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[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Am I the only one a little bothered by Dumbledore? Not only with the fact he could end up in the Guinness Book Of World Records for "Most Incompetent Headmaster of All Time" (though I'm sure there's worse. :P), but also because...he just bugs me. I know JKR was trying to write him as the "flawed Yoda", so to speak (and to be fair, he's nowhere near Yoda. XD), but it's also how...preachy he gets. Towards Fudge, for example. You know, in Goblet of Fire, with, "You place too much importance on purity of blood, yadda yadda et cetera et cetera" -- which considering how he treated Tom Riddle and the Slytherins is...slightly hypocritical isn't it? Probably bad writing on JKR's part, though. :/

Anyways, sorry 'bout the rambling. Thoughts?

Comments

[oryx_leucoryx]

Pretty much each time Dumbles opens his mouth to preach or criticize anyone to their face he is being either hypocritical, self-deluded, completely misses the point or some combination of the above.

Like telling Severus off about mourning Lily - that like him the Potters trusted the wrong person. Well, the person Severus trusted was you, Albus! (Had he trusted Tom's word would he have met Albus on the hilltop and promised him 'Anything'?)

Or telling Petunia off for her treatment of Harry, as if he couldn't have prevented the whole mess, or as if his plans did not benefit from it?

Or telling young Tom that he had been using his magic in ways that are not acceptable at Hogwarts when he was teaching Transfiguration, where students do unspeakable harm to animals or when he as headmaster let students bully each other with no intervention.

Oh, and he warns Harry that Horace may try to 'collect' him - as if he hadn't been doing the same thing all along.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

This, just this! :D

"Or telling young Tom that he had been using his magic in ways that are not acceptable at Hogwarts when he was teaching Transfiguration, where students do unspeakable harm to animals or when he as headmaster let students bully each other with no intervention."

It's Okay If A Gryffindor Does It? :P

But yeah, I understand what you mean. :3

[sunnyskywalker]

Telling Tom they have rules about good conduct at school is nonsensical when you look at everything they let kids do there.

I wonder if his rant to Snape was a bit of projection? After all, his dabble with the dark side and trusting a dark wizard is what got his sister killed. Wizards rarely seem to move on from anything, so maybe he's still working out his issues there, with Snape as proxy. Ditto Slughorn, because you're right, Dumbledore operates very similarly, right down to having an organization of people he's helped and who now do him favors in return.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

That...actually makes a sick amount of sense.

*Jots it down*

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

I wonder if his rant to Snape was a bit of projection? After all, his dabble with the dark side and trusting a dark wizard is what got his sister killed. Wizards rarely seem to move on from anything, so maybe he's still working out his issues there, with Snape as proxy.

I read this as projection right from the start. Snape, Slughorn, and Grindelwald really are the only people interested in (or capable of) self-reflection, aren't they?

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

This, just this. Seriously...when your villains come off more honorable and interesting than the "heroes"...it's probably time to go through some revision. :/

Albus + Severus 4Ever

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

I wonder if his rant to Snape was a bit of projection?

That, too. I always suspected Dumbledore may have been attracted to Snape, and that's one reason he treated the younger man so badly. That is, instead of blaming himself for being attracted to smart, daring, "bad boy dark wizards," he blamed Snape for being attractive. And by rejecting and beating down Severus, he was also rejecting and beating down his own lustful feelings.

After all, his dabble with the dark side and trusting a dark wizard is what got his sister killed.

It's actually worse than that. There's no question that Albus himself killed Ariana. I don't remember the exact quotation, but in DH 35 there's some line like this: "Harry didn't want to ask DD who had killed Ariana, and DD didn't want to tell him." There would have been no reason to avoid the subject if somebody else could be blamed for her death.

Re: Albus + Severus 4Ever

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"That, too. I always suspected Dumbledore may have been attracted to Snape, and that's one reason he treated the younger man so badly. That is, instead of blaming himself for being attracted to smart, daring, "bad boy dark wizards," he blamed Snape for being attractive. And by rejecting and beating down Severus, he was also rejecting and beating down his own lustful feelings."

Holy crap, *this*! :D

*Adds to personal head canon*

Re: Albus + Severus 4Ever

[sunnyskywalker]

It's probably a double whammy - Snape could represent both Grindlewald and young Dumbledore to Dumbledore in different ways. Shift the blame onto the bad boy dark wizards for every inclination (lustful or otherwise) he doesn't like to recognize in himself.

Re: Albus + Severus 4Ever

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*Jots idea down*

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

When Horace "collects" some one it is" you help me and I will help you.

With Dumbledore it is: you help me and I will help you if it is convenient for me or helping you benefits me/my plans goals. If I need to ruin your life - well it is for "The Greater Good", so you have no right to refuse or complain.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

*This*, so very much! :D

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Pretty much each time Dumbles opens his mouth to preach or criticize anyone to their face he is being either hypocritical, self-deluded, completely misses the point or some combination of the above.

QFT.

Like telling Severus off about mourning Lily - that like him the Potters trusted the wrong person. Well, the person Severus trusted was you, Albus!

I was tempted to scratch this line up to Dumbledore's manipulative skills: saying the most hurtful thing possible in order to throw Snape off balance and make him easier to exploit. Dumbledore knows just which buttons to push. Except when he doesn't. The "sort too soon" thing was another brutal remark...intended as a compliment. IDEK.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

"Dumbledore knows just which buttons to push."

Voldemort really looks like a kitten dipped in milk beside Dumbledore, doesn't he? :P

And really...let's say the "sort too soon" line was a backhanded compliment and leave it at that. :/

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

The "sort too soon" thing was another brutal remark...intended as a compliment. IDEK.

No, it wasn't a compliment. It was a cruel jibe designed to hurt Snape terribly. I'll elaborate below, but there's no doubt in my mind that Dumbledore is a narcissistic psychopath. I have two of them in my immediate family, so I recognize the behavior. The casually tossed off "compliment," "joke" (his implications Aberforth screws goats and may be illiterate), or neutral appearing remark is classic psychopathic verbal abuse. It's so carefully disguised that unless you're used to it, you don't even recognize it.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Interesting -- I hadn't considered that it might have been deliberate. But I'm not entirely convinced. Dumbledore uses cruelty to manipulative ends, not in this potentially counterproductive way. The time to twist knives is not when he'll soon have to persuade Snape to spy on Voldemort. He must know that much.

The vibe i get is that Dumbledore is honestly impressed with Snape for the first time. Courage is THE virtue in DD-land. So he pays what to him is the biggest compliment of all: You're so brave you could have been a Gryffindor! To understand that his words are in fact devastating, he'd have to know not just how strongly Snape still feels about Lily (which he doesn't -- "After all this time?"), but also that Snape imagines being in Gryffindor would have made all the difference. I don't think Dumbledore's got Snape figured out quite that precisely. From what we've seen, he needs a hint to show him where to dig in his claws.

I'm mostly startled that Dumbledore doesn't grasp what a freaking rude thing it is to say to a Slytherin, but he does have a weird case of intermittent foot in mouth disease. Look what a hash he made of convincing Fudge that Voldemort was back.

Or, I could be overthinking wildly and the only point of "Sort too soon" was to show us Snape's wounds are still open. Like, McGonagall or Flitwick or anyone could have said it but in the context it had to be Dumbledore.

[ladyhadhafang.livejournal.com]

Maybe. :) We can never quite be sure. :/