What was known about Quirrell's death and Tom's status in PS?

[terri-testing.livejournal.com]

Lynn_waterfall, in an exchange we were having below in the spork of GoF 36, assumed that Fudge thought that Harry had said, back at the end of book one, that Voldemort was dead but somehow not completely dead.

But what Harry actually knew was that Voldemort, riding the back of Quirrell's head, said that he was, "Mere shadow and vapor... I have form only when I can share another's body... but there have have always been those willing to let me into their hearts and minds.... Unicorn blood has strengthened me, these past weeks... and once I have the Elixir of Life, I will be able to create a body of my own."

Now, we readers, being logical, might infer that the once-a-normal-living-human Voldemort, who is now "shadow and vapor... [without] a body of [his] own" might be legally classed as "dead but not as gone as we might wish."

A) Did Harry ever work that out? and

B) Did he ever communicate that to others? To anyone?

WE all know that Harry faced a dead Voldemort possessing his living servant Quirrell in an attempt to secure the Philosopher's Stone and kill Harry.

And we know that everyone in Hogwarts (and therefore, all their relatives at the Ministry) know that SOMETHING happened down there. See the congratulatory sweets by Harry's bedside.

But as oryx points out, in OotP only Neville seemed quite sure that the incident involved "the Sorcerous Stone".

What was "known" by the rest of the WW?

The only facts we know Twinkles probably could not have hidden were: Quirrell's death (or at least disappearance), and the destruction/disappearance of the Philosopher's Stone, leading eventually to the Flamel's deaths of old age.

Does everyone/anyone but US even know these two incidents were connected? That Quirrel died in attempting to steal the Stone? And is it generally known that Quirrell was the Dark Lord's agent in that attempt (Severus's alibi to Bellatrix--which presumably is the same as he gave Riddle--was that Snape had never known that), much less physically possessed by him?

And among those who know that Quirrell was physically possessed--would they have any reason to assume that the Dark Lord had been discorporate himself when he took Quirrel over?

Tom had previously possessed animals/humans while retaining control of his own body--was this known?


Final question: when Tommy abandoned Quirinus's dying body, did Quirrell's head restore itself to normal? Or did Albus show everyone a corpse with Lord V on the back or his head?

Comments

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Oh, that's right. The movies made more of an effort to make him look heroic. In the book, it's ambiguous what happens to Quirrell- I think Dumbles says he arrives in time to pull Quirrell off Harry, so...er, then what? Did he kill Quirrell? O.o

[oryx_leucoryx]

I thought Quirrell died from the injuries he suffered from the moment he touched Harry until Tom left him (at which time the Lily-effect should have stopped) - he was already dying when Albus pulled him off. But the only other alternative is that Albus killed him.

[detritius.livejournal.com]

While making Harry more heroic might have been one of the reasons the moviemakers made the change (and Harry certainly does need the help), I think they also may have done it to keep the rating down. Having a villain turn to stone is acceptably cartoony, and probably a lot more appropriate for the younger audience the earlier films were marketed to than showing Harry burning Quirrel's face and hands (I believe the book describes his skin blistering from the heat). Depictions of more realistic injuries tend to cause visceral negative reactions, especially for kids, so that may be part of the reason they chose to have him crumble to dust rather than sticking more closely to the book.

[borg-princess.livejournal.com]

Oh, interesting theory. I do think you've hit the nail on the head. It is a lot easier for little kids to roll with villains turning to stone and crumbling than yeah, showing graphic images of his skin being scorched and developing blisters and all. *wince*

I do wonder why they went that route with Voldy and Bella, though- the cartoony 'deaths' were a bit ridic. And at that stage, they showed people dying and being tortured, so hmm.

[sharaz-jek.livejournal.com]

Probably because it was the "good guys" doing it - if they left bodies behind, the fact that they were killing people would feel a lot more real.

[mmmarcusz.livejournal.com]

I think Voldemort abandoned his body and so Quirrell couldn't survive after that. Although it is fun to think that Dumbledore murdered him and covered it up. He probably arranged for Crouch jr to be desouled too, and told the centaurs where to find Umbridge.

[nx74defiant.livejournal.com]

You know I'm starting to get the idea you don't like Dumbledore.

:)

[the-bitter-word.livejournal.com]

To me, the question is, what did Dumbledore have against Lupin and Moody? (I know what he had against Snape - he was disgusted by him.) Each year, he welcomed a new DADA teacher while suspecting the position was cursed. Did he divulge the curse's existence to each year's fresh recruit? I'm sure he didn't think he was culpable for their downfalls, since the curse seemed to act on an aspect of the victim's personality or experience and was originally cast by Voldemort. Still, if I sell you a car I know will break down in a year, even if the mechanism of breakdown isn't the result of my direct actions, I might be found responsible for your damages, at least partially. If I knowingly take advantage of your character flaw to get you to do my bidding, against your own interests, I am probably guilty of some kind of fraud.

Or maybe, per Harry, the DADA teachers included those Dumbledore only killed because he had to -- serially, at that.

Dumbledore says of Quirrell that he was full of "hatred, greed and ambition" at the end of his life. Well, that's OK, then! He deserved a horrible death! (Not that Harry deserved to die, either, but still... what's this about Dumbledore seeing the best in people?) I didn't see a lot of hatred, greed and ambition in Quirrell as depicted, actually. In the end, I mostly saw arrogance mixed with a great deal of fear.

[oneandthetruth.livejournal.com]

To me, the question is, what did Dumbledore have against Lupin and Moody? Or maybe, per Harry, the DADA teachers included those Dumbledore only killed because he had to -- serially, at that.

Has anybody else noticed Dumbledore likes to take out any wizard strong enough to offer him competition for the title of "Biggest Badass in Britain"? (No mere witch can compete, of course, so they don't have to be killed or disabled.) I'm convinced the reason he set Severus up to die with the Elder Wand was because he knew that with Voldemort dead, Snape would be the most powerful wizard in the country. Worse yet, he had decent morals! He believed in sick things like keeping promises and protecting vulnerable kids rather than shoving them into the front lines. If Snape had lived long enough, he might have given St. Albus's reputation a run for its money. We can't have that!

I love the idea of Dumbledore the serial killer.

I know what he had against Snape - he was disgusted by him. Dumbledore says of Quirrell that he was full of "hatred, greed and ambition" at the end of his life. Well, that's OK, then! He deserved a horrible death! (Not that Harry deserved to die, either, but still... what's this about Dumbledore seeing the best in people?)

I think what he really sees is a reflection of himself. No one is more disgusting, hateful, greedy, or ambitious than Scumbledore. In the true fashion of narcissists and psychopaths, the entire rest of the world is nothing but a reflection of his own internal world.

I didn't see a lot of hatred, greed and ambition in Quirrell as depicted, actually. In the end, I mostly saw arrogance mixed with a great deal of fear.

And since he was possessed by Voldemort, we don't even know how much of that was Quirrell himself, and how much was his evil conjoined twin. If Harry's bad behavior can be excused by saying, "It's not his fault. It's the Voldiechip in his head," surely Quirrell deserves to use that excuse even more.