OOTP Chapter Nine: "The Woes of Mrs. Weasley"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

* Mr. Weasley insists that they couldn’t have found Harry guilty based on the evidence. Why do all these people maintain their faith in the wizarding justice system? This applies double for Mr. Weasley, since he (a) has the example of Sirius for someone who was wrongfully convicted, and (b) helps petty criminals evade justice on a regular basis.

* “Muggle-baiting might strike some wizards as funny.” Possibly because they’ve got relatives whose first response to Muggle-related problems is to wipe their memories, eh, Arthur?

* Lucius Malfoy again showing off his dislike for Harry in the most ridiculously unsubtle way. Remind me again, where did he get his reputation for Machiavellian cunning from?

* Mr. Malfoy is, of course, quite right that Arthur spends a lot of his time “sneaking Muggle artefacts home and bewitching them”; once again, though, we’re expected to treat him like a horrible person for pointing out the truth.

* We’re probably meant to infer from the clinking of gold that Mr. Malfoy was trying to bribe the Minister, but I don’t think so. After all, a cunning politician such as Lucius wouldn’t just carry his bribe around like… Actually, wait, no, let’s not forget that this is a JK Rowling book, after all. Of course her characters would go around doing stupid things like that.

* Personally speaking, I’d rather manipulate the government by making generous donations to charity than by perverting the course of justice, but hey, that’s just me.

* “Dumbledore thinks that Fudge is acting of his own accord at the moment” – given that this is the man who failed to notice that one of his staff members was an impostor for the best part of an academic year, I’m not sure we can really trust his opinion on this matter.

* Again people seem to be assuming that wizards give a toss for due process and the rule of law, despite the overwhelming evidence to the contrary.

* Ron seems happy that Dumbledore’s intervention got Harry off, as opposed to worried that simply having a celebrity on your side is enough to swing it for you, or about what happens to people who Dumbledore doesn’t believe (guess he can ask Sirius about that last one).

* Fred and George’s chant is really annoying. If I didn’t know better, I’d assume they were twelve rather than seventeen.

* Once again, I can’t help but think that living in No. 12 can’t be worse than Sirius' experiences in Azkaban. Nevertheless, it is No. 12 that makes him all surly and moody, whereas he manages to stay (relatively) sane in Azkaban. Consistency? What’s that?

* It’s not surprising that Dumbledore can’t find anyone to fill the Defence post “when you look at what happened to the last four”. Err, shouldn’t that be the last twenty or so at least? (I don’t think we’re ever told exactly when Voldemort curses the DADA position, but it has to be before he starts his anti-Ministry war, which in turn must be a few years before Harry was born. Which makes me think – wasn’t it a bit irresponsible of Lily and James to have a child whilst involved on covert work for the Order of the Phoenix? They could have got killed at any time, and then who would look after the baby?)

* “‘Ron?’ said Hermione, her jaw dropping. ‘But… are you sure?’” Well done, Hermione, way to make Ron feel proud of his achievement. Clearly that girl respects him a lot. Of such things successful relationships are made.

* If the Weasleys can afford to buy Ron a new broom for becoming prefect, they either (a) don’t have much financial sense, or (b) aren’t as poor as they make everybody think.

* Nice to see Fred and George undermining Ron like that even before he gets to school. What a charming pair they are.

* Note how Hermione’s speaking “tentatively”, as if she’s worried Harry will lose his temper again. How on earth could the Prophet possibly make him look unbalanced?

* If Harry had thought about it, he’d have expected Dumbledore to make him a prefect. Well, I suppose being treated like the centre of the universe for four years is likely to do that to someone.

* Harry thinks indignantly that Ron and Hermione didn’t do as much as him, forgetting that this was usually because they’d already been injured helping him.

* It’s sad, but this probably is the first time Ron’s beaten Harry at something. And the last time. And even this time, Dumbledore later says that he’d have given the prefecture to Harry if Harry didn’t have so much to worry about anyway, so it doesn’t really count. Still, enjoy it while you can, Weasley: it’s the closest you’ll get to beating Harry at something. Ever.

* “I never thought it would be me! I thought it would be you!” Why is everyone acting like Ron and Harry are the only two boys in Gryffindor House? What about Neville, Dean and Seamus? Couldn’t Dumbledore have given the badge to one of them?

* Probably a good idea for Ron to lock his prefect badge away, given what Fred and George used to do to Percy’s.

* The trouble with using fantastic racism as a stand-in for real racism, as JKR seems to be doing with Hermione’s views on house-elves and werewolves, is that Potterverse races literally are different in a way that real-world races aren’t. Segregating people because of their skin colour = wrong. Segregating people because they regularly turn into dangerous animals = rather sensible, actually. Similarly with house-elves: they (or at least all of them apart from Dobby) literally want to be slaves, and literally cannot cope without a master or mistress telling them what to do. If Rowling wants to make some heavy-handed points about racism, she should probably find better analogues.

* “It all stems from this horrible thing wizards have of thinking they’re superior to other creatures,” says the girl who’ll end the series mind-wiping her parents and sending them to Australia.

* Buying illegal products in the same room as everybody else seems a bit incautious, I must say. Couldn’t they at least go to another room to do it?

* So even Kingsley is assuming that Harry was the natural choice for the prefecture, despite his insularity and lack of any real leadership skills whatsoever.

* I wonder if anybody deliberately buys brooms where the vibration control’s a bit dodgy…?

* The people in the photo have no idea they’re dead, unlike Percy, whose picture apparently knows that he’s had an argument with his father… Consistency? What consistency?

* This boggart scene just serves to illustrate how bad Lupin’s lesson on them in Book 3 was. “Defeat boggarts with laugher” is all very well when it turns into a variety of wacky monsters, but it’s quite hard to see the funny side in – say – all your family being horribly murdered.

* And now the long slog through the pre-Hogwarts chapters is finally over. Doing this read-through, I can’t help but think that OOTP is disgracefully padded.

 

Comments

[fishinginthemud.livejournal.com]

Lucius Malfoy again showing off his dislike for Harry in the most ridiculously unsubtle way. Remind me again, where did he get his reputation for Machiavellian cunning from?

He doesn't scream, cry, bellow, or lob third-grade insults at people every few minutes.

[lynn-waterfall.livejournal.com]

(chuckle)

But also, *should* Lucius be *trying* to hide his dislike of Harry in this scene? Keep in mind that just now, the Ministry (and particularly the Minister) is solidly against Harry. Why should he be any more positive to Harry than the politician he's with?

Even elsewhere, though, why would the WW expect Lucius to like Harry? Even if Lucius had been under the Imperius, he still isn't pro-Dumbledore. (I think the people here would agree that you can be anti-Dumbledore without being pro-Voldemort. ;) ) Harry is absolutely pro-Dumbledore, and all that entails politically.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Hmm yeah, didn't think about that. Still, I'd have expected him to at least be nice to him before GOF, when Harry was still a hero to the WW. It wouldn't have done any harm, at any rate, whereas being seen to obviously dislike the saviour of the WW might have lost him a bit of support.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Which makes me think – wasn’t it a bit irresponsible of Lily and James to have a child whilst involved on covert work for the Order of the Phoenix? They could have got killed at any time, and then who would look after the baby?)

You think someone as conservative as JKR believes in birth control? Every right-thinking woman wants babies, we all know that.

* This boggart scene just serves to illustrate how bad Lupin’s lesson on them in Book 3 was. “Defeat boggarts with laugher” is all very well when it turns into a variety of wacky monsters, but it’s quite hard to see the funny side in – say – all your family being horribly murdered.

And again we lose consistency, as the boggart simply vanishes rather than turning into anything funny.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

"You think someone as conservative as JKR believes in birth control? Every right-thinking woman wants babies, we all know that."

Oh yes, silly me. Although the right-wing tabloids do get rather annoyed when they see people having children they can't look after properly, so...

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

And again we lose consistency, as the boggart simply vanishes rather than turning into anything funny.

Not to mention that in PoA they were all ridiculous things like mummies and banshees, instead of, say, the uncle who molested them.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Note how Hermione’s speaking “tentatively”, as if she’s worried Harry will lose his temper again. How on earth could the Prophet possibly make him look unbalanced?

Lol. Sometimes I wonder if Harry's really a patient in a ward for the violently insane, and this is a hint of reality bleeding through....

Once again, I can’t help but think that Sirius’ experiences in Azkaban can’t be worse than living in No. 12. Nevertheless, it is No. 12 that makes him all surly and moody, whereas he manages to stay (relatively) sane in Azkaban. Consistency? What’s that?

I think you mean that Azkaban must have been worse? Otherwise it IS consistent (consistently illogical, that is).

I wonder if anybody deliberately buys brooms where the vibration control’s a bit dodgy…?

Rofl!

RE the racism thing: I have many, many problems with Rowling's various attempts to hit us over the head with badly-thought-out analogues of real-world prejudices (while conveniently ignoring the possible impact of those other real prejudices in the story). The Muggleborn issue, the house-elf issue, etc. are IMHO are all badly handled. That said, I think she does slightly better wrt the werewolf issue, because it for one thing isn't *quite* so screamingly obvious an allegory/attempt to 'say something' (in comparison to the others, that is). It actually works fairly well within the context of the fantasy scenario she sets up and makes a certain amount of sense in relation to that, rather than only within the context of allegorizing our world. But it also isn't meant to speak to *racism* specifically, IMHO. It's a closer parallel (though not perfect) to the shunning of people with communicable diseases like AIDS, but thankfully she doesn't seem to be focusing on 'saying something' about AIDS specifically, and so she doesn't muck it up by trying to control it too much.

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

"I think you mean that Azkaban must have been worse?"

Whoops! Thanks for pointing out that one; I'll go and fix it now...

[karentheunicorn.livejournal.com]

Which makes me think – wasn’t it a bit irresponsible of Lily and James to have a child whilst involved on covert work for the Order of the Phoenix? They could have got killed at any time, and then who would look after the baby?)

Yea, well if you look at the math aspect of it, Lily would have gotten pregnant while she was 19 years old.

Thats not really hugely unusual in a lot of situations but I would like to know if they were 'married' or was this why they got married (LOL!)

They were both full time order members, not just James. So what should we believe, that they got married right out of Hogwarts? They started dating in 7th year, and since she got pregnant at 19 - it looks to me like they were not practiciing safe sex at all.

I mean it's hard toi start throwing swords at the situation because I know people who have made this kind of mistake. But then again I don't know anyone who was a target by a wizard so the situation is kinda different from real life sitautions. One would think being that Lily was also involved as a potential target of the Death Eaters and Voldemort - one would think Lily would have been a lot more careful about getting pregnant.

It's not very responsible without a war going on, with a war...well, it just kinda makes them look stupid.

I would almost rather think of it as a accident instead of planned, so I kinda hope Harry was an accident. If it was planned then they're the dumbest two people in the whole series. If it was an accident, it just means they can loose 25% of that stupidity and just go with they were horny and OPPS.

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

Thats not really hugely unusual in a lot of situations but I would like to know if they were 'married' or was this why they got married (LOL!)

People here DO realize that Rowling was pregnant when she got married the first time, right?

So in her world, a woman only has any sort of worth if she is married; marriage means having children. A single woman who finds herself preggers better get herself married ASAP.

A single woman without children who opts to remain single = evil. A single woman who has at least one child and who chooses to remain single, or divorces = the Cause Of The Destruction Of The World As It Is Currently Known...

[danajsparks.livejournal.com]

huh... there are so many fanfics out there that have Lily and James falling in love in the seventh year that it never crossed my mind that they may have gotten married due to an unplanned pregnancy after a one night stand.

But... that would make a lot of sense!

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

*snort* Very true.
And it would be amusing if Harry the accidental Hero / Chosen is a accidental baby too. XD
But more seriously both Potter and Longbottom pair show a incredible lack of common sense.
Well o.k. Weasley pair also lack any family planning skills but Potter and Longbottom pairs were both on Voldy's "to kill" list.
So, why start breeding straight off?

The only thing that would make sense to me, would be if the DD knew about the prophecy before Harry and Nevil were conceived and dosed both pairs with lust&fertility potions. :D

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

I thought that Harry was an accident all along, but I also thought that Rowling had attempted to argue otherwise.

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

/Which makes me think – wasn’t it a bit irresponsible of Lily and James to have a child whilst involved on covert work for the Order of the Phoenix? They could have got killed at any time, and then who would look after the baby?/

Given that the same thing happened to Remus and Tonks, I guess that either there is no such thing as birth control in the wizarding world or both couples forgot about it for some reason.

/* “‘Ron?’ said Hermione, her jaw dropping. ‘But… are you sure?’” Well done, Hermione, way to make Ron feel proud of his achievement. Clearly that girl respects him a lot. Of such things successful relationships are made./

And Hermione wondered why Ron went out with Lavender in HBP. And Harry wondered why Ron was secretly afraid that Hermione preferred him in DH. Is everybody out to make Ron feel insecure?

/* If the Weasleys can afford to buy Ron a new broom for becoming prefect, they either (a) don’t have much financial sense, or (b) aren’t as poor as they make everybody think./

Especially since they didn't bother to buy him a new wand in CoS.

/* If Harry had thought about it, he’d have expected Dumbledore to make him a prefect. Well, I suppose being treated like the centre of the universe for four years is likely to do that to someone./

I remember being so confused when reading this section for the first time, because I didn't think that it fit with the old Harry at all. The old Harry didn't care about becoming a prefect and didn't like being the center of attention. So, why is Harry feeling so jealous of Ron now?

/Why is everyone acting like Ron and Harry are the only two boys in Gryffindor House? What about Neville, Dean and Seamus? Couldn’t Dumbledore have given the badge to one of them?/

That's what I thought, too. I thought that maybe Dean or Seamus would have been a better choice.

/* So even Kingsley is assuming that Harry was the natural choice for the prefecture, despite his insularity and lack of any real leadership skills whatsoever./

Because he's the Boy-Who-Lived? *sighs* Just because he's the person who's supposed to beat Voldemort doesn't mean that he's a great student. Not everything revolves around Voldemort.

[fishinginthemud.livejournal.com]

I remember being so confused when reading this section for the first time, because I didn't think that it fit with the old Harry at all. The old Harry didn't care about becoming a prefect and didn't like being the center of attention. So, why is Harry feeling so jealous of Ron now?

He spent the entire summer thinking about how he'd been jacked for the attention and adoration he deserved for inexplicably escaping Voldemort yet again. Besides, he's never really doubted that he's better than Ron, for all his wangsting about how he's not arrogant like Malfoy. Usually, Ron doesn't get uppity about being the beta, so Harry never really felt threatened by him until now. If one of the other Gryffindor boys had become prefect, it might not have bothered him as much, but Ron is Harry's sidekick, and he's not supposed to outshine him. It's just not done.

[wolf-willow31.livejournal.com]

house-elves: they literally want to be slaves, and literally cannot cope without a master or mistress

Hermione's heavy-handed attempt to free the elves reminds me of animal-rights extremists who think you should turn your housepets and livestock loose because it's "not right to exploit them". That's right, just toss out your Jack Russell terrier in the dead of winter. And stop milking those cows! They'll all really appreciate it, if they survive long enough to get used to it. Ditto for those elves!

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

Oh man! I totally just made the Animal Rights Activist argument in my comment! X3

[sunnyskywalker]

Which only goes to show how REALLY BADLY this works as an analogy for racism, which is how she set it up. If she'd set it up as a parallel to animal rights, it would probably be fine. But she explicitly set it up as the enslavement of sentient creatures... and then concluded that they liked it. Which if you take the analogy back around to the original it's supposed to remind you of, is just... ick.

[darth-eldritch.livejournal.com]

We’re probably meant to infer from the clinking of gold that Mr. Malfoy was trying to bribe the Minister, but I don’t think so. After all, a cunning politician such as Lucius wouldn’t just carry his bribe around like… Actually, wait, no, let’s not forget that this is a JK Rowling book, after all. Of course her characters would go around doing stupid things like that.

* Personally speaking, I’d rather manipulate the government by making generous donations to charity than by perverting the course of justice, but hey, that’s just me.

Yes, I would like to think Lucius is that smart and cunning. He didn't get rich(er) by being an idiot.

Ron Defense Time!

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

It’s sad, but this probably is the first time Ron’s beaten Harry at something. And the last time.
Ron's had a really difficult life, and this is the book that proved it for me. It made me a Ron fan. Just look at the interactions he has with Fred and George. This is commonplace.

I know a lot of people don't like Ron, but just look at this book, this chapter especially. People have accused Ron of being lazy, unambitious, having no emotions, and being a big stupid boy. It's just not true.

Look at how Fred and George needle him out of jealousy. Look at how they treat Percy. Imagine Ron having to grow up with two older brothers that will not hesitate to bother, torture and torment people that stand out or that get more attention than they do or that cross them. He saw it happening with Percy, so what's he going to learn? He'll learn to shut up unless he wants to have something happen to him. He'll learn that standing out positively is rewarded with cruelty.

I can understand how Mrs. Weasley could not have fully protected him from those two. Not all the time, not while trying to also care for Ginny, keeping up with her other kids in school, and running the household. Worst of all, punishing F&G doesn't seem to do anything. Those two just don't care/they crave the attention, negative or positive. The best thing she could've done would be to give them no attention, but that's so against her nature that unfortunately she just fed the monsters.

No emotions? Is it really difficult to understand that sensitivity wouldn't be encouraged in young Ron? He's got these two bullies that only want a reaction out of him. If he cries, it'll only encourage them. Any reaction is encouraging to them, but he has to go with anger. It's a survival thing- puff yourself up, make yourself look bigger than you are so the predator messes with you a little less.

Look at the pride Ron's showing in his badge. The desire to do well is there. He likes the good feeling that comes with it, but he's been hard-wired since birth that it's better to be "middle of the pack".

In later chapters, I know you'll have to point out the way the power makes Ron behave, Diddled, so I just want to start on the defense now. It's all Ron knows. It's all he's been taught. It's a huge character flaw, but it's what makes him so human. Rowling did develop this in the book, but only accidentally. We're never going to get a good look at Ron's psychology except through these hints because it's, as usual, All About Harry. Ron's flawed, but I hope we remember that he has a reason why he's got those flaws. It doesn't excuse him, but it really explains him.

So yeah... that's why I defend Ron.

Re: Ron Defense Time!

[aikaterini.livejournal.com]

I agree - it's really horrible how the twins torment Percy and then Ron for daring to succeed at something. Come to think of it, how come they haven't treated Harry like that? He certainly stands out and Molly certainly dotes on him more than the rest of the family. Is it because he's technically not related to them and they don't have to see him every day? Is it because he's an orphan who has to deal with Voldemort and they figure that that's a reason to back off?

But yes, I also think that Ron gets too much flack, from the movies, from the books, and from fans. He's not my favorite character, but I do feel sorry for him. He's insecure, but with good reason, since hardly anyone truly appreciates him.

Re: Ron Defense Time!

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

Aww, you've just made me feel more sympathetic to Ron in that one post than Rowling did in seven novels. Poor Ron. :'( And well done -- I suppose this proves that you're officially a better writer than Rowling. :)

[harpsi-fizz.livejournal.com]

I ought to just collect a list of all of the good points you come up with. The things nobody else thinks of and that I didn't think of until you brought them up. Weasley, since he (a) has the example of Sirius for someone who was wrongfully convicted Man, how did I miss that?! It's... it's a massive characterization hole!

Remind me again, where did he get his reputation for Machiavellian cunning from?
You know how Homer Simpson wants his beers cold and his homosexuals flaming? Well Rowling thinks we need our foils to be glaringly obvious. Quirrell was the one exception.
See, Diddled, everything in life will be nice and easy. All of your bad guys will be very obvious, people won't be duplicitous forever, and you will marry your childhood sweetheart. Hoo-ray.

Fred and George’s chant is really annoying.
You don't know the half of it. I only have the audio books.

Similarly with house-elves: they (or at least all of them apart from Dobby) literally want to be slaves, and literally cannot cope without a master or mistress telling them what to do.
Ah! Another point of order in Ron Defense here- Hermione really was out of line with how she treated Ron in the house elf matter. I hope you planned on bringing it up in your reviews, Diddled.
I mean, Ron grew up in the Wizard World where this was commonplace and Hermione expects him to change his viewpoint overnight? She expects to be able to shout at him and he'll see the light?

How would she like it if someone told her that owning Crookshanks was wrong and slavery and that all cats and dogs should be free? Or that sending children to school was wrong because it isn't human nature to be forced to learn through books only, not through exploration? It'd take her a while to adjust to this new kind of thinking- if she agreed to it at all. Shouting at her and forcing views on her wouldn't work.
(Sorry, Brad! I'm not trying to dis Hermione here, I'm just saying that this is a character flaw. But remember- character flaws are good! So long as we call them what they are, that is.)

[fishinginthemud.livejournal.com]

How would she like it if someone told her that owning Crookshanks was wrong and slavery and that all cats and dogs should be free?

I could see her just setting him free. She's one of the few characters in the books who at least tries to be logically consistent. She's definitely capable of heinous hypocrisy when it's convenient to her, but I can see her freeing the cat just to make a point.

[dracasadiablo.livejournal.com]

Why do all these people maintain their faith in the wizarding justice system?
It's sad but that doesn't surprise me at all. :(
We are talking about a circle of DD's conditioned to obey and don't question supporters.
That they have faith in such a horribly corrupted system is easily belivable if you know they believe in "wise and kind" DD too.

Mr. Malfoy is, of course, quite right that Arthur spends a lot of his time “sneaking Muggle artefacts home and bewitching them”; once again, though, we’re expected to treat him like a horrible person for pointing out the truth.
Naturally. Arthur is nice to Harry, loyal to DD and former Gryffindor. Thinking that his abuse of law and power he has is abhorrent = mark of evil. :(

Harry thinks indignantly that Ron and Hermione didn’t do as much as him, forgetting that this was usually because they’d already been injured helping him.
And that the only reason he got that far is because they supported him or fed him information.

Segregating people because they regularly turn into dangerous animals = rather sensible
Yes. I agree that treating werewolf like inferiors is not alright. But wanting to be faraway from them on the full moon nights?
Especially if they are so irresponsible they can't be bothered to drink the potion?
That's only sensible.

I wonder if anybody deliberately buys brooms where the vibration control’s a bit dodgy…?
Lol! Probably Fred and Gorge the inventors of Patented Daydream Charm made something like that.