GOF Chapter 24: Rita Skeeter's Scoop

[oryx_leucoryx]

Hermione is too sensible to bother with straightening her hair on a regular basis. Ron and Hermione are willing to keep the peace for the sake of Harry (and the plot) - oddly mature of them.

Hermione thinks views of giants are 'just' prejudice, and with that she proves how naive she is, just like about the elf issue. Though perhaps a giant that rejected giant culture (whether willingly or under duress) might be considered worthy to save her life.

Finally Harry starts doing something about the egg, but completely ignores Cedric's hint. Anybody trying to help Harry with something has to be very direct. This problem will be repeated with worse outcome next year, with Sirius' mirror.

Oh, Hagrid isn't there to teach. Professor Grubbly-Plank replaces him. The Slytherins are gleeful and not surprised. Draco lets Harry snatch the paper with Rita's revelations about Hagrid.

Let's see:

Hagrid was expelled in 3rd year - true.
Hagrid admits to said expulsion - true.
Hagrid has been gamekeeper since then - well it seems he was gamekeeper's assistant for about half of that time, so mostly true.
The position of gamekeeper was the result of Dumbles' intervention - probably true. At least that's what Hagrid says himself.
Hagrid was appointed COMC teacher over better qualified candidates - we see at least one such better-qualified person in Grubbly-Plank, so true.
This appointment was the result of 'mysterious influence' Hagrid has over Dumbles - speculation. (I'd say Dumbles just wanted to give his staunchest and blindest admirer more time with Harry.) Not true.
Hagrid is alarmingly large and ferocious-looking - true.
Hagrid has been terrifying his students and maiming them with horrific creatures - mostly true.
Draco was attacked by hippogriff - true.
Crabbe was bitten by flobberworm - not true (note that this is presented as a direct quote from Draco, so if he actually said it Rita isn't lying in reporting his words)
Draco says 'we all' hate Hagrid and are afraid to say so - the hatred is true, depending on whom is included in 'we all'. Though he isn't really afraid of saying so.
Hagrid admitted to breeding the skrewts illegally - he may indeed have. He tells Harry Rita was very interested in them during her interview with him.
Hagrid pretended to be a pureblood wizard - we don't know, though he never mentioned his giant heritage before and neither Ron nor Draco seem to have suspected it.
Hagrid's mother is the giantess Fridwulfa - true.
Internal warfare killed most of British giants - possible.
A handful of them joined Voldie's ranks - what does this mean? Did any of them have Dark marks or were they external supporters like Fenrir and perhaps other werewolves?
Giants were responsible for some of the worst Muggle killings - I though Muggles were mostly killed by DEs, for fun? I no longer know whether to believe Rita or Bill Weasley.
Many giants were killed by Aurors, but not Fridwulfa. She may have escaped to a giant community. Well, we know she had Grawp at some point. (How can a giant community last if they keep offing one another? I doubt we know all there is to know about them.)
Hagrid developed a friendship with Harry - true.
Dumbles should be warned about Hagrid - believe me, he knows. And doesn't care Hagrid may occasionally endanger students, as long as Harry keeps hearing Hagrid's praise of Dumbles.

In summary: The article is almost entirely true. The few untrue things are presented either as speculation or as a direct quote by someone else.

Parvati is disloyal by preferring a COMC teacher who does a decent job (and she is correct that losing his teaching position doesn't leave him jobless). But even Hermione prefers Grubbly-Plank. How dare she? At least Hermione does the decent thing of bending under Harry's pressure - yes, she wants Hagrid back as a terrible teacher, of course she does!

But the big question is how did Rita discover Hagrid's secret without being seen? (And yes, she is close to the truth, Rita did overhear Hagrid at the ball.)

Alas, Hagrid ignores the kids when they come to see him.

A nice example for Terri's thesis about Hogwarts discipline that I linked in chapter 18 (as well as her vision of Slytherin student culture from her fic): Draco taunts Harry only when there are teachers around, because that's allowed, but responding with violence or magic is punishable. I think in OOTP after the Quidditch match he managed to overdo the taunting to the point neither Harry nor George cared about punishment anymore.)

Harry lies to Hermione about his progress with the egg because he hopes to meet Hagrid in Hogsmeade. Er, if Hagrid is avoiding everyone why would he go to Hogsmaeade when students are there?

On the way there they see Viktor jumping into the lake. I remember when I first read this it reminded me of the places where this is done as a New Years tradition. But of course this means Viktor (like Cedric) figured out the egg's message and was working on his Transfiguration. (And Ron hopes the giant squid will take care of Viktor. Nice of him. And completely different from Draco wishing Slytherin's monster would kill Hermione.) Well, Viktor proved his worthiness to Hermione by saying he liked Hogwarts better than Durmstrang. And Ron broke his Viktor figurine. Oh, what a love triangle. But really, Viktor treats Hermione nicely, Hermione thinks well of him, they have enough to talk about to have a correspondence that lasts into the following year at least - why does she drop him for Ron of all people? (Because she smells Ron in the Amortentia. Hermione/Ron is all about hormones, no substance.)

Bagman (the mastermind!) is at the Three Broomsticks. With angry goblins. Why is he here? Well, the only way Harry can get a clue about his agenda is if he conducts his shady meetings where Harry (and half of the Hogwarts school body) is bound to show up. Oh, he wants a word with Harry. He reveals that Crouch Sr has been absent for weeks and Percy says he is ill. (Note that Percy is just saying what he knows - and that people outside Crouch's department are well aware of the latter's absence. Percy isn't pretending Crouch is in his office but too busy to see anyone. Also, note that Ludo doesn't think there is anything odd about Crouch's absence - so either the illness story really looks convincing or Ludo doesn't care or he really is the one who set these events in motion in the first place so obviously he isn't surprised, nor does he want anyone else to be.) If Rita found out about the absence she'd say Crouch went missing, like Bertha Jorkins. Well, that's not far from the truth. Was that a slip from the mastermind of the plot?

Ludo is finally conducting a search for the lost employee from his own department. Turns out Bertha visited one relative but disappeared on her way to another's home. And she's not the type to elope (why else would a woman disappear? the sexism).

OK, what Ludo really wanted was to give Harry a clue. Because he likes him. And supports a champion from Hogwarts. But not the official one. Harry doesn't want an unfair advantage, does he? He's selective about only receiving help from people he likes (even if they are teachers, like Hagrid and 'Moody', from whom he is explicitly not allowed to receive help). Now Ludo is refusing a drink from the twins. Is that because like Harry he realized to be suspicious with their offerings? (Or just avoiding their demands to be paid in real money for that bet.)

Hermione thinks Albus wouldn't have liked Ludo persuading Harry to cheat? Since when is Dumbles opposed to cheating by Harry?

Ron thinks Percy is trying to slowly poison Crouch so he could take over the department. Like fan theories about Severus and Sirius in OOTP.

Rita is there. And seems like she is considering investigating Bagman at the moment. But Harry confronts her about the Hagrid story, while Hermione calls her on her general method. Rita hints she already knows something about Ludo (indeed, she reported from his trial). Though it seems her plan was to get Ludo to lose his job rather quickly. I wonder how that was supposed to work. But now Rita found her next target. Indeed, Harry already sees her quill at work. But even before we see anything else from her, Hermione decides to get Rita, somehow. I believe this is where Hermione's other transformation begins. That's where she develops her vengeful streak, which we will see more of next year (and from which she doesn't recover in canon.) Naively Hermione thinks the only people whose opinion of her matters are her parents. Little does she know.

She decides its her duty to force Hagrid out of his sulk. Well, Albus is there too. Finally, almost 2 weeks after Rita's article, he is there to show some support to a member of his staff. Oh, and he brought with him countless of supportive letters from parents. Who remember Hagrid as groundskeeper (or the assistant to one), not as a teacher. Also, Albus receives complaints about the running of the school weekly. But ignores them all, of course. How would anyone else know better than him? So now people bring up their horrible relatives. Harry has the Dursleys. ('Look what I've got for relatives' - because Muggles aren't human, so they qualify as 'what' rather than 'who'.) And Dumbles has Aberforth, with some never-quite-explained history with goats. (Why would wizards care about bestiality, if that really is the case? They do every other horrible thing to animals.)

How long did Hagrid's father think his son wasn't a wizard? Was Hagrid a later bloomer than Neville?

We get Hagrid's take on Albus - he gives second chances, will take in anyone, regardless of family background, as long as s/he has magical talent. (What Hagrid doesn't say is that said family members get treated like dirt if they aren't human magicals.)

And finally Harry decides to tackle the egg. Because he can't let Hagrid down. (Harry/Hagrid OTP?)

Comments

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

Ron thinks Percy is trying to slowly poison Crouch so he could take over the department. Like fan theories about Severus and Sirius in OOTP.

As if George and Fred wouldn't do the same!

Ludo is finally conducting a search for the lost employee from his own department. Turns out Bertha visited one relative but disappeared on her way to another's home. And she's not the type to elope (why else would a woman disappear? the sexism).

Why aren't the Aurors, or some other police force, looking for her? Why should her employers be the ones who have to find her?

Oh, and he brought with him countless of supportive letters from parents.

But Hagrid seems to have very little interaction with students, apart from the Trio.

[oryx_leucoryx]

Why aren't the Aurors, or some other police force, looking for her? Why should her employers be the ones who have to find her?

Consistent with a world where the school headmaster is in charge with investigating attempted murders at the school and even in the village near the school, with no intervention of law enforcement (even when there are Aurors posted in the village).

But Hagrid seems to have very little interaction with students, apart from the Trio.

In PS it seems he had some past interaction with Charlie. Also claimed to have spent much of his time getting the twins out of the forest. So it seems the support letters came from the rule breakers and animal lovers who had attended the school in previous decades.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Hagrid's mother is the giantess Fridwulfa - true

It's true, but it shouldn't be relevant to Hagrid's teaching....probably. There's plenty valid reasons to condemn him without smearing him by association, given that part-giant Madame Maxime is a perfectly functional, competent teacher. But then again, maybe she's the shining exception, and giant/human offspring regularly turn out as bad as Hagrid?

(And Ron hopes the giant squid will take care of Viktor. Nice of him. And completely different from Draco wishing Slytherin's monster would kill Hermione.)

I don't think Draco really wanted Hermione dead, he was a kid mouthing off; but what gives his comment its edge is that Slytherin's monster does target Muggleborns, while the giant squid is unlikely to have it in for Krum. However, I couldn't agree more that there's a disturbing pattern of "good" characters wishing death or torture on people who've simply annoyed them.

But really, Viktor treats Hermione nicely, Hermione thinks well of him, they have enough to talk about to have a correspondence that lasts into the following year at least - why does she drop him for Ron of all people?

IKR? I used to hope all of the Trio members would marry out and stop living in each other's pockets.

And Dumbles has Aberforth, with some never-quite-explained history with goats.

Is there a word for the type of character assassination that DD engages in here? He doesn't state directly that his brother is as much of a liability as Hagrid's mother. On the contrary, he pretends to hold up Aberforth as an example that Hagrid should follow, while actually painting him as an illiterate goat shagger. Clearly something happened involving a goat, but the implication that Aberforth can't read must be pure malice. The genius intellectual sneering at his not so bookish brother. Far more convincingly, to me, than his loud praises of Aberforth in the King's Cross scene in DH.

(Why would wizards care about bestiality, if that really is the case? They do every other horrible thing to animals.)

I was going to suggest squick factor, but come to think of it, wizards seem pretty unsquickable.

[oryx_leucoryx]

On Aberforth: Back in the day, before DH came out, HPSpec came up with the theory that back in 1980 or so Voldemort wanted Aberforth's version of the prophecy. Since Aberforth refused to talk Voldie punished him by transfiguring him into a goat in such a way that even his Transfiguration-expert brother couldn't undo - which is why Aberforth couldn't read, though he could still go about the business of butting undesirable customers out of the bar. So in this theory since 1980 or 1981 Aberforth is the goat at The Hog's Head and some other of Albus' supporters took his place as barman. The story in The Prophet was a garbled distortion of these events. Alas, shafted by DH.

There is the simpler version, that Aberforth can't read (much) because he is dyslexic and wizards don't know how to teach dyslexics to read (well, neither did we back in the 1890s) - thanks to Terri for that one.

Or that Albus is simply being a dick about his brother.

Of course there are similarities between Aberforth and Hagrid, both being physical people of low intellectual inclination and some kind of affinity with animals. Makes one wonder if this similarity had anything to do with Albus' (quite minimal, to say the truth) protection of Hagrid.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

That's clever. Someone really ought to write a parallel HP series based on fandom theories. 'Course, the idea that Voldemort turned him into a goat isn't discreditable to Aberforth, but no doubt the Prophet would have found a way to spin involuntary transformation into some sort of unsavory experiment on himself.

IDK, I just get a strong vibe that Albus disrespects his brother for not being an intellectual like himself. Which I resent on Aberforth's behalf. The man's obviously intelligent, reader or no; light years ahead of Hagrid.

True Friends

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

At least Hermione does the decent thing of bending under Harry's pressure - yes, she wants Hagrid back as a terrible teacher, of course she does!

Because real friends will always agree with you!

You can't be friends with someone who has different opinions than you.

What a sad picture of friendship the books have.

The Truth about Aberforth, Part 1

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

Is there a word for the type of character assassination that DD engages in here?

Well, there's not a word, but there are three: normal psychopathic behavior. This is the way psychopaths behave when they're trying to discredit someone who can make them look bad. It's also almost certainly the way Albus treats Aberforth when they're together. I recognize it. I've been subjected to it by my older sister the narcissistic psychopath.

He doesn't state directly that his brother is as much of a liability as Hagrid's mother. On the contrary, he pretends to hold up Aberforth as an example that Hagrid should follow, while actually painting him as an illiterate goat shagger.

Of course. This two-faced behavior, giving with one hand while taking with the other, is typical of psychopaths. By giving Aberforth a "compliment," Albus makes himself look like a good, loving brother. "See? I think so much of my brother that I hold him up as an example to others." Then he slips in the insult. It's not even a direct insult; that would be too obvious. Instead, he implies something nefarious. It's so subtle an attack that it makes me think of a Medici or Borgia assassin in a dark alley, slipping a stiletto between the ribs of someone who thought he was a friend.

Clearly something happened involving a goat, but the implication that Aberforth can't read must be pure malice. The genius intellectual sneering at his not so bookish brother.

BS, or should I say, GS to the first; ITA to the second; the third I'll get to in a minute.

My psychopath sister has called me "brain-damaged" many times because I'm left-handed. Now, let me be clear about a few things:

I test in the top 1% on IQ tests.
I have never been diagnosed with or treated for any kind of learning disability.
I was on the honor roll through most of my schooling, including graduating college with honors. I have a BA; my sister has an AA, which she did not earn with honors.

Our mother and brother also are left-handed, but psycho sis has never called them brain-damaged. Why?

They're no threat to her. Mom is a doormat, and brother is a butt-kisser. They're both afraid of her. Our brother has always openly sucked up to her, including joining her in tag team verbal abuse attacks on me. (Think: Sirius and Remus ganging up on Severus in the Shrieking Shack, only much worse.)

I, on the other hand, am not a butt-kisser. No matter how far she beats me down, I won't give in to her. That makes her crazy. She has to have everyone both groveling at her feet and making excuses for her bad behavior, particularly her criminality and pathological dishonesty. Because I'm not willing to do that, I must be destroyed.

Remember in DH, Aberforth was the only one willing to tell the truth about his brother and their family. He was the only one not willing to rave about how brilliant, loving, and all-around wonderful Albus was. He was also the only one willing to stand up to Albus when Albus wanted to treat Ariana like a piece of luggage and drag her around the countryside under an invisibility cloak while Albus and Gellert subjugated the British Isles.

TBC

The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

PSYCHOPATHS MUST BE IN CONTROL AT ALL TIMES!

That's why they make such great totalitarian dictators. That's also why they lie all the time, even when they don't have to. It's an attempt to control, to bend reality to their will. Don't like the reality you've got? Just make up a new one. Bonus points if you can convince others of your alternate reality.

That need to control is why Albus hated and slandered Aberforth. Like my sister and me, Aberforth was the one person Albus could neither control nor brainwash. So he had to be destroyed, not his body but his reputation. There was no need to kill Aberforth because Albus knew he'd done such a great job of conning the world, nobody would listen to Aberforth anyway. But the hostility was still there, so it had to come out sometimes.

I also don't buy Albus was a genius. IIRC, we have no evidence of this besides his own bragging and the accolades of his subservient friend, Doge. Sure, the chocolate frog card praises him, but where did it get its information, hmmm? And just because he wrote to a lot of famous people doesn't mean they wrote back. It also should be remembered that a man who could alter his school records to cover up what house he was in (I believe Hufflepuff) could also have altered them to make himself look smarter and more creative than he was. After all, who was going to contradict the beloved and brilliant Headmaster of Hogwarts, the Only Person You-Know-Who Feared?

He certainly doesn't act like a brilliant person. He acts remarkably stupid, telling a bunch of lies that can easily be disproven, making plans that fail dramatically, behaving in gratuitously reckless ways, then raving about how wonderful and brilliant he is, and how any failures are the fault of somebody else. The only things he's good at are playing with people's heads and playing them off against each other. That's all typical psychopathic behavior.

I don't think there was a damned thing wrong with Aberforth except that he wouldn't fall down and kiss Albus's butt. We have no evidence he was intellectually inferior except the word of his pathologically dishonest brother. Sure, he quit school before graduating. So did John Lennon. So did Bill Gates. People often quit school for reasons that have nothing to do with doing poorly at their studies. Maybe, like Lennon and Gates, he decided Hogwarts wasn't teaching him what he wanted to know, so he pursued his own course of study. Maybe he was being bullied. Maybe he was tired of being compared to his brother.

Sure, he didn't achieve the adulation Albus did, but he was clearly a more modest person. Some people just don't care about living in the limelight. Narcissists and psychopaths have to constantly be fawned over by others. That's because they're empty inside, and the only way they can relieve that emptiness is by having others try to fill them up. Since Aberforth was clearly neither a narcissist nor a psychopath, he didn't feel that emptiness, so he didn't need the acclaim of others to fill him up.

Far more convincingly, to me, than his loud praises of Aberforth in the King's Cross scene in DH.

Oh, yeah. For once, the mask of goodness slipped, and we got to see the real Albus Dumbledore.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you assume Dumbledore is a psychopath and everything he says is a lie, the books make sense. If you don't, you're forced to torture out these endless, convoluted explanations for his remarks, like like terri_testing is so good at doing.

I prefer to go with Occam's Razor.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

First, you have my sympathies for the situation with your sister. That's got to suck beyond the telling of it.

Second, you make a good case. (Side note: much better than Swythyv's for DD having Aspergers. Her essays are fun, but she should have looked in the DSM-IV, not Wikipedia.) Dumbledore creeps me the fuck out with his personality cult, his spin-doctor lies, and his utterly self-involved emotional life. "Oh poor Harry, I just couldn't add to your troubles by making you prefect before I have you killed". And his personality is consistent by JKR's standards. We could argue endlessly whether OotP!Sirius follows naturally from GoF!Sirius and what that says about his character, or whether analyzing him is pointless because the author just gave him a makeover to suit her plot. But Dumbledore never seems OOC, unless you start with the assumption he's a good and caring man. What he frequently does, though, is strike a false note when trying to express a human sentiment (such as his OotP talk about "love"). So yeah, the more I think about it the more plausible your diagnosis seems.

I don't think there was a damned thing wrong with Aberforth except that he wouldn't fall down and kiss Albus's butt.

QFT.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

It also should be remembered that a man who could alter his school records to cover up what house he was in (I believe Hufflepuff)

Hufflepuff? I have seen good arguments for both Ravenclaw (detachment, pride in his cleverness, analyzing emotions he doesn't actually experience) and Slytherin (how different is he from Tom?) but I can't see Hufflepuff. Who is he loyal to other than himself? Where is the work ethic? While I can see both Umbridge and Fudge as Hufflepuffs gone bad (though Umbridge has connections with Slytherins and Fudge can posture like the best of Gryffindor) I can't see the Twinkly One as such.

I've said it before, and I'll say it again: If you assume Dumbledore is a psychopath and everything he says is a lie, the books make sense. If you don't, you're forced to torture out these endless, convoluted explanations for his remarks, like like terri_testing is so good at doing.

We tried listing all his canonically demonstrated and suspected lies once here. We may have missed a few, but yes, the list got rather longish.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

So yeah, the more I think about it the more plausible your diagnosis seems.

And what, pray tell, may we then infer about the psychological profile of the character's creator, since said creator presents said character as the epitome of ethics and heroics? ;-)

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[sweettalkeress.livejournal.com]

"Dumbledore creeps me the fuck out with his personality cult, his spin-doctor lies, and his utterly self-involved emotional life."

So I've recently got ahold of the newest generation of Pokemon games (this'll all be in an essay sometime in the future, hint hint) and although I haven't actually played them yet, the main villain (from my admittedly limited understanding) seems to be very similar to Dumbledore- in that he spends most of his time pretending to be benevolent and well-meaning, all while plotting world domination and raising a hapless child to be a sacrificial lamb. And you know what, the fandom HATES this guy because he's just so evil! Take that as you will.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Dumbles is loved by many because they buy his benevolent front and are convinced that whatever manipulation and lying he engages in is only done for noble causes (such as saving Harry from being expelled).

Pratchett's Lord Vetinari is openly (to the reader, and to protagonists such as Sam Vimes and Moist von Lipwig) bastardly yet still loved by fans. I think it's because he does appear to have limits and he comes across as sincere when he says it is all for the sake of the city. I doubt anyone ever said Vetinari is no different from Reacher Gilt or any of the other manipulative villains.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Vetinari also never claims to be the pinnacle of morality and righteousness. He may be a bastard at times, but he's not a hypocritical manipulator. He's a pragmatist. I think he and Snape might see eye to eye on a few things. And he does demonstrate an ability to genuinely care about at least one other living creature (Whuffles), which is more than I can say for Dumbles.

(Now I need Discworld/HP crossover fic. Sigh.)

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Hermione is too sensible to bother with straightening her hair on a regular basis.

There's no need for her to be pretty yet, not while Ron's not ready for her. A couple of years yet before then, but that's okay; Rowling will pretty Hermione up, have men wolf-whistling at her, when that time comes; nothing but the best for her boys!

Hermione thinks views of giants are 'just' prejudice, and with that she proves how naive she is, just like about the elf issue.

YES! Mind you, that's also appropriate for a lot of 'do-gooders' in the real world. They don't want to admit any facts that might threaten their pre-set notions. Giants might be considered to be brutes because ... *gasp* ... they ARE!

I'm not with Hermione on this one. *gasp*

At least Hermione does the decent thing of bending under Harry's pressure - yes, she wants Hagrid back as a terrible teacher, of course she does!

That's in book 5, isn't it? I was going to bring it up as an example of the poor girl allowing her deep romantic love for Harry to sway her being chastised by Harry for not supporting him re Hagrid. Or does it happen here in GoF too?

Hermione/Ron is all about hormones, no substance.

Of course!

(And we don't even know there's a smell of Amortentia to it. Maybe Hermione was embarrassed about something completely unrelated to the Gryffindor.)

Harry/Hagrid OTP?

*sighs*

*shakes head*

Oryx ...

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Vetinari doesn't mess with children's lives either. And there are tangible changes to the better in the city from his policies.

The people he manipulates are either criminals with useful talents who get their redemption through his 'angel' program, talented but unwittingly too dangerous to leave at large (Leonard) or talented but in need for direction (Sam). Severus would have flourished under Vetinai's care. In my imagined cross-over Severus befriends Sam. (Heck, wizards are the only people Sam doesn't hate - they don't add to his paperwork; but he won't want magic to solve crimes, it's unreliable.)

[oryx_leucoryx]

YES! Mind you, that's also appropriate for a lot of 'do-gooders' in the real world. They don't want to admit any facts that might threaten their pre-set notions. Giants might be considered to be brutes because ... *gasp* ... they ARE!

It's actually more complex than that. Because the question is to what degree giants are inherently brutes and to what degree the living conditions wizards forced on them made them so. And self-fulfilling descriptions. And the same goes for assorted RL human populations and groups of all sorts. Both the 'it's just prejudice' and 'well, that's how they really act' are oversimplifications.

That's in book 5, isn't it? I was going to bring it up as an example of the poor girl allowing her deep romantic love for Harry to sway her being chastised by Harry for not supporting him re Hagrid. Or does it happen here in GoF too?

In this very chapter.

*sighs*

*shakes head*

Oryx ...

I must say poking fun at shipping arguments is not as funny after the Yule Ball.

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

Both the 'it's just prejudice' and 'well, that's how they really act' are oversimplifications.

That makes sense. What's infuriating is when the do-gooders refuse to even consider straying from their (over-simplified) end of the spectrum.

I must say poking fun at shipping arguments is not as funny after the Yule Ball.

Because, once (a) Harry realised that Hermione was pretty and the girl for him, and (b) Ron showed what a lout he was, bringing her to tears, it became obvious that H/Hr was the way to go?

Actually, seriously, don't want to be thick, but why do you say that? Hermione's "next time ask me first!" solidifying R/Hr in your mind, deciding you on how things were going to end up? The Yule Ball was the point where you felt things were obvious on the shipping front?

[oryx_leucoryx]

Actually, seriously, don't want to be thick, but why do you say that? Hermione's "next time ask me first!" solidifying R/Hr in your mind, deciding you on how things were going to end up? The Yule Ball was the point where you felt things were obvious on the shipping front?

When I read the series initially I didn't care who ended up with whom. Shipping didn't matter to me, though even before I read a single Potter book I knew it was an issue in fandom because it was spilling over to some other fandom I was active in. I was surprised that even after HBP there were people who believed anything other than canon ships would happen in canon (which is not the same as thinking those were the best pairings possible for the characters in question, just that it seemed weird to expect Rowling to change at that point).

However in this particular read I was being funny about the sort of things people used as justifications for pairings - whether seriously, as a joke or as an excuse for fanfic. And after the anger and fighting and unpleasantness around the Yule Ball I just don't feel as much in the mood for this kind of hilarity. Ron is now seriously jealous, Viktor is seriously confused and I'm not sure whether Hermione is really into Viktor or just using him against Ron or what.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

Speaking of said author and the character she'd most like to meet or have dinner with, or something, I wonder if I am the only one in the world who dreads the new Pottermore (http://www.pottermore.com) site, whatever it will be. When I read the first gleeful speculation about Pottermore, I became profoundly depressed. Why can't Rowling just let the f'ing thing die, already?

If it's a fan site, well, the joke's on those devoted fans who've built their own sites for years, I guess. This one will be official.

If it's the encyclopedia, I fear the worst, frankly.

If it's an RPG, count me in for starting a Goblin rebellion.

But, if the purported screenshots (http://www.mediabistro.com/galleycat/facebook-page-uploaded-three-possible-screenshots-from-j-k-rowlings-pottermore-website_b32558) are correct, it's seems like just another way to get money out of the franchise. It makes me sad.

There are cynical remarks in the article below, not linked because NPR is weird about linking:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2011/06/17/137245987/quoth-the-rowling-pottermore

[madderbrad.livejournal.com]

I was surprised that even after HBP there were people who believed anything other than canon ships would happen in canon (which is not the same as thinking those were the best pairings possible for the characters in question, just that it seemed weird to expect Rowling to change at that point).

If it wasn't for Rowling's self-pandering interview the day after HBP was published, wherein she congratulated herself for the OBHWF relationships, I might have been hoping for a change with the final book. It was still quite possible - Harry had broken up with Ginny, Ron and Hermione wind up at the end of HBP as 'friends again'. But the meta-information we had from Rowling meant that it was either going to be OBHWF or she was deliberately lying to her fans. In interviews. Which is a whole lot worse than the cheats she got away with in DH.

And after the anger and fighting and unpleasantness around the Yule Ball I just don't feel as much in the mood for this kind of hilarity.

Gotcha. I felt just like that with HBP. I knew we were supposed to see all the fighting and jealousy as 'good', Hermione and Ron both 'using' third-parties to make the other jealous, killer canaries, etc, but I just couldn't do it.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[oryx_leucoryx]

Well, anything from Rowling is going to require tons of new fanwank to fit with existing canon because I doubt she suddenly improved her ability to maintain consistency. I find it likely many of us here will ignore it except to poke even more fun at her.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Dumbles is loved by many because they buy his benevolent front and are convinced that whatever manipulation and lying he engages in is only done for noble causes (such as saving Harry from being expelled).

Dumbledore is on the side of good if you define "good" (as the books pretty much do) as "getting rid of Voldemort" with a side order of "being pro-muggleborn". That doesn't automatically make him a good person. I was just looking at the HP Network's Dumbledore thread (http://www.thehpn.com/index.php?option=com_smf&Itemid=26&topic=14576.0), and the DD fans are saying that he was the general, the plot compelled him to make tough decisions etc. Granted, but he made them with maximum doucheyness.

Also, what condwiramurs said below. Dumbledore would be a lot more tolerable as a cold, detached bastard who didn't pretend to be anything else. /end rant

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[majorjune.livejournal.com]

When I read the first gleeful speculation about Pottermore, I became profoundly depressed. Why can't Rowling just let the f'ing thing die, already?

Two reasons: money, and I suspect that she's come to the realization that she's never again going to have the success as an author as she did with the Potter series. Hell, where's the new book she's claimed to be working on? She doesn't even crank out short stories for magazines! :-)

If it's a fan site, well, the joke's on those devoted fans who've built their own sites for years, I guess. This one will be official.

If it's the encyclopedia, I fear the worst, frankly.

If it's an RPG, count me in for starting a Goblin rebellion.

I read that's it's supposed to be a "social networking site", with games, fan fiction (?????), and the ability to buy the Potter books in e-read format.

I suppose that it may allow fans to post fiction for free (but since there are so many existing fan fiction sites, why bother?), but I suspect all the other functions will require a fee of some sort, especially since WB's involved in it, too.

Re: The Truth about Aberforth, Part 2

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

Yes, more mental exertions to make canon work, more selective shutdowns of critical perspectives... I guess that's not really a depressing prospect. What else do people have to do with their time, and probably money, than worship at the altar of Rowling?

It reminds me of Dumbledore, though. Just when I thought the tiresome pedant was really and truly dead, he comes back to life to explain it all once again in the face of incredulity and disgust, and assert that, just because he says so, the pieces really do fit. He's especially careful to note his overwhelming cleverness, just in case I didn't properly appreciate it and doubted him. Huzzah, he's universally acclaimed as the most amazing wizard ever!

I was actually serious about the goblin rebellion thing. But, I don't want to waste my time on what is essentially a waste of time, in the end.