'T LET CHO HELP HARRY TO SURVIVE'?".
Seriously, he toys with a girl's affections for months in part to hurt Hermione?
Yep. In part.
Here's the plunger:
"Yes, I'm meeting Cormac at eight, and we're -"
There was a noise like a plunger being withdrawn from a blocked sink , and Ron surfaced. Hermione acted as though she had not seen or heard anything.
Hermione wasn't addressing Ron, Lavender had 'flung her arms around his neck' and they were going for it, but he shows that he's watching Hermione and that she has priority.
Well, maybe Ron wasn't *using* Lavender to hurt Hermione; perhaps it was just a case of 'never giving up on her', a' la' Harry's SOUL MATE who dated 2-3 boys while always hoping that, one day, her prince would deign to notice her.
no subject
Date: 2010-10-26 08:46 am (UTC)Ah, 'k, so there's hope that Marietta's face eventually returned to normal, then. But I still think even pimples that show through make-up is harsh. Because teen girls (and older!) freak out so much over just one pimple, it can totally ruin their self-confidence and there's Marietta with these giant pustules, then later, still visible pimples!
People feel sorry for Hermione's episode with the teeth, when she just suffers that embarrassment for a few minutes before emerging with stunning perfect new teeth that make her so much happier and more confident, while ignoring the psychological impact on this teen girl whose face is just...ugh. Even if they do clear up, fingers crossed, that's still months that she's looked absolutely horrible. (though I suppose Eloise Midgen would be happy someone else is finally the ugliest girl at school)
Ginny for Harry; she doesn't know her SOUL MATE well enough to 'think of anything' as a gift
Haha! Don't be silly, just being with Harry as her own sweet lovable self is a gift! :P
And I laugh at people who scorn Lavender for her ill-thought-out sappy present to Ron- because it's so much worse than homework planners? I read a comment on that as how her present shows that she likes Ron the way he is and he doesn't have to change, whereas Hermione's is all about improving him and making him rise to her standards and is basically judging him. Besides which, being totally un-romantic and not suited to him at all. She got Harry a broom-polishing kit, because quidditch is important to him, so obviously she's not clueless when it comes to giving gifts!
And he can chastise her for her jealousy. "Ginny, the Dark Lord was coming to Hogwarts to KILL ME, we were all DESPERATELY trying to think of ways to stop him, Cho said she could help me LIVE ... and your first thought was to STOP HER? Because you were JEALOUS? Don't you think your priorities were just a little out of whack? MY LIFE WAS ON THE LINE!! AND THE FREEDOM OF THE ENTIRE WIZARDING WORLD! And your ONLY CONTRIBUTION was 'DON'T LET CHO HELP HARRY TO SURVIVE'?".
LMAO. I- just- I have no words! This is FLAWLESS. ♥ x infinity!
Lavender had 'flung her arms around his neck' and they were going for it, but he shows that he's watching Hermione and that she has priority.
I...feel really bad for Lavender. That just shows where his attention was, whenever he was with her. Ugh, I have a bad taste in my mouth. >:[ God, the way our heroes treat people is just all kinds of wrong. I mean, this behavior is consistent with some selfish, shallow teens, but the fact that there is no judgment upon it, that it's totally okay to use and ditch her, that fandom slut-shames LAVENDER, I can't even understand how she's doing wrong here... *shakes head*
maybe Ron wasn't *using* Lavender to hurt Hermione; perhaps it was just a case of 'never giving up on her'
Ha, I'd never seen that parallel with Ginny before! Guess it runs in the family!
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Date: 2010-10-28 09:28 pm (UTC)Oh it's even better. Marrietta has no recollection of *why* she has cursed pimples all over her face. Kingsley obliviated her in Dumbledore's office before she could tell Umbridge Harry's part in it and get him expelled.
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Date: 2010-10-29 05:05 am (UTC)(what confuses me is that I seem to think one of the Gryffindor boys invited someone else into the group- and he didn't trigger the hex? Unless it was purposefully linked to some emotional/mental trigger, like, thinking about betrayal, rather than 'oh, hey, wanna join this awesome club?')
I lol so much at Dumbledore in that scene- it's disgusting, he's like 'No, Dolores, I can't let you manhandle my students!' but this is the guy who's okay with Obliviation, and who deliberately sent two third-years into the path of Dementors and werewolves, and countless other dangerous situations. Riiight.
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Date: 2010-10-29 05:47 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-10-29 05:59 am (UTC)'Harry, I think Iʹm doing it!ʹ yelled Seamus, who had been brought along to his first ever DA meeting by Dean.
Now, Harry and Seamus had been on the outs for a while after he yelled about his mother, so I don't think Harry would've been chummy enough to invite him, plus, the way it's phrased...unless Dean didn't say 'hey, join the DA' but just brought him along...except that's still revealing its existence to someone else. So I wonder how Hermione's jinx was set up.
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From:no subject
Date: 2010-10-25 01:00 am (UTC)I suppose the thing that prevents us from condemning her is that she did these things for "the greater good," not for the selfish motive of "love."
THIS. I question but accept some of her actions before- setting Snape on fire, well, Harry's life was at stake. Drugging Crabbe and Goyle, ugh, but she was desperate to find out about the Heir of Slytherin and Muggle-borns were being attacked and nothing was being done. (this plan was stupid, but I let it go because she's young and because she gets screwed over, like, the one time Hermione ever gets 'punished' and it's because of hubris) Same goes with other actions.
But HBP? There was no justification! It wasn't a case of lives being at stake, it was her being selfish and using magic to strike others down to make herself feel good and it was disgusting. I used to admire this girl, but after that...no. I hate how people think it's 'cute' the way she attacks a fellow student to help Ron, and how her own vicious assault on him (leaving him with cuts that don't heal for weeks) inspires more sympathy for Hermione, the 'wronged' party. W. T. F.
Magic being used for the greater good will always make me nitpick it and analyze ways it could've been better handled. Magic to hurt others for no good reason...it's indefensible. I laugh at fics with abusive!Ron because if anything, Hermione's the one who resorts to violence as a first resort.
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Date: 2010-10-25 05:54 pm (UTC)If the roles had been reversed and Ron had been the one to attack her for dating Viktor, he would have been crucified by the fandom, hands down. Putting a person in the hospital wing is not "cute." Attacking someone for the crime of dating a person who isn't you is not "revenge." I can see a deranged, abusive stalker killing a girl's boyfriend for getting in the way. I can see that stalker hurting that girl for choosing someone other than him. What if the animals that Hermione had conjured up to hurt Ron weren't as harmless-looking as canaries, but were a flock of deadly hawks? What if they were snakes and Ron had gotten bitten by one just like his father did?
What if Tom Riddle was obsessed with Ginny and badly hurt her for liking Harry? Would anybody (apart from his extreme, hardcore fans) be saying, "You go, man! Show that idiot not to mess with you!" or something along those lines? Of course not. Because it's terrible when a man hurts a woman, but when a woman hurts a man, it's "hilarious."
"Look at how spunky that cute little girl is, thinking she's all tough! Look at her pout in her kitten rage!" "Look at what a pansy that guy is for getting beaten up by a *girl," what a loser."
It's a double standard that I do not like in the slightest.
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Date: 2010-10-26 08:59 am (UTC)Agreed. Even if they were dating at that point, it STILL would not have been right for her to attack him that way. I would've understood and sympathized if she trashed his things, but for two people who are still just friends, and her to react violently to him being with another girl...I can't even!
It's disgusting how it's seen as a win for feminists, a 'yay girl power' moment. How is it equality if there is one set of standards imposed on men and another on women? This is over-compensation, and it's not right. Men should not abuse women. That's something everyone agrees on. Yet we have a female abusing a guy and it's something to be celebrated? *iz appalled*
"Look at how spunky that cute little girl is, thinking she's all tough! Look at her pout in her kitten rage!"
And he brings it up fondly in DH! WTF? 'coz it's hilarious that she hurt him so badly it took weeks to recover! How feisty!
And the scene where Harry has to cast a protego to protect Ron...and the way he flinches when Hermione raises her hand because he's expecting another attack...romance of the decade? I think not.
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Date: 2010-10-26 01:50 pm (UTC)ITA on that point. It seems to me like JKR's bought into that weird modern sexism which judges women by how much they act like men -- so here, FE, Hermione's abusing Ron, which is a stereotypically male thing to do, so Hermione's liberated and strong and therefore Good. Personally, I've always thought that true equality would consist of (a) accepting that traditional female roles are every bit as good as traditional male roles, and (b) allowing women to take on traditional male roles if so they wish.
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Date: 2010-10-26 11:32 pm (UTC)Word. But for some reason, equality seems to involve women being complete bitches and putting men down. And thus, they are awesome. *eyeroll* I hate it when being vicious is portrayed as a positive thing. 'Yeah, you put that male in his place! Go ahead, preach it, sister!'
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Date: 2010-10-28 09:43 pm (UTC)Exactly. And this has been the message loud and clear from the beginning of the series.
The whole disdain for Lavender is beca¨se from the start of the whole story she has been depicted as being not merely silly (which she has) but that she has been depicted as *girly*.
And, consequently, she was not worth having anything to do with, or taking seriously. And while that might be a valid viewpoint through the Harry filter, when he was 11, it certainly does not make her a slut.
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Date: 2010-10-26 01:54 pm (UTC)/Even if they were dating at that point, it STILL would not have been right for her to attack him that way./
Yes, and it's good that you mentioned a key statement there: "even if they were dating at that point." They were *not* dating. A lot of people make it sound as if Ron was cheating on her and that's why Hermione got so mad, but that's not true at all. At that point, they were still just friends. Even after knowing him for so many years, Hermione still didn't realize that she couldn't draw Ron out with passive-aggressive gestures or indirect suggestiveness; she had to be direct. Lavender *was* direct. She made it very clear to Ron that she wanted to date him; that's why she snagged him first. Was it wrong for Ron to use Lavender? Absolutely, but that wasn't what Hermione was upset about. She was just being a jealous sore loser, acting like the prototypical Nice Guy: unable to accept that the object of her affections wasn't going to wait around anymore for her to tell him how she felt. Besides, she felt free to go out with Viktor. Why is that acceptable, but Ron going out with Lavender isn't?
/It's disgusting how it's seen as a win for feminists, a 'yay girl power' moment./
I'm a feminist, and let me tell you, I did *not* think that that was a "girl power" moment at all, and I'm continually frustrated by people who think that it was. If Ron attacked Hermione, would that be a "boy power" moment? Would he be showing how much of a man he was? If anything, the scene is a throwback to sexism because Hermione's violence isn't taken seriously. Again, if Ron attacked her, nobody would think that it was funny. So, why are Hermione's actions funny? Because she's a girl? That's sexist, no matter how you spin it.
/And he brings it up fondly in DH! WTF? 'coz it's hilarious that she hurt him so badly it took weeks to recover! How feisty!/
I mentally groaned when I read that scene in DH. Here I thought that HBP!Hermione and HBP!Ron were finally gone with the advent of DH and then JKR reminds us all of that scene? Why, JKR, why? Why are Harry and Ron joking about it? Why is Hermione acting like such a psycho when Ron comes back? I get that she was supposed to be overwrought about Ron leaving them, was supposed to be literally beating some sense into him, but it was just too much. Some fans described the scene facetiously, saying offhandedly, "Hermione missed him so much that the moment he came back, she started beating the heck out of him. True love." It's funny, see! She was just showing him how much she cared!
Just like it would be funny if a guy, who hadn't seen his ex-girlfriend in a while, started beating her up as soon as she came back to him.
I am not laughing.
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Date: 2010-10-26 11:19 pm (UTC)Was it wrong for Ron to use Lavender? Absolutely, but that wasn't what Hermione was upset about.
Hermione couldn't care less about Lavender. She was happy for the girl to be dropped as soon as Ron 'came to his senses', she's had nothing but disdain and superiority ever since they met.
And while I'm defending Ron against Hermione's attack, I'll say for the record that his treatment of Lavender was appalling. The movie completely changes the dynamics of their relationship to make it more innocent, which I do like because hating on people for stupidity is not fun for me, but def in the books, Ron was using her shamelessly. Poor girl.
she felt free to go out with Viktor. Why is that acceptable, but Ron going out with Lavender isn't?
EXACTLY. How is that any different? Okay, true, she and Viktor weren't making out, but that would've been a bit creepy since we thought she was 14 and he was 18, but still.
And in DH, Ron watches her dancing with Viktor jealously, but does he attack her over it? No!
Why is Hermione acting like such a psycho when Ron comes back? I get that she was supposed to be overwrought about Ron leaving them, was supposed to be literally beating some sense into him, but it was just too much.
The DH movie makes it look a bit better, though. Less psychotic anyway.
The movies tend to remove or dilute any truly objectionable scenes from the books, so here, Hermione whacks Ron with a bag and then storms off, which I think is rather understandable- and def not as bad as repeatedly striking him to the point where Harry had to step in to defend Ron, and then whirling around madly to try and grab her wand to inflict more damage.
Just like it would be funny if a guy, who hadn't seen his ex-girlfriend in a while, started beating her up as soon as she came back to him
IKR? There is just no good way to spin this at all.
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Date: 2010-10-27 02:52 am (UTC)Thanks! It was my first HP rant posted online, so I'm glad you liked it! ^^
/And while I'm defending Ron against Hermione's attack, I'll say for the record that his treatment of Lavender was appalling./
Yes, Ron's manipulation of Lavender and Hermione's manipulation of Cormac were not nice in the slightest. Using other people to make your object of affection jealous is *not* cute, JKR. Most of the time, it doesn't even work and ends up making things worse.
Thanks for the video and the pictures! :D