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deathtocapslock
* Collin’s really acting like an obsessive stalker here. I wonder if that’s how Harry appeared to Draco in HBP?
* Ron’s malfunctioning wand actually sounds quite dangerous, but nobody thinks it might be a good idea to replace it. Although OTOH having a lax attitude towards safety seems to be one of the few things about the WW that seems consistent throughout the books (they’ll show it again when Percy tries to stop people using dangerous cauldrons), so maybe I should be thankful that it isn’t just one of these things that changes whenever the plot demands.
* I assume that JKR’s just forgotten to mention the try-outs that every Quidditch team apparently does each year.
* I’m just going to tune out while Harry recaps the rules of Quidditch for Collin.
* Everyone’s not bothering to pay attention to Wood’s new tactics. Remember kids, teamwork’s for suckers! You just do what you want to do!
* Wood is still upset over Gryffindor losing last year. Serves him right for being too thick to have a reserve Seeker, IMHO.
* Note how Wood’s first reaction upon seeing Collin is to jump to the conclusion that he’s a Slytherin spy. Not that he’s in any way biased against Slytherin, or anything like that.
* Remember chaps, looking like a troll = evil. Part-giant, OTOH, = misunderstood woobie. Even though trolls don’t really seem much worse than giants.
* There are no girls on the Slytherin team, just to remind everyone that they’re sexist, and therefore evil. JKR hates sexism, which is why she took care to include so many liberated, independent-minded women in the novels.
* Wood’s “spitting with rage” now. Christ, Oliver, calm down, it’s not the end of the world. Maybe the Gryffindor and Slytherin teams could just play a friendly, or something.
* “Aren’t you Lucius Malfoy’s son?” says Fred, looking at Draco with dislike. Remember kids, it’s wrong to judge people based on their family.
* Is it possible to smirk so broadly that your eyes are “reduced to slits”, or is Draco actually grinning with happiness here?
* I don’t think that Malfoy did buy his way onto the team. For a start, Seeker is the most (i.e., only) important position in the game, and I don’t think that flying on better brooms would compensate for having an inferior Seeker. Secondly, he’s on the team for at least three years, when the Slytherins could easily have ditched him as soon as they’d got the brooms. They’d even have had a good excuse after losing that Quidditch match in “The Rogue Bludger”.
* Lucius seemed like quite a harsh, demanding father when we saw him in Borgin and Burke’s, IMHO, so the thought that he’s pleased daddy enough to make him buy new brooms for the team is probably making Draco grin even more.
* I bet he looks adorable in this scene.
* Now I can’t stop thinking of Lauren Lopez in A Very Potter Sequel. “Don’t worry, daddy, you’ll love me after this! I’ll catch that Snitch, mark my words!”
* Just thought it interesting to note that Malfoy wasn’t involved in the conversation until Ron brought him in. It’s not like he was strutting up and down, boasting about his new broom, or anything like that.
* Hermione’s the one who starts with the personal insults. Really, I think that the good [sic] guys are acting worse than the baddies here.
* If the theory that Draco’s really just happy because he’s finally made his daddy proud is right, then implying that he’d just bought his way onto the team is probably one of the most offensive things Hermione could say. Unsurprisingly, he responds with one of the most offensive things that he could say.
* Draco calls Hermione a “Mudblood”, despite the fact that she’s a Muggleborn, and therefore cannot be expected to know what it means, suggesting that either she’s upset him so much he’s not thinking straight, or that he wants to keep face in front of his teammates by responding to her insults, but at the same time doesn’t want to upset her. If the latter, it could be evidence for some kind of D/Hr ship.
* JKR seems to be expecting us to go “ZOMG Draco’s an evil racist!” suggesting that she’s forgotten why exactly it is that racism’s considered so wrong. I don’t think it’s just that you’re looking down on people for the way they were born – if it were, then jokes about stupid blondes would be considered as bad as jokes about stupid black people. Rather, it’s wrong because minorities often suffer from discrimination (and in many cases have suffered from it even more in the relatively recent past), and racist language helps to reinforce and normalise the prejudiced attitudes which lead to such discrimination. Because we haven’t really see people suffering from anti-Muggleborn prejudice, it’s hard to think of “Mudblood” as a particularly serious insult.
* This, BTW, is why I disagree with people who say things like “Rowling uses the Harry Potter books to teach children not to be racist.” If she were really doing that, she’d show how racism affects people’s lives (cf. To Kill a Mockingbird). What she’s actually doing is taking real racism and using it in lieu of actual worldbuilding and characterisation. We already know that racism is wrong, and we think Draco’s a bad person because his use of the term “Mudblood” is superficially similar to real-life examples of racism; we don’t learn about how racism is bad from its effects on HP characters, because it doesn’t really have any.
* Anyway, back to the actual story…
* Once again, the good guys are the first to use force. Why am I not surprised?
* I think it’s sweet the way Flint dives in front of Malfoy to stop him being attacked. The Slytherins often seem to look out for each other the most (see also Lucius patting Snape on the back when he’s first Sorted). Contrast this with the Gryffindors in PS, who refuse to speak to Harry, Hermione, Ron or Neville after they lose some House Points.
* What’s this, one of the good guys has suffered some negative consequences as a result of attacking someone else? Hold on while I go make a note of this in my diary.
* Again with the clothes! Lockhart’s wearing robes of “palest mauve” today. Harry’s really starting to look rather gay now; given JKR’s fondness for stereotypes (viz. the Finnegans) and inability to write a decent romance (chest monster!), I wouldn’t be at all surprised to find her way of showing homosexuality would be having someone spend all their time looking at their crush’s clothes.
* Note how Hagrid doesn’t remonstrate with Ron for trying to curse Malfoy. Clearly he’s a responsible adult and an excellent candidate for a prestigious teaching position.
* I know Hagrid doesn’t like Lockhart, but he really should know better than to undermine him like that in front of his pupils.
* So the jinx on DADA has been in place for what, forty or so years now? And people are only just starting to twig? I know wizards are slow learners, but really…
* Also, couldn’t Dumbledore find ways to either discover how Riddle jinxed the position and undo it somehow, or to get around it, such as hiring two teachers who each teach on alternate years or getting rid of DADA and replacing it with a class which is functionally indistinguishable but has a different name (“battle magic”, perhaps?).
* I think that this scene was one which the film actually did better than the books. Yes, having Hermione getting all upset may not have been fully logical, but it at least made Draco look like a hurtful bully rather than an eccentric crank. It also suggested that someone might have called Hermione that before, hinting at actual day-to-day anti-Muggleborn prejudice, which is more than the books ever managed to do.
* “Maybe it was a good thing yer wand backfired.” Wait, is Hagrid glad that Ron got to be on the receiving end in the hope that he’ll be less likely to curse people in future? No, of course not, he’s worrying that Ron might otherwise have got in trouble.
* Hagrid comes across as so judgemental when he says “’Spect Lucius Malfoy would’ve come marchin’ up ter school if yeh’d cursed his son.” Clearly, caring about your children being attacked is a sign of great evil. Good guys know that being randomly hexed is what makes a man out of you.
* Although Lucius doesn’t seem to have done much when Draco was hexed into unconsciousness on the train (twice!), which probably foreshadows the Redeemed!Malfoys situation at the end of DH.
* Hagrid’s been breaking the law to make his pumpkins grow faster. Which couldn’t possibly be dangerous in any way, oh no.
* Suddenly, Draco’s gossip about him getting drunk and setting his bed on fire looks awfully plausible.
* Everybody hates Filch, which is entirely understandable, given all the times he complains about having to clean up the mess children make and, erm, gives them detention for breaking the rules. Yep, entirely understandable.
* So how does Parseltongue work, then? ’Cause surely Lockhart ought to have heard it, even if he didn’t understand what it was saying? Or is it a sort of telepathy? But then Ron managed to speak it in DH…
* Awfully convenient the way the basilisk goes around describing its evil plan to itself, isn’t it? Do basilisks just have really bad memories, and need to keep repeating their plans to themselves in case they forget?
* Part of me can’t help but feel pleased that Ron vomited slugs over that trophy. Maybe next time he’ll think twice before hexing someone. Or not.
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Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 04:17 am (UTC)As we see in PS with Quirrell, Tom couldn't touch Harry, nor could he cast spells on Harry directly. What he could have done is manipulate other objects, physically or magically in order to kill Harry. He couldn't lift Harry or Accio him or levitate him in order to drop him or drown him or whatever. But he could drop a heavy weight on his head, or set the house on fire. We know that because we see that Quirrellmort (but not just Quirrell who is obeying Vapormort's orders) can't touch Harry without being burned, but he can cast a spell on Harry's broom while Harry is riding it.
There was no necessity for Tom to cast a spell of any kind to activate the magic, it got activated when Lily said 'take me instead' and Tom went and killed her. It would have worked regardless of whether he used magic to kill her or not. It might have even worked if he failed to kill her but fully intended to.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 12:47 pm (UTC)As long as it wasn't skin to skin contact he could have smothered him with a pillow. Quirrel couldn't touch his bare skin without suffering pain.
He couldn't lift Harry or Accio him or levitate him in order to drop him or drown him or whatever.
As long as he didn't have bare skin contact he could. Which sounds to be like there was some sort of shield right around Harry's skin, on his skin. Notice that Quirrell didn't get burned by being only a inch from harry, it's when he touched him.
If Voldie had of cast the AK and it would have missed Harry by an inch would the same effect happen?
But he could drop a heavy weight on his head, or set the house on fire.
Yes, exactly there would have been no direct contact. He could have wrapped baby Harry in a blanket or put him in a sack and thrown him in the river. Well, unless baby Harry was nude...and I'm fairly sure the baby had clothing on. Voldie wouldn't have had to touch the baby's bare skin.
We know that because we see that Quirrellmort (but not just Quirrell who is obeying Vapormort's orders) can't touch Harry without being burned, but he can cast a spell on Harry's broom while Harry is riding it.
Yea, he couldn't touch him skin to skin and was burned but there was no new scar produced on Harry and Voldie's soul didn't split again and neither did Quirrells.
Quirrell touching Harry didn't cause an explosion like what happened in the Potters house.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 02:54 pm (UTC)The intended target of the AK would have still been Harry, so I think yes.
Yea, he couldn't touch him skin to skin and was burned but there was no new scar produced on Harry and Voldie's soul didn't split again and neither did Quirrells.
For a soul to split someone has to die. At Godric's Hollow Tom's soul tore once for James, once for Lily and once for Tom himself. It was Terri's proposal that Tom tearing his own soul, which was already in a raggedy state that caused the extra magic of destroying Tom's body and the house.
At the end of PS the only person who died was Quirrell and the person who caused the death was Harry. If it hadn't been in self-defense then it would be Harry's soul that split.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 03:25 pm (UTC)The intended target of the AK would have still been Harry, so I think yes.
Well this is where we differ, Voldie I think when He pointed his wand at Harry did point it at the baby's head didn't he. He wanted to see it happen I thought is what Voldie was thinking or at least the way I remember it.
If the baby had disappeared somehow, I don't think the spell would have rebound. I still think the energy of the spell had to come out and go at the baby's face. And since he was so close, maybe thats why there was an explosion. Which is I think unusual for an AK isn't it? Though we do see that Dumbledore's death was a little different but most of the AK's Voldie cast tended to just drop the person dead.
For me the AK spell had to get close enough to the baby to make that explosion happen.
At the end of PS the only person who died was Quirrell and the person who caused the death was Harry. If it hadn't been in self-defense then it would be Harry's soul that split.
Was it Harry, or was it because Voldiemort was in Quirrell? Are you saying that it didn't matter who intended to kill Harry he would have been protected. Or was it just Voldie? Voldie was in Quirrel at the time Q touched Harry.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 03:46 pm (UTC)Harry saw that touching him was burning Quirrell so he deliberately caught Quirrell's arm and hung on tightly in order to hurt Quirrell. So yes, it was Harry in the end.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 03:30 pm (UTC)wait, didn't Voldemort try to cast the spell at Harry or at Dumbeldore in the Minstry at the end of OOTP but it was blocked? Or am I thinking of the phoenix Blocking it?
For some reason I am thinking Dumbledore used an object or put something in the path of the AK during their fight?
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 03:49 pm (UTC)Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 12:51 pm (UTC)So basically Snape saved the wizarding world, yes? The magical Harry-saving thingy only got activated 'coz Voldy gave her the chance to stand aside and let him kill her baby- which was only 'coz Snape begged him to spare her. He had no qualms AK'ing James right off the bat (what a pitiful showing), so if he'd just AK'd her right away instead of thinking about letting her live, Harry would never have inherited any magical protection, he would've died and Voldy would've kept on going with his reign of terror, y/y?
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 01:15 pm (UTC)Yea, I just posted a reply thinking the same thing.
The magical Harry-saving thingy only got activated 'coz Voldy gave her the chance to stand aside and let him kill her baby- which was only 'coz Snape begged him to spare her. He had no qualms AK'ing James right off the bat (what a pitiful showing), so if he'd just AK'd her right away instead of thinking about letting her live, Harry would never have inherited any magical protection, he would've died and Voldy would've kept on going with his reign of terror, y/y?
We're to assume that, because Snape asked, Voldie gave her the chance to step aside. I don't think it qualifies as Voldie showing any pity to her. And I don't remember if it was sort of an offer made, like an official if you step aside I will not kill you.
Didn't he just insult her and tell her to get out of the way. He never verbally made any offer to her. I don't think Voldie said, look Mrs. potter, let me kill your son and you will get XYZ.
I think he just said something like, get out of the way stupid girl.
Plus I think I remeber Lily said she would do anything didn't she???? If he didn't kill Harry. She was saying please not Harry and for whatever reason i'm thinking she said she'd do anything. (I don't have my book right now)
Not unlike Snape, who also said he would do anything.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 01:29 pm (UTC)Anyway, Voldy just tells her to 'stand aside, silly girl' and 'this is my last warning', no verbal offers. I don't know if he ever had any intention of sparing Lily- who knows, if she had bolted for the door, he might've ignored her in favor of the greater threat, Harry. But definitely, his pause, her taking that chance to plead her case and show her ~special maternal love~ for Harry, which nobody else's love has ever matched, was what saved his life.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 02:45 pm (UTC)Well, we don't know if Twinkly bothered to tell the Potters about the prophecy. He might have just said Tom was after them in particular because of their past history with him.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 01:01 pm (UTC)If it got activated before Voldie AK'ed her then it sounds to me like she should be alive?
Since it also has apparently something to do with Lily's blood, She has her own blood so if you're saying this love magic got activated before Voldie cast the spell on Lily then to my way of thinking it should have protected her as well.
Didn't something happen in the last book when Harry sacrificed himself, didn't or wasn't it said that his sacrifice was protecting everyone in the castle or some such thing?
But he had to die first for that power to be created. It wasn't happening before right?
Lily's sacrifice could only come into effect when she was murdered, not before.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 01:32 pm (UTC)(So like, if Ginny sacrificed herself to save Harry, that wouldn't raise any magical shield? Or is there a Mary Sue exception for Ginny?)
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 02:03 pm (UTC)I never said it wasn't a flawed plot but I'm assuming that is how JKR intended it to work or what she meant. I think someone asked her in an interview about was Lily the only one who ever did that or whatever. I honestly don't remember the exact question or the exact reply, but what little I do remember implied to me that it was becasue Lily didn't stand aside and because she got killed that is what created the magic. The magic clearly didn't exist before she was killed or she would not have died.
Or unless it's going to be a theory that she was offered a chance to come back like Harry was and she chose not to. But I can't see that happening. I'd think if Lily was AK'ed and offered the chance to come back she would have because IF she was willing to throw down her life for the baby then she would have come back for that baby becuse she wouldn't have wanted her sister to raise her child.
So it's either the actual magic shield protection was created upon Lily not getting out of the way OR it was created at the moment she sacrificed herself and died.
I think she had to be AK'ed for the magic to actually come into existance.
So, like I didn't write the story so JKR would have to be questioned on why this would not happen for anyone. It seems to be the set of people that caused it.
Severus asked for Lily to be spared becasue of 'love'
Voldie told her to get out of the way but she wouldn't. He AK'ed her and becasue she would not get out of the way her sacrifice is what caused this protection to occur. But it's very very possible that if Severus had not asked, Voldie probably would have just AK'ed her. Would her still standing in the way have invoked the spell? I'm pretty sure she would have begged but would she have been given the chance to.
It really seems to be that it was Severus' request caused by 'love' which supported the spell in some way. But I don't know if thats founded and I'm now wondering about the Doe patronus for some reason.
I am remembering that Harry when he first saw the doe seemed to recognize it and felt connected to it.
Why? Even though it was a doe it was still Snape's patronus it wasn't actually Lily's.
Yet, now I'm wondering and I think I've theorized this before in other places that 'magic' may have played a part in how all this came out. Because I remember something about it being described as Voldie was doing something so terrible that it was like the balance of magic tipped way to the 'dark' side when he killed Lily so in attempting to kill Harry the magic had to tip way back over to rebalance itself.
So it's very possible this 'magic' that seems to need balance also used Severus and considering that it feels a bit like Severus is the reason Voldie made the offer to let her step aside then it was his love that started the crap. So, it almost seems like he has a magical connection to that night which might explain in theory why Harry would feel a connection to Sev's patronus doe.
or I'm rambling and off point. Either way, I didn't design the plot of the story. Because like you and others I have to wonder haven't there been other situations where a parent would stand in front of their child or protect their children. Hell any parent/mother would do the same thing in the same situation. So...maybe it is becuase of Severus, because it sounds like there was more going on than just mothers love.
But then again I think isn't that how JKR herself describes it as mothers love or that is the theme or whateever...I have no clue, we're arguing a flawed plot and a flawed idea.
It still seems like the idea of the magic is that lily had to die first before the magic could protect harry.
Not sure what would have happened if she stood aside.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 05:33 pm (UTC)This is similar to what happened at Hogwarts in the final battle, if I remember correctly. Voldemort promised three times to leave everyone alone if they turned over Harry Potter. Eventually, Harry made himself a willing sacrifice out of "love" for his friends, Hogwarts, and Dumbledore, I guess. His sacrifice set in place the protection against Voldemort that Voldemort himself stupidly promised.
Voldemort... worst villain evar.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-11-01 06:28 am (UTC)Yeah, Voldy basically defeated himself. *eyeroll* WAY TO GO, DUDE. The moral of the story for all future villains is to KILL FIRST AND ASK QUESTIONS NEVER. *nodnod*
I don't remember DH very well, but only Voldy's spells would've been affected, yeah? The guy has minions for a reason, their magic would still have been effective, no? (ignore this if it's a stupid question, I can't recall the way the scene was staged, maybe he was on his own or something, or his minions were tied up with other things)
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-11-01 04:51 pm (UTC)And as for the minions: yeah. It's the same question as why nobody ever snatched Harry in the street during those ten years at the Dursleys with only a squib watching out for him. Apparently the DEs really were not at all eager to bring their precious Dark Lord back anytime soon, or even to avenge him really.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-11-01 11:12 pm (UTC)It's the same question as why nobody ever snatched Harry in the street during those ten years at the Dursleys
Did they know where he was, though? Could they work it out? I mean, Harry notes that two or three weird-looking people greeted him/shook his hand, but I think they were in the Order, so that might've been how they found out, but could the DEs have really tracked him down to Privet Drive?
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-11-02 04:09 am (UTC)Re: Spells
Date: 2010-11-04 12:41 am (UTC)So I guess we're to assume Dumbles did something to make Harry untraceable or whatever. Or maybe Lily's love was working overtime, who knows. *eyeroll*
Re: Spells
From:Re: Spells
From:Re: Spells
From:Re: Spells
Date: 2010-11-02 04:06 am (UTC)Yes, if any of the others wanted to they could have massacred the entire defending force. But it seems the moment they realized Harry was alive despite everything they decided to come quietly (or perhaps ran away if they managed to avoid being dragged into the Great Hall). The only one who gave any fight was Bellatrix.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 05:43 pm (UTC)Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 02:42 pm (UTC)Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 03:17 pm (UTC)Do you mean in DH?
Tom can't actually burn Neville after that.
Eh? Neville?
It was Voldie who chose Harry, who knows if it would have happened the same way had it been Neville.
But the prohecy spoke of one person didn't it? - Are you saying the 'magic' that created the prophecy already had Harry and Neville in mind or was it talking about one person.
To me it sounds like it's pretty specific in who the child will be. This 'magic' that created the prophecy I don't think it was giving Voldemort an option of which boy to choose was it? Voldie made the option himself of debating on choosing Neville/Harry.
if Voldie had decided the prophecy was nothing then I guess nothin would have happened.
fell between them and got hit by the AK Harry would still be protected.
I'm not sure what you mean here, I don't think I was talking about something falling between the AK spell and harry or that he wouldnt' have been protected.
And I know harry was protected by lily's 'love magic', but to me she still had to die to create the protection because if it happened before she was killed there is no sacrifice there. It would just be two people standing there arguing for forever or Voldie choosing to just walk away.
Re: Spells
Date: 2010-10-31 03:43 pm (UTC)The really odd point is when Tom attempts to Cruciate what he thinks is Harry's body. I'm not sure which protection is at work there.
And I know harry was protected by lily's 'love magic', but to me she still had to die to create the protection because if it happened before she was killed there is no sacrifice there. It would just be two people standing there arguing for forever or Voldie choosing to just walk away.
Huh? If they walk away there is no intent to kill her.