OOTP Chapter Sixteen: "In the Hog's Head"

[for-diddled.livejournal.com]

 

* So what exactly does Vanishing an animal do? Send
it to another dimension? Send it into oblivion? Because isn’t the latter
effectively killing it (more so, in fact, because it wouldn’t get to go to
whatever passes for an Afterlife in the Potterverse)? I wonder how many
students would be happy with their Vanishing lessons if they knew that they
were actually killing kittens?

* Ron totally refusing to back Hermione up over unofficial
DADA lessons. What a perfect match those two make.

* Oh no wait, Ron was just waiting to be sure Harry
would blow up. Odd, I’d have thought that the image of an angry young man whose
friends are feared of contradicting him would have seemed more likely to apply
to Tom Riddle that to anybody else.

* It’s actually rather easy to do stuff grown
wizards can’t in the HP universe. You just have to be on good terms with the
author, and you can do anything.

* The whole Viktor/Hermione thing is a bit squicky,
really. So an eighteen-year-old wants to go out with a fourteen-year-old, and
nobody seems to think that there’s anything wrong with that (except for Ron,
who is (a) jealous and (b) doesn’t object to it on grounds of age)?

* Also, what is it that first attracted Viktor to
Hermione? He didn’t know her well enough before asking her to the Yule Ball for
it to be her personality, and Hermione wasn’t yet pretty enough for it to be
her good looks.

* Once again, Hermione seems terrified of Harry.
Perhaps she’s just worried that Harry’s overwhelming love might prove too much
for an ordinary person such as her to handle.

* I’d have thought that after Azkaban, living in a
large, stately house would be quite nice. Apparently though Sirius is feeling
cooped-up and reckless. Because a reckless person could totally carry out the
first-ever escape from Azkaban. Totally.

* Hermione stutters when she says “Voldemort” again,
even though she has no reason to. About the only reason I can think of is that
JKR kept forgetting she was supposed to be Muggle-born, and so had her acting
like a Pureblood instead.

* Also, remember when we thought that there was some
proper reason for not saying Voldemort’s name, and Dumbledore seemed really
cool and badass for saying it anyway? *sigh* How I miss those days… :(

* Hermione says that Sirius won’t be free until “the
fools” “accept that Dumbledore’s been telling the truth all along”, as if
Dumbledore’s word ought to be enough for anybody. This doesn’t seem like a
particularly open-minded and enquiring position to take, although I suppose
that Hermione’s open-mindedness has always been something of an informed
attribute.

* Harry’s barely keeping up with his homework,
because he always has to have some problem to angst about. Ron’s doing even
worse, because no matter how bad Harry is, JKR can’t have Ron doing better than
the hero. Hermione’s doing fine, because she’s a total Mary Sue who does fine
at everything.

* Hermione dismisses Harry’s concerns about Umbridge
spying on them on the grounds that “Umbridge is shorter than that woman”.
Because it’s not like Umbridge could have any informants. Or like she could
have taken some sort of potion to make herself look like somebody else. Nope.
No chance of that at all.

* Hermione’s faith that they’ll all be safe because
they won’t be breaking any rules is rather touchingly naïve. Given what they
know of the wizarding attitude to justice, however, it’s also pretty stupid.

* So is the barman who “looked vaguely familiar to
Harry” supposed to be Aberforth, then? If so, this would be one of the few
examples of continuity between DH and the previous Harry Potter books. I suppose the smell of goats is also meant to
be a clue.

* Hermione “snarls” at Ron when he suggests ordering
a Firewhiskey. Not that her constant sneering, snarling and assorted put-downs
will stop Ron from fancying her. Treat ’em mean, keep ’em keen, I suppose.

* Harry doesn’t recognise half the people coming in,
even the ones he plays against in Quidditch matches. I suppose this is part of
JKR’s desire to make the reader learn everything as Harry does, even though by
this stage she could introduce everybody as if Harry already knew them (“Following
Ginny came John Smith, a nondescript Hufflepuff in fourth year”) without
anybody batting an eyelid.

* I think the red-haired girl is Marietta, yes? In
which case, her reluctance to come is clearly meant to be foreshadowing of her
betrayal. Because it’s not like anybody could change their minds about the idea,
and become less enthusiastic as time went on; any traitor would have to have to
be against it from the start.

* What has Lord Voldemort done to warrant such a
reaction to the mere mention of his name? Going around murdering people is bad,
but not enough to make people shriek every time somebody mentions you.
Especially since mainstream wizarding society seems fine with the idea of
sending people to rot in a castle full of depression-causing monsters without
even a trial, which is arguably worse.

* “‘Well, Dumbledore believes it—’ Hermione began.”
Again, Hermione, that isn’t a good enough reason. A supposedly
independent-minded girl should know that.

* Also: yay Zach Smith! Nice to see somebody
questioning DD’s version of events. A pity his author doesn’t appreciate him
for it.

* Didn’t Harry produce a Patronus at a Quidditch
match in his third year? So why is the fact that he can such a big surprise to
everybody?

* And Harry, just because two people you’re met use
the phrase “Corporeal Patronus”, that doesn’t mean they’re related.

* Harry shows a rare moment of humility and self-knowledge
when he says that he only succeeded because he was helped out by others.

* Hermione dismisses the possibility of Heliopaths
existing, even though at age eleven she found out that magic, goblins, giants
and all manner of other “impossible” things existed. A pity nobody ever points
this out to her, really.

* “But I also think… that we all ought to agree not
to shout about what we’re doing. So if you sign, you agree not to tell Umbridge
or anybody what we’re up to.” And to have your face disfigured for the rest of
your life if you do, but we won’t bother telling you that.

* Seriously, that “protection” is the worst ever. It
doesn’t warn you when you’ve been betrayed, it doesn’t stop anybody betraying
you in the first place, and none of the DA members know about it, so it’s not
going to have any sort of deterrent effect.

* Ginny and Michael first met at the Yule Ball. I
hope when Neville asked her to go with him he meant in a “just friends” sense,
rather than as a date, because otherwise that can’t have been a fun night for
him.

* Ron seems very worked-up about Ginny’s new
boyfriend. Ron/Ginny OTP?

* Of course, this Michael/Ginny/Ron love-triangle
won’t go anywhere, so Hermione quickly moves to more plot-relevant stuff, like
Harry/Cho.

Comments

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Snape's treatment of traitor to Lily, Pettigrew is massively inconsistent with everything she reveals in DH.

Yup. The author feels Pettigrew is beneath contempt, therefore so do the characters. It's as if Snape only wanted revenge when he believed the traitor was his old enemy Sirius, who he already hated with a passion. Realizing it was just Wormtail doing what Wormtails do, then meh, the guy's not worth wasting a bullet on.

It would also explain why Snape's fury with Sirius stemmed during PoA only from HIS own past treatment at Black's hands - he didn't show ANY outrage or hate because of Sirius' supposed betrayal and subsequent death of Lily.

From the subtle hints as to Snape's state of mind ("looking suddenly quite deranged", "there was a mad glint in Snape's eyes", "He seemed beyond reason" etc [Ch. 18]), he seems to be showing his hate clearly enough, just not voicing his reasons. Though it is an obvious plot convenience, I think it's IC for Snape not to mention Lily out loud. He's just barely holding his emotions in check as is. Speaking of his hidden motive would probably send him over the edge.

None of which makes Snape/Lily less of a pile of suck, obv. Fans predicted onesided Snape->Lily from way back; if JKR had wanted to astonish she could have written Snape and Lily as real friends, a counterpart to James and Sirius. Instead it's "Girl briefly takes pity on boy from wrong side of the tracks = DEATHLESS ROMANCE (but only on his part)". /pet peeve

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Yes, I think the Shack scene in PoA is one of the better scenes (PoA was the high point, sigh), because reading it with the notion of *some* kind of bond between Severus and Lily just adds another layer that actually fits quite well. And I agree that he wouldn't say anything about her out loud - that's a rather consistent aspect of his characterization, I think. He keeps things that are important to him close to the vest, both tactically and just because that's how he is. (This also makes me suspect that some of the Marauders stuff may not be *quite* so ultra important to him now, since he's willing to be public about it, and serves more as a convenient bit of motivation and characterization for the role he plays to Voldie.) I was one of the ones who walked away from PoA with a mysterious Snape/Lily bump on my head from an invisible clue by four, and I think a lot of it came from the fact that, for all his willingness to rant about James and co in that book, Severus never says a single thing about Lily in Harry's hearing, ever.

I wish it had been done believably. On aesthetic grounds I rather like the theory (I think Swythyv's? Or Jodel's?) that they became friends in fifth or sixth year, but that really means scrapping a lot of canon, and the canon that is there could still work if it had been handled better, arg.

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

He keeps things that are important to him close to the vest, both tactically and just because that's how he is.

Exactly. You put it better than I could.

(This also makes me suspect that some of the Marauders stuff may not be *quite* so ultra important to him now, since he's willing to be public about it, and serves more as a convenient bit of motivation and characterization for the role he plays to Voldie.)

*nod* He may not be over the Marauders, but I also doubt he's kept the grudge at white heat for fifteen years. The current hostility between him and Sirius + Lupin seems equally due to their grudge against him; Sirius apparently will never forgive Snape for being their victim.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Gah, I had long reply typed up and LJ ate it. A warning to write shorter posts I suppose, lol.

Basically: yes, exactly (and you put it so well about Sirius not forgiving him for being their victim). He doesn't think James and co. are the best thing since sliced bread, and probably has a few tender spots, but he can distance himself from it in a way he can't wrt Lily. The one exception I would see would probably be the so-called 'Prank,' because I would find it believable for him to be quite traumatized by that, in the clinical sense. So while I don't think he looks down on Lupin for being a werewolf, I think being near Lupin could make him somewhat uncomfortable in any situation, even aside from fears of him luring Harry out and the passive-aggressive games over the potion. And hearing Sirius in the shack claim he deserved it would turn any lingering hurt (hell, I have lingering hurt from much lesser things done to me by bullies in middle school, but I don't think about it every day) into a brand-new reason to be angry.

Also, this leads me to see his comparisons of Harry to James not as spontaneous manifestations of animosity, but deliberate attempts to point out to Harry where being like James (in Severus' perception) is not a good idea. In a very roundabout way - which Harry at first can't pick up on because of how he was raised, and later doesn't try - you could even see it as Severus trying to make clear he expects Harry to be a better man than his father. But, due to the war situation/scar-o-vision and Severus' natural shying away from being, ah, warm and fuzzy, it's not put in positive, easy to accept terms. Really, a lot of the Severus/Harry conflict I think originally stems from a clash between Severus' natural disposition and Harry's socialization to associate criticism with personal dislike; much of the other stuff early on could have been taken care of fairly easily without that barrier. (And thence my secret love of mentor!Snape fic. Except so much of it is sooo bad.) But the war actually puts Severus in a position where it doubtlessly seems far safer to keep that conflict going than try to get past it and then explain that to Voldie. :( One of JKR's better bits of set-up.

I have to say, as someone who initially liked Sirius, I'm still taken aback at the level of his hatred for Snape - I can't quite see a reason why he would feel so strongly, at least not without reading Sirius as *extremely* entitled. Even with the effects of Azkaban, the description of them as equally enraged at each other in the shack scene really makes me go o_O once you take into account the fact Severus right then still thinks Sirius betrayed Lily to hear death. Maybe the canine side is really just strong in him and he has a visceral reaction to anyone definitely marked as "outside the pack"?? *flounders*

[night-axe.livejournal.com]

Also, this leads me to see his comparisons of Harry to James not as spontaneous manifestations of animosity, but deliberate attempts to point out to Harry where being like James (in Severus' perception) is not a good idea.

I think you're probably right. Harry spends most of canon convinced that Snape, like a grownup Malfoy, is never happier than when Harry's in trouble. So when Snape tells him he's just like his "exceedingly arrogant", rules-ignoring father, he assumes Snape is coming clean about why he hates Harry and wants him expelled. Although that's a natural assumption under the circs. As you say, if Snape wanted to be taken seriously when telling a teenage boy for his own good not to emulate his jerkass father, he needed to work on his tact.

Really, a lot of the Severus/Harry conflict I think originally stems from a clash between Severus' natural disposition and Harry's socialization to associate criticism with personal dislike; much of the other stuff early on could have been taken care of fairly easily without that barrier.

Agreed. The animosity between them is one thing the author handled quite well. They're locked in their holding patterns and talk past each other, until finally there's a glimmer of hope in the Occlumency lessons and then, wham! it's worse than ever.

I have to say, as someone who initially liked Sirius, I'm still taken aback at the level of his hatred for Snape

Several possible motives, as I see it. One is the pack loyalty you mentioned. Snape's not just an outsider, he's someone James had it in for. Sirius adored James, who despised Slytherins and Dark Arts fans like, oh, Sirius' entire family. Snape stood for everything Sirius had to reject. He could take out his painful mixed feelings about his mother and brother on the little oik, and every time he attacked Snape he was proving how much he's not that kind of Black. Besides, he's much more emotional than James. For James, I think, tormenting Snape was just a job. Sirius needed to make it personal.

[condwiramurs.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I can see why Harry thinks that way about Snape, especially at first. (The threats of having him expelled just make me laugh, though - in hindsight, knowing about his vow to keep the kid safe, there's no way that he actually means them. It's just blowing off steam - though obviously Harry couldn't know that at the time - and trying to make an impression on the kid. But when he does have an opportunity, like with Fudge in PoA, he's all 'the children were bewitched!' Big ol' softie. ;) )

'Talking past each other' is a good way of putting it. And the Occlumency lessons - oh yes. And then in HBP of course things really went to hell. Minus the lack of an explicit scene of resolution between them (imho I don't think we really get it - having it happen offscreen in Harry's head doesn't make it emotionally true for me), I think the Harry/Snape dynamic is one of the better parts of the series, and something JKR managed to keep fairly consistent, unlike a lot of other things. It's that sort of horrible emotional trainwreck where you can't look away, because of how neatly all the pieces collide.

Agreed about Sirius's need to make it personal; that does help explain it a little. He is a very passionate person - rather like Snape himself, but without the benefit of Occlumency. And then, being so unambiguous about his rejection of everything about Snape that could be associated with his family keeps James' attention off of those connections, and thus removes any potential threat to the friendship from that direction. Later, Harry takes James' place in this whole deal, and since obviously Snape is not warm and fuzzy with Harry, there's the addition of wanting to protect Harry from the 'evil git.'

I rather wonder what his relationship with his brother was like. I don't imagine it was all that pretty, at least not after he went away to Hogwarts, but given the vehemence of his need to reject anything associated with his family I wouldn't be surprised if there was a buried part of him that wanted connection with him too.