GOF Chapter 3: The Invitation

[oryx_leucoryx]

This is the obligatory Dursley chapter, in which we are treated to the home life of this family and learn how inferior they are to wizard families.

Dudley takes up a whole side of the square kitchen table. Ahem, I doubt a square kitchen table (as opposed to a dining room table) was designed to seat 8 people, 2 on a side. His parents excuse away his teachers' accusations of bullying. As opposed to the Weasleys who never receive reports making such heinous accusations against the twins (we'll see the school does occasionally owl their parents, but I don't see any awareness that some of what the twins do is bullying behavior). (This starts the theme of parents dealing with wayward sons in this book.) Dudley is forced into a diet of fruit and vegetables rather than his favorites. From the descriptions we get of the food Harry eats at Hogwarts I get the feeling Harry's favorites are closer to Dudley's than to the health foods, nor does he limit his intake. But somehow Harry remains thin, regardless of whether he gets starved by Petunia or stuffed by Molly or the House-elves.

Changing the food choices of the entire family is a good thing! However adjusting Harry's serving size to Dudley's (perceived?) emotional needs isn't. I don't begrudge Harry for working around a diet he doesn't need, but then I also sympathize with Dudley who does. Changing eating habits of years is hard.
This is also the place to say Dudley must have grown up as an emotional wreck. Knowing that his parents were capable of such physical and emotional deprivation of someone in their care - what if he ever failed to please them? I think a big part of his misbehavior is both making sure his parents know he *isn't* Harry as well as wanting the reassurance that they still love him, no matter what anyone else thinks.

Of Harry's 4 sources of help only one sends food he appreciates. Odd that even Hagrid managed to send an edible birthday cake. But how edible is it (or any of the others) 3 weeks later?

Harry is surprised that the Weasleys wrote directly to the Dursleys. Vernon is embarrassed that they didn't know how many stamps to use. But really, how hard is it to find out? Didn't they go to the post office to buy the stamps? What does it say about the exchange rate between Galleons and pounds that a family so poor finds it reasonable to spend on so many stamps for one letter? Molly's letter sounds as if she is trying too hard to make the Quidditch World Cup sound special and to make Arthur sound important. And of course she doesn't have enough imagination to realize that sending a letter by owl isn't normal for the Dursleys.

Harry is offended on Molly's behalf when Vernon calls her 'dumpy'. Since Molly likes Harry nobody is allowed to notice she is overweight.

I must say that the scene where Harry threatens Vernon with Sirius looks a lot less humorous now that I have seen Harry enjoy torturing a man for punishment, and Sirius engaging in Muggle-baiting.

If I am correct in my understanding that Ron is claiming that he and Molly wrote their respective letters at about the same time, then I am impressed with the UK post. Molly's letter arrived on Saturday morning. Pig arrived the same morning. Considering the speed of owls elsewhere, it looks as though Ron's letter was sent earlier that morning. So a letter got delivered the morning it was sent?

I am less impressed with the Weasleys. They plan on taking Harry regardless of the Dursleys' consent. One could argue that eventually Molly and Arthur realized their sons were not exaggerating when they said Harry had been imprisoned and starved, but seeing how Arthur views the treatment of Muggles, both in this book and in COS, I doubt this made a difference.

Harry is happy specifically because Dudley is suffering and he isn't. The seeds of the bully of HBP and war criminal of DH.

Comments

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

If I might make a comparison...
There is a Latin class. The students have to translate some Caesar. Everybody has their text, everybody has their Oxford Latin Dictionary.
One student has an old textbook with some marginalia. He cannot understand a key sentence in the text. He looks at the marginalia and sees that the previous owner of the textbook has solved it - in the key parts of every sentence, there is a helpful note scribbled between the lines. He uses it for his own translation. He ends with the best translation in the class and gets praised for it.
Was he cheating?
I´m a Latin teacher. For me, he was. Had I caught him, he would get another, more difficult text - and I´d look to it that the text is pure, without any scribbling. I´d give him another copy of the vocabulary, too, just in case.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Are students allowed to bring in material other than their dictionary? I suspect not; that this is a 'closed book' exam, just so they're all on the level playing field we would have all liked to have seen enforced in HBP.

But there's no such constraint in Slughorn's potions class. Not of which we know for sure in the text.

It's a nice example, but like others here it doesn't reflect the practical nature of Harry's potions classes. I've proffered my old woodwork high school subject as a counter example. We were all given basic training/instructions, all told to 'make this'. But if I used superior instructions that my father had written down for me and that I'd tucked into a pocket ... there's no way I would have been penalised. It was the craftsmanship in the end result which mattered.

Maybe Hogwarts' Potions classes were closer to your latin class. Maybe closer to my 'practical' example. There's nothing in the canon that conclusively shows us; so either of our examples can fit. I think mine's the closest. Particularly since we DO have examples of other styles of Potions class where the students are tested on their grasp of *theory*, such as when they have to brew an antidote to an arbitrary poison. If that was, as Hermione said, a class where the students had to "understand the principles involved", what then does that say about the other ('standard') Potions classes? Why, they're the *practical* ones!

When I consider that, plus the proliferation of library use throughout the books, the fact that Slughorn *encourages* deviation from the supposedly set instructions, that Hermione never stated outright that Harry had cheated (and why) ... all of that summed up says to me that Harry didn't cheat.

[cured4life.livejournal.com]

Are students allowed to bring in material other than their dictionary? I suspect not; that this is a 'closed book' exam, just so they're all on the level playing field we would have all liked to have seen enforced in HBP.

But there's no such constraint in Slughorn's potions class. Not of which we know for sure in the text.


We have no reason to assume in canon Slughorn gave them permission to use other than the standard textbook either.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Sure. It's not certain either way.

So, on that basis, we know that it can't be said that Harry is a cheat.

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

For me, the main difference is in student´s activity or inactivity.
If I catched the student, gave him the more difficult text and he translated it very well, I´d believe him the notes could be his own. (And no, in fact this is normal lesson, not a test. For a test, they wouldn´t have a dictionary - as Harry does not have his Potions book for OWLs.) Then I´d ask him about the very thing I wanted to know in the lesson whether they understood. If he had good answers, if he understood, good. If he had his own theories, I´d be happy. Because it would be a sign that he was thinking about it outside of school.
If you asked your father for instructions and then used them in my class, I´d not think you cheat - you tried to solve a problem, you were active, you went to other sources.
But Harry did not ask anybody. He was handed answers. And used them without thinking. This is why I think it is cheating.
Re: Slughorn, we have no information, as you say. It can be that the students have to follow the textbook, or, as I understand it, that Slughorn want them to think for themselves and come with some theories, try to improve. Maybe the recipes are the most difficult ones and you have to either work very, very precisely (Hermione), or come with some better ideas (young Severus). Harry does neither.
If he asked Hermione (or the Prince or anybody), "Hey, why do you add the mint?" - he would try to understand and it wouldn´t be cheating for me.
If he went to the library and came with some ideas, it would not be cheating for me, because from library, you hardly can bring full better recipe (as I believe that even if Slughorn is lazy, he still uses the best known text), but some principles. This involves thinking, again.
But he did not. He used some notes, without thinking, when his own lazy work showed not to be enough. He did not learn anything. And so, he cheats *himself*. Why to be in an electory class, when you don´t want to learn the stuff at all?

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I think he was in the elective course because it's a prerequisite for the job he wants to do. I know I had to take a few courses I wouldn't normally have chosen because they were necessary to my major. The school where I got my AA didn't give a range of choices for the mathematical requirement so I had a heck of a time there. The school where I got my BA gave choices between mathematics, computer courses and philosophy/logic. I did better with the logic.

Harry isn't really bad at Potions, he just isn't exceptional. He got in the second-highest possible range of scores. (Sorry, I forget which is the highest, O or E.) He isn't as good as Hermione and Hermione isn't as good as the Prince. The difference seems to be, as you mentioned, a compelling interest outside of class where the student looks up information and synthesizes it out of a desire for the subject or for the marks.

For Potions, though, I think Snape's rule of only taking students in the highest range (O?) was better than Slughorn's taking students from the two highest ranges (O and E). The ones with the highest scores are more likely to have a natural interest and talent for the subject and more likely to do what the Prince did, figure out what makes things work together and apply the knowledge.

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

But why is it prerequisite? I think, because an Auror needs knowledge of Potions for his work. (Poisons, Veritaserum etc.)
I agree with majorjune a little bit below. (http://community.livejournal.com/deathtocapslock/120708.html?thread=4884612#t4884612)

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

I think he was in the elective course because it's a prerequisite for the job he wants to do. I know I had to take a few courses I wouldn't normally have chosen because they were necessary to my major.

Yes, passing NEWT-level Potions is a requirement for the Auror job.

But it's rather more than, say, taking a pottery class to fulfill a requirement for one Fine Arts elective to get a Bachelor's in Business Administration.

It is more akin to requiring a Pre-Med student take Advanced Chemistry or Physiology 401, they are subjects that are NECESSARY FOR THE JOB...

The school where I got my BA gave choices between mathematics, computer courses and philosophy/logic. I did better with the logic.

(sigh)...things have really changed since my day...back then, those were considered 3 totally different subjects. One could never substitute a philosophy/logic or computer class for math, you'd have to take Algebra or Calculus or Geometry. Computer classes were considered either a business elective, or their own IT option. And philosophy/logic was, well, Philosophy...

For Potions, though, I think Snape's rule of only taking students in the highest range (O?) was better than Slughorn's taking students from the two highest ranges (O and E). The ones with the highest scores are more likely to have a natural interest and talent for the subject and more likely to do what the Prince did, figure out what makes things work together and apply the knowledge.

Agreed. But the irony is, presumably Slughorn was the instructor back when Snape was a student, so when Snape was a 6th year he would have been with classmates that only got an "E" on their OWLS...

LOL

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

But it's rather more than, say, taking a pottery class to fulfill a requirement for one Fine Arts elective to get a Bachelor's in Business Administration.

I know. I'm not so sure Harry knew (or that Rowling put it together, either.)

...back then, those were considered 3 totally different subjects.

They're under the general heading of "Mathematical/Analytical Reasoning." The logic courses are formula-intensive (If A, then B; if B, then C; therefore, if A then C [IIRC, lol!] and the like.) The computer courses are more programming than business and one can also take two statistics courses. You would need college-level algebra before being able to take these courses.

I agree that Snape would have been in with the E-level students when he was in school. Probably why he only took O-level students, he saw the difference when he was a student.

I don't get it on a fundamental level. To me it would make sense that Snape changed the requirement for practical reasons but, since Our Hero was such a mediocre Everyman, that had to be wrong and another strike against Snape (for potentially dashing Harry's dream to become an Auror.) If the Potions skill was more or less peripheral to an Auror's job, why not just have McGonagall or Hermione gripe about it a little? If it was so necessary to the job, why didn't we see any Aurors using Potions or talking about using Potions on the job? We see three Aurors or former Aurors in the series (Shacklebolt was an Auror, wasn't he?) and none of them say a word one way or another about Potions, the requirement to have NEWT-level Potions, whether it was a goofy requirement (we were shown that the Ministry is sometimes clueless) and nor did they talk to Harry about the need to study up on his Potions because it's so necessary in the job.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

The computer courses are more programming than business

Yep, in my day computer courses were programming (what else would they be), and they were either part of the Business curriculum, or a separate IT curriculum.

If it was so necessary to the job, why didn't we see any Aurors using Potions or talking about using Potions on the job? We see three Aurors or former Aurors in the series (Shacklebolt was an Auror, wasn't he?) and none of them say a word one way or another about Potions

Well we really don't see much of any Auror Action Figures in the series! LOL

From my understanding of Rowling's job description for the Auror position, it sounds sort of like the wizarding equivalent of a detective and a CSI expert...a homicide detective, for instance, might not have to have a degree in chemistry, but he or she better have a good knowledge of various poisons to recognize the effects on a victim.

So an Auror may not have to be a potions expert on the level of a Snape, but they better have a more than good knowledge of not only existing potions, but the theory behind the creation of various types of potions, in case it comes up in an investigation.

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

I didn't take college back then, had to go Hunt and Gather.

You make a good case for an Auror to need a working knowledge of Potions. Too bad it wasn't more evident in the books. If just one of the Aurors in the Order had griped about their day at work, something general that gave an indication...

There are too many "if onlies" in this series.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, in DH for the entire year the trio uses the Polyjuice they got from Moody. Which was the long-lasting variety. That's evidence right there that famous ex-Auror improved potions in his spare time (or in his retirement). :^

[seductivedark.livejournal.com]

Oh, heck. I thought that was just another "I haven't read the books since I wrote them" moment.

[oryx_leucoryx]

I'm sure it was, but half of fan theorizing comes from exploiting such moments. Look what a history of the development of polyjuice one can construct from Rowling's inconsistencies:

In COS Hermione brewed it from the instructions in Moste Potente Potions, which must have been an even older version than the one Horace taught. It takes a month to brew and is good for an hour each time. It requires 2 restricted ingredients - bicorn horn and boomslang skin.

In GOF Peter and Barty brew according to the version they learned at school, which must have been the one in the book Horace used. It only takes a few days (at the most) to brew (which is why Frank Bryce didn't notice any unusual smell), requires only one restricted ingredient (according to Severus only boomslang skin was missing) but like the older version is only good for one hour.

Then in DH we get the new improved version which lasts, well, as long as the plot requires it to. Whether the latest improvement was invented by Severus, Alastor or anyone else, it was either very recent or kept very secret because in GOF Albus was expecting 'Moody''s Polyjuice to lose effectiveness within an hour.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

... Then I´d ask him about the very thing I wanted to know in the lesson whether they understood. If he had good answers ...

That's all well and good, but your example here is now light years distant from the Hogwarts potions classes. In many classes there is no such examination of students' understanding; not their understanding of the standard textboot, nor of any other source of material. It's simply a case of "brew this potion; you'll be graded on the quality of what you produce".

There are other Potions classes where, yes, the students *are* tested on their grasp of the theory. Hermione exults in one case where they're tested on their understanding of poisons, saying that the Prince's book won't help Harry in that case.

You see? In some potions classes the source of instructions is moot; so Harry isn't a cheat.

In others the instructions can't help unless the student has that understanding you favour; in which case the Prince's book wouldn't help Harry anyway. So he's not a cheat there either.

Add the two together and ... Harry's not a cheat. :-)

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Yes, it was the lesson about antidotes, right? Where Harry had no clue at all, then saw "Just show a bezoar down their throats" written in his Prince book, put a bezoar on his desk aaand... got praised for it. ;o))
So, clearly, he did not do the work of the lesson, did he?
He even was not able to remember his very first Potion lesson, when he was questioned about bezoars... nor that one about antidotes, when he had to be photographed instead...
It´s not my fault that Sluggy is a lazy teacher. But even under a lazy teacher, even when one does not get caught, cheating is cheating. ;o))

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Yes, Slughorn let us all down in that one; he shouldn't have let Harry off the hook.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

He looks at the marginalia and sees that the previous owner of the textbook has solved it - in the key parts of every sentence, there is a helpful note scribbled between the lines. He uses it for his own translation. He ends with the best translation in the class and gets praised for it.

As relevant an analogy as my cooking examples... :-)

Obviously we both agree that "the final result" shouldn't be the overriding criteria for judging/grading a student's work.

Another example: in a woodworking class students are given printed instructions on how to build a cabinet. This is an advanced woodworking class, to get into it students had to demonstrate a certain level of skill and knowledge.

All students save one follow the instructions they were given, and end up with adequate cabinets. But one student discovered notes from a student who took the class in a previous year, and by following those notes ends up with a cabinet that is stronger then those made by his classmates. The instructor praises the student for the innovations he thinks the student made solely on his own, not knowing that the student in question actually followed the notes of another student.

The instructor gushes that he hasn't seen such a talented student in years; the student allows the instructor to continue to heap praise on him and hides the fact that he's using someone else's notes.

The student with the notes ends up being considered the best student in class, gets the highest grades, but just continues to use the earlier student's notes without spending any time actually becoming a good woodworker on his own.

The student gets an "A" for the class at the end of the year because the instructor never caught on, most of the rest of the teachers at the school think the student is suddenly a master carpenter because of how much his instructor has raved about his abilities...but once the class has ended, the student can't even fix a broken chair leg.

But because he got such good grades in class, and his teacher raves about him to anyone seeking references, the student ends up as first choice for construction jobs over his fellow ex-classmates, where he's responsible to build structures that people will live or work in...and which end up collapsing because the student never actually LEARNED anything in the master class, only followed someone else's notes without giving those notes any deeper thought, and especially not letting his instructor know that he found someone else's notes that improved upon the original project. The student therefore consistently handed in superior work which the instructor assumed was the student's own innovations.

But hey, it's all about the final result, isn't it?

I don't know about anyone else, but I wouldn't want to live in a house built by someone who'd gone to the head of their class by copying someone else's work. And I sure as hell wouldn't want to go to a doctor who'd gotten thru medical school using someone else's notes to get good grades, but never actually LEARNED anything from said notes!

If it really is nothing but the end product/final result that counts, then it should be perfectly okay to submit term papers written by someone else. What Harry did was no different than if he'd had some other student outside of class brew the potion while Harry just went thru the motions within the classroom, and then just before it's time for Slughorn to grade it, duck out into the hall or open a window to grab the other potion from the other student and present it to Slughorn as his own.

Harry, in using the HBP's recipes, just went thru the motions of making a potion, but it was really Snape who did the work.

[ioanna-ioannina.livejournal.com]

Yes. Exactly. I cannot agree more. It´s all about the final result - and the final result is a pupil who can understand, what and why is he throwing into cauldron. Who cares about single essays and school potions, they are nothing but steps to the final result.
But Harry is not allowed to learn (by his author).
So... *shrugs*
:-))